Dec. 17, 2021

#58: Money, and other dirty words. With Dr Sam Burke

#58: Money, and other dirty words. With Dr Sam Burke
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Season 1

Why does it sting so much when a client accuses us of ‘just being in it for the money”. I think it hurts because for most of us money is really quite low on the list of what drives us, so much so that we often actively avoid talking about it, especially in terms of our own earnings, like it’s a taboo subject. But the things is - it IS also about the money. For most of us, at some point in our adult life, it’s very likely that you’ll find yourself thinking: "Hey, I could really do with a little bit more money!' 

So how do we earn that little bit more money? How do we get over the erroneous belief that ‘there’s just no money in vet’?

Our guest for this episode is Dr Sam Burke. Sam is a practicing vet, former practice owner, investor and entrepreneur. He’s also a former colleague and a good friend, and one of the most-money wise people I know. If I have a money question a conversation with Sam is usually my first stop. So we thought we’d have one of those conversations on the air and share it with you to see if we can help change ‘money’ from a dirty word into just another word that we are comfortable talking about and comfortable generating. 

Oh, and if you're curious about Sam's shoes, check it out at Tarkine.com

 

Go to thevetvault.com for show notes and to check out our guests’ favourite books, podcasts and everything else we talk about in the show.

If you want to lift your clinical game, go to vvn.supercast.com for a free 2-week trial of our short and sharp high-value clinical podcasts.

We love to hear from you. If you have a question for us or you’d like to give us some feedback please leave us a voice message by going to our episode page on anchor and hitting the record button, via email at thevetvaultpodcast@gmail.com, or just catch up with us on Instagram. 

And if you like what you heard then please share the love by clicking on the share button wherever you’re listening and sending a link to someone who you know will enjoy listening.

 

 

 

Which is the best podcast.I'm just saying, mate because there's no y, the best podcast night.Look, obviously, I love you guys, but look that do you get to say that brand?Get that ball red ball.Oh, wow.
Thanks man.I'm Gerardo Pollard.I'm Hubert his chair.And this is the bait.Frog Why does it stink so much when a client accuses us of just being in it for the money?
I think it hits because for most of us money is really quite low on the list of what drives us so much.So that we often actively avoid talking about it in terms of our own earnings.Like it's a bit of a taboo subject but the thing is it is also about the money.
We might be bright-eyed and fill in traffic when we set out on our Veterinary Journey.But for most of us at some point in your adult life, it's very Likely that you'll find yourself thinking, hey, I could really do with a little bit more money.Like the old joke goes money, won't buy you happiness, but it's much nicer to cried Mercedes than on a bicycle.
So how do we learn that a little bit more money or a lot more?How do we get over that?Erroneous belief that there's just no money.Invent Our Guest for this episode is dr.Sam Burke.Sam is a practicing vet, former practice owner super Savvy, investor and entrepreneur is So, a former colleague and a good mate, and one of the most money wise people, I know, note that I said, money-wise, not money-driven, or money hungry or any of the negative versions of being someone who thinks about money.
Sam just thinks about money and I strategic and constructive way about how to earn it.How do you invest it?And how to turn it into something?Not to worry about, put it this way.If I have a money, question, a conversation with Sam is usually my first step.
So We thought we'd have one of those conversations on the air and share it with you to see if we can help change money from a dirty word into just another word that we are comfortable talking about and comfortable generating.And on the topic of dirty words, Sam gets a bit excited about this stuff.
So if you're easily offended by the occasional F-bomb then, well I was going to say then maybe skip this one but you really shouldn't skip this one.Please enjoy dr.Hamburg Wait wait, baby boy.
Before we start just one more thing.It's been a big year with many changes for all of us that definitely includes me.Lots of good things, really hard things and lots and lots of growth both in and outside of work, our baby, the clinical podcast series is a year old this month.
I want to thank you for your support and enthusiasm about it.Glad you finding it useful because I sure am.I've changed so many things around how I practice based on what I've learned.I'm doing these clinical episodes, some of it really fundamental number way, way better clinician.
Because of it, not only better but significantly more confident, things like blood gas.I finally get it.Last weekend, I picked up a nasty stomach cancer in this, lovely old dog.Just because of what I saw in the blood gas and then rebuilding, some really basic building blocks like fluid therapy, how I interpret, my lab results, basic surgery, stuff, like better choices around my suture materials or wound care.
All the Way to the high level stuff, like a foolproof plan for complicated dka, or simplified way to understand and Implement blood transfusions better techniques for linear.Foreign body surgery or wrapping my head around sodium abnormalities or all these critically ill shock patients.
I don't want it to Tarrant trumpet but I'm gonna I challenge you to find a more useful continuing education resource.And here's why I say this, I'm famous photographer was once asked what the best camera was that you could buy and his answer was The best camera is the one that you have with you.
That right there is why we do the VIP Ward clinical.As a podcast, you can have the most up-to-date textbook or the most comprehensive.Online course, if you're not using it, it's no good.And I believe that a 20-minute episode that plants all of the new ideas and all of the tips and tricks and updates and everything you need to know about straight into your heels.
While you get on with your life, is the easiest and the most reliable way to polish your knowledge and build your confidence.If you haven't yet, go to VV n dot super cast.com, that's Vivian full of it, felt Network and try it for yourself.
Okay.Back to Sam.Welcome to the red belt, right?Well, thanks for having me on a long time fan.I'm a member of the clinical podcast as you know, and this is that every week, I love it.It's been a long time.
Coming of them's, an old friend, we work together and done all sorts of stuff together.And I've wanted him on the show for a long time and I think the reason is Sammy, it's because you definitely list high on the list of people who I think have done well with vet in terms of success.
And it depends on yourself to find success but for Is for me it looks like work because you like it not because you have to and find ways to be financially secure as a veterinarian and I feel like you smashed it like you spend half your time at home with your kids.
You've got your a new businesses that will talk about that.You're really excited about.You still do your vet work but I know you do it because you love it not because you got to pay the mortgage and to me I'm like it.That's young vet says to me.Who should I be like as a bit?I would say it's because Sam Sam will give you advice, so let's see if we can get some advice.
Well, thanks for that.That was - that was a nice little lead in, right?But I guess for sure, I have it graded moment.But, you know, I did go through many years of a very, very hard work before I could get to that point, you know, and I think that dating is any shortcuts.
Like, if you want to have that, that cruzi kind of Lifestyle, you're going to have to go through some pain before you can achieve that.And I think that that level of sacrifice, You need to go through.Maybe not so many people are willing to go through that level of sacrifices required, you know, but but if you're willing to then there's no reason why you can't do very well out of that, and, and set it up and work on your own terms.
Do you or do you also think that you need to have some degree of mine said, shift.Some people like when I was at Uni almost quit, that's good.S.You when I found out how much I was going to earn because I didn't think I was we had to raise a family on but then I became pretty kind of not obsessed but just just really thought a lot about how could I leverage knowledge in order to make the most out of it, not just being a veterinarian.
For, I don't know.Like is it was there a you think there's a shift that people may need to have like that from gonna come out, just about size.We're going to come out and I'm going to make this work for me and find ways to leverage right.You know and there's you've got to find a way to make it happen because there are opportunities to get it here.
And that the traditional advice you get of just finding a job and putting your head down working, you're working for someone else for ages.I mean, even if that's what you want to do, there are ways to make that system work for Better than just being a standard old employer.You know, this way the value-add and to negotiate and like I'm ever in high school, I used to write essays about how some Russian czars son had hemophilia or some shit, you know.
And, you know, I could still rather they say to that.You know, I spent a lot of time doing that sort of bullshit and not enough time learning about compound interest and savings, and you know, how to, how to negotiate, and how to get ahead financially.And I think there's a there is a mind shift.
I was lucky.I had a dad growing up.Who who is in the concrete used concrete business and he was a ruthless guy who, you know, he's a ruthless guy still with us but he um, you know, he taught me to just you've got to go to make things happen.You got to go after it because they are otherwise you just got to get stomped on your whole life.
So so, yeah, I was lucky.I had that influence in my life, it's the story.It's all about.I just a vague memory of a story of you.On your knees scrubbing, the shower with a toothbrush because of your purse today, I don't want something.What's that about again?When yeah look he's rad.
You know, it's good.That finally you know you didn't let his kids get away with anything you know I remember one time as a kid I was probably eight.I had an apple and I like I didn't want to eat apple.I Chuck in the bin and then my dad found out and lost you shit.You know how long I worked my ass off for that Apple sort of thing, never chucked line on a piece of fruit.
I kind of like that at the moment because like in we had six kids by family and we just ate, we ate whatever it was there because we didn't know will give you a fed.And then Lorelei my eight month old daughter at the moment.She's eating a little like, a little like baby biscuit and she'll spit a bit of it out.
Like oh, no, no, no, get this figured, what the hell?Yeah, that's just like see the fact that work ethic comes from Sam because you talk about people that want to make those initial sacrifices and to be honest, they're not g.I knew I was saying before I knew Sam.
We have a mutual friend that's how we made and and Sam had his clinic in would come back to the story of his business.But he had his clinic in Sydney and I'd hear stories about just made of my friend with the, he's such an idiot because he's got this clinic in Sydney and they just working just working.
They have no fun and we don't like, you know, there was much Judgment of this couple.I didn't even know.I thought it was just insane because there's no work life balance.They just grafting away and then Now now we did pretty well.So we had a plan, like we've all met, you know, those Clinic owners that have owned their Clinic that 30 years and they're bitter as better as fuck.
No.And just none had not nice, people be around and they're over it and having mental breakdowns and yeah, it wasn't going to be UPS like I think I like him.Din 50-something, bet, hospitals around, Sydney, and up the Central Coast to try and find a practice.I had a plan, we set out and we put it into action.
And then once we found the biggest shit hole, All positive as possible to buy.Then it's just a matter of turning this massive shit hole into a good business, who had a plan to get out of my wife will see ya.She did not want to be a career practice owner and a tiny little GP clinic and the northern to the Sydney, you know, she wanted to have a different life than that.
No, there's anything while I enjoyed it while it lasted, but yeah.So, how did you find it like that?The practice like did you, did you go door knocking or something weird?Where is, how do you find a good practice?Like is it word of mouth or is it like gum tree can come to me?
I wish I was I wish I was.I'm dumb traded.My strategy was just to work or get on the Locum circuit, you know.And I hate I didn't really like like mean or anything but I was just the best way to meet people and network specifically Locum Sam too.Did the research we use counting.
Oh yeah.It was that your website your motivation to like, like a defined.Okay.Yeah.Because it's, yeah, what better?Way to find something pretty much anywhere I would work, I would work.And, and my wife was doing say, if she was loved me too, and she was working a ridiculous number of practices.
And then one day I got a phone call from a woman who owned this and she said, I'll can you come work for me?I hear you.Did some work this around at a nearby Clinic.I rocked up and this Clinic was just the biggest shit.Hulk.Like, you know, it was she was having a mental breakdown of some sorts.
Who is in the waiting room, there was holes in the ceiling and there's this big possum that would piss on people that were waiting.You know, I literally saw this possum piss on a woman's foot, you know, we're just waiting that long and I just want was just smiling and walking away, you know, because it was just what was going on.
Shoot.I was doing maybe a couple console today as a Locum there.And I don't know how I was staying afloat, but it was in the best one of the best suburbs, one of those parts of Sydney.Rodney page, very masculine and she was having a mental breakdown.She just checked out and all these other kind of local vets had looked at it to buy it, male walked away because you know, the building inspection I had to build inspection done that Builders like make don't buy this place, this is Adelaide wall.
It's just falling down the stairs.It needs to and everyone just saw it as too hard, too, hard basket.And I saw it as the only place I could ever afford but because we didn't buy the business like the business, she gave us.She, we just bought the land and So, wow.
And so she, she bought the property in that you bought the building and then it just the building came with it and the business and we just paid my, we paid land value for the property.She just like, maybe we paid an extra 40 ground.It was worth to make you happy.And then and she walked away, you know, and she just cut our losses and got out of there and then and that was how we got inside when you when I went to the bank I wasn't going to bank saying hey I need a business line, I was going to bank saying hey I'm going to live here you know this is a residential purchase.
This was a Was irrelevant to that transaction.Yeah, so alright can cook it.I don't wanna go back to the plan.Okay, so what was the plan?The plan was like 5 years financially independent and you had no idea of how much you wanted earn over that time frame or like at the end.
Definitely the idea was, it wasn't necessarily Five-Year Plan.It was tired of actually more of a 10-year plan, but I was thinking.But I'm 39 hours Thinking by the time I'm 40, my wife and I would be nice to check out and move on, you know, and then the backup set up because we were in The biggest tip Zone and nearly it.
Definitely in that Sydney region, were the Avalon is known as The Tick plaques, you know, in Sydney.And so, you know, we're it was a one consult room GP packets, like we're talking about small practice, but during the heart of tick season, we could have 30 something to cases in on any day, right?
I'm so ridiculously high, tech turnover.And yeah, we had a five to ten out of ten year plan, I guess and then we turn it around.And just it went crazy.And after nearly seven years we got out of it.Yeah.
Wow, you know my wife was my hand right, like not sure why my mom is saying this, she wanted to check out and move back to Fremantle and West Australians wanna hang out and have a little last up.You know we were seeing is it's a huge place as you know and one of the very Northern tip of the of this peninsula and nearest friends were good. 45 minutes away to find bets to work for us.
It was kind.Kind of like a Rural clinic, like, in many ways like people used to come Christmas and I'll be like, oh we got from a local way from Sydney.You know.I still have to do things like to get best to work for us.
We would pay for pay the second, they left their hot.We had a guy who was who drove 90 minutes and would say, I was like night, you're good.I won't be working for us.We'll pay you three hours of travel time of day at the standard rate.Well, Because which is it would write back then.So he was, he didn't care.
He was listen to podcast but three hours a day getting paid.And then he'd also get paid for his time at the clinic.So we used to do things like that.And yeah I've got side tracked down.But yeah that was the plan man.Five ten years to actually looks like an anvil on its Avalon beach or something happen on beach.
Yeah it looks amazing out.There is a nice item 8 W backs other.It's very white.They call it the insula peninsula in the sense of like it's wired Australia.Right, you know, there's like just as Liars with Range Rovers bullying in all day long, you know, but after seven years of business, they're like we have less than two van and bad debt, so never use that pay.
Never used one of those things and how I liked it.I liked the idea of a plan because I think a lot of people enter into practice ownership or any business going.Okay, I'm going to start this business and let's see how it goes and I want to make some money and I want, you know, there's no, there's no, it's not like, how much is some money I've spoken to so many of its work, and they're working their work and say, why do you work so much?
And I don't know.Do you need more money?No, I'm fine for money.So why don't you work as well?That's right.And I think I feel like it's the same in every to find.How much do I need?What's my exit Point?How much do I need an attorney?And before I think about selling or buying the next clinical having some sort of a plan, you just wander in and sort of go.
Yeah, we'll see what happens.Look, the main how much money?It just depends waiting while still living in Sydney.I'll need a lot more than I earn a living in Fargo, you know.But I think I think the other day like you need to own your hats app and once the only house outright the freedom that comes with, that is crazy.
I know random mortgage, do whatever the hell you want, you know, and I think we lost the other thing is, like, it's cool.It's what everyone is a business owner.Not everyone has that mindset wants to do it, but I think that, you know, that's should be thinking from a very early age about consistently investing into other things, okay?
You know, like, I think just owning your hearts, it's like a whenever never sell our hacks, I don't know.My wife will ever, let us sell it.You know, the kids are getting that house.So what happens is the to the value of that house is irrelevant for me.My wife, it's kind of a liability, to be honest with you, your own way to live.
It's all about, trying to like even if you don't want to be a practice owner, get Investments you know just it all pretty much, 90% of your pay packet needs to be going into that slick stuff rather than just having, you know, what most people spend their cash on, you know, Mmm, like nice cars that you driving through a creek.
I'm glad you said it because I said, should I give you that?I should have buddies fair to God.I had not had a nice car.I had not asked a Sam and then Alex was having contractions with Lorelei and we were stuck in the Hinterlands around Brisbane and I drove through a submerged Road and my car got stuck and got.
No but anyway There's North Coast kind of like torrential downpours.We're just got exactly right.That's it.Like, robe was fine an hour later.Road was high and around.Yeah, but you, you said something before, right?
About paying about business purchasing business and so forth.I was working a lot of people about who are looking to get into business and it's like, it's, it's not just the pain of the work, but it's also the Own and sometimes when they know the unknowns they get their questions so they didn't really realize that it's actually just they don't have the knowledge yet but if they got the knowledge of what they might need to do a coach a business coach or someone who's done before that it comes through the process that actually it's doable because someone else has done it before, right?
Like was the the information getting the information something that was helpful for you, I guess.Yeah, you make a point line that dot friends that are definitely helped through the SSO.I got a few friends of Sydney that a book practices and I'm walking through the whole thing.And I even look at that books, every quarter for them and help them with their business.
I really enjoy that stuff.I think not everyone's mind works that way, you know, and I think definitely, if you can find some of this done it.I have those one guy I Locum for it was like a really good dude, and he gave me a lot of advice.So I used to pick his brain, a lot at the end of the day, like if you can get the vet school you can figure out it.
Like this is way easier than You know, learning the, you know, equine in 40th, you know, the practice ownership thing, as you say, a lot of people's minds don't work like that, it's not I didn't grow up in a business culture, I found it better flying and intimidating and as soon as people started saying, you needed an ABN and decks this and I just went, no, I don't want it, don't want to do it right?
Which a, I think it's as you can safely.As you say that the message is, it's not as hard as you think, you can figure it out.But then the scared to get help but it is people lot of nice people around that can help though.
Want anything in return.They just it's got to speak up, you know, the West Coast people say.No, I'm not gonna help nothing Lots there.You know, you got to just send emails, contact people on Facebook, LinkedIn, whatever.I'm just ask for help and you'll find someone that wants to help.Maybe we don't ask the person who's 500 meters down the road that you opened up a practice right next to be, I actually became pretty good lights with one thing.
I'm not like when there's enough work to go around.Like if you run a practice going, anyway, I had a guy down the road you know that hole that you just put your head down.Worry about yourself and just offer great customer service and going to have more work than you need.What about people who got?
Ya know, it's it's definitely not for me.I don't want to own a business for whatever reason with it family, or can't get financial backing, is it still possible to get ahead financially as a very difficult without practice ownership?I think, yeah, like, definitely I think you need to think outside the box, though.
Like, there were a bunch of examples that, you know, of fats who maybe upskill in say, Ultra Sultan other for, you know, and imaging maybe they get their memberships.Spend a bunch of time, you know, obviously not doing a residency, but but this youth, you're getting memberships in image in and then in a lot of busy practices, then you can become that in-house scanner and that adds huge value to a clinic like gigantic, you know?
So if a particular things are done three or four five, six seven day, you know, and you're doing that and you're not having to pay 350 or 400 bucks for the travel in groups, not refer or how all the fur in those cases, if you get super good at it, then that's that's a huge amount of value practice.And then if go shade with the the owners frankly, you can you can hopefully see some of that back in your backpack at if you negotiate copy and you know, there's other ways to kill yourself.
Obviously surgical staff, 50, again, just a bunch of courses, memberships.I mean, just being able to just run through.A bunch of big surgeries with no stress and cause your boss, no hassle, need your stripers, very, very good.And you're just that trusted person who can solve a lot of those problems for your boss, then it definitely is a way to do well and it is and there are other ways to and then I think other things like salary sacrifice in and just concentrating on super, from a young age is hugely powerful.
We all get older quicker than we think and it's just such a tax friendly place for money to be.And I think that there should be trying to minimize their tax.That's when the young age, you know, why pay more tax and you need to?And, you know, I think we can pay up to 25 bound and super per year and it's the, you know, it will save us tax and I think little things like that can help people get ahead that don't have any interest in practice ownership if you do.
Make yourself valuable to Fox the end of the day.If you're lazy and just want to just chill out and do minimal work.Of course, like you don't deserve any of the walls, right?Yeah no, I totally agree with you there.It's kind of like a most you going to find your Niche or evaluating proposition to the business one that actually then leverage that the value you bring is not a dead end is like ultrasound or imagery is powerful evaluating position in the business because all of a sudden, now you can diagnose surgical things, because a lot of surgeries like foreign bodies, internal, abdomens septics, whatever it is diagnosed on imagery.
Especially ultrasound not on blots.So if you get your ultrasound, all of a sudden you open up your practice to so many different surgeries that they never been able to confirm before.I it's just yeah, that ultrasound skill has just it's the biggest no-brainer I think and the teleradiology does it have.
Residencies.And then getting telling Radiology why they're starting salary is about 250 K and so obviously then get to a residency nicer stuff bit, do it.You know, I've got some friends that have no interest in learning.Only in a clinic, but have done very well themselves.You know, probably need some extra education than just a standard that to Great.
There's a there's a think, a limiting belief that we put on ourselves as well as that I have to specialize to be able to get really good at eggs.Ryan said, or to learn more for this special skill, but this heater things in a clinic is in a busy GP Clinic, when you ultrasounds the obvious one, but it's also becoming more and more popular and more and more commonplace.
So, like, I used to be the only dude in the You could scan and I do all the scans now, there'd be three or four way to quite happy scan and like, where I work now everybody can scan, but this other skills that people just don't like it.You know, you think of dental dental extractions like, yeah, I'll never want to do that again or even or you know Nittany, she sort of things to go you.
Nobody else wants to do it with.We probably don't like it because you're not that good at it.So get really good at and be the guy or the girl.And then start saying, look, I'm generating this.Much just from this little niche thing.I'm going to do this later have take a percentage, you're totally right and you don't always need memberships, even if I like it.
You know, we've all met vets who absolutely brilliant at GD.V use and certain surgeries who haven't had just got their standard all about degree because I've just worked their ass off that done.So many of them, they do, you know, and they put the time in and those bets are incredibly valuable to a clinic and even even greater great people skills who just want to consult, you know, some most advanced at that.
Just consoling events these days but they are just so home.Good at consoling, because it's a skill, you know, you've got, it is 100% of skills like you to put in your personality of the test and that the clients like it or not.And it's comes down to that having my client did.
I did the customers, leave that clinic feeling good.And so happy about themselves and that is a massive skill to just being able to consult like that.He's a common thing I come across in discussions and I've felt this myself.So we talked about, you have to be valuable to the bus.Be able to demand a higher wage and then you get where to Fantastic Consulting vids, but not necessarily surgeons or that, you know, they're not building the high-value stuff.
And then they'll say, well, when I talked to my boss and they look at percentages and old my average earnings or average car.So then I can't negotiate a good salary because I'm not building the giant, you know, the PLO is and that sort of stuff.But but then they go but I'm the one booking it.I'm the one that's that's it's not.
Come on.Out of control.So excited and I don't know the solution.Is it a question of literally keeping score of saying look that his the work I booked this year.So if you say that you ready for that negotiation to say yeah my my numbers don't look at good but yeah I've kept track I've got a spreadsheet over the last six months of the surgeries I booked in.
So tell me now that I'm not valuable to this Clinic all you yeah look I got my number is I'm a numbers guy like numbers kind of get in my head and I can't get him out but like the I could No, just when I'd been console and shits now like I'll still be thinking myself like just a quick summon my head, then you're shit.
You know?I just generated 8000 and blah blah blah and I'm not the one doing those surgeries some of the times or whatever.But it's it is that that school of consoling.It's so important.I think you need to stand up yourself and you need to, you know, I hate how Clinic, say all that for a performance review, it should be called a performance and pay love you because you should never have to sit down with your buddy boss.
I told about your performance without talking about money at the same time, okay.Because because it's probably a lot it's me to tears when like you hear of a nurse or vapor gets pulled in performance review and I like, won't they had the money stuff?Go like oh we didn't talk money, I've been on the same pay the three years but no it's like it's ridiculous and I think things need to change and that's their bit of education and fifth year from just to someone who says it how it is and sets its everyone now and Say look, yeah you and I have walked over, you know, you and your pay is want to stay that stagnated for years and years and years.
Unless you have regular meat into the bosses and stand up yourself and realize how that bosses.The employer is mean the Vets.These days more than you really need them.There's so many places to work, there's a shortage bets.If you valuable to them, then you should be should just like final round and moved to whatever package you need to be.
That be happy.I do think there is also a certain degree of self-advocacy with your achievements.Like, not from a boasting perspective, but it might be that you might say, ah, someone's like a booked in 3T Billows this week but you might not be doing the surgery but you might be the one who actually diagnosed and so forth, right, rather than just the Silence of a just a good worker who just keeps on turning out and pushing work out the back.
Someone else, right?I think there is a certain level of it's not.It's of honest.Honest, awareness work that you do, you know, you're right.I noticed this important because you can't delude yourself and go.I'm so I'm so valuable the air and then.So what would I want to know where you were you into now?
Wait wait wait wait, wait wait, baby.Actually I have mercy, I just want it's interesting.You say that we need to you know that what you're talking about.Oh yeah, but on the same salary for three years.We didn't talk about money.It's almost like this.It's a dirty word in our profession because with this caring profession, we know that we don't go into it for the money.
We know that most people eat, I'm surprised like Jurado didn't know my third year that what he was going to earn more until I got out of uni life.I was even worse than I had in the back of the nine is spoke to made of Mines dad.
A bit about studying Vietnamese just said, don't do it, you'll never any money.So I was already into it.So again, when you're 19, you go, I don't care about money.I just want to do something, I'm passionate about.Yeah, so, that's exactly that.What I'm getting at is, we have this mindset or many of us have not even supposed to talk about it, you know, when the clients use that line of all you care about is the money, it really stings because, you know, our values are just so antimony or Millet and to money, but we're not allowed to talk about that.
Do you agree with that?Yeah, I mean you're talking about money is a massive Taboo in many ways like thing is, like I don't think any of us got into vet to like be silly dance, because this is not the right space, but most of us kind of do love animals sounds.So cliche that we do, we really get off on helping people and we drive home after a long shift in and we finish it in the actually did something good for society today and I still feel that and that's one of the reasons I still work because I just I feel that it's worthwhile thing to the to spend my time doing it.
You know, in financial, just moving money from one place to another and adding no value to the world.You actually actually helping people through the end of the day.We all need to live.We all have Kit or know I have kids, got some of us getting into go to school.We all have houses that we need to pay for and last expensive, you know what I want to go on holidays overseas and be able to afford that and you can't.
It's sad that a lot of that's just a strug on struggle Street, whose their bosses aren't on struggle Street.Well, I know this the old Clinic that doesn't do well.But I've looked at it, I've been involved in made the books of topic.Well, over a dozen clinics.I've yet to find I found a few that haven't done great but most of them are doing way better and it's the oldest trick in the book that vets like pretend they're doing poorly.
You know, all it's been a slow winter or shit.It's like, you know, it's been a hard year.I mean, it's 99% of time.They're talking complete bullshit to try and convince you that they can't afford to pay him.Or, or you know, all year, you could have come in on Sunday but we're not going to pay you time and a half, you know, you should just give up your son. they exchange rate is a Wednesday or all that stuff because yeah most of them are doing really well, yeah, as a whole So don't back to is the mindset around money right in the dirty word like because it's kind of dirty and we should do it because we love pets and things like that.
But I'm always Actually, when I moved into coaching the coach that I had was actually made heaps of money on changing people's money mindset changing, the minds of they have around that money and then he and the way he explained his money is energy.
Like if you want to do good in the world you could do good in the world to a certain degree with limited resources, but if you had money, you could actually scale your impact and do a lot of good in the world, right?So it depends what you want to do.Money is kind of like energy, you could push.
That energy wherever you want to go, but it took the took away, the the dirtiness of the word.Yeah.But now it is even rolled into my own mindset when I was drop my car off to the mechanic like I used to say oh shit.
That was like 700 bucks to change the oil in shit.Now it's like dude if it's 700 bucks, it's a yeah.So I stopped devaluing all the professions.Yeah.And it created this freedom of just like a look that's what it is.That's what it is.
You know me.Yeah.Oh yeah totally yeah.Most most Pakistan is if you know I figured all that out.And yeah what do you think?Like the other thing that I feel is that If you want to change your mindset, you go to surround yourself with people who have a different mindset.
Right?Yeah.So what advice would you give to someone who wanted to?I don't know, like I like, how would you change your money mindset?Because it sounds like as if you went through a lot of financial literacy and and educated yourself in that area I like I did love you knowledge is power and you know how to get confident to do a gdv or cesarean but by getting torn but practicing and watching our videos and then getting in and doing it, And like there are books to read.
There are podcasts or listen to mutually education.You know, you educate yourself in the stuff, you get way more confident, talking about it and you understand how that world works because the so, so many vets are know who the whole bunny world is just like it's French, you know, and I can't speak French, you know that it's all about spending the time.
You got to educate yourself even if you don't solve them for in just listen to podcast in the car, just beats books.Educate yourself.And then it just not It's not rabbits eyes, and then just the other thing I think is like, you know, like when you start a relationship with a practice from the day one, you it should be clear what sort of personality you are.
It's like the relationship in life, like a revelation, to get, you might partner that the systems are put in place early on in a relationship, tend to tend to Locks Decay.They tend to be consistent.And so if you're just stuck starting with a job, it should be.Hey, we do performance reviews.
In six months, we should be having pay reviews, then as well, we should be openly discussing okay?If if you've are, it's your shift ends at 7:00 and you're on a salary but you get you've been so swept off your feet because it clinics so busy and you have to stay there till 9:30 10:00 at night, which happens.
I see, that's doing this all the time and it's very, very common.That's not.That's part of the job that you shouldn't just be all your on a salary.You need to stay away from extra for hours like notes because, you know, that's a career in.You chose to be a vet.Let's No, like that should if you have to work extra hours, it should be paid for those hours.
And so I think it is start a relationship.If you get all that stuff on the table and they know exactly what you want.And that you're just not the sort of person just going to lay down and just let that stuff fly.It's much easier to then manage that on Dolly.
What's your take on financial transparency and businesses and employees.I think it's a good thing, you know, a huge.Huge, for example, you very transparent diet, we have to tell you, Up in anything, you know.Sometimes there's a little bit too chess Grand perhaps, but, you know, and he was very transparent and she actually ran a business that paid that very well.
Okay, and everyone respects him because he did that.And he said, he sets systems up in place and people love working for you because he was transparent open, he made everyone feel like a team, he would tell everyone if they had a great year and we were happy for it.And we worked hard for him because he was rewarding us and Have been making more money, you know, if he, if he had that traditional, my said maybe.
But then again, like I remember shifts at 3 a.m. doing a transfusion, which I probably could have waited until 7:00 a.m. our sacrifice.It was just punch this out, you know, not find.I know I'd get the transfusion when it's 3 a.m. and you know, and obviously better for the dog, got an in quicker.
But you know those little extra bits like I think transparency is key.Now we used to give our nurses Christmas bonuses, you know just checks.I'll just get a member of the check-in.It wasn't like, yeah, 5,000 each, but it was enough to pay all their Christmas presents for example.
And when you're living for week-to-week, like a lot of people do, that's a really nice.Hey, thank you.You're a huge part of this team.Had a great year, here's a present.You know.I hope this helps you through this really expensive time of the year, okay.You know, little things like that is was my way of Dripping transparent and I think it's I think it's key.
So you talked earlier about the excuses that advisors use You.And in your opinion, lots of them are bullshitting.How do you call it at the festival?Takes a lot of Courage, but how do you call bullshit on that?How do you, how do you have that conversation to go?Or did you call it call their Bluff would say, well, if you can't pay me more, I'm out.
I don't know.How do you approach that?Yeah, I think I think.Yeah.Look it's hard and then this is obviously where most people struggle.It's that its confrontational isn't it?And to kind of question someone of authority.That's a boss.And yeah, I think it takes I think it takes a negotiator just because I think that I think in vet school instead of some of the total time wasting things, we learned there should have just been maybe like two week course on how to negotiate that.
That would be so powerful for bats and Yeah, there's no way around it Q.You know, like the old saying no we're not started.I was on 38 Grand so you need to start on 40 bat.Well I'm just like no one gives a shit about what happened 20 years ago.This is 1021.
This is vegetable an image and times have changed.The other thing is all your pages already above award.What are you engine about me?Who gives a crap about a war shouldn't even bother?Shouldn't even look at a ward.They can't find nurses.Okay, the Love of Money.Come finances.
Shit, pay them all, you know, double their hourly rate, but they're not doing that, you know.There's think you know, it's a privilege to work at this Specialist Hospital where it's like in other Industries.If you like in the Regan most other Industries to say, okay, we can't find people to work either currently paying them 30 an hour.
Let's up at 2:45 and see the solve our problem.Chances are it will You do have to eat the, the Baseline need and thing.You should have dressed first and make sure you cover is finances, right?
If you don't cover the money conversation with any employee, then this very hard to go.Any further and have building more trust if they feel like they're not being remunerated appropriately to some degrees out, right?So am I mean discussion is always critical.
Yeah, it's not always mad at always That money like a great way to make stuff.Happy is just treating us, you know, like, you know it's to buy lunch and coffee for the stuff.You gotta wait for a law firm in the big ones, have, you know, lunch platter there or what?
I love.You never buy lunch and so little things like that, go a long way.Like Christmas presents free lunches, asking them, you know, just being a be nice them and, you know, you hear a lot of bosses, I know I shouldn't be friends with the staff.I mean, why not like, what's wrong with having a nice friendly relationship with people and being part of a team.
And so Yeah, it's not always a lot of people are motivated by actually paid.A lot of people are not and just they just want to be part of a very close team.It's challenging, it's risky that this conversation will, you'll have a practice owner, listen to this and go like you guys, it's a hard job, man.
It's, we need to make money and you making us sound, like the bad guys, which is not fair, because it is a hard job.I'm going to do you worked on Sammy.How did you find the practice ownership?But you sold it.If it was easy-peasy, then you would have Stuck with start with it.It's, it's like it it's like a hundred times harder than being an employee, you know, as you can't compare it and after you just said before that, it's not that hard.
Yeah, it's what I meant.It was the business figured out with business stuff.Isn't that hard?Like, you know, how to get financed, how to fund it all that.So that's all that happens.You have a run a business, how to get a bookkeeper that?Well, that's what I mean, like, that stuff is easy.Anyone can figure that out like, it's not rocket science, but But the actual reality of running practice is ridiculously hard.
Just the stresses that has to come out the client complained to come out.The fact that you know, when the shit hits the fan, it's always you.You know that's tops of the own art went anger, really going role, you know, it was this freak storm in City, one year and the clinic flooded it on Christmas.
It's like, you know, this all these small issues.You know, I had, I had this tick case once by was very well-known, woman in Sydney, who Who dropped their cat off a board in my wife and I said, we're never going to tell you one more story, right?But this is an example of the stresses that go into our own in an about practice.
So this this very powerful woman in Sydney, to dropped a cannon for board in, Okay?And like drops in the next day you know the nurse all.I can still remember the nurse running out a little boarding room run into seeing so Sam Sam mrs.Roberts Cabot's gagging - ah shit okay and then quickly when dr.
Cat just got two large sticks on it.I trow sticks.Still hardly the Kyle.I get texians gagging and retching that's, that's not good.And so, you know, Hugh, you know, I had to make a split decision.Like the right thing to do, is to quickly call the owner call, the owner phone arteries on a cruise ship.
Not the sort of person that you really want to call it.Bad news.Right?I made a split-second decision to just I just we just did everything we could to save that cat.I just didn't want to deal with the implications of my life and I stayed up for four nights in a row.Sleeping on a yoga mat.
Next to this cat's ventilator.I got into the rhythm of this into the more, the machine.If you've been blood gases every four hours, just everything we could do for this card.Never worked so hard in the case in my life, we save that cat.There's later came back and made the split decision not to send her an email, you know.
It was baby.One of those bad decisions that worked in worked out to be good one, but we are many work.So hard didn't sleep, still have to run the practice during the day.That's the sort of stuff.When your practice owner, you got to deal with that shit.She could have reached some Havoc for our business.The sort of lady she was you know, and they had a little problems that pop up you know, bunch of problems like that.
That's just a regular thing.Yeah.So it's not Like a, you know what employees to to be exploited.The vit practice owners are allowed to earn money from running the business, for sure.Otherwise, you don't gotta do it.
It's a, it's hard to make that transparent.The amount of work that goes into running a business.It's funny.The other day, I think one of our vets said to said to someone, who knows what is the hospital drink do?I've been thinking when I talked to Jared, I see your Instagram feed, you just at the gym all day, but yeah, but the it is hard to demonstrate.
Exactly.You know what it is?Some of the stuff that you talk about it's a relentlessness that what I found most of the work is the work.That's okay.Well, works hard work but it doesn't even leave you.So when you're in a, when I was Employee, you go to work, do your cases.
You come home and you go well maybe I'll worry about that one cat or that one dog.But those are my worries but I'm not worried about.Yeah.But I don't worry about what happens if no sex is sick tomorrow morning or is even on a holiday when I was owning the practice in the back of your head even when you lying on the beach relaxing because you're doing well, financially in the back of your head.
They're still don't know what sort of shit.I'm going to face when I get back home, miss Halliday, what's gone wrong with complains of a god?Waiting for me, all that sort of stuff.So, there's, it's, there's a lot to be said, For that but you're right and it's a time.It's gonna be team.If we've got to make money.Yeah.
You're gonna make money be an employee.But you got to help you guys too well as well.Yeah, I'll definitely it's a team effort and it's not reason why everyone can't win either clinics run really.Well, you know, I remember one time we lie, we very rarely went away.We went away for three nights, and we came back and the head nurse was a very strong character, and she, and there was a Revolt, all the other nurses, but threatening to leave.
Unless we got rid of that one, you know, I didn't.Actually see this come in I had like or a whole team that would just like to come with me anymore.You know.Like just a three-day break is enough to just turn the whole business on its head.Yeah it's Amorous stuff yet.
Yeah, it's 24-hour. 2720 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 and I haven't had Christmas off for ten years but also even on holidays, emails, text messages.You just keep coming through you either decide to not.
Read them and come back to 200 emails or you, or you keep solely on top of it.And I always been the kind of person who kept on top of it, but that meant, that always there was always on holiday.There was always business in the back of the mind, but it's kind of the price you pay right in a way to nurture your little baby so that you can grows into what it needs to grow into.
But where are you now?What business you will?Now you still just work as a veterinarian.How did you transition or what are?You leveraging your knowledge at now To so yeah, absolutely that's use.I'll practice in in Perth weirdest place.I still work.
It's only be honest.One shift a fortnight that's locked down and I do some feelings shifts that.People sometimes it'll probably are which is why not week during busy times and not working in heavily, but I do.So I do the old Locum shift for various practices around, perp to just casual one bit, that's getting less and less and I still love being a vet.
But I just, you know, about four years ago, I have this idea.I've always been into sneakers and running shoes.So many, my met Russ Johnson.We just decided to start tinkering around with running shoes and just like if we could try and create a really cool running through that was mainly recycled, that would be kind of cool and it fine and over to we just set off for the challenge of that time.
And and then it just one thing led to another and four years of travel around the world a bit and learn about industry.And you know I spent about four years of tinkering with shoes.We ended up inventing the really cool running shoe.That's too much or Cycle and some of that's actually decomposable as well in the compost and and then we can actually just partnered with this company in Melbourne that can recycle and turn our shoes back into rubber mats and you know, things like that post you.
So our shoes and Evan are you good?You good post them back like that.So yeah once you're done with your sneakers, your poster to this company to our staff and partner and and we can do it.We're going to document it all on Instagram and show exactly than that shoes, what?That's getting turned back into my and that's we need to pay for that recycling, the company will pay for that bit.
We just saw the court at talk on which is like this big rain forest in Tasmania that the government's just slowly log in and destroying and it's a world s largest temperate rainforest.It's absolutely.The most amazing place that he sends the world's second-largest.Well, secondly, a temperate rainforest.
Yeah, it's gigantic.And I've been a bunch of times and it's just, I just love it.I love the place, and it's just so threatened is tazzy Devils running around.Obviously, threatened species, and we just log in their habitat to death.And so we thought she did we go.To do this.Like let's try and do something good.
It's not just about business and money and stuff.And so 2% of all revenue gets donated to this big organization in Tassie that are fighting to say that rainforest.And you know and a pair of a show you should never go to landfill you know, they never ever should that happen.They should go and get recycled it and then we're hoping that you know other companies will follow the row then went further away and start offering recycling programs it's going to cut into their margins but I think it's the new corporate responsibility it's while companies These days and I know it's completely different a bat bit.
Just you know, I've got a bit of a day off thinking, I can't I'm always thinking of cool different things and I just can't sit tired.I wish I could sometimes could just chill out and read books for a few months.Just on me, just kind of accepted who I am.And I'm just having a lot of fun developing sneakers right now and we're just going to see how those I'm always going to be a vet though because I know, I do love benefits.
Oh well, you cool.Then I really love like the whole What?Sorry Judith.You looked upset.Then for a second.Oh not at all he doesn't.It's kind of like he's about to say something in there and then we buy I really think that's cool and indeed.
Okay.So did you use your business skills that you learned from bad to some degree to like, what did you learn from bet that helped you with?The side.Hustle.Now that's becoming a thing.Yeah, I mean look the main thing is that I think your people people think that, you know, different businesses, they can avoid that whole customer experience and customer service thing.
It's less intense, the customer, you know, this sneaker company, I find way easier the moment then then running fat because the customer service and event world is intense the oh yeah, animals are passing away and was a lot of emotions involved.Worst case scenario here, someone doesn't like the shoes and they have a Win.
Can you just so you get over it.Catch you later.No, it definitely that we have, you know, our customer service is spot-on.We brought back to you know we get into 13 14 hours a day, the moment and we're just a start-up and we get back to these people within hours and give them really good.
Honest.Transparent answers about where the shoes are made, whatever they want to know.We tell them and I think the biggest thing I've learned for the bed industry is that you can't avoid customer service if you want to have its part of We all kind of want to look at ourselves away and never have to talk to a customer ever again.
Well, not all of us, but a lot of us want that and well, doesn't exist, just not there.The sooner, you get over that and just realize that you need to develop your people skills and customer service skills.And that's really what the main thing bet.Told me, definitely the business stuff as I say, in start, like, this is stuff is a rocket science.
I got really think if people spend the time, they can learn about capital and how much money you need behind you.And what's your margin that how big is the market size and Market opportunity like that?That stuff is not.You can get through vegetable you can get your head around that stuff in a Flash.Why running shoes?
I don't think I've ever actually asked you this because you've been, you could have million business ideas while you're at it.Why the running shoe?Yeah, I mean we're just finishing while I see, I was out of uni, but in 2008 may know, I've always been a middle distance Runner.And me animate my restaurants and say, made like we were Staffing, my own websites back then, and we started this website called Runners trial.com, and it's like a big running, its Groaning to be a pretty big planning website.
It's not like a business owner thing.It's like it, it's a huge database.We get millions of people our website, every year.We have forget, I am a database.It's over 100,000.And so, yeah, I've just always been obsessed with groanings, now, run every day and so, it was just a logical thing guys, because I just go through so many shoes, I'm just checking on the bed.
Now just think of shooting was going to be a better way to do this.And that's where the idea came from.Yeah.That's cool.I like that is it's a typical thing.There's a better way.Well, it's always trying to solve a problem, right?If you solve a problem and you solve a problem that enough people have, then that's a way that you can, you should be rewarded for solving people's problems.
Exactly.Yeah.Yeah, there's a progress.Clear problem there and it's the same as when you go to a bar practice, you know I just came back to bear for a sec.It's like the traditional thing is to work 10 years of practice, and then the boss will be like, oh, I'll let you buy in eventually how How does that ever happen?Your boss makes up an excuse and just LED you on the 10 years, right?
But then also do you really want to buy into that practice?That's been running for 10 years and probably at its saturation point in its growth has really slowed, you know, and you want to pay top dollar GP practice in a major city.Might say they're really, really well run to myself a lot, two and a half three Miller something you know you got to pay that top price because the Clinic's already onto its growth phase and it's like I think that line of thinking I'm going to work for a boss for 10, 20 years and he's not alone.
I didn't that's a dump.I think about practice ownership.It's you got to solve a problem.I did, you want to get ahead, you know, you need to eat a start-up practice in an area that doesn't have a practice because that's sold in problem.Or you got to find a practice that's so run down, or there's an opportunity.
Like you knows that this practice in the southern suburbs of Perth.It a few years ago the only going to massive Financial you know we won't go into too much bit tax issues and problems like legal problem but significant the problems that clinic didn't go for super cheap.It is definitely a bit of a fire sale.They got got a huge discount and that person's saw a problem, right?
They said and and jumped on that opportunity and they're doing fantastically well.I think that with all this stuff find a problem and then solve that problem, you know, find that he is shithole.Biggest NASA, the clinic, you can try and take it off their hands the next to nothing or start something can brand new area but we start wrapping.
Surely you got some good books and resources that I've got a podcast but that it helped Listening to it them own right?And one will I get some books resources, you know loves you allow him to which is the best podcast.I'm just saying, mate because there's no other best podcast night.
Look, obviously, I love you guys, but look that do you get to say that brand?Yeah, I'll bet ball red ball.Wow, thanks.I don't know.You guys have a great products.
Like, you know, I just, I always said excited to, you know, this You have this amazing product there, look in terms of podcasts um I'm a massive history buff and I was bagging out the Russians are before but I love Hardcore History Podcast, ever live down Carl and then hardcore history.
And I listen to all those episodes and you know that stuff we already know about V and then on the business side of things, this is business.I'll cast for now business Wars, which is fantastic.Very, very fine and they're mine.They're my favorite ones right now.It's good to hear business.
People were recommended Business podcast.They listen to it again value from because it so that's a good jump.Start like Head Start it's okay.And if they the guys are just tell a great story and really good storytelling.So I'm everyone upset that podcast to just wipe back saying and it's so fun.
One last question Sammy.So we had a conference somewhere and Sam is wife's am talking at a conference about running shoes.I'm not sure but you have an opportunity to talk to all the new graduates of the World.And you got to give them one bit of advice, a couple of minutes.
What's your one message?Definitely definitely learn how to negotiate, not something that there's navigate spoken about H, you can't negotiate, you don't have the negotiation skills, then it's life's going to be difficult for you unfortunately.
And it's the same Mo important in.A lot of the other stuff, we all want to be great bets and its importance, to be a great bed and understand all the medical stuff.But you know, to get through life successfully and you really need to learn how to negotiate and figure out what But what you need to succeed and support your family.
They I think opportunity for you guys to know, you should start a negotiating side hustle on you.How do you learn to negotiate?How did you learn to negotiate?That's the question.I didn't like that wasn't a concrete business.They used to just sit in his car when we're driving a sports games and he'd have his phone on and I just here and just abusing people just trying to get his Way Concord Industries are rough world and, and you just the head just be just, you know, just going back.
We'll just, just get in his way and negotiating.I think I'm a young age.I'm just listening to him doing that.And so I guess I have it at an advantage because I had a dad.Who is you would you would have seen the extreme As roughness of negotiation and then realize there's an art to where I think the Crux of negotiation is like, it's almost like you unless you just realized that unless you ask the answers going to be no.
Oh yeah.Then the first question is asking and then negotiation just rolls through with that, but there's no negotiation with you.Ask.Oh, yeah.And if you are known as that, bet that asks, then before someone ask something from you, I'll be like, hey, we need help.We need to figure out will be Going to, well, we're going to pay for this or how we going to, because we know the questions, come, you know, so it just helps you in every way because before they asked me to do those Christmas shifts, so we like, hey, you know, the questions coming.
So let's figure this out before hand, you know?And it's not, I it is not about being pushy necessarily, I like no you don't have to reset a pushy, it's exactly that just ask again from from my practice ownership days.As an owner, you got a lot to think about and and you don't always when you want to be generous and think about people and and you know talk about wage increases or anything like that, but you don't always have the mental capacity, then some people will never ask.
So then nothing ever happens because they sort of drop off your mental radar and if they ever get one of those come up to you and say, hey what about arrays are like oh shit, you haven't had a raise for three years.Yeah, of course, just open your mouth and ask you might be surprised.But busy practice is like that.I think And yeah, I mean years though by like practice owners have like a list of 100 things I need to do, maybe it's not popping in the head of they haven't given a pay rise.
In three years is just gotta remind them.You know, very nicely.He's just have a chat have a cup of tea and just, you know, just openly chat about it and I really nice friendly way and it gets his long way.So that was amazing.We've had many of these conversations over beers but I love hearing you.
Officially thank you so much for joining us on the vehicle, man.Yeah, a lot it.So, thanks have a good luck with dark-eyed.I hope Santa brings me a pair of definitely.There's any young vets out there that want to me to look over what your clinic that they want to buy or anything.
You know.I don't want any money in return.I'm happy to help you guys.So just send me message.You should totally take them up on that.It's a, he's giving me some Sound Advice.Send us an email at the red fog and I'll put you in touch with Sam.

Dr Sam Burke