Oct. 29, 2024

#131: Resilience Redefined, The Opposite Of Stuck, and Taking Control Of Your Own Wellbeing. With Dr Jess Moore-Jones

#131: Resilience Redefined, The Opposite Of Stuck, and Taking Control Of Your Own Wellbeing. With Dr Jess Moore-Jones

Veterinary coach Dr. Jessica Moore-Jones unpacks workplace dynamics, generational differences in resilience, and how veterinarians can redefine their career satisfaction. Dr Jess challenges the dichotomy of ‘younger vs. older’ vets, exploring the evolving expectations of work-life balance and the need for flexibility in professional boundaries. Key topics include identifying when resilience turns toxic, balancing short-term sacrifices with long-term career fulfillment, and avoiding the traps of burnout and quiet quitting. We share practical advice for managing boundaries, fostering empathy among team members, and making intentional choices to maintain personal well-being and professional engagement. Dr. Jones also emphasises the importance of self-awareness, recognising agency in challenging situations, and adapting to a rapidly changing industry.

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Season 1

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If you scroll through any veterinary chat group you won’t have to scroll for long before you see a conversation along the lines of:  “My career as it is now isn’t really working for me, but I don’t know what my other options are.  I feel… stuck.”

So how do you become unstuck?

Dr Jess Moore Jones is a bit obsessed with what keeps vets engaged and fulfilled, and she helps individuals and teams figure out how to create resilient and thriving cultures and careers through  her business, ⁠Unleashed Coaching and Consulting⁠, and in this episode we unpack a few of the talks she presented at WVAC 2024: 

  • The choices we make: taking back the power as veterinary professionals to be in control of our own resilience and our own wellbeing.
  • YOU ARE NOT STUCK: helping veterinarians discover that a meaningful, fulfilling career (and life) is possible.

Jess shares her thoughts on where the line is between being a good team member and having healthy boundaries, why being selfish in the short term can be generous in the long run, and we talk about the ‘four doors’ available to you with every challenging situation. We discuss Jess' first steps to becoming ‘unstuck’ from your career rut, and we ask the big question: are the new generations of vets ‘soft’, or just wise?!

Join Dr Jess on 28 November 2024 for her online ⁠Women in Veterinary Leadership Summit. ⁠

Topics and Time Stamps

02:21 The Generational Debate: Are Younger Vets Soft?

03:43 Resilience in Veterinary Medicine: Good vs. Toxic

10:30 Balancing Boundaries: Soft vs. Hard

15:15 Long-term Resilience vs Short-Term People-Pleasing

20:02 Career Coaching: Moving from Stuck to Fulfilled

22:55 Challenging Traditional Work Structures

23:34 Discovering Your True Self

25:06 Overcoming Fear and Taking Action

26:22 Exploring New Opportunities

29:05 The Power of Choice in Your Career

34:27 Mindfulness and Self-Awareness

36:01 Choosing Your Perspective

40:31 Embracing Negative Emotions

We love to hear from you. If you have a question for us or you’d like to give us some feedback please get in touch via our contact form at ⁠⁠thevetvault.com⁠⁠, or catch up with us on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠.

And if you like what you hear, please share the love by clicking on the share button wherever you’re listening and sending a link to someone who you think should hear this. 

"How to Establish and Maintain Flexible Boundaries in a Veterinary Practice"

Maintaining boundaries in a veterinary practice is essential for avoiding burnout, fostering a collaborative work environment, and achieving a sustainable work-life balance. Flexible boundaries, as opposed to rigid ones, can help veterinarians and their teams navigate unexpected challenges without sacrificing personal well-being. Here’s how to establish and maintain them:

  1. Understand the Difference Between Hard and Soft Boundaries
  • Hard Boundaries: These are non-negotiable limits, such as a commitment to family time during specific hours or refusing to work on scheduled days off. For example, "I will not answer work calls between 6:30 and 7:00 PM because that’s my time to put my child to bed."
  • Soft Boundaries: These are adaptable limits that allow for flexibility under certain circumstances. For instance, "I don’t normally work overtime, but I’ll stay late today because a critical case came in. In exchange, I’ll take a longer break tomorrow."
  1. Communicate Your Boundaries Clearly
  • Have open conversations with your team and supervisors about your limits and the reasons behind them.
  • Use "we" language to foster collaboration, e.g., "Let’s decide as a team when it’s acceptable to interrupt lunch breaks or call someone in after hours."
  • Be honest and assertive without being confrontational to avoid misunderstandings.
  1. Create Teamwide Agreements
  • Work with your colleagues to set shared expectations around common scenarios:
    • When is it acceptable to skip a lunch break?
    • What circumstances justify a late-night phone call?
    • How do we handle last-minute emergencies?
  • Team agreements reduce individual burden and ensure consistent policies that everyone understands and supports.
  1. Balance Flexibility with Self-Care
  • Be willing to adapt when necessary, but recognize your limits.
  • Avoid resentment by negotiating for compensatory adjustments. For example:
    • If you stay late to handle an emergency, request an early finish the next day.
    • After missing a lunch break, ask for a lighter caseload to recoup.
  1. Watch for Signs of Overcommitment
  • Be aware of the warning signs that your boundaries are too soft:
    • Feeling consistently overwhelmed or resentful.
    • Chronic fatigue from always "saying yes."
    • Decreased productivity or engagement.
  • These are indicators that it’s time to re-evaluate and reinforce your boundaries.
  1. Use Empathy to Bridge Generational Perspectives
  • Recognize the impact of your boundaries on others, especially colleagues from different generations or with differing expectations.
  • Encourage older colleagues to appreciate the importance of work-life balance for younger vets.
  • Help younger team members understand the occasional need for professional flexibility in emergencies.
  1. Lead by Example
  • Practice what you preach by setting and maintaining your boundaries while showing flexibility when appropriate.
  • Encourage open discussions about boundaries during team meetings to normalize the conversation and support others in following suit.

By establishing clear, flexible boundaries and fostering a culture of mutual understanding, veterinary professionals can create a workplace that is both productive and respectful of individual needs. This balance helps improve team cohesion, reduce stress, and sustain long-term career satisfaction.

 

"Recognizing and Managing Burnout in Veterinary Professionals"

Burnout is a pervasive issue in veterinary medicine, stemming from the demands of the profession, long hours, and emotional strain. Recognizing its early signs and implementing strategies to manage it is critical for maintaining mental health, career longevity, and overall well-being.

  1. Understand the Signs of Burnout

Burnout manifests in various ways, including emotional, physical, and behavioral symptoms. Common signs include:

  • Emotional Symptoms: Chronic fatigue, lack of enthusiasm for work, feelings of helplessness, or resentment toward colleagues or clients.
  • Physical Symptoms: Insomnia, frequent illness, headaches, or muscle tension.
  • Behavioral Symptoms: Withdrawal from social interactions, decreased productivity, or frequent errors at work.
  1. Recognize Resentment as a Key Indicator
  • Resentment often signals a boundary issue. When professionals consistently sacrifice personal needs for work, it leads to frustration and feelings of being undervalued.
  • Ask yourself: "Am I feeling resentful about staying late, taking on extra work, or missing personal time?" If the answer is yes, it’s time to reassess your boundaries.
  1. Balance Short-Term Sacrifices with Long-Term Goals
  • Veterinary professionals often face situations where staying late or handling emergencies is unavoidable. However, chronic overextension without recovery leads to burnout.
  • Consider the "save today vs. save the future" mindset: While helping an extra patient today may feel rewarding, preserving your mental and physical health allows you to provide care over the long term.
  1. Build a Supportive Workplace Culture
  • Promote team discussions about workload distribution and shared responsibilities to prevent individuals from feeling overburdened.
  • Advocate for systemic changes, such as better staffing levels, clear boundaries on overtime, and wellness programs.
  • Encourage open communication about mental health and stress to reduce stigma and foster empathy.
  1. Implement Practical Stress Management Strategies
  • Take Regular Breaks: Even short pauses during a shift can help reset your focus and reduce stress.
  • Establish Work-Life Balance: Set boundaries to protect personal time and prioritize activities that bring joy and relaxation.
  • Practice Mindfulness: Techniques like deep breathing, meditation, or journaling can help you process stress and maintain perspective.
  1. Know When to Seek Help
  • Recognize when burnout requires professional support. Speaking with a coach, counselor, or therapist can provide tools to address stress and develop coping strategies.
  • Many organizations offer Employee Assistance Programs (EAPs) with resources for mental health support.
  1. Plan for Career Longevity
  • Burnout often stems from a mismatch between expectations and reality. Reflect on your long-term career goals and consider:
    • Adjusting your workload or schedule.
    • Exploring alternative career paths within the veterinary profession (e.g., consulting, education, research).
    • Pursuing part-time or locum roles to reduce stress while staying engaged in the field.
  1. Recognize the Role of Structural Change
  • While individual resilience is important, systemic issues such as understaffing and unrealistic expectations contribute significantly to burnout. Advocate for organizational change to create a healthier work environment.

By identifying burnout early, veterinary professionals can take proactive steps to regain control of their well-being, build resilience, and maintain a fulfilling and sustainable career. Collaboration among team members and leaders to address systemic challenges is equally crucial in tackling this widespread issue.

If you scroll through any veterinary chat group, you won't have to scroll for long before you see a conversation along the lines of I don't think the way my career is now is working for me, but I don't know what else I can do.I feel stuck.I'd say that would be in the top five, maybe even the top three concerns that you'll hear about our profession, right?
And if you calculate how many more of those 15 minute consults you will have to do before you retire at 65, like that's the sort of stuff that makes you actually want to stab your rivals out with a pen.And for every person saying it out loud, I reckon there's two or three others thinking at least at some point in their career.
I know for certain for myself that somewhere on my bookshelf there's an old diary where I scrawled.It's screaming capital letters.If not this, then what?So how do we become unstuck?Well, hold on tight because Doctor Jess has some insights for you.
I'm Ebert Heemstra and you're listening to the Vet Vault, where we celebrate the art and science of veterinary medicine, guiding you to thrive in your career and beyond.And in this episode, I chat to Doctor Jessica Moore Jones.Jess spent 15 years in clinical practice where she worked in various managerial and leadership roles, from leading teams in animal shelters, food departments to large specialist hospitals.
She loves a good culture shake up and she's a bit obsessed with what keeps vets engaged and fulfilled, which is why we headed off so well these days.She brings her skills to any organization that needs help with creating resilient teams and thriving cultures through her business Unleashed Coaching and Consulting.
I caught up with Jess earlier this year in South Africa at the World Veterinary Associations Conference and we had a very useful conversation about some of the talks that she did there.And I think you're going to love it.We cover how to get unstuck from your career, right?How to take control of your own well-being when?
We sit in a mindset of the industry is broken and or my clinic doesn't look after me.We fail to notice that we are in control of a vast proportion of our enjoyment of the industry.Which, by the way, does not mean putting up with a toxic work environment and just looking for Silver Linings, but rather recognizing the situations where you feel powerless but where you actually have a lot more agency to influence outcomes.
But first, we get straight into it with a doozy of a question.Are the younger generation of vets soft?Oh, by the way, if you listen to this and you think it sounds like my audio and Jess's audio sound weird and different, you spot out they are.
That's because we recorded this live on the trade floor at the conference with all of the associated background noise.And while I did a great job at capturing Jess's audio, I somehow stuffed up my own audio to the point where it would have been very hard for you to listen.So I've had to record my end of the conversation, which I'm doing coincidentally back in South Africa, in the spare bedroom in my mom's house, with my little portable microphone under a blanket to minimize the echo.
I would also, if you love this chat as much as I did and you want to hear more from Jess, you should join her at her upcoming Women and Veterinary Leadership Symposium on the 28th of November of this year.That's 2024.I'm not sure if you can still go if you're a dude.It's an online event, so you could probably get away with it.
It looks like it will be an amazing gathering of amazing people.You can find out more about this event and all of Jess's work at www.unleashedconsulting.com.au or look for Unleashed Consulting on all of the usual places on the socials.OK, let's get into it with Doctor Jessica Moore Jones and Redefining Resilience.
We're going to jump into this with a big question.I've talked a lot on the podcast about resilience, and it can be controversial and it can get tempers flaring a bit.When we talk about when is resilience toxic resilience?When is it good resilience?What's your workplace's responsibility?Is it their responsibility to change more than it is up to us to be more resilient?
And especially when we talk about is it a generational thing?Like are the younger generations of vets and humans?Are they soft?Yeah.Look, I, I love to be thrown straight in the deep end right away and just, you know, make enemies early.
Look, I think we oversimplify that question and that we try to turn it into a dichotomy of are they right or are we right?And particularly to generalize, we've got an older generation of vets who believe, you know, we worked our asses off, we did all of these things, we worked hard, we didn't whinge.
And now we've got this younger generation of vets coming through going work life, balance boundaries.You know, we don't want to have to do that because we shouldn't have to do that.And it's very much about, you know, that black and white, who's right, who's wrong.
So I think there's a few elements to it from my perspective.I'll give you the answer straight up and then talk about why, because you know, you might be let down the garden path and then be really disappointed in the end.I, I will deject and say I, I think I'm of the genera of the Goldilocks generation.
I'm not an old man.I'm not a young man.We're just, yeah.That's that's the only reason I vaguely get away with having this conversation is that I don't quite fit in either Cam.I've done a tough, but I don't want to do a tough way of myself.Yeah, exactly.Look, personally, I believe that the young ones are right, that yes, older generations of vets worked harder, they worked longer, they did amazingly hard things, they were on call all the time and good for them, you know, really impressive stuff going on there.
But I've just spent two days here listening to a bunch of resilience talks from a bunch of different people, a vast proportion of which, if I'm really honest with you, were middle-aged men who were talking about their experiences with having a breakdown and why they have now changed their ways.
And so when you look at it in the simplest possible form of is there a black and white, I'm going to say that yes, actually just because they did work harder in previous generations doesn't actually mean that that's the right way forward.
We can do differently now.We do know better now.We do have better systems and structures.We should be doing it.But I also want to caveat that with the world is different now.We have different expectations to the generation of those older vets who by stereotype we're male, often had a wife at home, who raised the children, who managed the diary, who remembered to buy the mother-in-law the birthday gift, who took the children to birthday parties and remembers the kids names.
And now whoever, whether you're male or female in the industry, you're doing all of those things yourself and you're expected to do them well, have this visible social life on social media or if you're that way inclined and you're seeing everyone else having and doing those things and you can't escape that.
Hang on, wait.I'm stuck in my clip for 70 hours a week.What what life is happening without me?So I do think it's twofold.A the world is different now.The expectations are different and the demographic is different.And that's not a bad thing.
And if we as an industry don't change with that, rather than resist it, I mean, I'm live the opinion, adapt or die.If we can't face the fact that the world is different now, the demographic is different now, we'll continue to flail with this recruitment and retention issue that we have been facing for a long time.
Yeah, there's a very good reason why there's so many conversations around this, right?Because it, it is that older generation of vets who started having their breakdowns and the suicides and, and, and, and when we started saying, hey, something's broken here, let's let's do something about it.
But I'm going to play devil's advocate a little bit.This is not necessarily my opinion, but I definitely see this out there.I feel like some of the older vets, and it's often the practice owners who now employ the younger generation of vets.
And I feel like the frustration for them is often.Yeah, we, we try really hard to have a different to the way we have it.And we appreciate that the way that we did it is not a deal and we're trying hard, but it's like it's just never enough.Yeah.We don't want to have the expectation that you have to be really tough every day just to get through the day and have superhuman resilience for the next 20 years.
That shouldn't be the expectation, but occasionally things are going to happen.It's, it's kind of baked into the profession, right?And then the feeling is that in this generation that there can be a, a, a too hard line where some of the new events are like, I'm not staying late ever.
And I think that when the older vets accuse the younger vets of a lack of resilience, they are they're talking about that attitude of I don't want any pressure ever, which I, I personally think is not good for you.Because I know from my early days, I did the hard stuff.
I did the nights on call and the crazy shifts and the 14 day runs with no days off.And I was never going to last forever on that.But on the flip side, I now know what I can do so that things would get tougher to work.I can go, yeah, this sucks, but I know I can get through it because I've done it before.
And I think that's the difference as well between, you know, being under stress and being under chronic stress.Yeah.So yes, I absolutely agree with you that there are some nights where you're going to work all night or some weeks where everything goes tits up and you're going to be there late every day.
As long as there's some give and take in that, but and that's not your life now, then yes, I totally agree with you that we need to learn to work with that.So how do you coach an individual through this?Let's say you have a young bed who comes to you for coaching.How do you coach them?Because you're not allowed to give advice because your coach and coaches don't give advice.
Right?Like when is too much too much?How much shit should you put up with before you say Nope?How much flicks do you give?When do you say, OK well I I will do an extra couple of Saturdays because the other vet is sick or something like that?But to be honest, that is about conversations, that is about teaching people how to a have soft boundaries, not hard boundaries.
So what that means is if you've got a hard boundary that's a brick wall that nobody can cross under any circumstances, then A, you're going to butt heads with people, but B, eventually brick walls break.You know, I have one brick wall boundary that between 6:30 and 7:00 at night, I'm putting my kid to bed.
I'm not going to answer the phone pretty much unless somebody is dying.And I don't mean an animal like don't call me.But most of the rest of my boundaries are what I'd call a soft boundary, which is, look, I don't want to wear a heaps of overtime today, you know, blocked cat came in at 10 minutes to six.
Somebody's going to stay.Somebody's got to do it.That's fine.I'm here 2 hours late.Can somebody book me off an early finish on Thursday?You know, I missed my lunch break today because that dog was seizuring.That's fine.Can somebody book me in 20 minutes later so that I can go and pee?
You know, it's about going what what is the reason that I am trying to protect this thing and how can I give and take?And how do I make that flexible and soft so that I still maintain a boundary, but I'm not setting myself up to fail by having a boundary that I'll never break, which inevitably I will.
But equally, I'm not frustrating other people with being so black and white.But more than that, the coaching that I do with both individuals but also with clinics is to just have those conversations in a facilitated way that helps a younger generation see the impact of your boundaries on other people and an older generation see the impact of their lack of them.
Empathy, It's empathy.It's perspective.I get why you wanted.To.And so then ideally, we get to a point where we agree team boundaries, so one person doesn't have to hold their own boundary.You all agree, what's a good reason to interrupt a lunch break?
You all agree, what's a good reason to be writing up your notes at home?What's a good reason to phone me on the weekend?And so everyone's on the same page.And you'll find most of the time you align a lot closer than you think.It's just because we all assume that there's this dichotomy that we don't talk about it, we just blame each other in.
A positional relationship vice versa's the staff.Absolutely, and it.Doesn't really exist as you say, we all want the same thing.Yep, we do all want the same thing.So when you coach people, because despite the fact that a lot of practice owners complain that the boundaries are too hard, having said that, most of the vets that I know, their boundaries are too soft.
Like they, they're trying, they're trying really hard to have boundaries, but they are, you know, bleeding hearts.Yes, we'll stay back.Yes, we'll see.That black cat 30 minutes after I was meant to be home.But it comes with a resentment.That's exactly what I wanted to ask you.So what do you tell your coaches?
What are the alarm bells that you are shifting towards resentment and that you'll be out here in three years time if something doesn't change?And I personally found that too, that that resentment that's always the final horsemen of the apocalypse, of the death of a job.For me, that feeling of this place is killing my soul.
It's, it's the resentment that is actually the biggest impact on your mental health, I tend to find.And you know, whether you're talking about a relationship or a job, it's not the actual work.It's the difference between what you expected and what you're experiencing and the whether you think other people are in it with you.
So the biggest thing I really do when I'm having conversations with people about how do you know when to draw the line?How you know, as you say, we're bleeding hearts.We want to do another good thing.But I spent most of my career in animal welfare, so I ran RSPCA's and, you know, the largest cat shelter in the Southern Hemisphere.
And I know what it is like to always want to fit one more animal in spay, one more cat or, you know, help what?And just we can, we can make space for that animal.And what it comes down to is you have to make a choice between how many animals do you want to save today versus how many animals could you save over a lifetime if you make better choices today.
So that means, Yep, I can fit one more animal in today and there'll be 299 more waiting for me tomorrow rather than 300.And I can do that every day this week and every day this month and every day this year.One more animal.I can always help one more.But guess what?
Your career is either going to be shorter because you'll burn out and leave or you'll actually just what's the word they use these days?The quiet quitting is you just become less engaged.You become less productive and less able to help as many animals as you could in the day because you're exhausted and burned out and fatigued.
So my biggest question to really work out where your line is, is do you want to save more animals today or more animals in a long, fulfilled, engaged career?And that's how you have to make your choices.And it's so variable, right, with different people and in different stages of your life and your career.
There was a specific moment for me when I realized that I'm getting a little bit better at this.I was working at a job that I really cared about and I like the team and I really wanted to help, but I was also feeling quite overwhelmed.The like the podcast work was just starting to pick up.I had another part time job somewhere and and I had limited time to dedicate, let's say emotional energy to dedicate to this job.
And at a stage the boss asked me one day could I work an extra, let's say Thursday.It was like Monday.And she said, oh, was there any chance you can work the stairs?They were really stuck for staff.And I stood there and in my head, I'm going like, shit, I really, really can't do this.
But a part of my brides going, yes, of course, you want to help the team.You want to you want to be part of this team, You want to be a useful team member.And I remember at that point the voice in my head that said, no, don't do this.You can regret it later kicked in.So while my head mouth is about to say yes, I went, no, actually I I can't do it because if I said yesterday, Thursday, I would have resented being there on that Thursday and I wouldn't have really been engaged and be tired.
And it felt really selfish.I felt, I felt like a bit of a Dick to say though, because I really wanted to help.Yeah.And that's a, that's a structural issue that we feel like if we're saying no to protect ourselves, that we're letting our colleagues down.And that's a structural issue within the industry whereby because for so long people have just been sucking it up and writing up their notes at home and doing the unpaid overtime and coming in late or whatever that looks like.
There is actually very good data to show that we're we can't fit it all in because in fact, the data tells us that we are fitting it all in.And therefore why would we need to have a different structure or more people or, you know, change the way we behave or set up our clinics.
So what happens is this this just continuing self fulfilling prophecy of you work more to try to help your colleagues, therefore never get extra help and they're all expected to do the same thing.So while we feel like we're letting our team down, in fact assertively and confidently, but nicely and constructively saying I don't think this is a sustainable work pattern, that's how we help our colleagues best.
I love that it's short term selfish to be long term generous because it's known now, because I still want to be here five years from now, right?As long as you're a constructive and you're seeing the perspective of the other people you work with and you're working with them to agree on solutions that work for you both, I think that that, you know, the younger generations have it right and we need to adapt or die.
Adapt or die.Exactly right.The word stuck.I think it is a very commonly said and commonly felt word in our profession, and I've said felt it myself.Your other talk was helping veterinarians discover that meaningful, fulfilling, balanced careers and lives is possible.
And that's pretty much in a nutshell why I started the Vet Vault to figure out if it is possible and if it is, how to achieve it.Now I've done well over 100 episodes and I'm still trying to figure it out.Yeah, I totally got the silver bullet.I I'll get it in the next 3 minutes. 40 minute talk.
Yeah, yeah.Absolutely so.I'm dying to know why do you say in a 40 minute talk again?Yeah, that talks about what do you what?Did you say in the tour, look, I think the 40 minutes I've got is not enough to do a full coaching program with somebody on their career development, obviously.
So in fact, the angle that I took in this particular session was very sounds really arrogant of me and I apologize in advance.I don't want to be one of those people who's like, hi, I'm a movie star.Therefore I can talk at a law students graduation ceremony on.
Here's some life advice.I don't have it all figured out.I am not miraculously awesome.But what I do have is a really fulfilling career.Working part time as a solo mum by choice, with enough money to not worry about my security but not enough to swindle it away with.
Enough time to walk my dog every day but not enough to watch crap on TVI have what I think is the perfect setup for me and I certainly didn't have that a while ago.So my talk realistically is about how you can move from feeling stuck.
Oh my God, is this my life for the next 40 years in 15 minute increments in the console room?That's.That feeling.Yeah, that is that.Yeah, I.Should this is the only thing I'm qualified to do?Yeah, I need the money.Yeah, but I I can't do this for the next 5 days, never mind the next 40 years.
And if you if you calculate how many more of those 15 minute consults you will have to do before you retire at 65, like that's the sort of stuff that makes you actually, you know, want to stab your eyeballs out with a pen.So how do you move from that to my career And my life choices are clearly not for everybody.
But what I do have is the absolute knowledge that even the moments where I'm like, I'm having a bit of a wobble, is this the right thing?Do I want to be here?I have the tools and the knowledge and the skills to go, that's fine.I can do something else and I can do it successfully and smoothly and safely without having to burn all my bridges and Oh my God, what have I done?
Because you know, we've got the tools to do it.And so yes, you know, if you're doing a career coaching program, we have a structure and we identify who you want to be before we identify what are you going to do with that?And we go into vet school as most of us are 17 year olds and we're expected to know who we want to be and what who we are as a human being.
And therefore whether or not this is the right career for us.And then ten years later, if that we're like, yeah, maybe 17 year old me wasn't as smart as I thought I was.Maybe.But what now I've I've sunk 10 years of my life into US.
Do I just opt out or this is who I am now?My parents will be disappointed.I need to support my kids.So how do we go from all of those feelings to actually I have an amazing foundation of a career that can allow me to do almost anything I want to do if I am brave enough to step outside of what society tells me are the traditional pathways forward.
So for example, right now there is a tendency to believe I can work in a clinic, I can go into government industry roles or I can leave the profession.Yeah, yeah, that sort of feels like the.That's, that's, you know, what are my choices?
Or even I can work full time or I could work part time if I was a mum.Those are the only two things in front of me.I can't work full part time just because I want to ride my horses.Who does that?That's not OK.That would be lazy.
Surely, You know, let's get to a point where we can go.In the 1910s or so, they came up with the structure of work that we now believe is the only way to do things.Have one job, Monday to Friday, and stick with it.
And it's not true.It's just not true anymore.There are so many opportunities in front of you to build the life you want.You've just got to know where to start and have the balls to give it a shot.Yeah, that that knowing what you actually want is that step one, like what is step one?
Where do you begin with this process?I'm I'm calling you Jess.I feel stuck.What?Step 1 for me.So step one is know who you are.Who are you as a person in terms of what brings you joy, what brings you peace?What causes you hell?What do you hate and desperately want to make sure that we have a weight in your lifestyle?
But equally, how do you want to describe yourself?You know, if you were to pick your top three words or your top three values, there's a whole bunch of different ways of doing this.But when I sit down and I do my annual one day to myself in a hotel room without my child and I not out what my year is going to be, I'm not asking myself what career am I going to take first?
That's the 12 questions.The first question is who do I want to be this year?And this year it's I want to be bold.I want to be someone who pushes the status quo, who is brave enough to try new things and who is somebody who people go, she's killing it.
And that is who I want to be this year and ongoing hopefully.But out of The Who I don't want to be, that's how I then start to go, OK, what do I want my life to look like?And this is a big mistake that people make as they decide what they want their career to be.
And then their life just has to default fit in around that.As opposed to what do I want my life to look like?What does that look like in terms of my family, where I want to live?Those sorts of questions.How much do I want to work?And then you choose which job.
Or here's a hint, plural jobs fit best into that rather than OK, well I want to change jobs because I'm not happy here.Here's another job that'll fix the problem, surely?But I think it's a fear thing.You said earlier that you need the bulls to do it.
So what's normally stopping you is fear.Because I know this thing.I studied for it, I'm well prepared for it.I've written all the exams to prove to the world that I can do it.And now I've got five years of experience in it and I'm well and truly entrenched in my rut.And I don't know what's outside that rut, but I know it's freaking scary.
And then having the courage to say, let me stick my head above the parapet to see what's out there.But we're so blessed in this career that you don't have to burn your bridges in order to succeed.You know, there's the story of the guy who discovered, I say with a lot of irony, the South America, you know, invasion, as it were.
And he gets there and there's all these locals and you know, they're threatening to slaughter you if you come on our beach.And rather than turning his boats around and going home, he burns all his boats so that his soldiers have no choice but to stay and fight because they've they've got no backwards trajectory.
And we have this tendency to believe, oh, I can't jump ship because oh, but what if and what if, what if it doesn't work?We are in this privileged career that you do not have to burn boats in order to try something different.My first step that I recommend to a lot of my clients who are feeling like how could I possibly change is don't change.
Just do something different.Half a day, a week, try something different.You can go low coming so that you can buy yourself two days a month to volunteer in something, to join a club in something you think might be your future interest, but you don't want to actually fully commit because you could be wrong like.
Yeah.And I think that that's so key and, and maybe it's just a temperament or it's the way that we're educated, but we want certainty.I was stuck for a long time.I knew that full time vetting was not what I wanted, but I wasn't certain what else I could do.
So I just did nothing.It took me a long time to start asking what did I like before I became a vet?What did I love doing at school?And then to say, well, let me try some of that out.And then the other thing that I was a big thing that I felt was, yes, I want to do this thing, but I will certainly to get paid for it.
So changing that to yes, but maybe not to start with, just try it out and maybe you find you don't like it.Maybe you liked it when you're 16 and now you don't.Great, now you know.But just open a few doors and start kicking a few rocks.
The only bad decision is no decision at all.If you stay where you are right now indefinitely, that fear you feel that this is your life for the next 40 years, That's, that's a real fear.Whereas is that fear really less bad than the fear of trying something and not being very good at it and then having to come back to this for a few months while you try something else?
Like how bad can it really be?So step one just to wrap that up is figure out what you want.Figure out who you are and then what do you want out of life?Take.Some time off.I do think that some people find that useful, but I also find that some people that's one of their big barriers because they they feel like that's the if that's the only way to move forward and they can't afford that financially or just coverage wise, then that can be a barrier to them taking any steps.
Which is why, Yep, absolutely.If you are in the space where you can go, I'm out.I'm taking some time for me to work out what I want from life.But I think other people, it's actually liberating to know that you don't have to.You can just take a day, a fortnight less work and start somewhere and start dabbling.
You know, my consulting business started as a dabbling side hustle, and now it's pretty threatening.Yeah.So I think, you know, you don't have to be out of the game in order to create a new game.Awesome.
Right.Your other talk, the choices we make for taking back the Paris professionals to be in control of our own resilience and our well-being.Does that sort of lead on from the other talk because what we've just talked about that's first foremost a decision, well, not this.
So what next?Yeah.Look, I have a really strong and all of my things always link together because it's what I'm passionate about.So the themes are pretty repetitive.When we sit in a mindset of the industry is broken and or my clinic doesn't look after me, we fail to notice that we are in control of a vast proportion of our enjoyment of the industry.
And that is the bad news and that is the good news.People tend to see it as bad news because it means actually you've got to do a bunch of work.Actually, you are responsible nobody.'S coming to save.You no.And don't get me wrong, I don't want to, you know, let off the hook all of the work that does need to be done to structurally change our industry and for many clinics the way that we approach our staff.
But you can't control those things.I think you should try to have an impact on those things.I was about to say those things should.Change.Yeah.Who's going to change it?Yeah.But the first step has to be what you can do right now to have more control over your well-being.And your fulfilment is control you.
And so the choices we make is all about how do you want to experience the veterinary industry and how much of that actually is all in your head?And that sounds really cliche.And people tend to, you know, kind of want to hate me when I say those things because they're like, oh, well, you're just blaming me for not being resilient enough or whatever those things are.
I am 100% a believer that you shouldn't be forced to be resilient.But I am also a believer that resilience is a muscle we can grow.Fulfillment is a choice that we can make.And that doesn't sit well with everybody.
But over the course of a 40 minute talk, I'm pretty sure I convinced everybody in the room that in fact, you have the power to decide what you take out of your career.Yep, fulfilment is a choice that you can make.Does that still involve saying, OK, well, maybe it's not going to happen in this environment?
Oh, look, absolutely.And, and one of the tools that we talk about in the session is something I call the four doors.And the four doors is effectively in any situation, big or small, you know, conflict with a colleague, argument with your spouse, you know, clinic that you work in, whatever that looks like, you've always got 4 doors.
You can fix the problem, which is you actually genuinely have to put your money where your mouth is, not just take the problem to your boss.And therefore I've done my part like you have to be like, I'm going to help you fix this.You can let go of the problem, which you can basically decide, look, this thing does annoy me, but it doesn't annoy me more than the effort required to fix it.
And so I think I'm just going to let that one go.But then you actually have to let it go.You can't just then be harbouring it and sitting in the lunchroom bitching about it like it's a choice you have to make to let it go.The third option is leave, walk away.
I don't love that option.You, you know, you bet you, you can leave your relationship, you can leave your clinic and yes, you can leave the industry.And I'm not saying that that should be your first choice.What I am saying it's that a better choice than the 4th door and the fourth door is what happens if you don't actively choose one of the others.
It's the default that you sit in this moral and ongoing quagmire of, you know, just not choosing and you're mulling things over and you're stewing on things and you're stressing about things.
You're not willing to fix it.You're not willing to let it go and you can't leave.So you're stuck.And that way, my friend, madness lies.That is where all of those little things where you've made or you've not made a decision.So you've accidentally ended up in the fourth door.
Those things weigh and weigh and weigh and weigh on you until you're actually miserable.And that is where, yeah, leaving the industry, it is better choice than sitting in that one that is just purgatory for vets.Yes, I know because I've been there.
Is it a personal growth thing where the default is actually to go well this sucks for me.We all spend moments there and we all spend time there.And sometimes we, you know, I tend to decide how big is the problem and I will give myself a certain amount of time to sit dwelling in my default door, which is I'm pissed off and somebody else should come and fix this problem.
And then I put on my big girl panties and I remember that I've got the other 3 doors in front of me.And that is my choice.That is in my control.I can sit here in this miserable ass mode, or I can choose something different.How much does mindfulness and self-awareness play a role in this?
Because I feel like a lot of us, and I'll put my hand up here, we get stuck in that fourth door without actually realizing it.We are just so stewing in that soup of misery that we think it's the norm.We can't pinpoint where it's actually coming from.I'm like, I'm fucking miserable but I don't know why.
Or I think I'm miserable because of X, but actually we're missing the true underlying cause and I'm not addressing it because I don't even know what it is.Like mindfulness, self-awareness is 100.There's literally what 40 minutes of my presentation is about, but I try not to push those words too much because people think it's all going to be a bit woo woo and stays, you know, we're scientifically minded, very evidence based people.
And as soon as we hear words like positive psychology and mindset, we kind of go, Oh yeah, whatever.OK, well I'm just going to stick with my.Such buzzwords that you do sort of switch it like.Exactly.I roll it switch off.But what I can guarantee to people, and again, very confident that I convinced 60 odd people in the room that it is based on science, there is absolutely empirical evidence peer reviewed a hundredfold over that this stuff works.
And this stuff has the difference the the potential to make the difference between you being fulfilled and engaged and joyful, professional and being what you might be right now, which is not those things.So Yep, some of it has some woo woo spin.
I try very hard to make it not sound like that.So what does it look like for you?So for me, a lot of, you know, the choices that we make and This is why I talk so much about it is, for example, one of my favorite ones is the, you know, the choosing how you want to interpret a situation.
So, you know, a good scenario is you're in a bank, your normal bank, you know, you go in there every Friday and then a bank robber comes in and shoots people.You're the only person gets shot.You get shot in the arm.My question to you becomes, are you lucky or are you unlucky?
And that is your choice.And people look at me like what?I didn't choose to get shot in the arm, whatever.But what you've got now is a choice to choose your counter story, right?You've got the choice to say, OK, I could have walked into any bank.I could have come here 10 minutes earlier.
I could have done these things.And why did it have to be me that was shot?This is miserable.I am an unlucky person.I got shot in this bank robbery.All you can choose your counter story of I was the only person who got shot.There are children here.
I only got shot in the arm and now I get a week off work.Those two things have the equal exact same scenario.But your choice of how you believe your reality is is what makes the difference on how you feel about it.
And So what we believe innately is that the situation controlled our mood and the situation decided how we should feel.Lucky, all unlucky, but it wasn't.It was always in your head.It was always your choice to make that decision.
And until we can start to recognize that, you know, if, if we want to live feeling positive, we have to choose to see things positively.And I don't mean toxic positivity.
I don't mean always putting on a brave face and smiling.I mean genuinely just deciding what makes me happier to believe the the scenario I love because it happened to me once when I was on the way to give a resilience talk.Was sitting at a set of traffic lights trying to turn left.
You know, it's peak hour and it clicks over like four sets of light changes before I get to the front.I finally get to the front and as I'm turning some guy cuts in front of me, takes the turn and I get a red light and I've got 2 choices now right?
I can sit there and go Oh my God he's such a jerk I can't believe he did that.And that is the mood I now feel.My Physiology is reacting to that.We all know what that feels like.But I take that to work with me and I apply that to the beginning of my work day.
I've also got the choice of going.He probably didn't know this was the turning lane.I've done that a bunch of times before.Anti magnanimous.I let him in.Or even better, maybe his wife was giving birth in the front seat and I just saved a baby's life.Like maybe I am a superhero and the reality is his day doesn't change no matter which I believe.
He doesn't get better or worse or get his comeuppance or whatever that looks like depending on what I believe.But my day substantially changes.And if I'm wrong, if he was a jerk and I chose to believe that I was really nice to somebody who just didn't know it was the turning lane, holy crap, I had a good day by accident.
What a pity.So it really comes down to committing to choosing how you want to experience your day.So how do you practice that muscle, that reflex, that neural pathway?
Because I read a lot about this stuff and I, I get it cerebrally and I'm all for it.But then something happens to me and I go into that bit of misery and I go, poor me.And sometimes it takes me a day to realize, oh shit, I've done that again.
But you're recognizing it.I mean, I please do not believe for a second that I practice this all day every day.I 100% get myself into a tears and sit in the fourth door.I 100% get irrationally angry at the person in front of me.
Who?Why can't you work out how to use the God damn self checkout?They've been around for a decade now.People like come on, I am just a human.I think the difference is I can recognise now when I'm doing it and then when I'm aware I'm doing it I can consciously make the choice.
Do you know what?I need to dwell on this a little longer because that's the mood I'm in right now.Because there's nothing wrong with wanting to dwell.There's nothing wrong with having a vent.You know, I went through some big traumas during the stage of, you know, doing IVF to have my child.
And I remember somebody said to me, like, you know, what can I do to cheer you up?And I'm like, dude, I don't want to be cheerful.Yeah, I'm wondering.I am grieving and I want to grieve and it is important step forward for me to grieve.
So again, this is how we really need to be clear about this isn't toxic positivity.Negative feelings happen.Negative feelings are fine, they're good for you.It's about being able to go.I'm recognizing what's happening and I'm making a conscious choice that this is the emotion I want to sit with for a while, but I'm not blaming the circumstance for that.
I am choosing this and that is OK because I can choose to leave this.So good.It's not easy, but it's.Beautiful.Oh gosh.Well, it's.Yeah.What's the term?It's not easy, but it's simple.Yes, exactly.Just I can speak to you for hours and hours and hours.
Thank you so much for sleeping.Before you disappear, I wanted to tell you about my weekly newsletter.I speak to so many interesting people and learn so many new things while making the clinical podcast.
So I thought I'd create a little summary each week of the stuff that stood out for me.We call it the Vet Vault 321 and it consists of three clinical pearls.These are three things that I've taken away from making the clinical podcast episodes, my light bulb moments, two other things.These could be quotes, links, movies, books, a podcast highlight, maybe even from my own podcast.
Anything that I've come across outside of clinical vetting that I think that you might find interesting.And then one thing to think about, which is usually something that I'm pondering this week and that I'd like you to ponder with me.If you'd like to get these in your inbox each week, then follow the newsletter link in the show description wherever you're listening.
It's free and I'd like to think it's useful.OK, we'll see you next time.

Dr. Jess Moore-Jones