July 4, 2019

#9: Getting comfortable with uncertainty. Dr Rob Webster

#9: Getting comfortable with uncertainty. Dr Rob Webster
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Season 1

Dr. Rob Webster is an emergency and critical care specialist and one of the founding members of Animal Emergency Australia, a group of emergency clinics in southeastern Queensland.  Outside of his clinical and leadership roles within the practice he has also trained and mentored large numbers of vets and vet nurses, inspiring them with his boundless energy and infectious enthusiasm. We pinned him down in his garden in far northern Queensland to see if we could extract some of that wisdom for our own good and yours, and he did not disappoint! We cover valuable ground, such as how he approaches challenges in the face of fear and uncertainty, despite feeling completely overwhelmed. He gives us his views on charting a career path, on whether to specialise or not. Rob even gives us a few study tips and tells us what he thinks one of the best things is that you can commit your time to, and on why you should always listen to your mother. Please join us in this fascinating conversation with Dr. Rob, and be inspired!

I even got some notes prepared for that.He would.Good evening.Ladies and gentlemen, this is Gerardo Poli. and this sorry one of the best bits of advice I've ever received was to find good mentors and to learn from them trusted people who have already done what you're trying to do.
Now.I've been fortunate throughout my career to have some fantastic mentors to help guide me, but I realized that they'd be hard to find and also hard to commit the time to 1.This is why we've gathered some of the best Minds from the veterinary world and squeeze them for their wisdom so that you don't have to learn the hard way.
With the help of our guests, we flipped the veterinary profession on its back and explore its soft underbelly to find the tips tools and inspiration that you'll need to build the career that you've always wanted.I'm Gerardo Poli.I'm Hubert him strapped and this is the vent valve.Dr. Rob Webster's an emergency and critical care specialist and one of the founding members of animal emergency Australia a group of emergency hospitals in Queensland and Western, Australia.
He's played a major role in the training and mentoring of large numbers of vets and vet nurses inspiring them with his Boundless Energy and infectious enthusiasm.We've been them down in his garden in Far Northern Queensland as evidenced by the constant background noise of all manner of parrot and lorikeets to see if we could extract some of that wisdom for our own good and for yours and he did not disappoint.
We covered some valuable ground such as how he approaches challenges in the face of fear and uncertainty despite feeling completely overwhelmed he gives This is views on charting a career path on whether to specialize or not and even gives us a few study tips.It tells us what he thinks one of the best things is that you can commit your time to and on why you should always listen to your mother.
So please join us in this fascinating conversation with dr.Rob and be inspired and I'm going to start with with my version of Rob.I'm a drug addict Are Congress to three years ago an Arab and what strikes you immediately read rub it is just general enthusiasm enthusiasm of never made anybody who's more enthusiastic about the veterinary profession just life in general and just that infectious enthusiasm when you can you talk to Rob and it immediately started telling me a couple of stories and interesting stories, but what I'd like to know Rob is your journey to becoming rub Webster her up with the 2018 moving from moving from yeah.
Traded led to a today just if you could give us a bit of a rundown of how it all happened.Yeah, thanks to you but and it's look it's a long story.So I'll try and have Bridget the things that I was lucky enough to find in my in my career that have really made it fulfilling for me was first of all emergency medicine.
I I walked into that one.Not not really expecting it.I graduated from University.Just wanting to do a gdv and from there, you know, after a couple of years.I've done a few and the enthusiasm never wanes for those sorts of big.
Gary cases and try to make a real difference to patients that go home.So finding emergency medicine was the first thing the second thing was being able to develop expertise in that in that field that are really thrive on so I was able to work with a group of Specialists and then sit membership and eventually fellowship and being able to understand exactly why I do what I do physiologically has really giving me confidence and helped me really feel that I'm learning and making a difference in that field and finally business ownership and I was trying to think why business ownership has been so important for me and I really think it comes down to the degree of challenge, you know, you never get good at it.
You know, what what something goes well today tomorrow you go two steps backwards and there's a new challenge that you never expected.And it's an absolute roller coaster, but because of that you get challenged every single day every single week and so you can never become bored and you can never Master it and I think those three things have have come together to make my career.
Yeah, personally really fulfilling so far our jump straight into physiologically why you do it be happy to share.What why did you do it yet?Now that's two levels what I meant by physiologically, why do it is, you know, I did emergency medicine for several years.
And you know, I knew exactly what to do, you know for gdv surgery.There's a recipe right?Use patient comes in you reefs us them didn't some fluids put a stomach tube down them.But when I learnt what I mean by physiologically is when I got into Solo's ship training and actually studied the physiology of the body systems and went back to those lectures that I was monkey in the wood or sleeping through a university, you know the how the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system works how cardiac physiology Works our respiratory physiology work and actually realizing you know why I did those interventions, you know, I'm going to give this patient throughs amide for its diuretic effect, and it's bronchodilator effect and all of those sorts of things and it really helps remove some of the uncertainty E in the worried that I was doing either too much or too little for each patient.
Okay.And so so that's I meant physiologically for the for the patient home or something myself.Okay.So safely so psychologically wait, why do you do?Why did you do vet?Why do you do that?What motivates you yeah.Well I started I got the idea of doing that my mum one day pulled out in grade 10 said look you can do There are three things.
I think you could look at doing in University one is forestry one is Agricultural Science and one is vet science.And she's like, I don't think you're going to get the marks to get into vet.So I think you should really look a tag and of course, I'd like to know stuff you Mum doing that.
But when I really think about it it already foot the the idea had already formed.I'm sitting at home now in the in the house, I grew up in I bought it and it's really important.And to live here, but I remember seeing my first dog that I bonded with Teague die of heartworm disease here in the in the front yard where I'm sitting and I think it was actually the powerful impression that left on me of kind of suffering that when mum presented those three different career options.
That was really the only one I ever thought about you you mentioned there or if you were brought up that physiologically but You use sometimes referred to this the the term the buzz and when you said physiologically I my my it's dick first was to actually think of the buzz associated with emergency.
Is that is that something I would like is that something you can explain to us?What the buzz means for you?Yeah that absolutely and I think that's I understand.That's what Hubert was was getting at when he asked the question and it was something and I think I'll go back to Experiencing 50th that science as a student.
I was all set to go and be a cow vet, you know in vet school doing large animal medicine was always cool.Well it was it uq, you know, you had to wear your boots and listen to country music and and you know, grinding cows feet with the angle grinder if that was where it was at and I had to do but you had to do this two nights in the emergency center and it was a little Emergency Center in Bowen Hills and I walked in I was late, I wasn't really that excited about it and I met up with a young young vet was a bit of a show-off and his name is Simon them in is working that night and we saw all I might be sort of pericardial effusion gdv and a dog with dilated cardiomyopathy and I remember these cases run it coming in needing to do a you know, a really Important intervention in each of those three cases to keep them alive and the sense of urgency the you know, the big decision making the risk taking all those things appealed to me and I stayed the whole shift slept through the next day of University classes.
And that was it for me.That's when I realized that there was there was no other career path and it's something about that little I think this is a job for Adrenaline Junkies.See medicine.I see Gerardo and and humors you as well interviewing me and you're all your both people that kind of want to want to challenge yourselves.
And I think that's what the buzz is in emergency medicine is no matter what the situation you're always throwing down the gauntlet and you know and trying to to try to rise to the occasion you're trying to do something difficult every single day and I think that's what keeps me coming back for more.
That's a that that first shift.Well that that story you just tell David that could put a lot of people off at complete.It's just too selfish.I must admit you you've been you include me in this group of people who thrive on that but it took me a long time.
I think if I was a winner was a new grad if I had a shift like that who I thought would have taken me months to recover.In the fro it do you think your retraction or ability to cope with that is that an inherent personality traits or do you have to have thought process or do you have tricks and tips of how to deal with a stressful situation like that how to deal with with the My Crazy major situation and the fear and the self-doubt or do you just do it naturally?
There's got to be a natural.There's gonna be some natural aptitude.You know, there's something about me that when I'm faced with a difficult situation.I have an urge to master it and get better at it and and apart at it as well as ever don't have a high regard for rules, and I'm a bit of a risk taker and I think I think those those kind of elements of personality.
That's something that I see. across the lot of the colleagues that I work with that thrive in emergency because in emergency you do have to be prepared to make a decision with without a lot of information and sometimes where there is no no rules and my mentor Professor Steve Haskins used to always say when death is the alternative there are no rule and that was you know, and he's one of the founding fathers of this of this discipline and and what he said, Is completely true.
So there's definitely some that natural aptitude.But what I what I discovered in about fourth year of University against my mum, I feel a bit little bit odd to be talking about my mom all the time, but they're very wise mothers and she had been telling me since I was a little kid you get out of things what you put into them and I didn't really realize that until about fourth year university when I realized that I wanted to become a vet and I needed to put in Hell of a lot of effort to do that.
And since that time what I've done is every time I'm faced with a challenge is I try and hit it with a hundred percent effort and I think throwing yourself into the challenge is what gives you the Fulfillment when you when you on that journey through the through the difficult time knowing that you're trying hard and you're not holding anything back and and that's what the way I try to deal with emergencies and shifts and careers in.
Emergency because just seeing you like throwing yourself into the challenge.Is that there?Is there a particular way that you view a challenge or an obstacle instead of sort of I don't know being overwhelmed by them or something like that.If you asked me a year ago, I couldn't have put this into into words, but you know, I've always I've always felt intense satisfaction in being able to do really hard stuff and what I realized after doing a little bit of reading about stoicism and specifically very simple book to read but very profound was the obstacle is the way with Ryan holiday this year. but the way of looking at those actual obstacles of the as the things that the things that make you the things that you know, if you're building your career the things that are hardest to deal with other things that you know, that that actually build the foundations of that career and I wouldn't have been able to put that into words a year ago, but it always it always struck me that the things that were the hardest for me to do the fit whether things that I Got their start and some of those things have been surgery mechanical ventilation in the veterinary field.
But as simple as I did a year full time in the Army and I was hopeless at the started climbing ropes couldn't climb ropes at all.Hmm knew that I had to climb ropes to do it.So I went out the back of the of the accommodation block every afternoon put my pack on so I was carrying an extra 10 kilos and practice climbing ropes and You know at the end of the time in that in that training platoon, I was the best in the platoon at climbing ropes.
And I guess that's what I mean by throwing yourself into those challenges wholeheartedly but also, you know at some level recognizing that the very things that seem impossible other things that the things that you remember the things that you make a different that make a difference and the things that you know, our guest foundations to who you are in the long run just you just keep trying.
What do you what do you think would be Another first point the most important thing that you do that you you do when it comes to actually tackling a large big project was as a Visionary of the company you you're tasked with some look into the future and trying to direct and guide the direction of an emergency service or an emergency Australia.
How do you you know, you have this Grand idea, but then what would how?How would you order advice would you offer listeners on how to tackle large projects or large challenges or seemingly impossible things the first the first rule comes flippantly into my brain.
It's from one of those emergency medicine 101 checklist.It's like take your own pulsed Don't Panic clean your face with something.That looks looks overwhelming because because it's not And then remember that you know, if you accomplish, you know 1% of something every day, which seems like a very small amount.
It's only going to take you a hundred days to do it.So, you know take your own pulse and break things down to very small very small steps right Claire sharp associate professor at all.
She probably School Professor now Murdock uni in emergency medicine had had This conversation with me.She's an extremely high achiever and we talked about really big goals.And and she said, you know really true think about that Big Goal when it comes down to what you do every day.
Just think about the small things that you're doing that will help you achieve that goal.You know, she's a teacher and a mentor and a lecturer and so every day she's thinking about conducting herself in the in the way.
Best best fits those attributes, you know when she's having a seat a conversation with a Veterinary student.She's going to be trying to put the most you can into teaching that individual person and it is those tiny little elements that build the bigger picture repeated over hundreds and hundreds of days.
So you think it's something like I don't know and I've read this numerous times before it's like you focus on them on the process, but not the outcome the outcomes there.You know what the outcome is, but if you focus on the process and focused on taking small little steps, obviously the steps in the process and focusing on those one at a time.
Then you don't feel overwhelmed.You don't get daunted by the project which maybe you know, climbing a thousand steps or building a building or something like that or Starting an emergency hospital or something climbing a rope in the Army Mmm Yeah.
Well in the basket climbing the rope in the Army in the end climbing climbing the rope in the Army is quite easy because you can actually see the top of the Rope right and you can you can just find when you're up there, you know, you can touch the bar and then you then you get down right that's pretty easy.But the problem with life in general and and veterinary science is you can't see the top of that bar so you don't actually know.
You know, you set these ideas for yourself and these dreams but but in in working towards them they often they often change and they're often similar to what you you thought about at the start but sometimes they're totally unrecognizable, you know, and I think that's you know, you don't you don't live that achievement, you know you and the Rope is bad because it's really uncomfortable climbing the Rope, right?
But you spend a fair bit of time.The rope and one split-second touching the bar.Yeah, and then what you do you could climb the damn rope again and so in in veterinary medicine, especially, you know like that achieving Fellowship me about five years of the training program two years of study and there was intense fulfillment when I when I got open the letter that said I'd pass lasted for about two to three hours.
That I still remember right?You still when you want to feel incredible.I don't take myself back to that morning opening the envelope with with Julia the the woman who are unfortunate enough to marry.We opened it together and set up a store at the night.
I still get butterflies in the tummy thinking about that.But but the absolute fulfillment of that of that process was those years of study the work put into publishing page.Because and the incredible feeling of walking into the exam and trying to write, you know constantly for four hours to get enough marks to pass.
You know, it it's absolutely the process rather than the outcome that that makes that makes or breaks things and I don't read a book by read Elio already has principles recently and there's a thing that he says repeatedly in that book.
I read areas of very Very successful investor one of the wealthiest men in the world and he says reaching your goals gives you very little satisfaction.He says achieving success gives you nothing.He said it's about struggling well to quote him resist struggling.
Well is that is the secret to happiness in life is his life is going to be a struggle accept it and do it.Well, and then that's that's the that's the secret day and it sounds pretty much exactly like what like what you saying?So when you climb that rope you may as well try and enjoy Getting to the top because getting to the top is going to be disappointing.
Yeah.Yeah.Well, isn't it that you think about it when you climb the rope?And then what do you do?You try and climb a longer rope?Yeah know exactly how and at what we don't realize.Yeah until you sit down and reflect upon it is actually the bloody climbing.
The Rope is the Fulfillment.Yeah.Yeah, absolutely.I'm going to go back to the start of your career again talking about struggles and things that that were difficult with the things at the start of your career that challenged you more than you anticipated things that things that surprised you how hard they were.
Yeah, there were I remember the I won't go through the whole of my first day as a veterinarian because it was a long day.It was that They now is long.But I remember I drove out of the practice on an absolute high drive a couple hundred meters down the road and they had to stop the car and vomit out of the door because of the delayed the delayed Cortisone and Adrenaline Rush that I've been putting off all day and and and that really defined the first few years of my career is that there be intense Highs but then you started to realize you know that we're where I started to realize where I I made errors when I'm trying to effect and that would make you sick and that the biggest challenge for me is of that is dealing with the uncertainty and I wish I could say that that goes away in time.
But I think you just get better at dealing with it.The the low point was one night.It was about 1:00 a.m.In the morning.There was only one nurse and me and the practice and I had an undiagnosed patient out in the in the emergency room and I sat down in the staff room with the Five-minute that consult and if you know in those days, it was a textbook.
I'm sure no one reads a text book anymore.But it's it's got it, you know, it's got a condition on every page and it's about that thick but I started that I and I started leafing through this book and I thought this dog could have any condition in this book how the hell am I ever going to make a diagnosis?
Yeah, and and that you kind of think you think in those early years.That as you learn more and as you put into place different strategies to diagnose that you'll get rid of that uncertainty and you'll know you'll feel like you know what you're doing but that hasn't hasn't been my experience.
What I've found is that the problems that the problems just get more and more difficult, you know, the diagnosing the intestinal foreign body might become a little bit easier, but there's another problem that you have to deal with and so in veterinary medicine And you always working with uncertainty and you're always working with self-doubt and being able to recognize that and deal with that has been key to me feeling like I am, you know, sorry key to me enjoying working in the in the field because I can now, you know, try and understand when I when I've made clinical areas, but also understand that that's an absolutely human.
A human trait and we're always going to have values in treatment failures and diagnosis values and client communication.There's absolutely no way around that and you got to live with them learn from them, but not let them not let them knock you down because otherwise it's going to be a horrible situation, you know, horrible situation you're working in if you set yourself up for Perfection may be part of it.
There's it's It's an impossible task and and recognizing that doubt and uncertainty and being able to work with it is probably the was a major turning point for me.Yeah, I think that's very valuable.I had a lecturer at Uni who we touched on this point and I think so one of the students asked him.
How how do you deal with that?And he said look if you if you've done your best you've really tried your hardest you can go to bed at night and and fall asleep without feeling guilty about but willfully doing something wrong.He said then you didn't you doing well and I often have to tell myself that as well to go.
Look you tried your best.Just just let it go.Whoa.That's a great friend of mine Caitlin Logan heard it from her professor in a very similar way actually.No, it was her first boss.I she had an intestinal anastomosis breakdown and she was crying about it.
How do you said it's called a complication?What makes you so special that you're not going to get complications, you know, this is part and parcel of doing the work and and she said that that made a big difference for her.She realized, you know complications occur through error, but error is inevitable you're talking before and in this poses just reflecting upon you what you were saying there about perfection and complications and things with What about the thought I suppose?
For me, I like to strive for Perfection because it feels like as if I given as much as I can to a particular task or something like that having said that I'd know that I probably get about 80 or 90% of what I actually wanted to get done done because I know that the other 10% will take me three times longer than what the 80% did or talk and then the actual impact of that extra 10% may actually not have any impact at all apart.
For making me feel like as if I perfected something but but the idea of perfection but then being okay with it not being perfect somewhat, but ultimately being okay that you can fail and being okay with failure.
Is is probably more powerful as opposed to as not aiming for Perfection and being scared to fail.Why I I agree and I closed a little bit the way I put that because my yeah my intent is to do the very best that I can but you you as you say you've got to understand when you don't when you don't make it that that is you know, that is not don't let that 10% Define you hmm going back to what you were saying before Rob.
About struggling well land and you can't see the futurists and like I totally agree that we were talking about as as a veterinarian or as a Veterinary student.I had my career all planned out and actually was working in a practice which had small he's in cattle and no horses and that was the practice that I wanted to work out and I visualized myself kind of driving around roll.
And grilled Green Hills doing Dairy calls and and Cattle Calls and then coming back and doing small.He's and that was that was my vision of my career.So you better to be James Herriot.Basically, I you know, I didn't read any of his guys.
So although through UT people are like you should read his books and I was just like who is this guy?And I really did when I finished when I was three damn urgency and I was like, okay I could see why I should have read that book.So then but then I found myself in Small Animal Practice.And then I found myself after that in emergency and then my career in emergency and things to you and give me the space to room and grow they as taking me down different different Pathways, but I totally agreed there that it will change and it totally does change.
What do you think I suppose would be the the key ingredient there knowing now I suppose having heard that advice and from numerous people that you're as Veterinary students your future is not certain and it will change will like what what advice do you feel that you actually provide a student with that in mind now?
Geez, that's that's difficult Gerardo because I realized I getting in here you got such a chance of two things one of preaching to people and the other one of hypocrisy right?Because I've made so many stuff ups and I'm sitting here this morning feeling, you know, looking back on the on the 17 years and thinking geez that so far so good.
Whereas the other night on on you.New Year's Eve.I think I made an error of diagnosis on a patient and felt um, you know felt down in the dumps and like, you know, what do I do?And so the advice I guess he advice is fraught with difficulty, but that is just don't don't give up, you know.
That that sounds really simplistic.But you know, there's there's not you know, there's so many things that you can you can do in life.But as Hubert said before they're all going to be struggles.
So so there's actually it's a complete myth that there's some easy way out there and the more you put into something the more you'll get out of it and that's been my Experiencing a veterinary medicine is you keep trying you develop a an area of expertise and and don't give up on the really difficult days.
Yeah the what it what do you think?I could I cause Dorados thinking they sorry.Oh, yeah.It's painful for him because he's an emergency that but I've come to the feeling that that Really?
Yeah, I get I I cannot-- I get asked all the time.What do you do next?We're going to be what your plans for 5 years and 10 years and the people I thought I'd coach and it's about setting goals and having the clarity around moving forward and I feel that Clarity is really important.
But then at the same time, I feel that you have to be malleable.You have to be open to change open to your pathway changing and changing according to Is sort of how you feel and and and what you know, what opportunities and doors open from from as you learn as you grow you develop skills open doors open that you never thought could open.
So ultimately I might I'm my perspective at this stage.Is that having values or ways that you want to be yourself in everyday life, whatever that is, right and then working towards a couple key goals, which don't always have to be professional. they could be financially based you want to provide support for your family want to travel the world or something and then being open to where this career because it can change a lot being open to where it leads and and not being sort of so rigid as to the the picture of what you thought it would be because it just changes all the time and you yourself as you grow and as you learn and you become more confident with things will take on different challenges that I feel that as As to provide the advice any advice or provide to their students is really just to have something to start with just just focus on you know, if you like a small he's or small is than just focusing on getting into in the small leaves and then have your particular.
Focus on just being the best person you can be for that and if it changes it changes if you find you don't like small each one you large he's and go to a large.He's like like so I've kind of let go of the whole planning more than maybe two years in advance.
Now.I know what I want in life.But I totally feel the pathway can change which ever way you can and will change and once I've accepted that I actually feel a lot more comfortable stepping into that unknown uncertainty because that's where don't new doors will be found and and doors will be open.
So I don't know that's my current my kind of thought of the moment of it.Absolutely.I think that there is and we want to discuss it is is that feeling that we did a bit of research I've been to prepare for this podcast to find out what what people are worried about what Young weights and which students are concerned about and there's a very much concern and I can remember the same.
So you get that degree you get to the top of the of the first rope and then they're now what and they and they look at their role models and they look at people such as yourself or Gerardo and And you feel a how the hell am I ever going to get there?Because that's so far away.
And I think he said we're trying to get to his do you choose that path?Is that it?Is that a preset goal to drop Webster the student have any of this in mind when he started working or is it just how how do you how do you set that bathroom?
How do you go to start on that journey, and you know now I like II again, Want to avoid hypocrisy or or also giving advice to a vet student now, which is the advice that I'd give to myself because you know, we we have jurado's talked about the path changing.
I've talked about the behavioral aspects that Claire sharp board up with me is that you know be that person that is the expert lecturer be that person.That's the CEO of the very successful business and he answers prayer.Isn't themselves but you know when I graduated in 2001, I sat down on the 2nd of May.
Sorry, I'll go back to that first year.I graduated from University with a with a strong motivation to to make some money because my parents had fought about it was only things my parents thought about when I was growing up was a lot of money to that we had none and so I had this idea is never Even manifest itself while I was a vet student.
I just did the best I could from fourth year on from first to third year complete drunken blur can't remember it.But but fourth and fifth year, I worked hard as a vet student, but I graduated and felt that right.Now my responsibility was to make some money and it took me two months to realize that you don't make money earning a salary and spending it all and I read a lot of books after that the Rich Dad Poor Dad.
Series and seven habits of highly effective people.I think with the two major groups that are read at that time and I then sat down in up to six months after graduation and wrote a set of goals and I wrote down 5 year goals.
Can you goals and twenty year goals and although we're talking now about don't set your pathway completely just about every one of the goals that I set on that day back in June 2001.Time through you know, and and the five-year goals were simple ones.
I said I would like to get my membership in this field already knew I loved the field 10 you goals were more nefarious.But I knew that if I was going to accumulate any any finances at that stage, I'd need to own a business.
So I'd need to buy property and so I wrote down that I wanted to own property and own a business and have I think I wrote down two million dollars of capital because I'm back home.Elated that that amount would enable me to retire and then I had no idea but I thought maybe some stage I'd want kids and so I wrote down that in 15 years.
I'd like to be living with jewels where I choose with children and you know, and and at that stage I thought if I couldn't become a specialist vet.I might become a human medicine doctor and so I said either a specialist better a doctor and I wrote those goals down put them in the In the filing cabinet and it was only a couple of years ago that I pulled them out and they the ones that had gelled with me the ones that had that were important in my future had all had all happened and I think it was, you know, the power of the power of psychology they talk about, you know, didn't have to look at them again to know they were there but, you know, even though we're not talking about setting things in place for the long term the power of writing. down what I wanted back in 2001 Really?
Child, I guess there was always something that I was working towards.Yeah, and now, you know what I want though, you know that's changed completely like when I wrote those goals, I thought best thing would be to retire when you're 40 now realize that you retire when you're 40, you got nothing left.
You know, what are you going to do?You know six months might be great to go traveling 12 months might be great to go to over and five years might be great to go traveling, but the actual thing that gives you fulfillment and makes you feel Arms, like you are doing something worthwhile that that's that's awful thing called work that you show up to every day, you know, and so and so now I'm like I got no intention of ever really retiring.
It's just changing the see soup of what's what's what's freaking fulfillment of the time.So yeah long rambling talk, but don't be afraid to set some goals.If you need to move towards something.I think what it's what's your address it as you've got to pick a girl you got you need to move forward so big something to move towards and then but keep your mind open as to where which direction that Journey takes think would be over maybe a nice way of summarizing majority agree.
Mmm Yeah.No, it's really good II just feel pretty I feel that people especially students because I get asked this all the time.I kind of want to know what they should do and It's and it that varies you can't really answer that because they have different interests.
I have different strengths.They have different areas with gel with them more than other areas and essentially what like, you know, like they should have goals exactly what Rob saying is these kind of life goals, but then what I feel is that they're Korea, especially veterinary science can be can just go different ways whichever way they really want it to go that If they get to fixed on on on a particular pathway, you can actually be quite constraining or they might unless the particular pathway is the key to their actual long-term goal, but I feel that it's got to pick something especially when they're when they're heading out when they were when you're about to graduate just pick a job find and I don't just pick any job.
We got a set of criteria to look for there, but just have somewhere to go and just start just start and then be no To where it goes and just as long as that pathway the whichever path where you take lead you towards the goals that you have the larger goals in life.Then that's you know, that's the simplest and easiest advice would be to start somewhere.
Yep you but I was going to ask Rob some questions about our fellowship study and stuff like that.Did you have anything in mind for that?No you go ahead please mate.For those that are interested in you're considering doing specialty.
What what what major what helped you in terms of your decision making process towards taking the plunge and actually deciding bam.I'm going to do this.I'm going to dedicate five years seven years to do heading down this pathway.Was there anything that kind of helped you out there or is it still a start the process and roll with it?
What was your thoughts there?It was it was for me.It was really just a Next Step becoming more expert in the field that I chose.You know, I loved emergency medicine and I wanted to do it better and better that was you know that our and after membership the opportunity to do a training program came up.
It was quite a difficult training program and I'll be forever grateful to dr.Kerry King four.Bring it up with Professor Steve Haskins where Steve came over and told us for three to four months at a time.But really there was two two sides to the decision one was just the pure opportunity to get better at something that I love doing, but the other was the business decision because I started my fellowship after we bought the first practice the animal emergency service between Simon and myself and I knew Ooh that in the long-term.
If we were truly going to create the future of emergency medicine and critical care.We had to have a specialist and I thought well, I better go and learn this in become a specialist.So so they were the two sides to the decision one being a business decision and one being a just a kind of a thirst for knowledge.
And how did you like it?Did you have any Together things that helped you with regards to when you were studying like, you know, like you would have spent years and years of study on use it so you would have spent years and years of time studying sure that you would have kind of fine tune that process and and figured out I suppose some of the more powerful tools or tips that that helped you with.
Yes.She's so my my one study tip will show it which I say A i nauseam came from my experience of that student where I didn't know a great deal as a vet student.And so a lot of the reason I asked my exams came down to exam technique.
And so what I do is in swat back, I just do all of the past exams and it was only during Fellowship that I realized.What a powerful technique that was because answering questions practices getting you in the mindset for sitting in exam.
Summary notes doesn't get Into the mindset for sitting in exam reading papers doesn't get you in the mindset to sitting exam.None of those things practice the display of knowledge and thought and doing that is the most powerful thing I've ever found.
So what I would do so I had to summarize a paper I'd read the paper and then I would imagine the sort of exam questions that would come out of that paper.It didn't didn't matter if they were, you know, totally irrelevant would never be used in the exam.
Yeah, but then I'd sit down and I'd I'd write answers to those questions that are formulated in my head.And so the during the training progress.Oh process I did a lot of training and a lot of question and answer with Steve Haskins and the and the training group, but I sat down for five months of swap back before the exams and read and answered questions for those 5 months.
And and that's what got me through was that when I when I sat down With the exam papers, they'll for our exam papers.I had calluses all over my fingers from writing so much because I'd be I'd been doing nothing but practicing writing exams for 4 months.
We had sent me in good Stead.Wow, that's cool.Grab my head.I had a question on the list here that I think will maybe maybe tie in with us.The question is what have you spent time and money money on during a career.That's been the most worthwhile was it that it sounds like it was the specializing or was there something else that that you that you would put a foot ahead of that?
Not the best.Paul Ryan loves my career Tom and I decided to get off the couch and do physical training.So there's if I really had to I and sometimes I'd be late for the tutorials when we were doing the study and I would you mind I would think well if I didn't go to them if I didn't find the gym, I was going to kill myself, you know, I used to be so not not literally, but I was going to die from heart attack or Obesity, you know I didn't use to pay attention to diet and I didn't see the need for physical exercise and now I do it every single day and I'm sure that that investment given me more than anything else that I've done in my career is really what good exercise to do weight training because weight training is something that can be done.
They quickly and it's still the exact Challenge and and I do it in the mornings now and I love the it gives me a hell of a lot of confidence going into the day knowing that I've already challenged myself with something that's almost important like almost impossible for me.
You know, that that's the thing about white says no point lifting weights that you can lift.You've always got to lift a weight that you that you can't lift and you always find it you can do it, you know.Oh so you can go into every day with a little bit more confidence.But the actual type of training has changed a lot.
You know, I sometimes in the past I've done running Dorado and myself and a colleague.Dr. Alex Hines did the kokoda challenge a hundred k run two years ago and and that that took a hell of a lot of preparation, but it was all the same thing.
It's you know, helping you helping your body perform more and there are there are definite links between Physical performance and and mental and psychological Fitness and I every every year I see more of that rather than less of that hmm.
We often forget about those things that are that we do outside which Impact is greatly in our careers.We always think about the things we can do with regards to learning and study and so forth, but it's part of the whole whole body well-being and or or just just you know, it's mind and body.
What was your thoughts around having like a because I'm Alex talks about this as well, and she and she likes the idea of having one.Physical challenge one overwhelming physical challenge per year to keep you have a goal for yourself or something that's going to make you strive to push harder or something like that.
You know, like for me I would just train and train multiple times a day multiple times a week, but then one when I heard this concept of especially when we ran the code a challenge that was just an incredibly painful feet, but then it really highlighted to me.
Me that actually having this the idea of this one challenge who year would could actually be the motivational the inspiration to to keep training.But what do you think that?II like it, but I think it'll it'll vary the challenge that you that you choose.
No, it's important always to have a challenge.So, you know at the moment I'm checking out training with what with weights and just two of the challenges that I'm I'm working on one is to you know to get up to doing 20 loaded dips.
And another one is doing a hundred burpees in a row in less than a day.Minutes, you know, they they're like they're smaller challenges than the kokoda right?But in your mind, you're always challenging yourself and I think I think that that that continually trying to do better than you did yesterday is really important.
Yeah, and I think a big goal like a coda can focus you but it should be completely honest.I'm scared of doing that goal every year, you know, that's that was huge.And I think when it comes to round, it's really valuable.Mmm-hmm hundred like a hundred burpees in a row 98 minutes.
That's that's a challenge.I will take months and months to get to that point.So it sounds like it's only eight minutes of pain but that's an eight-minute that's eight months of training and whatever and stuff to get to that point.So depending on what your study that so sure about the logic of this. for excessively around really good at suffering, especially he takes That's the description of my training really is suffering.
Well, it's I love it.There's a distinct questions at the moment.No.No, I thought you would you would give you think there's any other areas that we should explore with regards to Rob's Fellowship training.
So we talked about you know, how he studied we talked about kind of his his decision-making process in terms of electing to That you know, it was it was based on on wanting to become an expert and also was one of the Stepping Stones with regards to progressing in his long-term goals.
We also talked about sort of how exercise and things was really important for him.What else what other areas tricking me explodes because if we this is purely from a from a personal curiosity thing, but I think I've tested with her up with for so the decision to specialize it's something that that I've considered in the in the in the in the past but yet very to find reasons to do it.
I suppose my question is is it worth it is it with is it worthwhile or is it always worthwhile?Because my reasoning I'll often get stuck in a in a thought loop with it to go.Yeah, it would be great to know more and it's as you say to be at the Pinnacle of of your field is that Would be that would be a lovely thing but then but then again I look at the impact that it will have on your personal life and the time sacrifice the time that you could spend on on every day moving forward and I thought I had up to now I haven't been able to justify to go.
I'd not sure if the investment of time is going to pay off and I don't mean just financially I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that.I definitely agree with you who but it's It's not a necessary stepping stone in everyone's career.
And sometimes it's sometimes I'm sure it doesn't work out for people the way they envisage at the start for me.It was really above all the business decision, you know, we started that business and we were we Simon and I said what's our vision we're going to create the future of emergency medicine Critical Care.
And you just can't do that without being without having expertise in their field.And so it was absolutely aligned with our goals.But what I have seen from other colleagues that have done Fellowship training is and and the things that I can tell you that it's not one.
It's not the ticket to free financial future.You know, it's there are there are much better ways to improve your remuneration.As a veterinarian rather than doing doing a fellowship training program and that that would be my first point is that if you go into Fellowship training expecting that it is going to be the last difficult thing that you do.
It's a complete misconception.Once you grip finish as a specialist exactly the same pressures will apply to you that apply to you before you do the specialty.You'll still have pressure for your time you still have pressure on Veterinary productivity and if anything the demands from your employer again increase and so it's if your primary interest or a motivation is remuneration and say Financial Freedom go and read about business going to read about investment and educate educate yourself in along those lines, you know, you need to improve in a very simple statement you need to if Financial reward is what you're after you need to increase the level of service that you offer and one of those things might be might be becoming a specialist.
But if you imagine, you know, if you become a specialist you can only serve as so many clients if you own a three vet general practice and you can offer a hell of a lot more service to clients and you can as a single specialist so you know that there it's not the greatest Pathway to financial reward.
And the other thing is It's not if you're a vet that does overnight shifts and you say in my own field emergency medicine and you go away to do a emergency medicine and critical care residency thinking that you'll get to work during the day and it'll be much easier.
That's just not the case, you know work is going to get harder not easier.So those are the thing that Fellowship is not yeah.Hmm, it's not.Doesn't make it any easier and it's not going to be the Best Way Forward financially either as you said before the start of the podcast that the challenges that you face the kind of matching the challenges that well sorry, they kind of match the skills and the knowledge that you have.
So it's they agree that that sometimes knowing more stuff more knowledge is is useful and powerful and and helps you feel confident and comfortable but then then you were tasked with dealing with the management of that you use the example of a intestinal perforation like sort of foreign body surgery a veterinarian can do that foreign body surgery and then it breaks down then you're tasked with the management of a septic patient and then your task with the management of a septic patient that's in refractory hypertension.
That is you know in the process of suddenly checking out.So the challenge is that you be tasked with with the knowledge that you have will be greater as well as opposed to and that's I suppose that's the reason why you do it and and and it's probably the the the the outcome of of learning more and be more capable as that you are tasked with with more challenging in difficult situations.
Yeah, you're right.I especially as a young with you.I always imagined that the more you see the more you study the easy at all get it because you'll know everything and then the but the longer in the game the more you realize that that's a that's never going to happen.
There's no such thing as knowing everything and being capable in every situation.Yeah.All right.We should we start with a few of the shorter questions.You only got one he met.Yeah, we've just talked about books or I You mentioned the obstacle is the way it's a great book.
If you got any other winners in the anything else that that I need to read.I was thinking about the book.So I just love reading and I do it everything from just relaxing which is the the simple page Turners.Yeah to really looking at lessons for life.
And and really I've read a lot of self improvement over the years and I go back to Stephen covey's.Seven Habits of Highly Effective People I think it is.Is that embodied for me the set seven ways to think about what you're doing that makes it much more.
You know, it helps you line up what you're doing with those goals that you set for yourself and I found that book very profound and I still remember the seven habits off my heart don't always apply them.But but definitely remember them.And you know when we're talking about finances the that other series that I read right at the start was Napoleon Hill Think and Grow Rich, which I didn't really understand and the Rich Dad Poor Dad series, but I think I want to stress to anyone that still listening now.
I read those books in about 2001 and we bought a vet practice in 2005.So, you know, you apply you read things.And they give you a bit of a pathway, but you're not going to go and set it all in motion and make it happen.
Right then, you know things take take a lot of time and you know, all you can do is you make those incremental improvements each day to get you to that goal.So so don't expect things to happen overnight because nothing does yeah, absolutely.
Alrighty favorite quotes and then put that on your list there you've mentioned Majored wanted to really I like your I've heard you won before about when death is the alternative.They are no rules.Have you got any other ones that said that help you through the day?
Yeah, I what I do.I don't I don't know if they helped me but I write them all down.Yeah and Dorado, I've got to give credit to one quote that I that I remember a lot that I'm sure it's come from other people, but my Colleague John sirach who John sirach work with in emergencies at the moment.
He's doing a a residency in surgery.But he I was talking to him some stage winner and a mutual friend was doing one of these 12-week body challenges and I'm like, so what do you think of these 12 week challenge is John he's a man of few words and he's like got to live the challenge but I love the challenge of the challenge.
And so what I do is I I write down anyone's quotes that I think is really worthwhile and John sirach leave the challenge is it was really quite profound, but whoever let me I'll give you one other one that's in here.
Give me one second.You keep them stored on your on your phone or your computer or way.Yeah, it's just on the phone.Yeah in one spot so I can write them down.Yeah.Where are we?Oh, yeah, I'll go back to the one Jurado.
We were talking about this the other day Ralph Waldo Emerson the Great American philosopher an essay is it says it probably goodbye to finish so a thought repin actions.So an action Reaper habit, so a habit Reaper character, so a character and reap a destiny Ralph Waldo Emerson the things we the small things we focus on become out become our life.
She said I think I think that's very profound and not a bad way to finish off in a discussion about careers and veterinary science.Can you read that again, please?Yes.Okay.Yeah, no, no worries.So our thought and and repin action so an action replay a habit.
So a habit Reaper character, so a character and reap a destiny.Yeah, that is this profound.It's an and it was written by thinking about eighteen eighteen eighty 1870.So so a long, you know a long time ago, but I guess the the truths that we live by were all uncovered a long time ago.
It's just it takes your whole lifetime to figure them out.And by the time you figured it all out, you know that the travesty of our existence is who listens to old people, you know those, you know, it's so horrible.Those opening most of your 80 you've got it all figured out.
No one listens to you.Yes, that's it.But anyway, that's and and I read Ralph Waldo Emerson.He wrote an essay called self-reliance that Barack Obama says is one of the most profound things he's read and after reading the essay, it's pretty hard going.
It's been Rewritten in so many forms.Forms by so many other authors in that in the field of kind of self-help of self improvement in there in the 20th century, but it's probably the first the first time some of these thoughts were poured into put onto paper and it's really quite quite an interesting read if you can persist with it.
All right.It's a little bit.I think you're right.I think that is a great spot to wrap up the generator.Yeah.It was awesome.Good job.I think I think that's it.There was there was from there.Thank you so much for your time.Rob Reider.
Always a pleasure to hang out with you you too.He is they have it every day.See you later guys.
Okay, if you're still listening, it means you really committed to improving.So here are some of the things that we've taken from our check with that think about a few major life goals for your career or your personal stuff with thinking or talking big picture stuff write them down somewhere.
We won't lose them now take a first step one step in any direction but a direction forward do good research.Send a few emails make a phone call.The to book a course by a book listen to a podcast whatever it is, just take action.
Take that first step forward.If you don't have a regular routine for some sort of physical activity already grabbed your diary or your phone then go do whatever you set your reminders or have your to do list and block off some time now to do something physical beside they are what it is that you want to do and write it down something like go for a walk or cycle to the shops.
Now do the same for every day for the next two weeks.If you don't schedule time for it chances are he won't do it.It's something that you'd like to do or trying to do but you're feeling like Failing at it.Think about the effort you're putting into it.Are you really giving it 100% of your available effort?
Is it something more than you could do what you what could you do today that can move you closer to your goal.Once you've done all this go phone your mum.So that's it.It might sound like you don't have much to do this dive, but step one might not be quite as easy as it sounds so get busy and go smash it before you start head to the iTunes Store and give us some feedback.
We'd love to know how we're doing.And if you'd loved it go tell at least three of your friends to give us a go.

Dr Rob Webster