Oct. 9, 2022

#78: Superhero conversations, sh&* sandwiches, and what we can learn from Ted Lasso. With Dr Rebecca Faris

#78: Superhero conversations, sh&* sandwiches, and what we can learn from Ted Lasso. With Dr Rebecca Faris
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 1

Challenging situations, negative emotions, hard conversations... pretty standard stuff in the average day of a vet, right? This is a conversation about finding a positive perspective on all these, plus all of the other stuff that gets in the way of an enjoyable veterinary career. Join us with Dr Rebecca Faris as we explore positive psychology, what real mindfulness looks like and why it’s essential in the work that we do, how to discover and live your strengths and how to have those hard conversations.

Rebecca's veterinary career journey has taken her from cattle vet legend, complete with ANZCVS membership in dairy medicine, via a mentoring and teaching role at Melbourne university to currently spending time on the dark side with part-time smallies emergency work. In 2016 Bec’s curiosity and the desire to become a better vet led her on a journey of discovery on how to become a better human. In 2019 she graduated with a Professional Certificate in Applied Positive Psychology,  and immediately put her new knowledge to work as an educator, teaching local school communities how to be more resilient. These days, Rebecca is using what she’s learnt to help make the vet profession better through her wellbeing consultancy, FlourishEd,  which provides positive, playful, and targeted well-being education for organisations that want to create environments where their people flourish.

 

Join us with Rebecca at The Vet Expo in Sydney on 26 and 27 October for some live podcast recording. 

Go to thevetvault.com for show notes and to check out our guests’ favourite books, podcasts and everything else we talk about in the show.

Unplug, connect and grow with us at our first-ever Vet Vault Live conference with Prof Jill Maddison and Prof David Church in Noosa on 22-25 November.

If you want to lift your clinical game, go to vvn.supercast.com for a free 2-week trial of our short and sharp highly practical clinical podcasts.

We love to hear from you. If you have a question for us or you’d like to give us some feedback please get in touch via email at thevetvaultpodcast@gmail.com, or find us on Instagram.

And if you like what you hear then please share the love by clicking on the share button wherever you’re listening and sending a link to someone who you think should hear this. 

 

Hello and welcome back.My fellow negatively.Biased hairless monkeys, that's not an insult.Just a fact, keep listening and you'll see what I mean.This is a conversation about getting a positive perspective on challenging situations and negative emotions and hard conversations.
You know, the stuff that you deal with every day I'm joined by dr.Rebecca Ferris to talk amongst other things about positive psychology.What real mindfulness looks like and why it's essential in the work that we do about finding a Living our streets and having those hard conversations that we mentioned before.
Rebecca's career Journey has taken her from cattle vet Legend complete with her Australia.New Zealand College of Ed surgeons memberships in Derry medicine to a mentorship and teaching role at Melbourne University.And currently spending time on the dark side with part-time small is emergency work in 2016, Beck's curiosity and a desire to become a better.
Wait, later on a journey of learning how to become a better human in 2019.She graduated with a professional certificate.It in applied positive psychology and immediately put a new knowledge to work as an educator teaching local school communities had to be more resilient these days back.
Is using what she's learned to help make the vet, professional beta through her well-being, consultancy flourish, Ed, it provides positive playful and targeted well-being, education for organizations who want to create environments where they people can flourish.Now, if you've been paying attention, you'll see a pattern in our last few episodes.
In that the guests have something in common.Yes, they're all speaking at the wedding.In Sydney, on 26 and 27, October and this matters because we'll be at the Wedding Expo with our very own red V tool that will be turning into a portable podcast exterior.Just this week.
I bought a junkie hard shell suitcase on Facebook Marketplace, so I can safely transport, my desktop in my recording gear and I bought a fancy new mic which will be using to harass the speakers at the conference to dive deeper this on their passions with some live broadcasting.So, this is why I've been stalking the speaker list to see who should interview at the event and bumping into the This whole new network of wonderful people and they wonderful ideas but I get a bit excited and I'm not that good at waiting.
So I've been jumping the gun and getting a few of them on the podcast to explore their ideas.Right here with you, we would love you to come and hang out with us and all these beautiful Minds that will be speaking at and attending the event.If you don't know what the VX / is, it's an event that will bring the originally Animal Health and paid keywords together with over 100, major weight and paid product supplies, as well as some of the most Innovative startup companies in the red space.
Attendance.So once you've explored the Expo floor to see what's new and exciting and Wetland and if Gorge yourself on the very long list of presentations, come and find us across the aisle from the coffee shop.Say hi have a chat.In fact, I have a challenge for you.Come and interview US, grab the mic be the broadcaster that you know you are at heart and ask myself in Gerardo anything you want.
We'll put it out live so no editing out of any of our answers or are blunders.To make sure we have a total of 8.V, listen to take over at the event.We have a special offer for you from the team at The Wedding Expo.Use red V, 7t that's all caps, ve t, v--, a ult. 70.
When you check out and your tickets were the two days will be 90 bucks or $105.If you want to join on the boat, cruise that I mentioned, that this boat cruise, there's a boat cruise, that is 70% of the standard pricing.We would love to see you there.Okay, let's get back to Did Rebecca Paris.
Welcome to the vet Vault.Thanks you.Thank you for having me.Just chatting beforehand.We actually have got a similar career trajectory and some of the things that we are hoping to achieve.Yeah, it sounds like you a few steps ahead of the game.For me.I don't know about that.
And dangerous thing of comparing to others.There's a quote that I like, and that I often have to look out for me because I fall into that trap of comparing, to others the whole time.Okay, well, look at their why, why do I suck so much?This person so far ahead of me.It's the, it's the Gap Theory and happiness research on.
Have you heard of it?So, it's basically there's a gap between what we have and what we want and that's that Gap.That causes unhappiness, it is the gap between the life.You live now and the life you want to live.And that's where the conflict happens.And this is two strategies to fix.
That is either you work at it.To get that thing that you want to go.All these are the steps I need to do to get there or I need to learn.To want what I have.And and then the second strategy and I think for me it's a combination of the two.
But the strategy for the achieving that second one is to stop looking at others.They say you've got to pick an ankle.What do you anchoring what you want in life too?Is it your own values in your own desires?Or is it what somebody else is doing?Philosophy, straight off the bat this.Well, it's interesting because, like I said, you started to say that I could look over to this affirmation card, I have over here that says, Don't berate yourself for being preoccupied with your professional.
Each other dilate.Others describe the anxiety is the erotic.Give the agony the time, it needs luxuriate in it and prepare to spend one hour every evening and four hours.Every weekend.Is that how we spend the Gap?I think.So, I like that.What does it say, the sentence again about the Lao, the agony, or what's that give?
The agony the time, it needs luxuriate in it.That's my problem.I try to get away from that Agony.Isn't it?Like we try to lead away from Um, these uncomfortable feelings when perhaps we should be leading into them, just there normally telling us something, aren't they?
Well, we just jump straight into that if you want to expand on this is a it straight into the deep bed.Yeah, we haven't we actually tell you because we're talking about we're talking on the wet bulb because they're coming up to the Wedding Expo and want to talk about why we should make time for positive emotions, but we've jumped straight in with the negative ones.
But what you said there about one option is to want.What?You already have and I guess that's the point of deliberately making time for the positive emotions so we can start to appreciate what we have.So when we have a negative emotion, we tend to want to move away from that thing, that that feeling and whereas a positive emotion, helps us be a bit more open-minded and broaden our thinking.
So maybe when we have those uncomfortable moments the antidote is to find something positive so that we can start to Be creative and start to think about what it is that.We're what that we want.What is that?How do we move through?That Gap doesn't make any sense.
It does give me an example though, so I can get my head around it.Let's say, you run up into.I'm trying to think of a common negative emotion we talkin to read.So let's try and think of a weight situation of a negative emotion Panic.Yeah, Panic.
Okay.Panting.I'm in one.Yeah.If you're talking about, Background.You've agency.I think there's probably a fair bit of panic that comes into emergency and I guess you know, it's a classic option would be to think about mindfulness and using some reading strategies to lower cortisol and come back down.
So we can start to think about what are we looking at?And what do we need to do next?The panic.I think is telling us that this is important to us.I guess if we didn't care what happened to the animal, we wouldn't be so panicked about what to do and whether so we can fix it.
I don't think it's about emotion that just, we need to in the moment.It may not be that helpful to run away.So you might Use a strategy like mindfulness in the moment to feel Karma.But then you might need to think of another strategy later on to explore.
Why did I feel panicked?What can I do to overcome that next time it is it that I need to do some more learning or something like that.Whereas if we just stick with that feeling of panic, then we may say that all this isn't right for me is I'm in the wrong job.I can't do this.
I'm panicked now.Are you reading my mind?Nice.I'm writing my own minds and I preface this with.I am a big plastic do as I say, not as I So because I guess that's probably where I sit at the moment.I do some casual emergency work, and it does often fill me with panic.
And I Know It means that I need to, I need to learn and, and do some more and we talked to 44 about time.And where do you find the time to so much information out there.There's so much we can learn.Where do you start these days?It's almost like information overload.
Well, you start by subscribing to the vehicle clinical phone This is plug it in for it.Literally when that I work this week on Tuesday she's in mourning and there's a straight of that shift that I do early morning shift and we had full hospital and I think patient that one going that.
Well, I had 16 now, I'm exaggerating maybe eight clients to call and I know in the morning they want to get cold.They want to know how the animals doing and I had a not that sick consult coming but they still want to receive and then I had a realistic one coming back really dying and not obvious like, oh shit, why are you dying?
Sort of a thing and total panic.You think that 20 years in?I could it's not it wasn't any one.Thing that pain, even that sick.Patient, my skill levels in my interest.That's where it is.I want to focus on that patient, but in my head goes, you gotta find this person.
You gotta do that phones.Ringing, recipients saying, have you phoned?Mrs. Smith, the head with a pipe.They don't.No, I haven't and I just it's exactly that moment of just going.Everybody just piss off and then there's thoughts of I hate this.Sorry, if my brother is listening.
I don't really hate it at the time.I hate this.I don't want to work anymore.I want to just go home.But actually, you just hate the feeling.Okay, so help me through head moment, how did you get through that moment?
Head down and just keep plugging away.One thing at a time, but I, and it's interesting, you say, this is the, the do what you say and not do what you do because I do try very hard.I do mindfulness practice I do meditate because I do appreciate the and sometimes it works, and I'll give examples of that.
But I think the first thing and tell me if I'm right, but is recognizing the emotion As an immersion, right?Not the truth.That's correct.So I had had another one earlier in the week of a dog.That was try to bite me.You know, Annoying Thing.
I'm in a hurry, I want to get home.Just needed a very simple thing in the stupid, Bulldogs trying to bite me and I was getting frustrated and I was giving and I actually had a rage.I was giving really, you know, when you start and then and that I had a moment of mindfulness there going.Okay, recognize that his anger, there's good reason for it but it just let it wash it.
Sit for a second and let I tried to go and then I can reset and start again and just do what I need to do.I was successful, the the other irritation of feeling overwhelmed and being crushed by my boss because we are understaffed, but it's not really a fault and grass with the receptionist because they just booked in another thing, and it's nobody's fault.
I failed it.That I was grumpy about that the rest of the day, So how do I do that beta or somebody who's still stuck in that?How do you get better at that short answer is, I don't know, but I think it's to do with the practice so they talk about mindfulness being a practice because we never perfect it and so the whole thing is about being aware and the more you do it, the more you become aware and in theory, I guess you becomes faster at picking up that Emotion, and trying to regulate it.
And it's a deliberate choice.You to say, the word regulate and not control.So we're regulating our emotion, so we can get through the job that we need to do.But it's hard, it's not straightforward.And a lot of these experts, you know.
So it took them a good over five years of regular practice before they were able to make it a habit in their lives.So I'm a bit slow on.Probably been trying for longer than five years to make it a habit.I'm not Still by using it as a reactionary tool.
So I noticed that I've been in, you know, I'm feeling stressed and I'll use it at that moment that I haven't become great at putting it into a habit as a preventative tool, but I think that's the key, the more we can use it proactively so that then in those moments, you can catch yourself a little bit quicker.
But I think that we need to not, we need to go back and process at emotion at some point.Hmm.How journaling counselors active reflection?I really like using a reflective sort of framework tool and you can Google those and make a tool that works for you.
Where I just take the moments after that was a bad day, you might look at that case and say well how was I feeling what was happening around that time and maybe it was that you haven't had any sleep or you were really hungry or just there.Circumstances and you know what went well, what didn't go well what would you do differently and maybe some action that you would take to make the situation better next time and I found that being really again I don't do it.
So I think I can do it more but I definitely getting better at do using that when that sort of a process when things haven't gone.Well, I think the pro level is when we start doing that when students have actually Gone.Well so we can say this was a good day.
What made it a good day.So then we can start having more of them.So his dad would mindfulness means to you because we it's such a thrown around junk, would these days mindfulness which for some people I think brings to mind incense and bell.
Bottom pants is that mindfulness for you is just being.Yeah well, tell me in your words.What is mindfulness mean for you and then be if you have a mindfulness practice?What does it look like?Yeah, so mindfulness is just about being in the moment and just be present and not thinking about the future, or thinking about the past.
And it's I've been told for a long time, but you really should meditate and I said, no, I can't do that.I don't know how to meditate and I can't imagine you might have thought the same thing here, and then until I found out what it actually was, and I went to actually went to a meditation The treat or training theme and learnt, that it's not about turning your brain off.
It's just about focusing on that here.And now in that moment and that having racing thoughts, and that sort of stuff is quite normal, and it's about noticing it rather than trying to switch it off.You know, our brains, that's what they're designed for to think so.We can't just say stop thinking.And I think that was a turning point for me, when I realized that it's not, yes, sitting in silence on the top of a mountain with incense going and having to be in the perfect place for it.
I am a big fan of guided meditations and that's probably because I get impatient and we'll won't some sit there long enough.I think if I just do it myself, but you can do all sorts of things, it doesn't have to be meditation.Like, people can do the mindful coloring or just random doodling people that like, the grounding and walking outside in their bare feet on the grass.
But at the end of the day, anything that brings your focus on what you're doing.So all the people making I'll do in covid.We're probably practicing mindfulness.While they were kneading the dough.I'm gonna definitely on a journey with trying to figure this out and I, I don't know, some days.
I feel like I get worse in terms of mind going to a million places.At once I get worse, the more I do it but maybe not.I think it's just because I'm doing many different things that my mom, there's more that occupies my mind and maybe without my mindfulness practice, I would have been a complete mess so I don't know.
It's very hard to Monitor and as a side, Is T, 120 are to track progress over some sword.And then, the more I get it to mindfulness practice and meditation that go.No, that's not what it's about.It's not a competition.It's not about being a good meditator or achieving anything.It is just about exact it's about practice like any in activity that you do that.
Just sounds like an absolutely perfect mindful moment, you've just had their here so you've been mindful being aware of that is mindfulness.That's all it is, it's being aware.So you've noticed that, it might be.That the more it seems you've been doing your mindfulness practice, and you're now able to notice those crazy thoughts and the racing mind and stuff like that.
And now, the next game keep practicing, you might start to notice the changes or it's easier to slow it down.Yeah, maybe, maybe you're right.Maybe you.Because you're so stuck in your head without mindfulness that you don't even realize what's happening.I have a way of thinking of it when I started learning about meditation and started practicing a bit of meditation, I was trying to picture out of my head.
I'd like visual thinking, with anything vet related or anything.Is what's a story about this thing?I'm doing as a surfer so far, I haven't searched for a just I like surfing but it in my head.So anybody who hasn't served when you beginning to serve when you're learning to serve the hardest but is that Impact Zone?
Between the beach and at the back where the waves are actually breaking.We've got the foamy rollers and they'll just beat the crap out of, you can't dry them.You can't do anything.It's just that it's the Impact Zone and they're all over you.And you need to learn to duck dive and that's really unpleasant.You've got salt in your nose and it rolled by the waves.
But then through practicing that and paddling and paddling, and paddling, and getting fitter in a better technique, you can get out to before the waves break.And there's waves are still there.It's the same wave but because you further back in you're not just being rolled around.
By the way.If you just considered Bob over the wave, the wave goes through you and unit goes away.And then you can choose the one you want to ride.You can go.Okay, I've liked and they won't go.I can let that one go.Here's the one I want get on that and get the Maximum Impact.I don't know if it's a good description but for me that's what I try and Achieve with mindfulness is to get out of that Impact Zone of thoughts and emotions that You can't do anything because they just take you where they want you to actually practice a little bit so I can get up back and sit back.
That's the goal.Do I achieve it?Now, must do what?Every time you I think surfing is a great way to be mindful.I can't get myself over the fear of what might be under the water, but and I'll also yeah.
Maybe I haven't pushed myself through that Impact Zone because I just don't like getting dumped and all that sort of stuff.But yeah, these are really good metaphor that you've described.That it it's hard and it's it's not, it's not easy.Like it seems like, it should be easy but its not and I think most people give up, they said I tried that once.
It was didn't work, it's like it's cuz it's not easy like to sit there with your own thoughts and be still is really hard and I think when we think it'll be a quick fix and then it doesn't really work.And I think there's a lot of expectation that people who are practicing mindfulness other NG techniques are perfect at it, but we're human.
And so we do keep making mistakes that were becoming aware of what, what's happening?We can start trying to get better, I guess the most common reason if you talk to somebody about meditation and it's oh no, I can't meditate.My thoughts are everywhere.I can't I can't sit still in my head.
I'm like that's exactly why you should meditate.That's what it's a bit like saying I know I can't go for a run away to fatter than fit.Yeah, yeah, it's Yeah, that's why do you ask you about?You know, do we have proof that these sort of things work and my understanding is that there's evidence from functional MRI Machines of changes in people's brains after mindfulness training.
So the idea is that, yeah, you're retraining a new neural, Pathway to break habits, or create new positive habits.So there is evidence about it.Ying.Yeah, yeah.There's a lot of evidence out there that's I think that's what got me into because I was very much put off by the incense and whoo.
Whoo.And then, actually seeing that know there's a lot of science behind it is What attracted attracted to attracted me to it in the first place.So, there's who is this?Where?Because I'm going to my research.Do you talk about?Neuroplasticity is one of your topic that way that comes in is that about actually.
Yeah.Aging the structure of your your brain.Yeah.I think it was probably my How am I meant to say was that?Oh, we often take on board a lot of negative feedback about ourselves or that we receive and think that that's the only way it can be and we're just sort of fixed that way.
And having learning that you can actually change those Pathways then became kind of quite exciting but it's probably the vet in me going, oh, great, I can fix this.That's probably not the answer, he's not fixing its acceptance.
But I guess that in itself is a new neural Pathways and that where we train Tree Train, our brain, not to berate ourselves but to have that acceptance and whatever, you know, just like Chuck teaching yourself and you how that I think about it a bit like we know this.
Like we do it and that's with dogs, don't we?We do counter conditioning with know that our dog reacts when it sees another dog, and if it sees the other dog 100 meters away doesn't react but it sees it 50 meters away it starts Acting.So we start training a dog to sit and become 100 meters away.
When it sees the other dog, and we give them, lots of positive reinforcement with treats and things like that.We don't try and teach them when they're 50 meters away and they're already barking, and their hackles are raised.So, I think like, we, I think intuitively know that this works.So there's something that I've thought I sometimes wonder about, we'll take it back to do that reaction.
I had an emergency clinic the other day.Sometimes our part of me goes right over doing this for 20 years.I still get that sort of reaction in those sort of situations.Maybe this is just the way I am.Maybe it.
Maybe I'm not actually emergency vet but I should do something that doesn't throw these situations at me because it's I still react like that.Is there in the stuff that you'd learning because you talk about nature, I haven't nature.I have a way of being even the personality Styles and personality types.
This is the way I am versus growth.Sit and neuroplasticity and saying, No, this is why I am but this is the way I would like to be how much neuroplasticity is that, is there that anchor core of who you are and how you like, the jury act or can you get over that completely?
I wish I knew the answer here because I think I'm in exactly the same boat at the moment and I'm having exactly the same thoughts that you're describing and It's really tricky.What are the things so thinking about, like what I wear, I have kind of come on this sort of well-being, Journeys that I spent about 18 months, teaching in schools, locally about well-being and resilience.
And one of the things we had was a neuroplasticity day where we spent a whole day teaching your seven kids about neuroplasticity.It was great fun, but there was those another little survey Aha moment of seeing some kids with some pretty traumatic backgrounds, and just the look on her face when they learnt that their brain could change.
They just, I don't know, that will stay with me for a really long time.And I think it's probably because I'm trying to be kind to myself and think about that as well, that where we are the product of what has happened to us.And I think you have to believe that we can change it.
It's I don't know.It's Yeah, it's really are, is it who we are?We accepted and, and we can change it.Is it, does it have to be an off?Maybe it could be an end.That's a great answer.I like so I guess the thing comes back to again, the do you want what you have or do you?
Are you doing the wrong thing?So maybe in use that?Well, I want one of the things about emergency medicine that you love and if you don't want to feel like that doing it, then you have that internal motivation to try to do something about it.
It's cold, say we jumped in the deep end.It's battle back after this.Elevate.Yeah, a little bit.Tell me about your little bit so you're obviously a veterinarian primarily.Tell me about your work history and how did you come to being interested in these things?Out of the become your, your thing?
Yeah.Well I grew up on a farm and went into back because I wanted to live in the country and work with farmers and I like solving problems and seemed like a pretty good fit.And so I went through vet school with a fairly strong.
The focus on farm animals associated my career MX practiced and focused on Dairy medicine which is great and then had a family and sort of fell into the stereotype of part-time.Small animal work and I've had my second child, I took this practitioner residence role at Melbourne uni and I thought I have got that because I actually thought it was going to be that was going to get an opportunity to upskill in my clinical skills.
Like, wait, I'll go to the UT and I'll learn about like I'll follow the specialists around and used to be a great continuing education, but it turned out to be a very different continuing education program.So, it was more working with the students and really kind of coaching them around choosing and applying for jobs and listening to them.
Talk was really eye-opening that they sort of said, a lot of the things that resonated with me and you could see their perfectionism and their fears and doubts, and I don't think Buddy had really shown me that before.Like I think role models made everything just look easy and really didn't talk about struggle but the other part of it was that I was doing that job with Kathy will burden from make Headway and she's introduced me to the concept of growth mindset and neuroplasticity and then I just kind of got hooked so yeah I guess I went down this path.
Yeah, I just was interested in and I guess when you're interested in things, you just keep researching them and Learning more about them.And then, yeah, I was finding it really hard to really enjoy my work and I saw this in about how how we can achieve more and that's not all.
So I learn how to be a better vet, but turns out it was more about how to be a better human, but from that when it did have some more study in the area and did a certificate in positive psychology and then from that, I've never talked about the connection.
And that you meet in the course of your day.People who don't know, your background will offer up different options and ideas because there's no preconceived idea.So just, you know, the people you meet at school pickup, kind of that you talk to, you have no idea if somebody was working in this job in the school teaching while being a resilient and they knew that they team was expanding and they were needing a of Education support person.
So I applied and yeah it.So I did that and took a break out of general practice that to do that.And then that's how I came to do a little bit of emergency to try and pay the bills.I talked, I thought to myself that this job being paid work experience.
It was good, that it was.But yeah.So that man, I got to figure out how to teach and present and then I just became addicted to these.The the looks on people's faces when they learnt these new ideas and their, I don't know, I guess.That's what teachers become teachers because they like that little moment where it clicks for the student and it's kind of, yeah, that's pretty addictive.
So that's why I decided to start Fleury shed because I wanted to take what I've learnt from that school system into our world.I think that we can learn a lot from positive education and the things that are teaching the kids that we kind of missed out on in our generation.
Quick Interruption learning new skills, neuroplasticity connections, that open up new doors, being present and mindful in the moment.Those are all things that we'll be doing at the Midfield live in Noosa between 22 and 25.November later this year, we finalize our clinical program with the Oracles of small is medicine Professor, Jill medicine.
And Professor David church, just this week for Jill will be talking about clinical reasoning.So how are learning styles impact on our clinical decision-making?And why we do what Do the way we do it, plus taking us through some clinical conundrums with the jaundice patient to help us submit the principles that will learn while proof David will do what he does best with deep Dives, on Edison's, Cushing's and diabetes, and some case conundrums on the week, patient, and the Pu PD patient.
But, these are not just lectures.In fact, we are giving away three months of free access to our clinical podcasts to all the attendees.So you can listen to the episodes that we've already done with these two and then we'll be doing what we do best, which is digging deeper.Through case discussions q&a's and more podcasting.
I'm particularly looking forward to the recording will do on difficult diabetics on day two.After our fans fans learnt in our Fancy Pants, Noosa restaurant, that may or may not include some wines things might get a bit messy.Join us just for the to clinical days or join us for the full for day, experience with hiking, and kayaking, and surfing, and yoga, and paddle boarding and exploring deeper, living with Phillip McKinnon on day, for the link to the event is in the show description, and you guys should Vivi listener.
That's vv4 wet V listener or gaps at checkout to get you.Listen a discount.Okay, back to Rebecca and teaching kids how to be more resilient.Style of the teach kids this stuff these days but Apollo is jealous.
I see what my kids learn and like, yeah, because I have a head start, that's not fair and I know that it's like I may not be a role for this 20 years.But yeah.Yeah.Well we went out have to be retrospectively.Trying to patch holes in education, or holes in upbringing, might find that the vet in 20 years time, this will be just natural to them, but they'll still, we still need reminding.
Like, I just, don't think it comes that.Easily.It's lifelong learning.We just need to keep chipping away at it.So what are the key things that you took from that?You know, you get those moments of inside that you saw on the kids faces.Are they main things from that that you want to bring to the vet profession with flourish head?
Yeah, so like I said of said, you know, a few things that a bit of a tagline being it's not just what we do, but how we do it.And what I mean by that is that I think there's an opportunity whenever we talk about well-being or Any education, anything that we can do it in a way that it actually increases our well-being while we're doing it.
So because we have a everyone sort of basic need to feel like they belong if we can learn together as a group, it opens up that opportunity for building psychological safety.So some of the things that we would do with the teachers trying to encourage them to have quick little gains or activities in their sort of morning, kind of roll call time.
And look, I wouldn't say it was easy to get people on board with doing, but the idea was that play is when we kind of let our guard down a little bit, and the kids could start to build stronger relationships with their teachers and their peers because it's easier to feel like you belong when everyone's making a bit of a fool of themselves and you don't feel quite so self-conscious.
So I think that type of those sorts of activities.If we really helpful in Veterinary teams to help field, Electrical safety between managers and teams and that's priming our brain for having a better day, we're going to be more open-minded, and we're going to be better able to solve problems or learning.
We're going to have better relationships with other people when we sort of, primed our brain, with some positive emotion.So one of the examples I would have would be one of the key parts of positive psychology that I've really loved is the idea of our strength.And so that we are looking at what is Write about us and trying to reframe weaknesses is just maybe underplayed strengths, we've all got them, we can, we can do this.
It's not that you don't have this in you and you know you could send out an email with a link to do a survey about what your strengths are and just go, there you go.Great.You know what your strengths are and that in itself will have a positive benefit to somebody.
If they do it sometimes about the survey fatigue people don't like sir.Yeah, so we found it was more successful when we actually had it in a staff meeting.There was time set aside, you're all doing it and we got the team to sort of have a guess at what their teammates strengths might be.
So it's called strength spotty.And again, the other moment was just standing back and watching these teachers run up to each other and go hey what did you get it?I knew you'd have creativity.Oh jeez.I absolutely knew that you would be great at Teamwork and then that other person know that face.
Tasteless, they feel great.They've just, you know, you've just got that moment of bonding which they wouldn't have got if they'd been sitting in their office think I've got to do another survey so it's just getting extra bang for your buck and making it.Yeah really fun and and deliberate so why is it important to find your strength?
Why is that something that you're so interested in?It's just been shown that when people are using their strengths at work or even just being aware of their strengths and then even more.So if they using them More likely to be engaged at work.Then we'll likely to be more productive, more efficient, more likely to get a sense of accomplishment and reach our goals if we're playing to our strengths.
So the first step is becoming aware of what they are, so that we can start to dial into them and use them to our advantage.Whenever I feel like a lot of people, and I'm probably count myself in that group, don't really know what these Trends are.
So, how did you Find yours.As long as they.How does one find your.But how did you find your strength?I'm probably that one vet that does actually like, filling out surveys.I like filling out a form, I get so excited when since this comes around I'm like that's a sense of yeah.
So I just I did the form but that came through doing that well being work at the courses in well being a diver Kathy I'm with the positive psychology and there's a few different things you can do but I'm a bit of a fan of the VA.Character strengths survey, what's the problem?
And how do you spell it?The vi a which is their values in action Institute founded by Martin Seligman and the guy Chris Peterson.So they've started the research in.What are the strengths that are valued by people all around the world?And so they're basically a strength is a value in action, and there's 24 of them and we all have them, but the order that they're in is unique to us.
Okay, so, hmm.So if To think about a time when you were doing really well and might be at work, or in life things, you felt really energized by what you were doing.And you think of a time like that, something you feel really energized by.
Well, the, the podcasts, I think it's the creative process of putting it all together.I'm in my in that flow State.We're not just coming together and I'm towards the end of saying, there's a product that I really like so that's that's definitely something that's why I do it is, I get that.
It's not stressful, I can just keep going at it with Pinnacle work, it is when the connections are good and that's with clients or with coworkers, I love a team environment where the day's good and people interacting nicely and you're having fun, even if it's hard, it's still fun.
That's what I thrive on.Yeah.Yeah.I think I go to work to hang out.That people mostly you and I think we really are peas in a pod here here because that's I was going to have a guess at what I thought your strength might be what you might say.
And I was going to put money on, it would be the podcast.And I mean just so that you say you did identify the creativity of putting it all together, but I would have wondered, whether it's that Curiosity most of it, you know, we are B where scientists be curious and so you like to talk to people and find out about that.
So I feel the same And I do feel like yeah it's come to the point with the vet work is that it's pretty more about the people and hanging out with like-minded people or when you have that connection and you're either learning together, or you're waiting through the mud together.
It's quite, it's bonding and one of the things that you can then do is use, if you're struggling in an area potentially, you can use one of your strengths to maybe help lift up the thing that you're struggling with.So again, if it's important.
So if it's intrinsically Important to you in turn back, go back to the stressful, Panic moment with the emergency.If that's important to you, to be able to get through that and maybe might be important because that's, you know, bread and butter and the source of income and we need to feed our family.
And then you, you might say, okay, well, I'm really curious is the might one of my top strength or and I'm creative.You might start to think.Well, I might use that Curiosity to learn about up.What are all the strategies that can help me through that moment?And And how can I creatively design something that's going to work?
For me, it's instead of looking at it at that are I don't know how I can't do that.I'm not good at calming myself down.You can say, I'll hang on what strengths do.I have they can help me solve that problem.I like that because it's very easy to get.Once you hit those negative emotions to get stuck in a Dana self-flagellation of going that's just typical of me I get I'm so shit.
I get so frustrated why can't I just be better at this instead of doing that because once you get stuck in that thought pattern, it just perpetuates the situation.But I like that actually is new to know your strengths and to go well, okay this is what's happening, comes back to mindfulness to go.
Alright, it this this thing.That I do is happening.What tools are got in my tool belt to make it better.Actually.Yeah.And I think it's because we have a negative, any bias, isn't it?So we tend to look at what's wrong with ourselves and it's really, really hard to break that habit and I think that's actually found the me.
That's the thing that's worked, he's strengths and I can try to go okay, well, I think this is it, I did a survey that's been validated by researchers, or whatever, and Therefore I have these strengths and I, you know, cynics can say maybe it's not really who you can't trust a survey or whatever.
But I do think we the top ones, don't tend to change very much and we do tend to identify pretty strongly with them and it's just helps break that negative self talk by saying, okay well even if I'm not really great at Serenity and I'm not really good at feeling calm or self regulations.
Either way, on that week, sort of thinking about controlling your managing our emotions, in the moment, not many westerners are very good at that If we're honest.But we can say, okay, it is a tough one to do.What are my top strengths that I can use to help me with that?I think it just switches are brain other things that people or that you misunderstood or people commonly misunderstand about their strengths or about strength in general.
I think they misunderstand that the think that we're trying to ignore weaknesses or that they're saying that if we only want to focus on strengths that we don't want to talk about weaknesses, I think that's that's wrong.There's a lot of the emergency researchers talking about overplayed and underplayed strengths and finding the golden mean or the optimum use of our strengths.
And so, yeah, it's not saying that.There's not areas that we can improve.I think it's just framing it.Positive light, which in all that positive psychology is about really is focusing on the positives.It doesn't really serve anyone when we just keep focusing on the negatives.
Like it just with spiral downwards in these barrels are negative emotion into these anxiety and depression.And that's not really that helpful, but focusing on the positive keeps us a little bit more open-minded and willing to engage in that process.
I think it sounds so simple but it's not.You said Add the word negativity bias because sometimes would when I was going to say people but I could just say when I when you don't be oh you have a negative emotion.It's Kind like we like we've really shit like we were star selves at it and if even if somebody offers you that you stuck in this Quagmire of negativity and somebody throws you.
The lifebelt just try and get you out of it.It was like, you push it away.It's like no, I'm happy.Being angry.Just leave me alone.I'm pissed off that.And that dry.My wife always says, don't play the Glad game so don't try and pretend things are fine and when they're not oh yeah I do resonate with that and that's where that neuroplasticity comes back in.
Isn't it to say?Okay well is this a habit that we need to change?Yeah.Rebecca, my eyes from looking at the work you do in the stuff.You teach something.I've been wanting to talk about on the podcast for a while.
Is difficult conversations.So, you talk about when were in situations at work, that we don't like the ones that we can do something about and it's not just well I should reframe this.Here's a situation.I can actually fix it.If it is to do with people that you work with and we often focus on our interactions with clients and negative interactions, they will Out of it comes down to team as well like nobody's more and happy as a vet who's in a team that they don't gel with and there's into team conflict and problems and little annoyances and things like that with your teaching.
Do you cover having difficult conversations at all?Having a good way of going up to a colleague or a bus or bus, going to an employee to talk about something that's not easy to talk about?Yeah well, you know the same teach what?
You most need to learn.I'm totally putting it out there that this is my big blind spot.And then area that I really, really struggle with.But one of the things that I love teaching, primary school kids that I think we could all learn from is what I call the super hero conversation.
So we talked a lot about using, I statements turns out.I'm quite good at teaching.My son how to have these conversations.So he's also called Hugh by the way.So here is Christ at superhero conversations and my husband and I to sit there kind of in awe, we just say wow how do you do that?
You know, you can see is upset about something and he's really try to bottle it all up and eventually kind of get out.Okay, there is something troubling you and so if they ki we need to have a superhero conversation.So we practice it and and it sort of starts with I noticed and then he'll say what happened and this made me feel and then you should sort of have a request of what you'd like to change or to have happen.
But I think I get stuck very much in that bubble of tension of like, okay, I know I need to have this conversation and I can script it in my head or write it down.But then that taking that next step and having the conversation is really hard and I think that comes back to getting a lot of negative feedback for when things haven't gone.
Well, so that you then become so, Anxious about stuffing it up again that then it's going to snowball into an even bigger conflict which you know anything about driving through the bungee cord, the Impact Zone in the surf.
Unfortunately, that's the only way through it is to go through that discomfort.And I'm trying to train my brain to do that better by real trying to relearn that and trying to test that in areas where I feel.
All safe, I guess.Is they're the key feeling that you're safe to have?That try that difficult conversation, like this, that's a superhero conversation because it is, it's courageous action.It is especially for.And I think I said, I think the dads are says that as a profession, we are to a very large extent.
One of the, the amiable social style, a man, we like getting along with people.I think Jared always talks about about 70%.He doesn't talk about social Styles.And when they do them at talks, almost always about 70% of the people in the audience in a veteran audience, I'm evil.
So don't like conflict.Just want to get along with everybody.And I think it's a trap because then when it you let these little things build up that you go.Oh, it's just a small annoyance.I'm not going to I'm going to upset the person by talking about this little thing that As me.
But then it keeps annoying.You get to know you and it's builds into resentment.And I read over a beautiful similarly, for this to say it's like the snake under the carpet.It's under the carpet, you can't see it.It's there but if you ignore it long enough it turns into a dragon and when it's big enough, it's going to devour you and then you can't do anything about it.
Whereas, if you just went to deal with the dude, it was a small little snake.You could actually deal with it.Would you classify yourself as one of those a beer?Voters who rather avoid conflict and then have the superhero conversation.Yeah.I feel like I'm surprised that they're standing of percent of people that aren't that way.
Oh no, I worked at all, but I'll definitely avoid it.And I guess this is part of my, my learning is watching.He have these conversations and and I'll say, to him the next day I did, you have that conversation and he says, oh yeah.
And I'll had to go and he just had one.Like when he says, we said, oh yes.And my friend just said, oh, that's okay.I can just say that.That was a misunderstanding.Yeah, that's how all of these guys all like nine.All right, is that doesn't seem to be what happens when we try and do it, you know, workplace, with adults, don't seem to be able to, like, forgive and forget or move on.
It's just, I don't know.As I said, I hate people who know me, you were listening to.These are just going to be like, oh my god, Vicki you're a hypocrite.But yeah, I think I want to be vulnerable.All to say, this is hard and to bring it back to the, why I think it's so important to have these fun positive emotion, generating activities as a team is because that's how we build that psychological safety, where we feel like we can have those conversations.
Because it's so when you do a silly game where it's really hard and everyone sort of mix it up and you can't really like beads, it's a challenge that nobody can really.Each then, everyone's looking silly, everyone starts laughing, and it just breaks all those barriers down.
And so, I think that helps make it easier to try and deal with the snake, rather than waiting till it's a dragon.That's why I've it's like getting Drunk Together, the level it.Yeah.So you want to do that without the alcohol and within work hours so you know, yeah.
It's but I think that's right.It's exactly.You know, when we make fools of ourselves we come together.I just think it's important to try to make time to do that.Okay, so the goal is to have a work.Is where it shouldn't be that hard to have Superior conversations with that's the norm and when it's okay because you know that the person is not going to sulk for the next month because you actually said that, I don't like it.
When you do X, Y and Z.Yeah.When you don't want your coffee cup squad, Universal.That clinic problem.It coffee cup was.Yeah, don't worry.I've walked into that one before.Yeah.But I think like to me, what are the barriers I have Is feeling safe birth to practice it.
So I know that the first few times I try and have a superhero conversation, it's not going to work.Like it's, I'm going to stuff it up, I'll do it wrong and I don't always feel safe to make those mistakes.And I think that's, that comes back to our feedback and using strengths that we sort of try to keep it positive rather than, oh my God.
You're terrible at conflict management.Or, you know, you can't have courageous conversations.You don't have any way to go from that.You just sort of going to retreat into your shelf where you can sort of say, hey I really loved how you dial up your bravery and you had to go.That was a really great first step.
I know how hard it is to start those conversations and that was really hard.Sounds like a didn't really go all that well or you know, you could have done something different.How would we preach it?Next time you talk about one of your talks, at the vet Expo is is about the positive work.
Like the performance review.Yes, the sort of sluts into that.How do we have those?Because it's the same thing, isn't it?It's sometimes there has to be some Superior conversations in that.Yeah.So, that's exactly.So using the strength in that Superhero conversation, I think, for me, a lot of positive feedback I get might be quite brief or limited.
So, I don't think we've got a very good language.We say, oh, you're a good vet, what does that mean?I don't know how to repeat being a good vet, you know?It's I think there's a lot of Talk in leadership management, stuff about specific feedback, it's just another language for giving that specific feedback.
I mean, none of the strengths words are we like it's just the normal words and it does seem like common sense and it doesn't seem all that difficult.But yeah, we just don't do it.This just gives us a bit of a language to address the positive.So you might yet instead of just saying you're a good vet in might be that.
I love how you're curious and you look things up and you go and you sign up to them.Continuing education things or that I love how you're honest and you do tell us when things aren't working or you made a mistake, things like that.I think when we have those more specific words, we have a new language that helps people repeat those positive behaviors.
Just like Anatomy was really hard to learn and we both bit clunky using all those words of cranial and caudal and then they just became natural.And so it's just some more that we can use those words.I think helps people really internalized, the things that they do that are right about themselves.
So they're not like you're saying is going to this beating yourself up and all these negative thought patterns.So is the worker of you?Is that a place to talk about the negative things as well?Yeah, I just think we can talk about the negative things but use this positive language when we're doing it.
I'm always so worried there were these things when I had a team that I actually had to give feedback to of the shit sandwich.Because it mean that's a bunch of smart people.If you try to dress up negative feedback in a compliment or buried in a shit sandwich, there's at work, it doesn't really work.
I don't feel like, I feel like people that take care of that, I see what you're doing, trying to try to trick me with your positivity and actually, you should just come out and say what you want to say.Yeah, well it's interesting you say that because you're not that I feel like that was verbatim What the practice manager said to me.
The first two, as I'm gonna be Big fan of the shit sandwich.I think it's great.I am we all have different needs when it comes to feedback and it's actually been curious about what works for different people.So the shit sandwich might not work for you but it does work for me.And so if we assume a one-size-fits-all model for everybody, then I think we're kind of exclude people with different needs and I think if we can start to be a bit more open-minded and actually ask people, how do you want feedback?
How do you want to regulate, do you want to ask for it?Don't me to come to you with it.You only want to hear about bad things, you know, we can tailor it to different people's needs, but I think when we assume that everybody just wants it one way we risk sort of, really compromising some diversity and inclusion in our industry.
Yeah, that's the art of being a good leader, isn't it?It's trying to figure out these nuances of how to do these things.Well, if a great a work environment where Superhero conversations are commonplace and there, is that psychological safety, then really, when it comes to the performance review, or whatever you want to call it, they shouldn't be the need for negative feedback because you said it already because what often happens in your average weight practice with a normal human being who is the leader, who doesn't have Superior leadership skills is they'll hold all those little problems throughout the and then it's the, the annual review or something and then it'll be your very good bed.
I like I communicate by XYZ.It's it's, it's an overwhelming of is all the shit things you do.Which makes you feel undervalued in like, oh, what?I've been waited a year to hear you.Tell me all these little things that I should be doing better.Rather if there's a psychological safety where the feedback comes all day and this is little Minor Adjustments.
Do you address the little snakes under the rug before they become dragons?Way better scenario than trying to sit in that annual meeting the annual meeting should just be okay, where are we heading?We do want to be with your career in a year from now.How do you feel you've done?
We had a talk about this thing, six months ago, how we doing, rather than dumping all of those things in one go, which is, unfortunately, what often happens.Yeah.And I think then it goes down to your frequency.And do you have a structure around when you give all those other little feedbacks to avoid it or building up?
And I'm a big fan, I'm a planner.I think that if we don't make time for it then there will be no time for it.I mean, who's seen a quiet moment in a vet practice in the last two years?Like, we wait for a quiet day to talk about something that won't happen.
I guess, again, using those strengths that you can use those words in that, I think the idea of overplaying underplaying a strength of a for me, that sounds way less confronting than Just pointing out the bad behaviors.Just seems to come across and I think it just softens it a little bit.
Yeah, cool.So talking of masterful leaders I Googled you I looked at your profiles I saw a comment about Ted lasso the prison best leader in the world.Yeah what did you say?Anybody who doesn't know if you don't have ample plus Apple TV plus is a series on, they called tit lasso about a an American football coach who goes to coach soccer.
Football in the UK and watching him walk into a toxic culture and turning it around or working within it slowly working on it.There's a beautiful series and and I watched it and every episode I was like, this day is a leadership lesson.
This is how you lead the.Did you have any, did you watch it just for the pleasure or did you did anything that you watch this sink in for you?And Hugo, are I want to do that more?I want to see more of that in my workplace, or I want to be more of that at my workplace.Yeah, so I am probably one of the few people, I think in the world that doesn't have a Netflix account and got apple plus the free.
So I, when I go to upgraded my boat of, yeah, I've had a thought in glad the phrase subscription and anyway my husband got into and I have this appraised at Tennessee, whatever.So I don't know.But yeah, he was loved it because he's into sports.So he was just like great.
This is a show about soccer.My sister-in-law.Who's the pretty good leader has pretty important job.She was what started raving about it and I was just like, oh, she likes it.Maybe I'll like it.So I started watching it and then my husband was just like, I don't think you'd get into this.
Like, this is a sports show and I'm like, this is not Assad's leadership.Yep.So I liked it.I said, wow, Apple of created like that.Perfect.So that both the sports mad husband and the like you know, we had positive psychology interested, wife can enjoy together and guess what?
That means we Bond and we get some positive emotion, right?But there are things that I took out of it.The most I think is the idea.I mean, so the other part of abilities that tab has no idea about what soccer is.Things come from America, coaching American football to come and teach to coach soccer and he's really successful at it.
And it just shows us that we don't have to be the best on field 2.A, the best leader or to have something to contribute.The, Apparently, I'd say, Obviously, my husband did, obviously research the different, but I think his character might be based on this Italian coach manager, Arrigo, sacchi and so my husband gave me this quote, I'll credit him dear.
So you don't have to have been a horse to be a jockey is apparently what he said.And so he was a shoe salesman that actually coached an Ian's like a team to like World Cup Premiership and took them from Sir nothing.
So he had no he and I had a place like that and I think my observation has been traditionally in our industry that the best vet in terms of their clinical skills is gets is who ends up being the boss or in charge.And I know that whether that necessarily means that that's the best, they've got best people skills or the best way to approach and great people.
And can we Again, go back to playing to people's strengths and thinking about how they can contribute or got different things to contribute to the team and so the leadership.So I think that shows us that you don't have to be either being a horse to be the jockey like that, right?
So we talked about TV podcast, you listen to podcast I do when I have tight when I'm in a car so that's yeah, I Java log way to do emergency work because I get two hours in the car, with no children.Listening to whatever I want the favorites.
Unlike you, I'm too curious and I have too many but one of the ones that I probably listened to a lot is how to be awesome at your job.So I think that's showing you how much I worry about my failings in definitely got plenty to grow, but if I ever feel like a bit of a I laugh or feel like a notice of switch off from that learning.
Is I like chat 10, looks three, Annabelle, cravenly, sales, and it's all about books and shows that they've been watching and it's just their relationship is just so natural and fun as friends that you kind of feel like you're sitting in their living room with them and makes me just wish that I could be like praying for them to be invited into their party or something.
You want to say.Thanks a lot of Play-Doh.What was that one called again?I missed the name of the cat.Ten looks three jet 10.Yes, three.There's a reason behind the name but I've forgotten what it was.But yeah, I'm gonna have to look that up.
Okay, your last question the, you are doing a talk soon but let's say you have a opportunity to do it.Talk to all the veteran, new grains of the world all-in-one going.Got just a couple of minutes.It's going to be your one message.Listen to you got interested in something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't and I think they can apply that to try and find their first job.
We know how important it is that new grad start off.Well.So I think if things don't feel right, listen to that and the same with, yeah, find that often nearly always when I'm not sure what to do clinically or in any job I've done.
Is that like what my gut was telling me?Ends up paying, what was right, but of just should have just listened to it in the first place.So were you earlier in your career where you're not that good at this thing to, you got and laid, you, your head ledge to the wrong places.
I'm still not good at listening to my God.Now, I, yeah, I've definitely not been good at it, but I'm probably more aware of it now that I'm mindful of it.And I'm probably working towards getting closer to acting on it sooner.It's a hard one for us because again we are very head trained that our heads are the things to follow.
Then we were very cerebral in the work that we do.So forgot following does not come naturally to us.So yeah, challenge out there for our listeners.That was really epic is really lovely.Thank you so much for giving us your time and sharing your wisdom and for the bigger work that you're doing for being brave enough to take it on and to try and make all these positive changes in a Definitely needs it.

Dr Rebecca Faris