Sept. 14, 2022

#76: She said she would, and then she did. With Dr Jocelyn Birch Baker

#76: She said she would, and then she did. With Dr Jocelyn Birch Baker
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Season 1

It used to be that work was work: it had its constraints and limitations, and if you had responsibilities or interests that seriously clashed with those constraints then maybe the working world just wasn’t for you. But the people who make up the heart of vet practices today don’t necessarily want to make that binary choice. Many workplaces are trying to adapt to create space for a workforce with more varied needs, but there are challenges to overcome.

Dr Jocelyn Birch Baker is a veterinarian and a practice owner who is taking on those challenges with inspiring results. She’s built a practice that flexes to meet the needs of her team, and in doing so she’s not only created a flourishing workplace but also solved the twin problems of recruitment and retention. These days Jocelyn also helps other practices achieve the same for their teams through her consultancy venture, Smooth Operating Vets.

In this conversation, Jocelyn shares her story and the lessons she’s learnt along the way that has shaped the way the thinks and leads. We talk about bad decisions, hard lessons, choosing respect over competitiveness, living your values, finding the line between compromise and self-care, motherhood in practice, returning to practice after an extended break, and a better way to practice. 

 

Come say hello to us at The Vet Expo in Sydney on 26 and 27 October for some live podcast recording. Jocelyn will also be hosting a session there on creating mum-friendly practices. 

Go to thevetvault.com for show notes and to check out our guests’ favourite books, podcasts and everything else we talk about in the show.

Unpluggrow, connect and growh with us at our first ever Vet Vault Live conference with Prof Jill Maddison and Prof David Church in Noosa on 22-25 November

If you want to lift your clinical game, go to vvn.supercast.com for a free 2-week trial of our short and sharp highly practical clinical podcasts.

We love to hear from you. If you have a question for us or you’d like to give us some feedback please get in touch via email at thevetvaultpodcast@gmail.com, or just catch up with us on Instagram.

And if you like what you hear then please share the love by clicking on the share button wherever you’re listening and sending a link to someone who you think should hear this. 

 

Hello, vit voltas.Hey, that's my line.I'll do the intro, okay, but before you go off on a monologue, should we tell him about the news?What about the conference?Yeah, man, the conference, which one?The vet V live?I've been telling them about that.
No, no, never mind.I'll just tell you man.So human and I were excited because we're coming to hang out live with you in Sydney on the 26th and 27th of October, which is like a no couple weeks away.Next month, we are coming to the vet Expo in Sydney.
Now, it took me a bit of time to figure out what the vet Expo is all about because it's under normal lecture all day, get plastered it night with a little bit of networking on the side kind of conference.So here's what I've figured out, here's the official line, their vet Expo, brings the entire Veterinary, Animal Health and Pet Care worlds together a see this as a meeting of ideas.
And when IDs made, they fall in love and make lots of cool little baby ideas, they grow up and make massive ideas that will in time move our profession forward.We're talking two thousand attendees over 100, major Vet and Pet product suppliers as well as some of the most Innovative startup companies in the vet space.
So what does that all?Look like bungee and straight to the point 20 minute presentation.Since by some of the most Innovative Minds in Vietnam in between presentations, you can walk around the busy Expo, floor, and check out the new products and services that are out there to support your career and your business.Oh, and competitions fact, I've won something at almost every conference I've ever attended and freebies.
Oh, we love the freebies, my kids always get so excited.When I attend any vitamins, they won a bit Expo, ends with a friggin boat cruise.Gerardo, I'm picturing you and me Titanic Style.On the front of the ship as we sail through Sydney.Harbour, in fact, here's an event idea.
Maybe it can be a prize.If you come to a stall, Dorado will take a Titanic style selfie with you on the front of the boat.And then we'll see how many Titanic selfies with dr.G, we can get on vets, the graph but here's what we are really excited about.We have a kick-ass space at the Trade Center where we're going to set up camp with all of our recording equipment and a cost.
As many of the amazing speakers as we can to create a whole lot of content for the podcast.Live.And in person, we also going to dry out first ever live broadcast, where the live recording will go out to bed voltage across the world raw and unedited with the opportunity for questions and even audience participation, we'd love it if you join us on or off a so camera grid world history with us or watch us crash and burn in public.
Either way, it'll be entertaining.We've also got some cool swag and special offers to share with you guys and we'd love to meet you.So come and find us right near the cafe.To make sure that we have a total width W.Listen to take over at the event.We have a special offer for you from the team at The Vedic SPO use with v. 7t.
That's all capitals with v 70. 70, when you check out and your tickets for the two days will be $90 or 105 bucks if you want to join under the boat cruise, that is 70% of the standard pricing, so get your ass into gear come and see us there.
Okay.Now you can have your monologue.Thanks D.I've worked in some places where if you had to use the words mother and practice in combination with any f word.You'd be saying a sentence that my mother definitely wouldn't approve of.
But our guest for today, is changing, that actually scrap that.She's managed to change that dr.Jocelyn Burge.Baker's sentence would go.This is a mother friendly practice.Here's the reality.Things are changing in my parents generation.And to be honest, for the first part of the careers of me and my generation work was work.
It had its constraints and limitations, and if you had responsibilities and interest that clashed seriously, with those constraints, be at leisure, personal choice, other career interests, or even just kids.Well, then maybe the Working World just wasn't for you.My dad, for example, who was a doctor?
Had his work commitments and they were inflexible and inarguable work full time.Oh down work.That was with the choices but not today.This generation and I think my generation which is that weird little group stuck in between genetics and the Millennials are a part of this.
We just aren't happy with this Arrangement.The people who make up the heart of it practices today or any business is really don't necessarily want to make that binary Choice.Why can't I be someone with a career and be an involved parent or a committed athlete or be involved in something else?
Else that gives me joy but here's where things get tricky because some things haven't changed all that much.My mom was also a doctor but cultural norms dictated that she was also Mom the primary care.She had to do the exhausting dance of keeping the bosses at work, a and eventually becoming the bus herself while keeping the little buses.
That's me and my brothers, happy fed and nurtured sound familiar.Well, I say things haven't changed.That's not entirely true back to Jocelyn and her practice owners and managers and definitely recruiters are waking up to the fact that if we don't create space for a Workforce that has different needs to the workforce of two decades ago, that they simply won't have a Workforce.
And I'm very happy to say that I hear conversations amongst the decision-makers and for the most part, most of them are totally supportive of this change to a large degree because they are a part of this Workforce who wants to see a different way of doing things.But it's where the rubber hits the road, where things get tricky, how do we change the way of doing things, the way that they've been done for decades?
How do we gel the needs of our talent pool with the needs of our clients, which are many and the needs of our businesses, dr.Jocelyn Bridge baker has walked.This path is walking this path from employee, mum to employer of moms and now champion of the cause of creating Veterinary work places that fit around employees, rather than ramming them into the mold of what you think, your practice should look like, Join us in this conversation.
As we explore, how Jocelyn is a practice owner and the founder of smooth operating B.Which is a Consulting service that helps practices with the practicalities of grading, mum, friendly, workplaces or dad, friendly for that matter.Thank you very much.Jocelyn chairs about the experiences that shape the way she thinks about work about how she approaches these challenges, and what she's learned along the way that have shaped the way that she thinks and leads.
We talk about bad decisions, hard lessons, respect over, competitiveness, living your values.Use finding that line between compromise and self-care motherhood in practice returning to practice after an extended break.And a better way to practice, and of course, much much more.
Please enjoy, dr.Jocelyn Birch, Baker.I need both intra I'm draw Depot and this is the way it felt.Welcome to the vet.
Well, thank you.Nice to be here, allergies on the line today.I'll is on the line.He turns up from time to time, if I say, I'm always here just sometimes without speaking that's not possible.Justin should we start with?
Is this jumping informal?Let's start with bad decisions.Good stories are decisions lead to good stories or can lead to good stories.Have you got an example that fits with that for us?Yeah, it didn't feel like a bad decision at the moment at the time, like a trundle off and got married and kind of stopped my career and became a wife.
And then, I kind of realized, well, I was really not wife material and that didn't go very well.But I, am, I married a fellow.We went out his on a cattle station and I learned so much.I just learned so much and I really learned how to be quite strong and independent and do things.
Things and like, you know, we'd be mustering for days and it was great because we've been mustering and we just pull up the cattle and just wait while they settled or put him in a holding yard and then get a Core pots and our lunch out and start up a fire and just sit there and no one would say anything.
So it was longer than peaceful and quiet in the cowardice snuffling around and then all of a sudden they'd get up and we go and take him to the yards and this would happen you know a couple of days and then you do it again next week and it was really such an amazing lifestyle And I was driving trucks and just doing stuff.
And and I really learnt from that.If it's to be, it's up to me because you did for yourself, basically, you had to get stuff done if you needed to get stuff done yet and it even in town like we had a little town next to us called middle now.And if you wanted to set up a new club or or something, you could just go and do it like, oh, let's have a zonta club.
Oh okay, I'll be president and then oh, let's have a big breeding Cub.Okay?Oh, I'll do that.Okay?It was really cool.So opportunities abound, it was, it was really great.That's really great.And had two children and came back.When was that was that this was we were you of it then?
Or or was that before vet or after vet or I graduated in 83 probably before you to born here and you know you and I got married in 85, it was really really hard to get work during that time.
So I ended up will be called it the dull then, like on send a link for a few months that was devastating after five years of uni, and it honors and couldn't get a job.Like it was.What is discouraging?Yeah.And what seriously, they were just no good jobs going.No last-minute, 20-something years.
Here we are and I was in Rockhampton.Like, you know who comes to Rockhampton for a job?I my family's here.So yeah, it was really quite disconcerting.So you qualified and then didn't work as a vet initially.And then they ended the Mustering thing?No, no, I did work, I did get a job.
I came down to Brisbane and work down there for a while, and then come back up here and work for a fellow up here doing next practice.And yeah, like it was a bit tough.Like we were on call every second day.We took turns as only two of us and on our mobile phones and no computers.
Yeah, it was just different and and it was good.I learned a lot.Yeah.And then you in mastering after that he took.Yeah.So is it at the airport?Probably 13 years and then.Wow, when I was there, I got involved with the meat and livestock, Australia, and the beef week and the government started worked on boards and committees and emerald, our College Board just stuff like that.
So just broaden my Outlook and and what I could do, So, if you said you needed my strength for when we also have international listed.So but why does mastering, what does it mean in Practical terms?Oh yeah.Well, are on a cattle station like you have a string of horses and one of the lads, I'd go out and on the motorbike and bring them into the yard, and then we'd have our breakfast and travel up to the yard and catch a horse and either saddle up.
And, and the few of us are dried out from there down to the closer paddocks.Otherwise, we just pop them in the truck and took him down the In.So the place was thinking how big it was, but I know one of the products was 10,000, I could.So we actually did that in stages.Like you do one end of it and put them in the yard, you know, Brandi calves, bring whatever you going to do and then let them out.
And then we go to the other end of The Paddock and mustard are mean.But yeah, it was really calm.No.And I learned so much, these people I was with Incredible, horse people and credible cattle, people.They were very in tune with the land and the cattle and the horses so is is it was great to learn from them and then I did a bit of practicing and stuff around the area and and that again was a great because you'd go to another cattle station and that that have high level brahmins or something.
And you go.Okay.We'll just wait, we'll just let them make a decision of going to go into that race or not like you don't hurry them.There's different.Yeah and the dogs we had dogs.All right?And that were Grand.Yeah.Just working with the dogs that was fun and I can remember one time I took Gizmo my dog and My daughter Cassandra are like a sander would have been about five or six.
So we took these wieners back out now pretty steady, they'll fine.So I send Cassandra out in the lead and so she's on a little gray Pony, just at the front there and she must have opened the gate or maybe I have to go anyway, and the dog was just wondering about then we put the wieners into the swamp water.
And, and I'm saying I'll come back, come back now, come back.So she and a pony just walk right through the middle of all these wieners and Well, then what are you doing?You go around, you got around and and she just kept coming to me and I said, would you do, you will right through the middle of the way nose and that was settled.
So they'll fine and she said, Mommy, I thought you were talking to the dogs laughter.Whoops, because you tell the dogs that go around and I put a little while.But anyway, wake up boy, we had so much fun.Yeah.Wow.
An experience.So it's like like in the movies like the Romantic Vision that you get.Oh yeah, that's what I thought.Thought you liked one-bedroom, Cottage.
No power.We had a welder generator there and it was a bit hard for me to like, I wasn't quite strong enough to get it going.We time.So sometimes I just wait in the dark for someone to come home, Iran, and that's fine.Like, no, it was good.
It's different.It won't happen.Again, I listened to this and I just can't.We myself prison company.Inclusion is so soft.I was good with cattle, thank you that.And to like a 1200 kilo bull busted out of the crush as we were trying to collect.
Semen from it and it turned around and faced us.And then I was there with my massive, it kubra hat, which I thought was super sexy, and I was in 5th Year.And then I looked around everywhere else.And then the lecturer and half students, were behind the car, the other half of the students were behind the crush and it was just me facing off this ball about three meters away and I was terrified.
I didn't know what to do and I just went right and it ran away and I was like, oh my God, I almost died.People go there are you sure?Cause I was just too stupid to run experience a bit of stuff don't you join your life and yeah and then you respond react whatever you do and learn and move on.
Yeah so there's a lot in that, isn't it?Why don't you other major things that you think you took away from that experience that you've taken your to where you are now?Because you've achieved a lot.It did you learn things there that you didn't know before that you apply in our everyday life?Yeah, I think so.
I think I learned a lot of self-reliance because we just didn't have food on top.We didn't have phones, we just didn't have everyday staff and I really work with that.If it is to be, it's up to me.And I think my daughters have learnt that as well, they sort of have this thing with.She said she would and then she did.
So they know that they need to just, you know, run their own lives, learn to live their life, the And I want and run their lives.Yay.And not, you know, you got to compromise, you got to work with other people, but you don't have to give up too much of yourself to do that.And I think bringing up my children has taught me a lot of leadership skills with my people at work.
I do you encourage your children and your watch them and you watch them make mistakes and they come to you and they want you to fix it all and they go.Yeah, I can help you there but you have to kind of do it yourself as well.And All right, they're so precious to you.
Your children are so precious to you.You don't want anything to go wrong with them but you know, you have to teach them and help them be strong and just yeah, be themselves as well.Like, if they do something that you think we shouldn't do that, you know, that you're there for them, if it doesn't work out.
And it probably work out because just because I haven't got the strength to do something that they're going to do, doesn't mean that they don't they do and that's the same with our staff.Like they have amazing gifts.I bring to a clinic and I got my goodness.You can do that.Like you can do that surgery.
I couldn't do that surgery.Or working up cases, like, oh my goodness, these young ones, they are so smart, they just know stuff, I don't know, I just don't know it anymore.You know, we didn't learn it at Uni because it didn't exist.So it's quite an effort to keep your skills of people learning, keep learning.
And they just amazed me constantly with what they can do and how dedicated they are?They so want to save animals, just comes down to that.That you said something there which I thought maybe you came from your time away or just over.
I don't know like what you said there was really was vulnerability, right?And I struggle with this, when new grads or like a.So I went through a phase where I felt threatened by people with new low knowledge for a pretty long period of time.And personally, I found that after a period of time, quite constraining and also quite Tyree The way that I felt like as if I had to be the Pinnacle of knowledge in the hospital and then ultimately it's impossible.
And then you get to this point of allowing people to contribute and share with you and then you acknowledge the knowledge that they know that you don't.But what was it for you?Like you remember a point where you just go, whoa, these guys have something they can contribute to me and allowing that in, because I would find that a lot of senior vets and practice owners kind of Might struggle with that.
At.I think it probably comes right back to when we, we came back to Rockhampton and I hadn't practiced for 10 years, just a little glue Locum here.And there, I've just felt so far behind just didn't know something about stuff.I had to catch up anyway, and I work for a really great beds, and they were very kind to me with the hours that I work, so that I could be with the children.
And I was so respectful for them, and I just wanted to learn everything that they could teach me and I did do this any Red medicine and later on, I did the surgery wanted to try and catch up all the time.But yeah, I just love watching other people work.I mean, I work for a guy in your poon and I love watching them.
Do surgery.Like it was it was like like watching a show or something because he was so precise and so kind, and yeah, I don't know.I just always felt that you could learn more stuff and there's other people that know, stuff that I don't know and and all your lady yet the other day, Elizabeth it collecting collecting.
Has um man you know that?Yeah, we did that at Uni and I thought your don't need to do that anymore.That was me.I was like, that's one life-threatening thing, I'm not keen to try again.So I do find now as the practice owner, I really am happy to step back.
I don't need to control everything.I learn to delegate.I learned to watch people and say, yep, you can do that and then fact you do that better than I do then yeah.Appreciate each other and appreciate what the other person brings and One of their bets and this is really cool.
She went off on maternity leave and had a baby and she loves the research.He loves looking stuff up and working cases, right down to save an animal basically.So she's at home with the baby, our vets at work, a busy console consult surgery, do on the staff, burning the people and they come across a case.
They just want to like half an hour research done on it so they phone her and yep got that until mimo them back and give them a bit of A story, a bit of different Pathways to go and they'd read that the good nice little summary there that they can move forward on without having to pull out of the clinic and that was her skills.
She loved doing it.She still doing it.Yeah, she's great.You said also something you didn't particularly say, but you've said in stories and as a leader of a practice or people, you know, Mentor, you go to create these failsafe opportunities.For people like you, you kind of know inherently that things are going wrong and you could mitigate the risks but did Learn that as like when you're out mustering and kids walking around cattle and stuff and like, yeah, that's kind of safe, but not so safe, but it's, you know, they're not going to die.
So, I don't know.Like, how did you come to grips with that all or realize that too?I think that's probably from my parents because we actually grew up at Coral which is a little town just just out of here to what, and we had one teacher school so it was a mile from home to school.
So we used to ride our bikes and then Dad bought us some ponies.So we'd rather ponies to school and you know, no shoes, no uniform and certainly no helmets, had a couple of Buster's and my brother had a buster, and that's okay, we healed.
You know, we got back on and had another go and maybe win So I guess as a child and all honestly, we just roaming around that country all the time with their bikes and, you know, there was no market.So you'd be finding fruit on the fruit trees and mushrooms and whatever, like we take a fry pan and a bit of butter, and some matches out and pick mushrooms and have a nice little picnic and go home.
So we're allowed to do all that stuff.Just have adventures.And I've already encourage my children to have adventures and I mean they they did Pony Club show jumping and a little bit of venting and dressage.So we had a F250 truck and a gooseneck and way we'd go.
And I'd actually have to sit on a cushion because I couldn't see out of the front window windscreen, but anyway, and so there's the three of us traveling around in this, with this to big horses, and, and things are going wrong.You know, we'd get a flat battery or a flat tire, and you just kind of have to take a breath and, and go and fix it.
So it just life's like that isn't it?Things happen.And You just got to take a breath and go how can I deal with this?And they support your children and you support your people at work and we've had unexpected deaths at what with animals and I make sure I'm there for them, I go and see them that night and talk to them.
And Tell them we've all been there.It's okay.How come we readdress it?And at work, we do have, we've got our five rules.The first one is the intent is good, so we know every person in that clinic wants to do the right thing, that's why that they want to look after those animals and say those animals, the other one is Oh no blame policy.
If something goes wrong.Let's have a look.Why it went wrong?Have I not taught you enough?Have I not walked you through that?Were you tired?Was the phone ringing at the time.What was happening?Did you not have enough time to do that?We need to address that so we work through that as well.
What else do we have?No swearing policy so things.Don't get too hard ones.I know I paid you too.We do now and then and then we just laugh each other or they got to just learn here that and look for a funny.What else we got?
That's wearing I blind policy.No disrespect, we have little training sessions, where people are encouraged to call it out, not call it out because they want to ask that someone but call it out.Because if someone's short with you it might be because they're tired, it might because their death.
I don't know if you know that in here you're properly.So they snap back at you.I don't know, maybe that's it.Personality.We need to work with that.But we need to talk about it and make people feel comfortable.We have these great little resolution forms.So, the if there's a bit of a spat people have to fill in these forms about what happened, how it made them feel and how we're going to resolve this.
And then we sit together when we as a result its we learn so much about that person.About do that happened because that happened because this happened in your family are okay.We can work with that on the last one is Just book it in any animal, just booked it in so that we can try and look after it.
Yeah, I don't really like those that that has we fast-forwarded.We wanted to go, he will come back to a few other things, but we've got to dig into these the the five rules.I love that first things, I will say is I love that the call it outing.We recorded.I recorded the other day with Rhonda.
They psychologist that we've had on you a couple of times about compassion fatigue, and that is actually one of these strategies to combat compassion.Fatigue has to Call it out, she says, because the person who is on the road to compassion fatigue, or often is quite unaware of it, and will act out in certain ways that other people are often faster to pick up on to go.
While you not yourself, you're not normally a Snappy, always did this way, we don't know, that's where I'm from and then calling it out saying.Hey, are you okay?Because you really are not yourself, you're not as kind as you normally.Are you snapped at me earlier?
And, and That can actually catch them and make them re-evaluate and go.Yeah, I'm not.Why, what is up?Why am I, do I need a break or do I need as you said, Joe, I need the toilet or something like that.Yeah.Then how do you, how do you not not info?As it's the wrong word, reinforce or instill, these 5 rules and practice them.
You mentioned training sessions.How do you make sure?Cause it's very easy for for management to have leadership crew come in and say you need to figure out your values and your rules and things like that.And then it's Is the never spoken about again and it just remains in a folder on the Shelf somewhere how do you make a drill?
Oh yeah we talked about it a lot.We have meetings Nelly every week so we have a nurse meeting and training one week and the next week.Next week we'll have everybody meeting or meeting and training and then we'll have a vet's meeting and training and then sort of management with the Clinical Director, the practice manager and I and during those yep it's spoken about and and we so those those rules are my rules and I just said this is how it's going to be there in the mother and all they worked out.
The five values that they, they want as well, which a little bit different.But will often go look this.We're going to make a decision here about how we're going to respond to this client or how we're going to deal with this animal.How do they fit in with our values and our values?Our empathy, professionalism Integrity team and relationships and Jamie's put that in a bit of a sentence and it Tree.
And that is on.I will.So it's there.So when people come to having a make a decision, they can go, how does this fit with empathy and my relationship with this client with the pet and with our clinic.And it helps us work through rather than just going.Oh, this is how it should be.
And you're cutting it a bit and maybe not making such a good, that's really powerful, because a lot of people create values or they practices create values, but then they don't use those values as they guiding compass. - but then what you just explained there is this kind of how does my critics the simply how to use the values?
Yeah.How can we decide or how can we use these?How is a decision based on these five values and sometimes I'll spring it on.I'm in a meeting so Echo.What are five values?And, and it was funny one girl, she'd only been with us a month and she just stood up and she just recited the whole thing and all the others gun.
Whoops, lift our game.I can just send them a text.In the morning values replies.Yes.Can I take you back Joslin, you said earlier about when you started work again or more full-time vet work.So he said, how long did he do?
The mastering years of multiple MS-13 is and then that shift back to coming back to bed work.So how old were the kids then are they are they high school then kind of out your hair a little bit or still still very much a day-to-day thing.
There are Evan and 40 tiny living, like, yeah, yeah, full-time work.Then in itself that coming back to work and you mentioned that feeling of going iron, don't know anything or feel my eye.When you get that feeling after two week holiday or but sometimes development do it slow.
How did it you don't sound like you had a lot of ego around it which I think is really important.But how did you handle that?How did you not let it stop?You from being brave enough to go back to work and saying yeah like I am I do have the degree.I'm allowed to Do this.I'm going to start doing it again.
Well it's necessity.Isn't that you think to get a job?You need to look after your family and I think the no vets, it started up and are Regional and rural areas.I like the guys up here, couldn't get that.So I was extraordinary Lucky in that I could go in and like that, phoned me up and asked me to come under a local when I'd say, you know, having spider cat for 10 years and they go, that's alright, just come on in.
Okay, so the first day I I did was on my own dog.And yeah.Yeah.That well, it was tricky.You gotta back yourself for that one and it started bleeding.And anyway, we got through and then I work for another vet and he was very lovely and ended at the end of you.
I took my four-year-old because what you do with a four-year-old?My other one had just started school seven-year-old.So in our triangle with the little one and that makes it quite clear that I had these The responsibilities.And hate is a lovely family, man.He was, he was just great and we negotiated smells and it was casual.
I just watched what everyone was doing and did whatever I could.And I can't even remember like the anesthetics, watch the same.I think the spay your surgery was much the same.I think they've changed a lot in the last 20 years that I've been practicing.
But when I came back then we were still using bio and stuff and actually I I felt so blessed to be able to go and find a job that I loved and that it could become good at again.And yeah.And people want to me like to feel wanted is really important for people and respected.
Yeah, it was amazing.A lot of that's would struggle.Then with this big imposter syndrome, right?They come back.They have this they know and they feel this deficit knowledge and you know, just plays in their head.But I'm not good enough.
Not good enough.You said they're in the end.That something along the lines of, like, I want to get good at this again, but what was the mindset I suppose were your thoughts.When you got back into practice, it was you felt overwhelmed, you know, there's big gap between your knowledge and the knowledge.
You felt like you need to be at you said, necessity necessity is a powerful driver for change in hand for people taking action, but what was it for you?I think about it was really hard and I had just amazing support around me.
Like I made a lot of friends and the the friends I made through work they're really good.May help you through and they talk about stuff and yeah look up every case you come across and just talk to people and try and find out how to do things.I think I had a lot to deal with anyway because you know, going through divorce new new, when your career because everything I was doing before was the beef industry.
Now had no beef industry like hit it all gone.I was just this person in Rocky.So being a vet was really, really really important because that's what I could do, that's who I was.And yeah, I was going to be really good at it because I was prepared to do the hard yards and learn and work.
And when the kids were away, I just work all weekend, you know, whatever, whatever was there, I'd be there with the other vet.Yeah, do whatever, I could to learn whatever I could follow him around.It was a grand.Yeah.That's hot.I'm going to jump in here for a second.
I know you loving Jocelyn but I need to interject here to plug our clinical podcast.Because while that all about learning and a very easy and convenient way of learning, they are really also about confidence.Like you hearing from Jocelyn that feeling of not good enough can be crippling but instead of me going on about it, I'm going to read some extracts from a couple of emails received in the last week or so from subscribers.
The Clinical series is hands down.The best continuing education Source, I've come across for actually getting the stuff you want to know, or didn't even know.You wanted to know into your head.I've always struggled with motivation to pick up a textbook after work and there is so much to learn that.It's hard to know where to start, but your podcasts are so engaging practical and interesting such good experts that I look forward to new episodes each week even though half of the info we end up forgetting, you know, that you've listened to something on the topic and it's so easy to pull up the show notes especially now that they're in the Google Drive and At least sound smart to the clients so many times they've helped me out but for Show recently, after literally finishing the series on TVs, on the drive to work that morning.
We classic 5 p.m.Friday GDP came in.And although I'd only done one previously which didn't go, well, found myself being the one who knew what to do.This one is still alive.And then the next email that one made my day and the next email nice short one.
I have to say that I'd fallen into a little bit of a stagnant Funk and the podcast is really res Park my passion to be the best way that I can be and keep learning.Now if that sounds like something that you can use go and check it out at VV.N dot super cars.com to get out of that funk and be the one who knows what to do.
There's also a free trial so if you try it and you don't like it, just go ahead and cancel.I won't be offended.I don't think you will.And then if you want to do a real deep dive for a couple of days, while connecting with your fill of it, come and join us in Noosa from 22 to 25.November is also a shorter option available if you time limited but it's our first ever vid V live event with the Oracles of small.
Animal medicine Professor, Joel medicine.And Professor, David church.If you don't know who those two are and you've never seen them live and you should hit balls and go and book right now, you really are missing out the link for the conference is in the show description wherever you listening, we're having two days of Of really deep thinking and learning with these two all about endocrinology and clinical reasoning, but it's very visual style.
So lots of discussions, lots of questions, lots of cases and then beyond the clinical staff were also doing some serious unwinding.It is news after all.So, we are kayaking and we hiking and we are hopefully serving and tasting gin and eating ice cream and having Beach days.And we also have an epic for our session with Philippa Kernan from episode 70.
If you haven't listened to that one, do yourself a favor and go.Listen, we heard This one in a small town movie theater in the countryside, we'd love to have you there.So go to that side, that's in the show description and when you book use the code, Vivi listener.That's all capital letters at checkout to save, $300 on the ticket price.
Okay.Back to Justin.The scary thing.I know, well, I can making make it really personal.It's going to say, I know of lots of mum vets and dad.Sometimes I don't want to bet it's because of culture and tradition.
It mostly is Mom's but who are in that situation where they go on, you know, maybe we over the baby stage but it's been a few years and I'm reluctant to meant that maybe that necessity is not there, you know, maybe there is still another income so it's not like not like you're going to starve the Lose your home if you don't work.
Just just that hesitancy is really, really strong.And I think there's a lot of people out there guys.Should I work again and then beyond that lack of confidence.There's also the practicalities you should see still had those kids.You still had that foil so that you got to sort out daycare.
There's the finances around it.That's often a big decision.You look at okay, this is the cost of daycare.This is going to be my earnings doesn't add up.Doesn't really make sense for me to go to work.It's going to add stress to the family.It's gonna Anna.I'm going to have a kid in daycare is going to be sick all the time.
It's not worth 45 or 50 bucks an hour.I don't know.Have you mean this is what you do now with your new business as well, is you help people like that?How do you think about this?Now if you had to advise somewhere around and what do you say to all those very valid concern?
I see give it a spin, just I just love what I do.I could not be and like I got this.It's of us working.They were all mums.We love our children.Absolutely.We spent a lot of time with our children, but we want to be more than the cook and bottle washer.
You know, we've got the degree.We were very hard for that degree.We're very good at what we do these girls extraordinary good.So and I mean they are at that stage.Well when they came to me some of them were at that stage.Do I come back into the profession and you have those conversations with them would do want to how can we make it so that you You will love it again.
How can we make it so that your confidence will come up, your upskilling all that stuff?Because you know some of them have been a vet ten years and then they go out and have their babies.We want them back.We so want them back because the gifts that they bring a great even if they live one day.
Why not?What's that's great?One day of just being this amazing veterinarian?And then you can do whatever you want the rest of the week.Again, I don't mind but just have Right life.And if being a professional veterinarian is part of the life you want to have go for it.
Yeah, yeah.We just need to provide Pathways for them to come back if that's what they would like to do.So that's both the first step for them.Would be to look at the the way that they consider it identify themselves.Now as a, you know, dishwasher food maker home person kind of thing to.
This is how Identify myself now.But how do I want to see my self identify myself in the future could, which could be a thriving veteran, professional with a thriving home life, as well.So that first kind of flick of the switch in the head of the desire to want to be something different love and Thrive being at home.
It works really really well.And and I mean to be a vet or have a career it's not always the clinical.There's so many moms out there who can step into, I met a lady who works with Royal Canin at the And they're running their own businesses like wellness businesses.
And there's so many different Avenues and that's where I think we in the clinical Arena, get a bit caught up because we're not moving.We're not changing and these other businesses can provide different hours work from home, all that sort of stuff and maybe we're not providing it so much in the clinical sphere on that topic.
Maybe it's lateral d2g.We can, we can dive deep into the other stuff in a second.But I'd love that story that you told us about the verdoux was at home doing Some of the research, some of the reading.And was that a paid gig like the chicken paid for this angle?Was that?Just because I've thought that for ages when I was back in busy GP practice, this case is that you can theoretically manage but you just need a bit of time to do a bit of reading and sit down, but then on a busy day and you've got five space and another skin counseled, so you don't get time to sit down and read about that.
Dka case, or that really complicated.So, then you bump, you send them off to specialist in, or often get stuck with Feelings of guilt of going.Well, I don't think that got the K that I could, theoretically have given it purely because of lack of time, not a lack of Desire.I've often thought having somebody like that and off-site person to say, hey, because you can find a Specialist Clinic, but they just as busy.
Hey.That just dropped everything to read about your case right now, and then give you free advice, that's a cool thing.I do still use that, do you still have somebody off side?You can help with okay because that that fits actually stepped up The Clinical Director.Even though she does Every second weekend, she does Clinic because we share after hours with another clinic and she does one short day and I think she's stepping up to another short longest day.
So she's Clinical Director.So yeah, we find her and she organizes like the veteran stuff.We pay for everything every hour that they work for us, we pay for, if they come in for a meeting or a zoom meeting, we pay for that.Why not?They're working for you.And after hours, we pay really well.
Well, I think we pay really well in the girls are really With it and we have another song called as well.So that if that needs a nurse we're just that knows us knows that she's game on and can pop in there and work with them and the client pays for all that like that's they they get the work done.They pay for it.It's fine.
It's that's how business Works, isn't it?Okay.Two things.One is the one you said there is acknowledgement of time as business owners to requite off to the think that I will.We provide all these other things.You know, why can't they just turn up to this thing for?
Free or?Yeah, it's just it's just two hours and it's Shifting, the mindset towards really.It is, I feel as acknowledgment acknowledgement of everyone's time, but we with your Clinical Director.Like, did she discovered that strength?
Or or did you help her?Like, how do you help as a business owner?Help your team discovered their strengths and and then work together to leverage that to create alternative career opportunities.I think just having conversations, you just sit down every now and then and you having this conversation and saying hey you're going home and yeah, yeah.
Alright and yeah we're busy at work and just evolved she just have conversations with people.Cuz I watch watch this bit work for 3 to 3 years.I know how amazing capable she is.
And I know she's on to that research, she gets right down to the nitty-gritty of things and I know she'd love doing that and we needed that done because the bats with covid with everything things just got a bit busy and a bit hairy and they want to provide that extra care.
They always want to do the best best best they can do and our specialists.My nails away and we had one really sick, dog?And the roads were flooded and we could even get it to them.So these things happen, you're gonna have some strategies in place to look to the Future and think, well, what could happen, and how could we manage that?
And here's this letter home, with all this Talent, why aren't we including her and alter their maternity leave?They come into any trainings, any new equipment, come and see what we got.They just pop in whatever they're always.Of me so that I can catch up with us and, and out of that again, you get the conversations because you hear how they going and, and you know, what they can do, you think, would you like to do these?
And they go, oh, yeah.Or on this baby's not settle.Yet, can't do that yet.I'll think about it later. what I would acknowledge you there then is it the Well one, it's as you said their talent, right?It's acknowledging that telling, right?
And then also the same time its flexibility.It's like the conversations you're having it around.Retaining talent to some degree and everyone transitions, everyone gets to a point where I feel like I've done this enough, no more tries to make different and then a business owner, can get caught within the confines of what does a the standard Veterinary Courier look like, what should a veterinarian do?
And they had the stereotype of this, you know, roll this is the role that the vet plays but it sounds like, for me, what you were saying is identifying Talent having conversations Around Talent and passion.And then being flexible to leverage that to some degree.
Leverage is not a great word, but it really is, we need to leverage it.You're giving someone the opportunity and then you create opportunity as well.Is that what it is for you?Yeah.Yeah.You know, we can't get beds here in Rocky.Why why wouldn't we do everything?
We could to work with the vet so that they can help us and fulfill their Ambitions and that's how I feel.There's probably a lot of talented women.Out there.That Marian's, who if we had a way of bringing them back ahead, a way of connecting with their gift whatever it is they'd come and play a role in in our Veterinary profession and it.
Yeah.Why do we stick with this classic veterinarian?You know with the long socks and shorts and you know I don't know how many times all my life people have to me go well you don't look like a veterinarian.No I don't know what in the 80s so I guess I've always been thinking well what are the different things we can do?
Why do we have to?Stick to the sign.I'll sign em.Oh, I get bored pretty, with that are so curious about these things out.Because again, there are talks about flexibility and it's easy to be flexible and some things then there are other things around practice.And this is more thinking from a practice owner perspective that are all maybe there aren't.
But they feel like they are less flexible and there's a clash day because you have, as you said, we have this Victory crisis.There are no weights, everybody shouting.Well, the Reds probably a lot of them are sitting at home.Because of the situation they've their mom is a talented, they want to work but I can't work until 6:00 7:00 at night because he's going to pick the kids up what's gonna happen when the kids are sick.
I can't afford a nanny because my patient sorry swearing sorry it's just makes no sense for me to work with you as my partner earns twice as much as me and somebody going to take care of the kids.So all these things that we get stuck on, what are the things that we perceive as inflexible that creates that clash between Moms and workplaces victory.
Workplace.Is that that you think we as a profession?I getting wrong.That can potentially change.That's a big question.Sorry.Okay.What's that?Leave the ads.That's a depressing time that wanted full time or part time, you know, and you know, full, well, they won't pull time.
I do see a lot more ads, coming out flexible and Casual.So that's really nice.But Superstar Really, I'm at home.Nursing my baby.Oh my God, I feel like a superstar at this moment in time.Just just the wording of some of it is quite depressing and and, you know, and also the experiences.
And I talked to some beds when I was at the conference, the other day and they were telling me about their experiences and of course, my girls as well.I've just working like you're working.And next thing you're working 30 hours and then you're working 40 hours and then it goes up. 20, can you just stay and do this?Can you just yeah, I can't, I have to be out of here like our mom who has to be out.
And help us to to pick up her children.She leaves at 2:30.She only does consult.She does not get involved in procedures or any surgeries she does consult so that she can finish her consult and walk out that door when she needs to.That's a hard thing though.I it's I like it because again, it makes sense but there's a couple of things is the practicality then of, but they wanted that thing does walk through the door and then even if it's practical, then the one who walks out the door feels guilty because certainly the people I work with Carol, I feel like I've had people say, I feel Really guilty because when I stick to those parameters that I have to stick to that, I feel like I'm ditching the rest of the team and they've got to pick up the slack.
Is that a mindset?It's a mindset.You've done your job.You work till that time.You've done your job and you said we're going to do some time management training because sometimes he's, you know, things drag on a bit.People start having a chat but no she knows, she has to be able to, then she works towards that the other day.
I was there sort of filling in the afternoon and And she did have the consult.They were two dogs.She did have the consult, she had to go.I did the other dog.It's okay.You know, why can't you share a console?Like it's two different dogs, we know the story.Another thing we got to make a practical like, why not, but and if it emergency comes in and this is something I wrote about and emergency comes in your nurses, know what to do with that emergency that that can sit down and say, okay I've got us.
Emergency tell that people.Whiting, I just need to address this battle, understand that the hook cool, an emergency, you just said your nurses.Can you do this, this and this?And this, this for me, and, you know, they might be busy as well, but I'm sure they can take a bit of time out to just get that animal settled, like, 20-30 minutes.
Get the animal on fluids.Do some blood's, whatever, needs to be done, get it settled, your painkillers, and then that they're can finish your consults and go to it or deal with it and then finish a consoles or the next vet that's on will be Able to do some consoles but you have the conversation with the owners, excuse me, we've had an emergency, please understand that we have to deal with this before you can vaccinate your dog and they love it.
They think that's Grand and they can tell their friends about it.And I went to the veteran had this emergency and that's blood everywhere.And, and the that's got there in the nurses were looking after, you know, it's Grand another thing that we're doing and this was a surprise to me.The girls came to me and said, can we finish at 5 o'clock instead of 6:00 I'm going as a permanent change.
Yeah, yeah.Oh yeah.And I oh, whoa, whoa, how we gonna do that?And they said, well, we could stay late one night.Okay.Okay.So we're going to get that spin in, will start in August and, you know, their home with their family at 5:00, when the kids are just given everyone, heck, you know, they, they are unsettled they home from school, I got homework stuff to do.
That's the time that your family can Going to come together and we still available.We're still on call, we're still available to our clients that time of the day with kids to be.That's already good at, excuse, not to be at home.Sorry, I'd love to be there, but that's so cool.
When that did, I don't know if you listen to the Philip mckernan episode, Jocelyn the cheddar head of the man and that this brings to mind that thing that he said to me about, When I said yeah but we have to and he said, no, no.You you think you have to as a practice as business as a culture as a way.
We ran things we think we have to do these things but every says we have to, you don't have to be little save and you don't have to finish that whole console yourself.You can actually tap out and say, hey, can you help me?Yeah, you said a couple things there, which I think frames the flexibility that you create within your practice and that's the And because you the instant reaction.
Oh no, you know, or it can't fit because of it won't work because of you know.And for me that's as a hospital director was a hospital.Director was like the that's the instant kind of structures.This this is the process, this is the procedure.
This is the way the hospital runs but then what you said there was, you said do things and I think they're powerful questions.One is, why not why not like Like why not give this a go, why not?Yeah, it's like you because we often think that decisions are irreversible.
We make a choice and we can't go back and if it has to be 100% correct.But and that's one of the big things that holds us back as a drag anchor and a career.We think that, like decisions are final and but you just roll with it after, and then you adjust and changed, you be flexible with the outcome.
But so one is why not?And the second thing is you said hi.How can we make this work?And I think that's probably the most powerful question.There is how okay, so you want to stop at 5, or how can we make this work?It's I think the mindset, you have is a kind of how, why not learning and flexible mindset.
And I think that's Contributed greatly to where you are, and my partner.He's Like no Veterinary know, like not even a dog, like no Veterinary experience at all.When we stepped in a flying High Street, he's a hydrographer by profession.
So good with numbers, that's good.You can do the pays and the number stuff and he kept saying, why are you doing it like this?Why did you consult in the morning and procedures in the middle and then concert?Why do you do it like that?And I guess that's where I've had to think about it because I've had to have answers for him because that's how we've always done it and it, Can you do differently?
You know, I'm not sure.Maybe think about that.Like, do we do what I spies at night when the babies are settled?I don't know.I don't know why not.So other things that you guys do vastly differently that you found works, not vastly, but that's just not the standard Norm for GP practice.
Oh, you're not allowed to share your secrets to?Yes, I don't think we Veer too far, off the normal.Air practice doesn't consult surgery, xiana stuff.We try very hard to do really good work.We work very hard with our communication with clients and setting expectations.
We do that very, very well and connection with the clients all the way through.If they're animals in hospital, they'll be phoned up.Constantly updated videos sent, you know, all that stuff.Particularly after our.So it will send a little video saying no, I'll make Doing just fine.Everything's okay go to sleep so yeah.
I don't know this vastly different from other clinics.I think it's just that embracing the part-time work just embrace it.It's the future gig economy.You know, heaven knows I you know, written stuff about oh well, what if we have yet you say, oh that's five space today, who is in to do five space, they do the five space and go home.
I can do Post basil, my kids, wherever you don't have to do everything and it is inserted.Me.Nobody does 24-hour consoles.Like they can come in and out.You just, yeah.Do your bit and then leave you don't have to be there. 24/7, you've got backup, you've got your mate, you've got your other vet, they know exactly what's going on.
You've filled in all your paperwork beautifully, you've had a quick text or conversation with them, they know the owners, they know our structure.So they know the owner knows what's going on, as informed, okay.Something you said earlier, that I find, it was Of your five rules that I wonder.
How does it not clash with what you're trying to achieve with the flexibility for a rule?Number five, just will get in, that could be a hard rules.I've worked in lots of places with that's the rule but then you have.So on the one hand, we talk about.Well we've got to set boundaries with our clients.Otherwise, this is the pathway to a better leaving the profession, because you've got a busy day and then just booked the next thing in.
It's an overload and overload thing and there's the practice owner and the wine and sake, just book it in and approve.It say, Stop bugging.She did.I'm right.How does rule 59 to ruin this beautiful environment that you've created a rough?I've just repaired because the nurses were sort of, you know, and that's trying to solve the problem over the phone.
Hmm, I've got some just from that.But now, yeah, we're busy.And we're going, okay, it's a vaccination.It does not have to be done today.You can book that in next week.Okay, so just book it in.Doesn't mean now it means isn't my name.No, no, no, triage tree.
Yeah.Yep.And we use these to get and it's everything's blocked like this lunches are blocked out that discharger times a blocked out nurse discharge times.You know everything's got its place so that you can look at your thing and know, okay?
I've got space in there to pop some X-rays of that dog that I saw this morning or if I haven't I'll see if the nurses can do it or yeah find a way and it doesn't always work.That's okay too.But the end of the day A is working.So K.Yeah.
Sounds like a great place to work in.So some like it would you let's go to say, I don't come to work there but would you take your mail or was it Mom's only, we've got a student in there.That's a mile for kid.
It's just us girls Jane but yeah, it's it's not by Design.Like you don't have a preference to employ female waits for moms or female.Why night this?There's not a lot of mail that's out there.That's that's another thing.Oh, we did have a vet student mail come up and he's a rookie late and I thought, oh my goodness, this is gonna be interesting.
Anyway, he was there for two weeks, I think.And he was the nicest nicest loveliest person.You could ever made.Here was absolute gem.Yeah, I would love him to come and work for us but I think he wants to do but a catalog that makes.So yeah.One day.
He'll come back to Smalley's.That'll be nice.Yeah, they definitely We remember those memorable experiences and the environments that they do prank work in and that sets, the, it sets, the the bar, every time they go somewhere, they get this bar and it frames what a practice should be like or what I liked about her practice.
So the value that you delivered was amazing but also at the same time, if you deliver exceptional experience then yeah, if they do want to go back then they know that this is a place where I want to go back to Well, if you have that vets are students that have done pretty quick with this and then come back to us.
Yeah.And they'll be, we have to be.I'm always am mindful about talking about women and moms and it shouldn't be a differentiated we shouldn't differentiate, but culture does.So that's why we talk about it.
The reality is, it is traditionally the way it is, but men that vet student that you had mailed it student, that might be the reason why it comes back because he also would like T to spend time with his family and do other stuff and because there is that on the flip side there is that expectation?Well you're the breadwinner so you can just do all those massive days and suck it up because that's just what middle-aged men do.
I try and avoid that but that is sometimes feel like people judge me for it.Yeah and that they can't keep doing that.It's not people burn out and suffer and its really tough like what you got one life you better enjoy that life.
If you want to be a workaholic and local at Tom, that's fine and do it but you're not.Everyone wants to do that.They do want to enjoy their life and it go skiing or that girls have been skiing or recently.So it's in my head but Yeah, spend time with your family, go out.
I mean we live here we can go to the islands in half an hour in the boat or west of North anyway.Like you can travel around and one of our vets got a campervan says she and her husband the baby.They just go every weekend, every second weekend because she works for us the other ones and get out of here and go camping.
So I think for the whole Veterinary profession, I think re looking at the the work times and live-work spaces would be a really good idea.And just to add their it's like for them to be able to do that.Requires two things is one just for them to discover and get clear about what it is that they need or they want outside of their career.
And then a workplace that has a progressive mindset, where they allow agility flexibility.And you may be adding the Sessa T2 you need that in order to retain.But it's a combination of the two as opposed to the vet gets to a point where, you know, generally they get clarity from a burnout Period, or something like that.
You know, some kind of necessity where they'd just gotten crashed and they're like, now, I need to re-evaluate.And if you match that, that with a practice where they don't have, they have this rigid structure.It's because we do this because we do this, then that vent obviously is going to leave.Where as it sounds like, the environment that you've created is one of collaboration and and with mutual goals and outcomes.
And how can we work together to do the things that we want to do?Yeah.Well, the Elaboration is really really important within our clinic and like they do a tag team when they're on, call one will do Friday night.So I think that's kind of right about because it's ABC that Andy and, you know, two of us worked Friday, and then another vac did Friday night, and then one of the Friday that's did Saturday morning.
And another that did Saturday through to Sunday, and as someone else did Sunday night, and they just just pass it on.I mean, who even says you have to be on call for Three nights in a row, because it's a weekend.Yeah, don't it just don't and they collaborate.I don't even need to fear with that.
I don't know what's going on.I just know someone's going to be there.Jamie are practice manager, she'll know.But I just know that they've taken on that responsibility.They will look after the clinic and when they go holidays, she'll say who's interested in these shifts and now fill them to vets went on holiday recently.
So I had to fill one or two, which is really cool.I loved it.I loved going back in and doing it.Bit of surgery.So it's collaboration.We work together.You're going to work together.It's great.It's so much more fun, such a positive attitude.And maybe this is the upside of the whole recruitment crisis where people will be forced to say, well, how can we do this differently?
The old model is not working.What can we do that?That's going to be better.And maybe we'll solve two problems at once because the old problem of burnout and attrition and people leaving because again, the old system clearly didn't work for everyone, so maybe the the Maybe of this crisis will be a sustainable career where everybody can find their Niche and it instead of being forced to fit into the traditional role of what if it looks like, you don't look like a vet because you're not at work and you're not burned out and you don't look exhausted.
You're smiling too much near laughing.You're laughing too much.But I had I just talking to one of its this morning and she said, one of the Vets brought in hula hoops, they're all at the back there.See if they can do the most hula hoop, things, whatever you do with hoola Hoops.
So you know, that's how they spend their lunch hour, good on Sunshine.But I really think just eternity in there.I really think that all our professions and all our work places in the whole of Australia Hall of world need to start addressing this issue.
I just hear from my daughters and other professions.They don't know how they're going to cope how they're going to manage it once they have a family.And they're highly, he's a talented, professional people who are doing amazing job.So I think we all need to have a bit of a conversation and I look at it.
That's amazing.All right Denise you've got anything else.G should we wrap up with our you listen to podcasts Jasmine.It sounds like you.Do you found you found us on a podcast and you guys?Yeah.Well what about that story?And I love that grief one and I think you said the lady's name before that was Rhonda I'm amazing and I you know how your vet will sometimes come to you or not, you're better stuff.
Anyone and to tell you about something and you go I would like you to listen to that podcast or you know your grief one.This is the time of you need to listen to this because what you said and did was the right thing and this will clarify it for you and help you understand more about it and that you are right, you are good.
It's 10 minutes to work so I don't get a lot of time to listen.I don't drive as much as I used to, when I was at West.I listen to a little bit about women's agenda, as As you do, you probably don't, but I do.But books, books are my thing.
I just love bugs.I love libraries, I love workshops.And I just just love reading books and books and books, and the ones that I love are the e-myth veterinarian.I think every practice on it should read that and so I'm a cynic had greater say yeah that listen to his yeah his podcast and you've all Harari he wrote home is DUIs he's yeah that just opened my mind to what's going on.
Sapiens was the first one, there was another time shifting in a lot of ways.Like that changes are so same author but the book called sapiens just about yeah humans about what we are and how we think and how we up.In way, we came from lot of those things, you go.
Oh, wow.So yeah.Okay, the penny drops like yo that's what I happens.That's what happens.And that's what is probably going to happen and then the last question you guys are at a conference.I see you as speaking in a few conferences.Coming up one laser to the veteran new grads of the world.
What's your what you want a little bit of advice?Look at it that are entering just the most fantastic wonderful, wonderful career that that you could.Have, but they got to look after themselves.So the animals fix the animals, prevent Pine and disease, but not at a cost to you and your family.
You got to have your barriers not give too much.You know, you see people just give and give and give because they care so much about the animals.You can't say that every animal in the world.It's not your responsibility.Everyone needs to take that responsibility.
Don't take it on yourself, but do good work and you'll be fine.Thanks so much.That's really cool.I like that.I love the work that you're doing.Thank you.I love you too.Yes, thank you for joining us.

Dr Jocelyn Birch Baker