July 10, 2022

#72: Re-defining veterinary nursing, with Ken Yagi.

#72: Re-defining veterinary nursing, with Ken Yagi.
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Season 1

70+ episodes into the podcast, and not a single episode with a vet nurse. Shame on us! But we're changing that with this episode through a conversation with a vet tech who is leading the charge into the future of vet nursing.  

Kenichiro Yagi is Chief Veterinary Nursing Office at the Veterinary Emergency Group (VEG), where his role is to help develop career pathways in veterinary nursing and raising nursing care standards and competency.  Ken is a Registered Veterinary Technician and Veterinary Technician Specialist in Emergency and Critical Care and Small Animal Internal Medicine with a Master’s Degree in Veterinary Sciences. He also serves as program director for the Recover Initiative, a global effort to standardise how veterinary CPR is performed around the world. He’s received a whole host of awards, including veterinary technician of the year in 2016, and he’s been pushing the standards of nursing for two decades through his teaching and training, speaking and writing. 

"There's a lot more to veterinary medicine than just being a vet, and there's a lot more care that the patients need. And I've certainly created my own career out of it." 

So who's this episode for? Well, we've always been a podcast primarily for vets, and that hasn't changed.  We’d love for this conversation to help open the eyes of our vets to the possibilities, the talent and the passion that is right under your nose and to give you some ideas of what that talent is capable of and how you can help steer it. But it's definitely also an episode for nurses and techs. I challenge you as a nurse to listen to this and NOT feel the desire to find new ways to extend yourself and to make even more of a difference! Ken’s story is a real eye-opener about what is possible in your nursing career in the right environment. 

Also - who's joining us live in Noosa in November with Prof David Church and Prof Jill Maddison for what promises to e the most fun vet event of the year?! Details are here - but don't book there - email us at vetvaultpodcast@gmail.com to tell us that you heard about the conference on here and we'll send you a listener-only discount code.  

Go to thevetvault.com for show notes and to check out our guests’ favourite books, podcasts and everything else we talk about in the show. 

If you want to lift your clinical game, go to vvn.supercast.com for a free 2-week trial of our short and sharp highly practical clinical podcasts.

 We love to hear from you. If you have a question for us or you’d like to give us some feedback please get in touch via email at thevetvaultpodcast@gmail.com, or just catch up with us on Instagram. And if you like what you hear then please share the love by clicking on the share button wherever you’re listening and sending a link to someone who you think should hear this. 

Hello, big brothers and welcome back.I apologize.If you hear some background noise during this intro, it's raining on the Sunshine Coast again.And my office / studio is attention, which is not a great combination in the rain.Also, if while listening to me speak during the actual episode, you find yourself having the immense desire to put a strip solo, some kind of a throat lozenge into my mouth.
I apologize.When we recorded this conversation, I was on the tail end of writing the covid train, and it was 5:00 in the morning.When I chat It to kick in because of the time difference and while we're talking about apologies here's something that really needs an apology.We are 70 plus episodes into the V8 v, a podcast for the vet profession.
And we haven't had one conversation with a witness or a vet tech.Now, I have excuses.We actually did discuss this question about whether or not we should extend our content to cater for specifically nurses, as well as Bates, even right back at the Genesis of the podcast.
And we decided to stick to the Narrower Whitney's, mostly because we're not nurses.And while we can talk with conviction about red stuff, we felt that there was some excellent broadcast out there for nurses by nurses.So we leave it to them, but it's also about telling about some of the attitudes in our profession, right?
We, and I'm talking about the collective.We spend a lot of time and energy on vets with education and wellness and career progression and and and, but then we tend to treat support staff as a bit of an afterthought.It's probably time for a change.In fact, as you'll hear from this conversation support staff is probably not even the right term the days when a nurse was a, and let's be honest and easily replaceable relatively cheap commodity, oh, well, and truly behind us.
So let's talk about nursing first.Let's talk about our guest who is kin yagi.Can a Cheeto Yogi, is the chief Veterinary nursing officer at the Veterinary, emergency group of age in the US, where his role is to help.Develop career Pathways in which we nursing and raising this in case standards and competency.
And for someone who claims to be socially awkward, he has had a hell of a career.During his 20-year career, he's helped redefine what the role of a veterinary technician or a nurse is, or can be by constantly living his mission of promoting, compassionate and Progressive Care for patients.
And their families can is a registered Vision technician and Veteran technician specialist in emergency and critical care and in small animal.Internal medicine with a master's degree in veterinary sciences.Then worry explains what this means in the interview.He also serves as the program, director, for the recovery initiative, which is the global effort to standardize, how visually, CPR is performed around the world.
He's received a host of awards, including the veteran technician of the year in 2016, and he's been pushing the standards of nursing for two decades through his teaching and training, speaking and writing.Now, who's this episode 4?Well, we're sticking to our guns.
This is still a podcast, first, and foremost for vets.So, this is for anyone who's ever employed with or worked with, or had the, but saved by or argued with laughed with cried with and anyone in general who's ever depended on a witness hands up.
If that to you Also, I'd love for this conversation to help, open your eyes to the possibilities, and the talent and the passion that is right under your nose.And to give you some ideas of what that Talent is capable of, and how you can help to steer it.
But it sure as hell is also an episode for nurses and protects.If you're a nurse and you listening to this in first of we love you, we appreciate you.And second, I challenge you the nurse to listen to this and not feel the desire to find new ways to extend yourself.
To make even more of a difference.Ken story is a real eye-opener about what is possible for someone with the right drive, if they are in the right environment that can accommodate that drive.This never been a better time than now.It is a new era and this conversation with kin will show you what the future of witnessing can be.
Please.Enjoy Ken yagi, omnipotence dress, I'm Gerardo:.And this is the weight belt.Can you argue welcome to the vet Vault, thank you for having me.
I was so thrilled to talk to you.We've had a few people from your team on the podcast already and they've all been really interesting discussions.All really passionate people.Obviously, this one's a bit different though, because we're talking about nurses, even though this is a podcast aimed at vets generally, I do really hope that we have takes in this is listening to this and that they get something out of this.
Because they are, they, are you are?I think a very under neglected As more of a where, I think a bit of a neglected group in the profession, there's a lot of focus on veteran well-being and the vet careers and how do we make it sustainable?But then there's this massive group of the backbone of many hospitals, really that to get a little bit neglected, and it's a bit sad because incredible people and they have careers, as well as a so exciting for me to come across your profile and look at your work to go Allis, somebody who was pushing that word career, not just the support team or something like that.
Actually people with clear, we want to go places and then you As an example of, how do you take this career, taking it to the next level?So, I'm thrilled to be talking to you.Now, let's start with the I gave you a heads up about this one.Bad decisions question.I once I was driving along a road and I saw graffiti on the wall that said, bad decisions lead to good stories, which is the, which made me think a little bit and I want to know, do you think that's true?
And if so, do you have an example of a story that fits with that?I'm sure it's true.It was be really good story about a bad decision stuff and I I thought like, you know, well it's probably also that it's not always because bad decisions sometimes leads to really bad stories but some of it's true, I guess.
I thought about my own example that I started out actually going to vet school thinking that I was going to be a veterinarian but I ended up not following through with all that I thought of this as sort of like a was it a bad decision for me to decide to move away by myself, into one of the hardest programs out there to go through with no support structure?
Or was it that a bad decision to when it came to it?Not stick.Kicking it out and pursuing that degree like hey, I said, maybe maybe that's a bad decision but it's certainly led to finding my place and path and veterinary medicine as a Veterinary nurse educator Advocate walking alongside all the leaders Paving the way for the next Generations to come.
So I think it is still a good story.That's interesting.So you'll often get I've made several stories that are different in people that do nursing first.And then go, I think I'm going to go do it and then do the right thing.But you did it the other way around.Why the decision to just not do it in the end.
Yeah man.That's a hard question because back then this is like over 20 years ago.I was in vet school.I felt like going to our classroom that we spent the most time in was in the basement.So walking down into the basement.
Anytime in this box of a classroom listening to all the lectures, hitting the books and trying to take in all the academic information behind it, then click with me as much as the John that I had at the time, working at the medical genetics, Colony working with animals and so the direct Hands-On animal work was a lot more.
Satisfying at least in that moment.And I think it's also that once I stopped going to school and went back into work as a veterinary assistant.And there was a moment where a now friend, you know, mentor of mine visited the practice to give us a little bit of continuing education and the way that I was introduced to her was that the owner brought her into the lunch room where I was at.
And he came in and said, oh and here's the guy that used to be in vet school but now he works as a tent and that was like one of the most embarrassing ways to be introduced but and I wanted to disappear in the moment.But Nancy, Who is the Mentor, just kind of looked at me and said, well, do you like it?
And that was kind of like the flip, the switch for me.Where that question, the answer to that question immediately was yeah, I do like this is what I like to do and so so I think that I realized that there's a lot more to veterinary medicine than just being event and there's a lot more care that the patients need and I've certainly created my own career out of it and so no regrets here.
That's cool.That's a brave decision isn't because there is a last episode was sort of hinted at the decision that all at the topic that a lot of people do stuff including with a degree because of external perceptions or except estate.This thing I've got to do this thing and actually just want to work with animals.
They don't need to have the high state is it just wanted to work with animals?I love that.You had the courage to go.Yeah, this isn't for me, I have a passionate, I'm going to do this other thing and I love that you like it so much.How did the animal thing happen?It's out because even before you did very You said, you worked in a, what was that?
The animal related job that you mentioned before before you went to med school, that was when I was in that school that I worked at the medical checks on the as a part-time job as I was in school.Okay.Cool.And then before that the career and animals had it.But when I was 10 years old came like, you know, what was he doing?
So taking a little bit further from 10 years old.But in high school, there was a point in time where I thought that I would came to a sudden realization that I'm a junior in high school.I need to think Ink about whether I'm going to go to college or not.What am I going to do for life?And I had no plans at that point.In time, I had to quickly, think about what I was going to do when you mention the status thing, it's pretty interesting because my thought process was that people who are from my background or my culture very much.
Revere people who go into medicine and become a doctor and that's a status thing.So yeah, that was a definitely a thought process that I had that is at something that I want to be pursuing and at the same Time I thought, well, I'm a huge introvert, by the way.And I thought to myself, I don't like people very much and so maybe human medicine isn't where I want to go.
What about veterinary medicine?It was kind of a little bit like on a whim like that but once I started pursuing it I really found my passion here.That's so interesting.That sounds very similar to my story.I, you know you get the hell of a lot of the people we interview here say.
Yeah.From the time, I was five.I knew I was going to be a vet or work.Work with animals.I didn't have that at all.Mine was the similar thing lost in high school going to know to do.So I do an engineer.Should I do and again, looking well, do well at school?I should probably do some sort of a degree and I liked animals and it was a similar thing.
But the reason I want to pause here is I do sometimes think that people who are and I've seen this more in my not on the podcast, so much more with people, you work with people who have that lifelong passion and desire to do it and they have this preconceived idea.
What a life invade signs is going to look like Ivan's.I feel like this.Sometimes struggle more with the transition to reality ways, you get people who sort of fall into vaporization at as an aside and it's not it's not a lifelong passion.It's just well, something tickles your fancy and they go I let me go and explore that for the Copa.
Lot better.If you come across that at all, is that total bullshit?That's a good question.I guess it's not something that's hit me specifically, but now that you mention it, I'm going to look for it and see.I can cool story sound like I think for Me, even though I came in feeling like, maybe I don't like people.
And that's why I want to do veterinary, medicine and animals are what I want to focus on now, it's very much about the people.The people that I've met along the way that have guided me through the process pointed me in the right directions.Give me just a little bit of an edge to go in the direction that I would be good at.But letting me make the decision, ultimately is where I found my path and not All Leads back to helping people through helping pets.
I love that didn't like people.So what I'll work with It was that old foolish mistake of thinking a career in veterinary science will will allow you not to work with people.That's a common misconception and then it becomes will have to come back to the introvert thing with any becomes, a speaker trainer and his career is all about people.
That's just this is, but this is a kind of an irony in that story.There isn't it?Well, let's look at that.Now.Now you're a world-class speaker.You try and people.Do you run people as an introvert?How did that happen?How did you transition or learn how to To not let your introversion be a stumbling block for you.
When I think back on my career and definitely started working as a veterinary assistant.When I met Nancy was, when after that conversation, she said, well, if you like what you're doing, get yourself credential and then the next step was that there's something called VTS certification, if you want to be specialized in emergency and critical care and there was another moment where the next time she came out to give us a little bit of continuing education, we had a conversation.
I was talking to her about Tastes horrible like pulmonary edema case.We know those cases where that's Harold saying is fluid, just comes out.There are way I have to dump the patient and things like that and as I was talking to her about that case she said, hey, why don't you think about doing a case report at I've X, which is the annual emergency conference, and it's just a short, you know, 12 minute presentation.
It's going to be in front of panel judges and some audience and those kinds of things.And I think my response to that was shoot, like, I don't know if I could do something.Like that and never thought of it.And I actually it was more that I didn't even realize that was an option like that was out there but that's another one of those judges that she gave me to try something new, give it a shot.
And I remember, right up to the moment of going up to the podium and starting to speak.I was thinking to myself.Why did I like sign up for this?I quite agree.But seems like it's a good idea at the time.Doesn't it about an hour before you and But I once they started talking about the case and sharing the situation in the knowledge that goes into it and the care that we provided and all that and afterwards, I felt like, wow, like this was great, I want to do more of this and that's where she came to me and said that hey you did a good job.
I'm going to recommend you to come back next year to do a presentation.And that's where my speaking career started.Then it just snowballed from there because she did say if the but be careful because it can snowball very quickly and you need to make sure you pace yourself.And that's exactly what had happened there.
I think amazing stuff.I'm very curious.I'm renting this into clinical podcast.The case you talked about with the fluid.Gosh, you got did it survive?Is that why I'm talking about?Did not survive.The I was a pretty bad congestive.Heart failure to know they're gonna say when they, when they get to that, they don't generally do all that.
Well, but the case report I did present on was a patient.I was hit by a car, had a diaphragmatic hernia and a liver torsion on That which we didn't know at the time and so through the stabilisation that we provided in the time that it took for us to go into surgery, the liver probably had irreversible damage that we couldn't help the patient through.
And so it was a hit by car diaphragmatic hernia that turn into liver failure and a hospitalization period that we actually ultimately couldn't save either, but there's a lot of care that goes into it and there's also a story with the family there that was told to so well.
Okay, all right, we'll have to get you back.For clinical stuff another time because I get curious immediately.Now you mentioned that knowledge that you've had to several matches in the right direction.So I'd love this to be a nudge, massive nudge for a lot of people and get some because I'm oblivious to some of the stuff when I researched you credentialed.
Let's start with that.What is what I want to get to the specialist nursing staff as well.I didn't even know that was a thing.I'm embarrassed to say, so what is credentialed mean in your world?Yeah, it means different things around the world and so I'll just generalize this process but at least in the United States.
There's a process where people can go through a two-year degree or a four-year degree associates or bachelor's degree in Veterinary.Technology are nursing and that qualifies them to take the national examination called the BT, any and then in each of the state's, they're able to credential and we call it credential blanket wise because sometimes it's state governed As registration licensure or certification, or sometimes, it's a private organization that history is Certification that doesn't have any legal regulation, but it's a certification that shows that people have met the qualifications and that's existing throughout all states of United States.
Now, 40 states, have state governed regulation and 10 states, still have private regulation.And so, if you take a look at around the world, it's similar in that there's some form of educational degree associated.With qualification examination, process, that gets regulated by either governmental.
See, we're a private organization that certifies them in the.So when you take advantage Shield, you mean an official qualification versus starting as a seventeen-year-old on shift in somebody just showing you the ropes on how to is that basically what it comes down to.Okay, we in Australia in the last year or so we've suddenly got a qualification, a degree that is a vet tech degree as well, which is new and people are curious about what that's going to mean to the nurses and how it's going to change their training and it seems to be more A lot more Theory than the, the old qualifications had raised the old qualification was very practical and again, these questions around, from which even to go, well, are they going to be better?
Nurses?They've got a lot more theoretical knowledge, but do they may be miss out on some practical stuff.I don't know.What's your thought on that?That what's the benefit of more?Theoretical knowledge for a Takeover in is?Yeah, actually, that's a really good question.That always comes up.Is it with people were to ask the question of which is more important education or experience?
That's a very tough Question to answer because you can't do without either of them and you need both heels.But when we think about where Veterinary nursing has come in the sense of what kind of role do we play, we have a lot of patient assessment, physical exams, that we do, that pieces of information that we need to put together.
Whether it's different kinds of heart, sounds lung sounds or the heart rate sped up.Why is that along with some of the advanced procedures that we perform placing central line?Is mechanically ventilating animals, putting them under anesthesia, which is a very common place, doesn't have to be a critical care situation.
Every Veterinary practice has anesthesia involved and there are Veterinary nurses that administer it, there's so much physiology pharmacology, you name it.Like any kind of those disciplines that people do need knowledge on in order for them to provide the best care possible.
Be able to be prepared for some of the issues that arise to On to it appropriately and make sure that the patient receives the care that they need.And some of that can be filled with experience and self-learning, but I think having a baseline knowledge through education is very important.
Okay, yeah, I could see that for sure.Makes a lot of sense.And then d, The Specialist thinking.How does what does it look like to get there?Like, what's the process?What can you specialize in multiple questions?What can you specialize in?What does it look like time will come?
Richmond rise in that.And and what does it mean for you?And your career there is the National Association of Veterinary technicians.In America nav data that is based in the u.s. that has a committee on Veterans technician Specialties they recognize the special the veterinary technician Veterinary nurse specialty areas and so there's different academies that get establish that provide certification for it.
And so you're going to make me look this up because I don't know all 16 of them.Okay.So it's not Not just the, okay, so there's multiple like, no, you don't have to list them.All right, there's that.Yeah, 16 Specialties that have been recognized so far emergency and critical care.
Was the first one that was recognized but there's definitely also Dentistry Internal Medicine, anesthesia and analgesia, clinical practice, and even laboratory animals Behavior, Clinical Pathology.So there's all sorts of Specialties out there and there are the recognized Specialties and there's 16 of them.
Em.But there are also specialty areas that people are going into that don't have an academy established yet, but maybe in the future, that will be a specialty certification as well.And then what a Ted price is low because you've done to you've done DC and medicine.Is that right?Yes.
Which one was first emergency in critical care.Was first?Why did you do the medicine on top of that as well?Yeah.Okay, good question.I think that as I so when I started in my career, I first went through the process of how can I make myself the Best regards possible that how can I help my patients best?
And so that was the get myself credentialed first.So then I got my rvt in California and then when I thought, what's next, what I do?What do I do next?That's where the VTS in BCC came up.I did that since that's directly in the area of my work and then I thought to myself what's next.
And I think that's the kind of question that I've asked myself.Each time is, how can I better myself from here?And that's where another VTS was one way to go.Go and actually maybe the only way that I knew at the time and internal medicine and emergency, and critical care has so much overlap.
I ran the blood bank.There were a lot of critical cases that was based on internal medicine.Like I am ha or diabetes for example and so I qualified for internal medicine and so I went forward and did the BTS and internal medicine and then after that, when I thought what's next, it was kind of hard to find what would be my career advancing step next in the clinical And I did eventually go through a master's program in veterinary sciences.
And so, I feel like I gained a lot of advanced clinical knowledge, but also thinking a little bit more into evidence based practice.And what does evidence look like out there literature how to conduct clinical studies?And so I gained a little bit on that and as well but to your question is just basically the mindset of how do I make myself better?
At what I do was what led me to get to bts's?What I like about your story is that this is a good test drive and it actually led to really cool places because the maybe a couple of years ago even five years ago the Silicon we would say.All right?So you're going to do all this training and you're going to get so shit at your job.
It'll be fantastic for your patience but beyond that kind of.So what?Because if you stuck in the clinic somewhere and there's a ceiling and I think that's often a concern for takes and for nurses, is a perceived ceiling in the careers.So yeah, I can qualify myself better but so what am I going to?
And the same clinic for the same pay, just much better at my job.But then, I look at your career, I goes well, the professions clearly changing because there is the ceiling is disappearing.Is that how you feel that?Hey, did you ever feel like that?Did you get out of get, just get stuck in the same thing?
Or did you always see a pathway through there?Probably somewhere in the middle there that I definitely did feel like once I obtain my vgs certification and being really good at what I do.The next step wasn't as clear and that's why I said, you know, the next thing that I did was the master's program but it didn't gain me too much in terms of the clinical setting that's where my career path started to diverge a little bit more out into things like I did a three-year Years of being an instructor at the community college nearby to the instructor for veterinary technology program.
So I went into education a little bit.I became the supervisor of the ICU, one of the supervisors that I see you co-manager, the ICU, the sole manager, that I see you.And then a part of the leadership team of that digital.And so I kind of went up the management side of things as well.
And I went out and started my speaking career and so that was a way to share my knowledge and that was another thing that I could do.Do but to your point if a person wanted to stay in the clinical setting and continue growing and doing more and more, it's very hard to find that path.
That makes it a sustainable career unless you're in the right place.And so that ceiling is definitely there.And that's why we're here today talking about things like what does a nurse practitioner role looked like in veterinary medicine?Can we have a another step in our career going from being a Yes and a great technician or a nurse and playing a physician's assistant or nurse practitioner like role because that would be somebody who can stay in the clinics and continue to grow.
What's the situation?Like in the u.s.I saw a discussion locally.The other day about somebody was talking about the obvious solution for the vet shortage or the staff shortage in the middle of a profession is to utilize some sort of a nurse practitioner or other roles, who can offload some of the doing of veterinarians shifted to other also that we can do more sort of over.
Seeing roles, but the stumbling block in Australia, at least is regulation.It's very tightly regulated as to who can do what what procedures are you guys have the same issue there.Was it and is it changing?I you guys to working to change that I think we're very much in the discussion and debate Faison that that in the u.s. it's probably similar that licensed.
Veterinarians are the only ones that legally can diagnose prescribe perform surgery.So in order for somebody else to be able to do any of those tasks that qualify as those categories, the laws would need to change in order for that to happen.And so there's still room though for us to Veterinary nurses, to be utilized in a much higher level.
That's right, up to that line of it.Illegal.We don't want to do anything illegal, that's not or same but until the laws change we still have room for us to utilize our nursing team members much better than we do today.So that's one thing that we should be working on today right now and everyone should be doing but going forward if we want to have an expanded career path this is an option that people are talking about looking at and there's master's degrees being established to take a look at what Advanced education, higher education, In looks like for veterinary nurses so that they are equipped to do.
So maybe there's some conversations about could there be a certification process that certifies that the vast knowledge and then once that comes into play is their regulation changes that could happen that establishes this role in a legislative way and just thinking about that progression that discussion started.
I think that everyone's trying to gather as much information about this to make a sound decision, is one thing that I worry about with the establishment of this role is, Is if we're just talking about and thinking about this, as a way to bring more people in to fill the shortage of Veterinary professionals and bringing in people who might be outside of the nursing field.
For example, somebody who has a science degree, maybe has worked in a Veterinary practice for a little bit and then qualifies to be if this practitioner that can diagnose prescribe or perform some surgery while that meets the requirement or like the desire of bringing in more people who can provide better, Nari care.
It doesn't really help expand on the nursing career side.I'd like it to be a pathway that's established for experienced.Nurses to continue, moving through their career into higher practice is what I like to see.And so it just want to make sure that this is implemented in a very careful way, so that it doesn't serve as a way to bring in another set of professionals that is seen as higher than Veterinary.
Nurses, that suppresses the growth of our profession.Yeah, makes sense.Yeah so it's the way to go, but it's not a quick fix.Is not going to solve our problem.Tomorrow, it to regulation changes are slow Journey, isn't it?In the short term, you mention underutilizing are taking our noses, which I think is a big issue.
Other things that you see in practice, when you go out to practices or even in your career, what are the key things that jump out at you, where you go, you fools, why aren't you using your takes better for this?Where are we under utilizing our nurses and techs the moment.There's a mean there's a good amount of that.
Okay, so just to put it into context, I'd say maybe a little bit of time ago a year ago or so there's a survey that's out there.That's used as a tool people can just say, how often does this particular task be performed by a veterinary assistant credentialed veterinary, technician or veterinarian and then we kind of scored that responses and we saw that there's maybe only about 36 percent of what we think.
Night, nurses could be doing out there that was set to be having done by their cars out there, which is a pretty low percentage, and I'd say that I did this with Heather Prendergast and that Aaron Spencer, we have high standards, we have a lot of things that we think we should be able to do.
And so maybe we're overshooting a little bit, but even with that in mind, 36 percent of our potential is pretty low.And so, there's a lot of room for us to grow in our utilization.So if there are people who practices out there that Are having veterinarians be the ones that are placing IV, catheters, for example, or inducing anesthesia, monitoring anesthesia providing him patient care, the people who can assess the patient's are also veterinarians only, that's the kind of stuff that are very low, hanging fruits that you know, that energy is already should be doing.
And if you're not doing that, you're clearly not being an efficient team but there are probably other things.And so at the veg over here, we're trying to establish a set of things that's still within the Scope of practice and within the laws but very Advanced is like what if we could have our Veterinary nurses, being the one's that unblock cats when they come in for emergencies?
What if they're the ones that can drive endoscopic form body like an scopic GI foreign body removal that doesn't require surgery.And so there's all sorts of different kinds of things that we can consider Advanced a pasty-faced exams that normally quote unquote normally veterinarian.
Our traditionally, traditionally derivation areas, traditionally, that's a good word, but then by veterinarians, that likely can be done by a nurse well-trained.One that has the trust of the entire team that there you can do this appropriately without causing or posing a increased risk of complications occurring.
You know, that's a role that we could play and so could we push people more and more up into that advanced tasks and also the thinking work that is involved in the patient?It makes so much sense because the things you mentioned, they, none of them are.There are massive.You don't need a hell of a lot of theoretical background, to be able to drive an endoscope, or to shovel to Bobcats penis.
It's a skilled thing.As you can explain it in, anybody can learn.It my only reservation and I think maybe this is why it happens.Is the things you mentioned on fun things to do.I don't that's a V8.I don't want to give them a pilot.I want to do it.Ya know.
Oh it certainly doesn't mean that the veterinarian can't do that.But if it's a situation where you are either in 1900 the surgery room doing a splenectomy for a splenic Mass, rupture, hemo abdomen, and you have a black cat that needs to be unblocked at the same time.
Who's doing it?I kind of yeah.Yeah, makes a lot of sense.I really do like that Dad, you teach that have you come?And I have a bigger question.I'll come back to but teaching and training takes in This.That's your job, isn't it?
That is that that's a large part of your core has been.And is it still a part of figuring out how to drain?Have you ever figured I'd specific techniques or ways that resonate?Well, that's a good way of teaching text in clinic or things that don't work.For example, one of the things that commonly happens that we know doesn't work, at least very well is just throwing information out.
People that it's this is kind of thing where you stand up in front of the room and you have a group of people and you're giving a lecture and you're just throwing information out there.Them and this is maybe where the recovery initiative comes in is that there's a certification process for veterinary.CPR out there that has very much embraced the way of creating opportunity for people to put knowledge into practice and learning through that instead.
So it's an online course.First, get all the knowledge aspect through this nice interactive more, modern, online course that people can learn the knowledge from and the next step is to go into an in-person Workshop where we use.Simulation in order to have people actually perform CPR on this dog dummy.
That is able to create heart and lung sounds pulses, and it Dex, compressions and breaths and things like that.It has a software that shows a multi-parameter monitor.You can take a look at the ECG what the end title.CO2 value is.And so then after they do that, they, if they do things well and they go, according to the algorithm that we're trying to teach, they can bring the animal back.
And if it doesn't go so well, they might lose the animal.But this is kind of like the the, you know, simulated high-stakes that we create.And so then people really try their best and they learn from it.And after that is the facilitated discussion where we create a safe environment for people to answer questions, have a discussion and learn from each other that makes it stick even more.
So creating a place for people to apply their knowledge and practice.First of all, and then the debriefing after it is really makes, it what makes it stick in their minds and hopefully they leave the session feeling more confident.There's So assessment that's associated with this Leah tested, at the end to perform CPR along the algorithm and they pass or fail, right?
And so that's really an accomplishment after they come through that and they actually pass.And I see people like, high-fiving each other and like cheering and like giving each other hugs or you exchanging information to say, hey like, let's keep in touch.And so I think it really creates a great learning environment in that kind of way.
So I really like that kind of setup and everything that were training.Now, we're trying to incorporate Coorporate a very similar model where we give a little bit of pre-work for knowledge.Give them an opportunity to practice it and then test them in some kind of way.Teacher little do a lot debrief taste.
That's the recipe, is it?That's the winning recipe, quick Interruption two things, wait V live baby 22 to 25.
November Noosa.Your days of clinical content with Prop, Joe medicine and prof.David Church, the Oracles of Smalley's medicine, but this is not your average conference, we're going full width Vault, this means that our clinical content will be less lecture more interactive.
Lots of questions interviews case studies.Yeah you're going to learn a few things but what we really want to learn is how to think better.And then there's the non-clinical staff.We kayaking in a world heritage site, we're doing yoga on the beach.We're surfing.We hiking, we climbing a mountain.
We're doing cooking classes.Definitely a favorite eating, my favorite ice cream, shop is across the road from our venue for Day 2, which also happens to be across the road from the beach.And on the last day, we are doing a four hour session with Philip mckernan from episode 70.It is going to be epic, I'll put a link for the full event in the episode description but don't book their email us at Red Rock broadcast at gmail.com and tell us that you heard about it here and we'll send you a red V listener discount code thing.
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This is because they've already listen to hours of amazing content without to conference guests on our medicine podcast plus around 80 plus hours and counting of other medicine surgery and emergency and critical care content.There is smart bunch of Subscribers.The getting even smarter which is why we call them a V8 V Ned's, you should be a nerd.
Check it out for free for two weeks.At VV, n dot.Super cast.com.Hello.It just is as an aside that the whole recovery thing stole because you have that practical component that its toll during covid, or did you manage to take it offline or how to, how what happened with it?
It certainly that slowed down quite a bit during There was some effort put into modifying the simulation software so that it can be done remotely.But before that really started to become a lamented and took off as a mode of teaching, we're now more in person these days.
So we've seen a sunrise more recently in the number of workshops that's being held, but we're now focusing on training more instructors out there so that they can go and do the workshops and will hopefully have a more exponential effect in Getting that out there and you find the inputs and distill the having done, by the way, is it still the ideal way to do it?
General, in terms of the focus on the learning and the quality of learning, that's the ideal way to do it in terms of reach.And how widespread this information can be having a remote method of being able to teach, that would be definitely better in terms of reach, but there probably is some compromise to the quality of Learning Journey.
Again, Canaan and how far you've gone and you'll die.Well, first of all, what drives you it sounds as it was a just purely a desire to see how you see.You said it earlier.How good can I get?Like how can I be the best at what I do?I think that what I call like my defining moment or what really defined why I'm doing this is actually our my wife and eyes experience with our first daughter.
She's not with us anymore but we experience being in the NICU and the Pediatric ICU, the health care that we received and the way A that nurse has played such a large role in that, and how they made us feel as the entire team really made me consider how veterinary medicine is conducted and what Veterinary nursing looks like compared to human nursing.
And there was so much positive elements of that, that maybe feel like there is a lot to be done on the veterinary nurse inside that.For example, it was a situation where we were brought into the NICU and hospitalized And the first thing that the nurses said to us was, hey, you know, they're like I know that you had books that you probably wanted to read to her music that you wanted her to listen to just bring it all in, come in anytime you want.
Just be with her and spend time as a family and that was an example of how regardless of how this was going to end up and they don't know how it was going to end up or maybe they did.I don't know that they were focused on not only the patient, but the entire family, Yeah, and I feel like that could be a missing piece and many veterinary practices out there.
I won't say all of them, but many of them that that we focus so much on the animal and how we can take care of the patient themselves or not really pay attention to, what?We might be allowing the owners to experience the family members to experience.And so I think that that is something that I bring into my everyday thought process as the chief Veterinary nursing officer.
What is Veterinary nursing, what does that look like?And how can we function better at to take care of?Not only the pet but the people through them.Yeah.It's a big contrast there, isn't it?You did write it it most of it practices.It's kind of the opposite of that.So it's not instead of a including the families, we almost want to keep them out.
We like while you irritating us while we do our work stop interfering we working.It just don't be so annoying.Sort of an attitude.I know it's not expressed, but it's often felt as a finale, the vibe is on the floor, but I know why it happens.And when we talked about it with David as well, you are trying to concentrate and having it feels like it's an extra emotional drain or a distraction almost to the work that you want to do.
Do you find that is the case or like how do you combine the caring and open side with the people who come attached to your patient with still being focused and working hard and not feeling like it's a distraction.So even before I came to vag, I was working at a place that has an open hospital.
So we allowed the pet owners to come to the back with their pets.Watch surgery.Watch the Dentistry procedures.Stay I see you things like that and veg also is a very open taking it to the next level open concept where people walk directly into the treatment room and there the entire time.
So definitely it immediately puts people on guard when they hear this story because they think about, well, what if they get in the way or what, if they see things that they shouldn't see what if the animal cries out in pain, when we're trying to place a catheter and the owners right there.
And so there's so many things that could go wrong with this.That immediately worried people.But that's where I think that we need to be very mindful of if the animal is crying out in pain and struggling and you're having to wrestle that animal to place an IV.Catheter, what's wrong with that picture?
Is it the fact that the owners are there?Or is it that we're not handling the animal in the right way?Maybe is there like some way that we can place the IV catheter without it being painful is their local anesthetics like cream that we should be using these different ways to deal with that kind of situation.That is probably more.
To the patient who were trying to help and the family that comes attached with them.And so I think it's kind of changing our mindset a little bit on.What's the true issue here?What's the core issue that we need to solve instead of just keeping people out of the way so that they don't experience any of the bad things that are happening.
So let's fix those bad things.I think the resistance if I think about myself, because it's extra thinking because now we got to think about what else should I be doing rather than just power through, which means extra steps which could feels annoying.But I think the main thing is that shift of mind, the Mind shift is it's a hard thing to do.
People that change their minds easily and not without resistance I've tried, I have try where I work and we not an open Clinic officially, but since chatting to David, and to Mariana and everybody trying to be more open to say to people come through.I do still feel the extra pressure feel like it is that feeling of being watched and you don't hit the IV first go and I struggle with it a bit, but I do see the benefits as well as I'm still gonna have to see one of your hospitals and see there.
It had an accident.I'm come to consider any time but just thinking about, like, even though you say that though, I guess that, if you take a look at your everyday practice, there are things that are open as a like you do things in front of the owners like something's, right?
So, It's not like, everything's shut behind the door.And so what are those things?Why do you feel comfortable doing that?What's the next step?Because you don't have to go all the way from how you're currently.Practice, do completely open like wedges.I guess that's a huge transition.What's the next step that you could take, if you're already drawing blood in front of them in the exam room, then it's the next step that you can actually place an IV catheter in front of them or is it that you can have them swing by and watch part of the surgery through the It's real quick and just say.
Hey, so this is what's going on and have the owners the at least content seeing that things are being taken, care of, not every owner wants to see surgery by the way that they don't want to see if they're enough for that open or anything like that.But anyways, that might be one way where it's just a short term duration that it's a check-in and that's all it is.
And so there's ways to gradually increase your openness, I think, but having your team on board with it, having a plan in place to make that happen.Is what I tend to recommend when people say, how do we get there.Because I think this is a good idea is just so hard to change the culture.
It's, you know, obviously involving your team and taking gradual steps and agreeing upon doing things.We know that it's not going to be perfect the first time that you do it for every single situation, but learning from that and going from for from there.Because I'll say that surveys like survey studies say this too.
And I experienced it from the people that we work with that even people who were skeptical about this, once they're in that environment.They do it for a while.They see the benefits of it, how the relationship between the owner and the veterinary team is so much better.They see the value.They don't complain about like the fees because they see the value and what you're doing and they're actually seeing how hard you guys are working and the facility how its set up and all that that you can be proud of vast, majority of the people who come into this environment dialog, learn to love it.
All right, I believe you, as you say, it's a slow process.All right, let's do it.Let's do something for the specifically for the nurses.And the, in the takes out there, if you have a of, you had a younger sibling or a cousin or one of your kids say to you, I want to do vet tech want to do it.
What would you tell them at the start of their career that you think will make a big difference for them because it's I'll tell you why I'm ten years ago.So I might slightly older brother with lives in the United Kingdom and he was a bit frustrated with his job in that and he said to me, he's considering doing - I have, to be honest.
I didn't encourage it.I stuck.You could do it.It's a great job, but you got to really, really love it.You're gonna be sure that you're going to love this because you can work really hard, it's really emotional work.It's funny thankless work at times, depending on where you work, pays a bit rubbish, a bit rubbish.
It's really can talk about bias as well.And so I was pretty harsh on the job even though I absolutely respect and the dope Witnesses.And I don't know if it's because of what I said to him or when they looked into print.IND didn't have doing it and I don't know, was it the right advice?Because I look at you and I go over, I can be wrong.
It's definitely Pathways.They what would you suggest to somebody like that?I think that it definitely people have asked me that question of, would you recommend your kids to go into this profession?And I gave a pause before.I could answer that most of the time because I couldn't wholeheartedly say, oh yeah, this is amazing.
And you like everyone should do it because it does take a special kind of person to thrive in this At least up to, I don't know.Maybe five years ago, I would maybe say that I think things are changing and there's a lot of optimism that we all have of where this profession is headed.
And so the one of the biggest things that I would say is, make sure that whatever you doing is something that you can find meaning in in that, this is something that fills your cup.Is it true?And for me, that turned into the realization that it's not only the patient that you say that, you know, I said that I I used to think that I was in Veterinary nursing because I didn't like people but now I know that I do it for both people and the pets.
And so as nurses, the care that we provide, the compassion that we embody the warmth that we show affect both pets and their people.And so people should be definitely treated with dignity respect, kindness like human beings and just consider that when pets have an emergency or they need care from the veterinarian.
And their people are coming in sick, too, and it's our responsibility to treat call them together.So, like, when the pet owners actually know that their pet received, the best care possible by the best nurses out there.And they were given the best chance of getting better.Even if the outcome isn't what they wanted it to be, you're making a huge impact on their lives to be able to accept what happened.
And so it's really not only the patients that you save in your daily work and if you can be proud of that and how much good you're doing every single day.Day, then you're in the right profession.I like your optimism.You said the word that you're optimistic because we hear a lot of us at the moment.
A lot of things about the profession in crisis.Why optimistic?I think that I am very optimistic because I'm lucky enough to sit here at the seat of the executive team at this company, and the chief Veterinary nursing officer.
There's not at least in the US and not any more of those seats out there right now.But that spark discussion, More that are going to be created.And I'm hearing murmurs of that which is great and that's what we want to do.We wanted to challenge the rest of the field to make similar changes.
Now I get to oversee nursing for this entire company and making different kinds of changes.Like the pay scale changes that we made where we asked ourselves.How do we pay our Veterinary nurses, like human nurses?And we're very darn close and so we can provide a career for people and that's creating Ripple effects around the industry.
Tree that everyone is responding to that too and I'm sure that there were many companies that were already thinking about doing things like that, to make it a sustainable career, but the focus that we have on our profession.And the fact that this is a team-based approach that we have team-based care that we're providing to meet the demands of the patients out there, it's just leading to more and more changes and I think maybe I'm a little bit biased in that I'm in a place where I feel like I A lot more control of What kinds of changes that can be made, at least within my reach.
And they might be people who feel like they're more helpless because they don't have a voice and they're not being heard and that's one of the issues that we have out there and one of the major reasons why people leave the field and I think that's why I encourage people to within their reach, what's within their control to make the positive changes and are you starting to see effects of that change?
And I am and maybe that's why.Why I'm so optimistic?It's so good to have examples like you owe main toes.Like you of people using that voice saying world, I deserve something more with my career because I see that and I don't know if it's a hard thing to discuss without potentially offending a group of people, but even this incredible, I love this has been under 20 years of being babysat, and supported by try nurses.
They, some of my favorite people.The most hard-working giving self-sacrificing and they spend their lives racing at I was trying to help them with animals.Don't always want to be helped and it's things with claws and teeth and they get better than butter the excretions all over them and and and they just keep doing it.
And I so positive and such incredible people and I would say under appreciated that, appreciate it.But that appreciation is not always shown and it's not, they don't valued.In terms of, we talk about money again and not thanked enough.I think for what they do, but then hardly ever do.See nurses.
Also stand up for themselves and say, look, I want More, where's the next level?I why I deserve more and I don't just mean money.As you say, career pathway, I future or something rather than going.Well, I've done this for five years and nothing's changing I'm out.I'm going to go get an office job somewhere, which is really sad because you have people with such a love for what they do.
And that's why they objected to the job is that a personality style.I know that I've heard discussions about classically, witnessing attracts people who like you say, who will, avoid people who find comfort in animals and maybe don't have the Let's say people skills again, I'm trying not to offend anybody but I'm trying to stay to something helpful but they don't have that drive to say, well, I would put my hand up and put myself out there is that something that you found throughout your career or still find or something that you find is a challenge.
I'm not offended because I'm socially awkward but and I recognize that yeah in terms of advocating for themselves.Do we see that our profession has a harder time advocating for ourselves?I think traditionally I would think so like I think I agree with that but with that said there's a shift here.
That when I talk to some of my colleagues who are in education that are literally guiding the future generation of our profession to go out into the field.There are many of them that are saying Something like don't accept anything less than this many dollars per hour in this area.
For example, in providing guidance and providing information regarding how to build a better resume, how to negotiate your salary and interview process, or how to do the interviews better to begin with, you know, those kinds of things.And so I think that there's a lot more focus on the skill sets that we need aside from just medical nursing and patient care.
Knowledge that is coming into play, that is starting.To change that a little bit.So I think I just always am so appreciative of all the different paths that leaders in this field are working on to help better.The profession overall, and we're seeing that even though it's gradual change that we're seeing we're seeing the changes happening.
Maybe it's a lot of vision LED change.It's a cultural change, its have run having role models and seeing look a there is a different way.There is a it doesn't have to be this way.I think the word cultural change definitely resonates because there is a certain culture of veterinary medicine that we I have lived with and that's starting to change.
Yeah more people like you more conversations like these in the training and the work that you do or your career so far.Why do you see with Vertex or witnesses?That drives you crazy?Do you see it?Behaviors from Bates or from nurses or anything that you go?No, no, this could be so much better.
Yeah.And I won't set myself aside for this because I think it's me included, but that's the thing that I feel is most detrimental.Mental with what, how we're approaching things is being reactive.Meaning that if we see something that happens that we don't agree with, sometimes it's anger or frustrations that come out instead of looking for.
How do we work together to solve this issue?And you see that very often out in social media, these days, where there's often very much, emotionally, charged debates, and arguments, that are going on and it happening in the Stays the social media space.
That doesn't really go any further than that.Maybe it's making a difference.As people read it and process it.And they are doing what they can do to help change those kinds of things within their reach.But it's that latter part that really needs to be the main mode in order for us to make real change.
So I think that's one thing that I want people to focus more on, is that energy that goes into the anger can be directed to making the change and everyone has something that They can do within their reach regardless of what position you're in or what kind of status that you might have.
How do you change attractiveness because I agree with you.That is it's that emotional reaction.And then saying, or speaking or doing without before thinking it through, have you found ways to get better at that?I think I'm learning.Yeah.Is it just that agent was the main thing he's in wisdom?
Yeah, I don't know if it just takes time or more experience.I think one thing that I can say about that is you can't learn through that process until you start trying.So if you stop at being angry about something and feeling that something needs to change but you don't act on it, you're not going to be able to find the way in which that change actually happens.
And so that's why I say you know, unless you try something find out more information about what's going on.How does a change like legislative change for example?Happen and work with people who are trying to make the same change, try it out, get some learning going.
And then based on that do better the next time if it doesn't work the first time.So I think that as long as we're continuing to try, then people will gain the experience Insight, the network, the collection of people who want to do the same thing that's going to turn it into a larger and larger voice, larger and larger force, that will make it happen.
And I know that's a simplistic way of thinking about it, because there's so much competition.Dated issues and nuances to the issues that we have out there today.But that's I think the general approach is that unless you actually act on what you're wanting to change, its never gonna happen.
I like simplistic way, that's my life.Motto is to try to keep it simple.If you don't if you look at the overall mass of problem, it's completely overwhelming and you'll never do anything.So you have to try and keep it simplistic.You've got a regular, I really like what you saying that those feelings of frustration, and anger starts with recognizing, Thing that you feeling it going, okay?
I don't like these feelings, but instead of lashing out about it, be curious.And go.Why am I feeling at?What are the root causes y.If I got these feelings and then the next steps, just as well.What can I do about it?What's the one little thing that I can do about it right now?Where do we start?
Really begin, it's fantastic.How you gonna just showing showing in your career?Trying to do the little things and making big changes?That's that's awesome.Got to start wrapping up.Let's do the podcast.Question, are you about your podcast listening?
And not as much not as much too busy too much work.Maybe so maybe so, but I do have a book that I could mention.Yeah.Go.So a book that was gonna have to drop the David least.Listen to, the vet felt podcast with David baesler, I have not. let's go with your book, please get so one of the books that I found interesting that I read recently is called a high conflict and the high conflict is a type of specific type of conflict where there's polarized ends, there's two parties.
It's us against them and it just never gets resolved.It's an ongoing process where it just continues to escalate and it doesn't seem to end ever.And within that, I found the concept of this concept of conflict.Entrepreneurs, very interesting that sort of Excel and riling people up and uses that to pit them.
Against each other and that somehow, these two their own advancement.And so there are people like that out there that don't want the conflict.And and so then they do this to escalate the conflict.So, if but I die direct interest in the conflict carrying on.
Yeah.Yeah, definitely.So, but it might be.So in the book that they talked about it was something like it was a dictator regime versus the resistance kind of thing.And so, it's a very real situation, very horrible situation that Definitely, there are people who benefit directly from the conflict and suing my, if you take a death, dial it down to maybe things like social media and how people present messages and things like that.
It's somewhat applicable as well.Just just as an example, there was an opinion piece, posted just yesterday by the Press, Herald titled.Our view Animal Clinic didn't deserve online anger.So I don't know if you heard or saw the article about this main Veterinary facility that has been a Target.
Get of anger and threats directed at them.I am aware of it.I haven't looked into story, but I saw, I felt the ripples all the way across the oceans.Yeah.And so that, you know, people who know this.Yeah, I think they can see that.There is actually two sides to this, that there's the pet owner, that's very much hurting because that person had to make the excruciating decision of having to surrender their pet.
And there's the veterinary team that's hurting from it because of all the bullying that resulted from it and the threats and things like that they're experiencing Have the store you going out there and becoming viral in all this.There's all these angry people who are angry at the veterinary team.How could they take that animal away from the pet owner?
And there's all these people angry at the pet owner, that calculus person misrepresent, the story, and create a situation where the veterinary team is being targeted.And that's how like things like suicide in the veterinary field is high and yeah, those kind of things.And so there's all sorts of anger surrounding this.And the question that like, you know, that we can ask in this is who's actually gaining I'm from this, I can think it's like folk every side is losing, but there is a winner in this that it's the people who incite the anger that gains from it.
And so, how can we prevent that kind of stuff from happening and affecting us?How can we find common ground and focus?Our energy that is directed towards anger to solving some of these issues.Why is it that, you know, Veterinary Health Care is so hard to afford.
And when it comes to these kinds of emergencies, what are ways to prevent the situation where the person is faced with In our euthanizing.What is the way to get the pet owner?Public to understand how veterinary medicine works?Those are the solute that we need to be thinking about rather than being angry at each other and escalating the process.
What is the true solution here?What's the core issue?And how do we hit that is where we want to be?It's a big issues in itself, especially in emergency, I'm sure it's something that you guys.Well, in your whole career you used to that do very much used to that scenario of the That took dichotomy of, I want to do something but I can't because of the money.
I have you guys.I don't know where it could be, a whole you're allowed to say, no time's up, but I think I have you guys got thoughts about situations like that.How does how does veg to handle the situation like that?You know there's definitely has thoughts surrounding this.One of the things when I saw this story was that I was so grateful that bitch has something called veg cares that we have a non-profit that's associated with Vege that funds are being donated to.
So for the situations, we might be able to help.The pet owner be able to pay for the care.That's one thing because this somehow there has to be a way to pay for the pet care.Then that also has a philosophy where we can give stuff away for free.
This isn't the word that's used in.Our philosophy is actually the other escort.So that's the philosophy where it matters because we can't give away Services all the time.
But where it matters, where it makes a difference?What are the ways in which we can help and give that service away?This situation where the surrendering being offered to the pet owner, that is stressful to everyone.It's not just the pet owner though stressful to it's stressful for our team as well.
And so putting our teams in that situation where they have to say you either have to surrender the animal or euthanize or go somewhere else, we try to alleviate that kind of As much as possible.There's a philosophy that we have built into the culture of veg, that solves, not just this, but a lot of the different kinds of issues that we've seen in veterinary medicine, that seemingly has become the norm, but if we were to fix the issue and really take a look at what's actually broken and the actual solution to that, that's built into our culture still baffles.
Because I love it, I really like it.And that's I think every Clinic would want to do that.I still struggle with.How do you make it with?This watch financially and how much it can you give away for free before?It becomes a crippling problem?That's like, yeah, and this is a hard conversation to navigate with the teams for sure.
And so we definitely take a look at that and say that's why we say do it, when it matters, it's not just because you can't have that top conversation with the client, it's not going to avoid, you know, difficult situations or uncomfortable situations.It's really when you think it's worth it to do so.
Magic.I cannot last question that we wrap up with.I'm going to make you do this for vet.I was thinking, should I do it for?We've already asked you the V8 a question but you're at a red, one of your conferences.The whole room is filled with all of the veteran, a new grads for the year and you've got a few minutes to give them just one little bit of advice.
What's your advice?So what I would like to say to that room, full of new grads would be that veterinary medicine has changed over the course of time quite a bit and where I would just go to the vets to have their pets seen.It's probably long gone in that.
When they say, the vets were talking about, it's actually the veterinarian, the nurses, the assistants the receptionist, and there's a entire team surrounding it.So don't forget that that you know, we all have our own respective expertise and Specialty area that we bring to the table and it's how efficiently we work together.
How will we communicate and how?Well, we have that team Dynamic set up.That's going to help us take care of more pets and their people over the course of time.And so obviously, I'm very biased towards the veterinary, nurses that when we think about veterinary medicine, it's traditionally been a very veterinarian Centric, thought process and culture that needs to change in order for it to be sustainable.
Not just for us, but for you as well.And so thinking about how each of us can help in that regards, whether it's more in the organization, organized medicine, side, or just in your practice and advocating for Are your nursing care team because if one of the biggest reasons why people are leaving the nursing field is because they don't feel like they have a voice, they don't feel recognized, it's up to everyone on the team, including yourselves to provide that.
So that everyone's doing that for each other and it becomes a sustainable career for everyone.That's a paradigm shift, isn't it?I literally listening to you.It's like something's just clicking in my head there because it is.So it's always traditionally been so vid Centric.
I think I'm the same sort of integers you, but to 20 years in the profession, 20 years ago, it was you find your Reds.That's the team.And then you have to fill in the spaces around them with support staff to make sure that they can shine.And that's actually you're right.It is so outdated, it is equally as a, it's more important.
What happens out of the reception desk, or The and they walk in the door even in the clinical staff.So it is a thoughtfulness of about creating that team not to support the weight but actually just a flat equal team.They all have to shine.Otherwise it's a quick because it's all about that experience.
Exactly, as you say the the client expectation is changing, it's about an experience.It's not just about a dog sick, make it better.I agree all the way through magic, okay?That was so cool to talk to you about Rihanna spoke, highly of you and she's right to do.So thank you so much for all the work you do and I'm so excited to see what comes out of this side.
And I'm gonna come and visit, you and states are going to have to, yeah.And come visit.Anytime will be open arms over here and I'll make sure that I listen to the David Kessler episode after this I'll go get it to makeup is to have conversation like the one you've just doesn't it.
It will give you inspiration and fresh ideas on how to create a thriving and happy career and life as a bit.You'll know by now that our focus is on the life skills that we need to navigate this challenging and rewarding professional back.But there's something that I've realized over the last few years of exploring ways to increase enjoyment of the job that is that the Vets who are confident in their skills and knowledge are, as a More satisfied with their careers, which makes sense.
If you feel Rusty, or uncertain your knowledge.It's very easy for that.Imposter feelings to sneak in, I don't know enough, am I good enough?Conversely, we know that feelings of growth and Mastery are some of the greatest predictors of a happy career, which is why we created the vent valve clinical podcast, three highly practical episodes every week conversations, not lectures with world-class specialist.
Tips updates, really Insights not textbook Theory, short enough to listen to on your drive to work.It was enough content to ensure that you'll be a little bit better at your job than you were before you listen.Join us on our journey to better by trying out our free two week trial at v v in the super cast doesn't stick.

Ken Yagi