June 9, 2019

#7: Doing the hard things. Dr Craig Challen

#7: Doing the hard things. Dr Craig Challen
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Season 1

Our guest today is a successful businessman who, in his free time, likes to put on a skin-tight black neoprene suit and use his special skills and unique equipment to save lives. No - it’s not Batman, but it may as well be.  Dr Craig Challen has become an Australian icon for his role as a rescue diver in the Thailand cave rescue that captivated the world in late 2018. For his efforts in the rescue, Craig was awarded the Star Of Courage award in Australia, nominated as a Companion of the Most Admirable Order of the Direkgunabhorn in Thailand, and, together with his dive partner, as the joint Australian of the year for 2018/19. But long before any of this happened, Craig was an accomplished veterinarian and business owner. He had built and run a successful group of veterinary practices, while also quietly becoming one of the world’s most highly qualified cave divers. It's an incredible story with a very, VERY happy ending, and we are thrilled to have Craig share it with you. In our conversation, we dive deep into the world of veterinary business. Craig shares with us from his wealth of experience tips that vary from how to be a good employee, all the way to building a multi-practice business. Listen out for his 4 step formula to dealing with complaints towards the end of the episode. We talk about career plans, fear, self-confidence, doing hard things, and Craig gives us his take on the challenge of living a balanced life. But first, we kick off deep underground in a cave, somewhere in Thailand.

What can possibly go wrong?Good evening.Ladies and gentlemen, this is Gerardo Poli. and this sorry one of the best bits of advice I've ever received was to find good mentors and to learn from them trusted people who have already done what you're trying to do.
Now.I've been fortunate throughout my career to have some fantastic mentors to help guide me, but I realized that they'd be hard to find and also hard to commit the time to 1.This is why we've gathered some of the best Minds from the veterinary world and squeeze them for their wisdom so that you don't have to learn the hard way.
With the help of our guests, we flipped the veterinary profession on its back and explore its soft underbelly to find the tips tools and inspiration that you'll need to build the career that you've always wanted.I'm Gerardo Poli.I'm Hubert him strapped and this is the vent valve.Before we start this episode.
We have a favor to ask you we're working hard to create something that you are audience will find Value in but we need to know that you are getting what you want.So, please give us some feedback.If you love it, then give us a five star review on the iTunes Store.If you think we can do better then let us know Chatters on Instagram leave us a voice message on the anchor app or send us an e-mail at the vet felt broadcast at gmail.com or just click on the links to the website to find out how to get in touch.
But now back to the episode Our Guest today is a successful businessman who in his free time likes to put on the skin tight black new Prince suit and uses his special skills and unique equipment to save lives.No, it's not bad man.But it may as well be that the Greg Jalen has become an Australian I got for his role as a rescue diver in the Thailand cave rescue that enthralled the world in late 2018.
If you don't know the story of the cave rescue, where have you been you really do need to hear it?So stay tuned in.And we will fill you in for his efforts in the rescue.Craig was awarded the star of Courage award in Australia nominated as a companion of the most admirable order of the death direct gonna born in Thailand and then top it all off.
He was chosen together with his with his dive partner as the joint Australian of the year for 2018 19, even if you're well familiar with the story what you may not know is that long before any of this happened to Craig was and it an accomplished veterinarian and business owner even had built and run a very successful group of a new practices within Western Australia while also quietly becoming one of the most the world's most highly qualified cave divers.
And before that.Well Craig was just a guy who'd like to be a vet who had a good work ethic and took opportunities when they present themselves.This is an incredible story that the very very happy ending and we are thrilled to have crave share.Whew in our conversation with Gregg we dive deep.
Sorry.I couldn't resist bad bunt into the world of Veterinary business Greg shares with us from his wealth of experience tips that vary from how to be a good employee all the way to building a multi practice business.Listen out for his 4-step formula to dealing with complaints like a boss towards the end of the episode.
We talk about career plans fear self-confidence doing hard things and Greg gives us his take on the challenge of Of living a balanced life, but first we kick off deep underground in a cave somewhere in Thailand.Please enjoy.Dr. Craig challenge.So great.
You just landed in Perth.Where did you come from Thailand?Oh, well had 12 days up there on the official tour wandering around and being celebrities.And you know, I thought we were a bit famous in Australia, but that's nothing compared to what we are in Thailand.
Really?Yeah.We seem to be quite popular.So you just got back from from going back there for the first time since that since the rescue.That's right.Yes.Yeah, we've been trying to arrange a visit but it's taken a while for all the styles to line up.
So we managed to get over there just squeezed it in between their election and their coronation which is next week the both busy times and both pretty big things and Thailand and and you read back to well.They gave you a some Royal honors award.
I've got it written down you said you struggle with It yeah, correct me if I'm wrong the companion of the most admirable order of the direct kind of born.Yes, not bad.It's just like the ties right?So that is the spelling there and I was just like nine and that is a great honor.
Huh, man it is.Yeah the pretty much the highest civilian honor that they've got over there.So for them to serve that up to us is well, you know, it's just another bizarre step in the The strange place my life has arrived at now.
Yeah, looks like ten months ago.I was just an ordinary guy.And now I find myself some sort of celebrity.Yeah, and I'm totally weirded out by it.I'm sure on there comes your integrity and authenticity there, you know your honesty and like it's not like yours if you reached out and tried to make it, you know, I mean, this is just, you know, an act of Bravery or many other words.
And and you know, you're just trying to cope with that.That's that's that's well.Yeah, but it's interesting.I mean that was just a thing that we did and you know it people say it sounds a little bit trite but I honestly believe it's just what anybody would have done if they'd had we had we were lucky we had these skills and experience that we could bring to bear and we knew the people that were on site there but I mean saving children anybody's going to jump in and do that, huh?
Bye.Yeah, so we just did what we were going to do and I mean it was the most extraordinary experience and of course the you know, the Dirty Little Secret of it is that it was a it was a pretty good adventure for us as well.Yes, but that's looking back on it and it's all a Happy story and everything went.
Okay.Yeah, of course, we did not expect that to be the result.Yes.I've heard that so you were you were seriously concerned about it not turning out well.Well, you know you guys were here is the Mystic totally expected that they would be at least some casualties.
Yeah, and really I wouldn't have been that surprised that if we killed the whole lot of them.I mean, yeah, I'm sure you guys would recognize that nice advising people and then putting their heads under water is not something that you really do.
Wow.I wasn't I wasn't aware of that and but I'd when you win you You think about it?Like be pitch dark wouldn't it?Like it is not.All right, and how long was the tunnel?Like like how long was the die?So the boys were about two and a half Kay's inside the cave, holy which the first 500 pages was dry or river passage.
And then most of the rest was through water.So yeah, it was I mean, I was pretty impressed with them for getting in that far before the clay flooded.We're good.That a pretty solid.Yeah little outing that's right.Yeah, we went there last week.
Yeah, which was really good to see it without the water.And yeah and get a really good idea of what it looked like and we took a few people with us that were not cavers.Hmm and it was you're also pretty good adventure for them.Was it is it is it open to the public again?No, it's closed at the moment.
Okay.So you guys had a when that is just sit there while you now companion of the most Edward order you could do what you want, but some of it For the with the badge, there's right.Sorry.Do you freebie with the badge?Well, I don't need any extra freebie.
Right?I've got to say to my perhaps embarrassment that I haven't paid for a lot of beers.Yeah.Yeah, there's cash in on that that that is one of the unexpected Pros hey of of the situation, so well that and you know, I never would have a spy.
Tired in my wildest dreams to be here doing a podcast with you guys.It's just one bonus after another you can only dream you've I'm still Blown Away by like so you're saying two kilometers of underwater cave diving at like pretty much so it was well that was the water-filled part.
So some of it had air space above but the boys were unconscious.They had a full face mask on their face down in the water anyway, so they might as well have been Underwater for the greater part of it.Why?Why did you have to Anita dies them?Because that was a three hour Transit out.
We had no confidence whatsoever that they would not panic on the way out.Yeah, and if they did that, you know the flailing around in the water probably pulling their face mask off they'll order yeah drown themselves and quite possibly take a diver out with them as well.
Yeah.We were talking we were talking earlier about that that fear of Confined spaces underwater that that even people who are water confident and and divers feel I certainly well.I mean, I'm pretty confident under the water and in a cave, but if you said you were going to just you know time arms and legs together and stick a face mask on I wouldn't be able to see anything and I'd get bumped around in a cave for two to three hours.
I wouldn't be very happy with that either.Yeah.Okay.Well that puts things in so much.Perspective when you say like, we'd like olives.I didn't have a real understanding of the of the full situation.When you say two kilometers underwater two to three hours totally smashes.
They stress they freak out there.They put your equipment off.They start consuming oxygen faster.And and then he has he said then you got to struggle harder to contain them and then oxygens two precious resource, obviously, if not, a lot of it going around.Yeah it work with what you've got.
So you had that you have a couple cylinders with you like so you would go with your gear and your cylinder you'd have one or maybe just have to there and then because we hadn't we had 3 H 3 H.Yeah, and then the boys had what they had this changed halfway.
So we had one stay staged halfway out.Okay, so they had that strapped onto their front and then halfway with Ditch that one it's this one.Yeah.So when one last question, like how did they know the boys are in there?
They were just seen going in there and always there like a mobile reception in the back of the cave or something.There is definitely no comms in the car.You have to watch the news Gerardo but even ignorant because there might be some people around the world are sitting in this herd of the details, so they're probably Thinking the same things as me.
Yes.I just went in for a little Adventure after their soccer training and they had not been really very forthcoming with their mums about where they were going to so they just all didn't arrive home for dinner and then the parents started phoning around and some of their friends from the soccer team.
That hadn't gone what they'd been doing.Okay, they sort of eventually put two and two together and all their bikes were lined up.There's a quite famous photo To sign in the media with all the bikes lined up at the front of the Cave the railing and let's hit the Rangers near though.We're in there the Rangers we tend and they just struck water some pain there that was impossible.
And that's when they knew that there was a bit of a job ahead.But then it took 10 days to find them not yet nine nine days nine days.So for took divers nine days to locate where they were.Wow, why are you because I knew that we were interviewing Craig.
I was like, I'm not going to Google it all because I knew about it I heard about it and I knew details of it, but then I didn't want to I didn't want to spoil the the date the the discussion in the sense by going and getting the details out because wow there's that the decided when you read back last week created to catch up with the boys did.
Yes, we did we saw Seven of them plus the coach and they are that was excellent.I was you know, I went over one of the highlights short for not like they celebrities as well.They are.Yeah, they're pretty pretty finest.So although they're sort of obviously still living with their families, but they're under the control of this monk in the local Monastery there as well and it's pretty tough character is not taking any ceiling and they're only allowed to travel on their school holidays.
I think you know that that Buddhist thing which I'm not so much.To it, but they definitely pretty grounded.Yeah, they have they have a bit of humility thrust upon them.There's it.There's a story I heard you tell which I wonder if you've confirmed it because when I went ahead you tell it you said you didn't know if it was a fact the story of how the boys decided who was going to be rescued first.
Have you confirmed that this talent that they tell me?It's roughly right?So the the real stories of sorry the the story as I heard it is a lot more fun.Hi, which is that so we didn't choose because it's a question.We quite often get asked.
How did you choose who came out first?And we totally left it up to the boys to choose.Well, actually we asked one of the the Navy Seals that was in there to choose and he bounced the question to the coach.They didn't want to choose either.So he said to the boys you choose and so the way we heard the story was that they didn't know how to choose either so they all thought that At when they got out, they would have to ride their bikes home.
So that shows the kids that lived farthest away from the cave so they could get a bit of a head start.It's really practical.Let's forget.
There's going to be two to three hours on the water, you know.Another question.I asked them was side.Did you think you were going to get into trouble from your mum's because I know what I would have been thinking when I was again older thought I was for it.Yeah, but only one of them fessed up to that he thought he was going to be easy.
It's the same pretty sanguine about it.And so is it true is that either decided more or less?Like I said, I did choose that though the ones that leave farthest away, but they didn't actually think that that have to ride their bikes and but probably thought only bikes would have installed.
Yeah.Thanks.So you had an underwater.In the dark and somebody hands you a needed sighs boy.Did you have to get out of there alive and you have to do it. 12:32 12 boys.
Yes.Yep.Sorry my role.I wasn't swimming the boys out.I was in the so my dive buddy Richard Harris who mold called Harry because that's what we all call it there.He's in an ice chest.He was in at the furthest point of the cave with the boys and I was the next step back so after they've been for their first day.
I've which is about 300 meters.There was then I'd the only dry section of cave so they had to come out of the water have all the kit taken off be transported over the cave.Okay, the dry section of the cave then get kitted up again and sent off.
Okay, so I just cycled doing that because that was also the point where they'd start to wake up a bit and they made of top up with the anesthetic and I was the only other person I love.I've never even had any sort of an aesthetic experience the cave so that was you know, if I could do a bit of assessment and also as a bit of a chance to give some instruction to the other divers that we're going to have to give injections further down the line and what did you use?
How did you get away?Just just kidding me and atropine pre-med.I know the I don't know if you're aware the Was quite a lot of chitchat going on in the veterinary social media sphere and obviously people being very proud that one of us want to ask is out there doing this incredible thing and then it all the I definitely got the impression that there was a I don't know if it was a hopeful thing or that people generally thought but that that it was your knowledge as a vet and your expertise that save the day that you know, the others would have been I wouldn't know what to do and the vet strides in it goes ideal it.
It's difficult animals all the time.I could sort them out that way just give it that is definitely beating my roll up.Maybe they were just hope that that's part.I mean Harry did acknowledge that I would have definitely done a lot more ketamine and Aesthetics in my career and he is over there.
Yeah that was going to be my next question is which well, it's a serious question is was there anything in your your veggie career leading up to this and just just Cave diving in life in general that that you find useful any skills any things that you've learned as a your veteran career that that you find particularly applicable.
Look obviously there's a whole raft of specific skills.So, you know particular the cave diving.Well, that's why I was there but you know, I prefer to actually acknowledge just the sort of generalist things that you learn as well as a vet and just in life.
Hmm generally, you know to to approach solving problems with a minimum of resources where I'm feeling.You've only got yourself to rely on and be confronted with a situation Take it Back to Basics a what are we going to do here?
Particularly, you know as we so often see in a clinical environment that there is no ideal answer and that whatever you're doing ends up as the best of a whole list of Of bad compromises.Yeah, it's all those things.
So I really just emphasize life education.But I do think that the will you Veterinary education to start with then the experience is you go through as a clinician excellent training for that sort of problem solving and making the best of what you've got.
And sometimes there are things that that you got to think on the spot and just there is no way to treat this or know or sometimes even it's like a practical kind of application of like a logical way of thinking about something.
Who can your feet yeah care with so many of those lessons to be learned, you know, and I can remember being when I was a new graduate and thing out to trying to carve down a cow and having to do a cesarean at two o'clock in the morning and it's raining and I've only got one person to help me and I had no idea how to do a cow cesarean and just making it up and you know that it's probably probably just as hard if not harder than doing a cave rescuer reckon.
I'm fascinated by that that self-confidence or dealing with the fear of stuffing up in the cave risk user is a is a great example, but but just looking at some of your other Adventures you've had I read about your New Zealand is super deep hundred a hundred and ninety something had a way to 220 220 and I read that that you said at a stage of Breathing was becoming quite erratic and you struggling to to control your breathing and I just picture that and go okay with its that Panic spilling I've got this is this is not going the way I wanted to go and you could you could bring that back to Victory science to all these the Cesarean at 2:00 in the morning said this is not quite the way I wanted to go whatwhat's your self-talk at that stage.
How do you get yourself back from the brink of panic?Well, look, I think at that stage, there's no time for self-talk you a totally and completely Bleep reoccupied with the situation but it's everything that you've done before that that really contributes to that and you know, I'm interested that you talked about fear of failure.
I mean, nobody wants to file but I am a firm believer that failure is a really absolutely critical part of yourself development and as I've got to be highly qualified by what the actual activity that you're engaged in is So, you know if you're doing surgery on a patient, then you do not want to invite failure, but in lots of other things you do, I really firmly believe that if you're not failing frequently, then it means you're not trying hard stuff and you you know that if you have a fear of failure, it will just end up in you pulling your head into your shell and by no means achieving what yourself potential is.
Yeah, you look at most people that will certainly most people that I admire that I think have been a success in life.And generally they will have had multiple failures in their lives and then they go on and I'm and I know I'm absolutely the world champion of stuff UPS.
So in my Veterinary career and and without yeah, but try and learn from those things.I mean the shameful thing I think you should fear.Yes failing to learn from them.Hmm.Would you would you would you think Craig that maybe it's not necessary confidence in the actual thing you're doing sometimes because sometimes you're doing things you never done before right, but maybe it's more of a long lines that you confident in your ability to work it out.
Yeah, I think so.I mean it's, you know, you'd have to be some sort of superhuman to not like confidence if you're in an unfamiliar situation or an unfamiliar environment of Send an overconfidence is a pretty dangerous thing as well.
So, you know it just a bit of confidence.It'll take you some way but it's not going to carry you through everything but you know, you've got to titrate that a bit and you've got to have some confidence to have a go at things but you've also just got to accept that sometimes things aren't going to work out and you're going to have to come back and have another go do something.
Different just wonder whether or not there's a toy with this idea of confidence being transferable or or you can get overwhelmed by a big project.Let's say if someone said to you we can Did there's a situation in a cave and there's kids there that are trapped and you need to get them out.
If you weren't able to sort of compartmentalize that into different parts and actually then think back and go actually look i-i-i dive underwater.I've successfully dived to extreme dense The Depths and lengths and in periods of time I've done this numerous times before the difference being and And I have experience with anesthesia's and like so you're able to transfer a lot of the confidence you've had in multiple areas into the situation and really come cart like compartmentalize.
The only difference being despite.Its a big difference is that there's children involved and you're transporting them out like so let's say you were a veterinarian and someone and you never done a foreign body surgery before For and then you get overwhelmed by the whole thing that it's actually wow.
This is a foreign body surgery done before but you may have done a dozen spays on big dogs where you've had to pull bits of intestine out of the way to try to get access to the ovaries and then you'd have to close the door down like transfer that level of confidence and compartmentalize that it's the only difference being is It's the exterior on the exterior as the intestine and doing an interactive me or in Toronto me or something.
Yeah, so I mean if I can extend that analogy a little bit I'd probably the cave rescue is a little bit easier because the alternative for us was that the kids if we left them in there.Yeah, we're surely going to die.There was no doubt about that in our minds and what is more it would be a pretty slow horrible lingering death as well.
So I think the analogy with that with a patient is you've got the dog you're on your own in the middle of the night the dogs bleeding out in front of you.You better do something because the dogs going to die.And so, you know, it's not an easy thing to confront until you think well the alternative is absolute disaster.
So let's just crack on with it and you know if I get any results at all and it can only be an improvement over the situation that we've got at the moment.So I think you can take these analogies to Far, I mean, it doesn't really hold for every situation you're going to face in life.
But I absolutely 100% believe that you need to train yourself for.When's hard things are going to happen by doing hard things and you need to accustom yourself to failure and that's something you can train yourself to do as well.
And if you're not failing it's because you're not trying stuff I'd think What hard things?How do we train ourselves?I'm looking for HR you always I'll be referring to you know, you can't be the hobbies that you do the things you do for fun.
Well in every aspect of our I mean, we've all got it professional lives and we've all got our personal lives and you know, you're going to well, I hope you're going to try and extend yourself in all of those fields of endeavor.
I mean, I don't you know, there's There's no need to talk up hard stuff in the veterinary profession because there's lots to do and you know, whether there's no point even beginning that conversation.Yes, if you can tell me that you've read every book and done every course and you've tried every surgery and you've extended yourself.
We've got a special interests that learn as much as you can about other interests as well all of that so that that pretty much goes without saying but you know in whatever other field of You're doing whether it's a sport or interest or you know, whatever.
It doesn't matter what it is.You know, I mean, if you told me you were the world champion and full-contact crochet, then I would have a great deal of admiration for you because you've pursued something and you've taken it as far as you can take it and you know, don't I mean everybody loves watching the footy but don't make your weekends just sitting around drinking beer and watching the footage you get out.
There and do stuff, you know, it's not going to be adventure sports for everybody.But everybody has got something and life is so short and you've only got one crack at being the best you can be so get on with it.I'm trying to imagine what full-contact that crochet.
Yeah.I don't know.It sounds a bit scary doesn't it?This is I was trying to think if that's a real thing for water.I think Craig would have tried it.
No, he tried the the normal version.But because he's okay.So pushing the limits right gives a push the boundaries now we got to do this quick, you know shoulder pads and a helmet cam on somehow.Yeah.Well now that I've invented it but every record.Yeah, I read it quite that you say You don't want that don't let what happened to those boys.
Stop you from having fun.And that that it with that.Oh, yeah, totally how it would be the worst thing if you know that I mean, this is a pretty popular theme but I'll happily jump on the the hobby horse is that Society is becoming so risk averse and we're transferring that to children and you know, there's some in the classical scenario.
Oh is somebody doesn't want to let their child climb a tree because I might fall out and break their arm, but I ask you what are the consequences if you don't let the child climb the tree, you know, they're going to go through their whole life a not knowing how to climb a tree and B being scared climb a tree and what's that all about?
And that is the the first step in this, you know, Rocky Road of decline of people climbing in I mean stuff happens in your life and I gave a speech to the graduating students at Murdock last year where I talked about everybody is going to face a test in their life.
And you know when it comes it's going to not going to get any warning.You're not going to know what it is, but you're not going to be able to go back and train for it when it appears.So you need to spend your life preparing for that stuff.
And you know like that could be anything and then you might be ill or somebody close to you might be ill you might be bankrupt.You know, I have a big professional challenge or a legal problem or there's all sorts of things.
And unless you used to facing these challenges, then you're in all sorts of bother when that shows up.Awesome, and you can do inside.I know that's done end of sentence.Oh, no, it's just kind of rolls with the think it was a Navy Seal saying and it's you don't rise to the challenge you fall back to your level of training and kind of you know, you you you take on the challenges you take on the experience as you learn from you keep pushing and keep on pushing the boundaries for yourself.
And that's easy to say in a military environment, but it applies to everybody home in there.They're just they're just people in a situation, you know, they're not many different drafts.Hmm.You don't know where your lessons are going to come from.That's for sure.So yeah a friend of mine and if that is the situation earlier this year when he's a he's a surfer and and swims regularly and relatively fit and he was on the on the beach locally and saw somebody out way out into serious trouble.
And and they swam out then and stopped it from drowning.But it meant it's deep enough out that nobody else wanted to swim out and he said exactly the same afterwards he said He's even more so now he feels a responsibility as a human being to stay fit or you know to take care of himself because you never know when when that test will come and if other people stood on the beach paralyzed going like I can't get out there I'm too I can't swim that far away.
Well, totally right, you know or Worse still there saying I'm scared of sharks are not getting in the water.Yeah, and you know, it's a funny thing because the things we're scared.I mean human risk assessment is such a flawed thing.I'm in a Very popular thing with my the shock thing.
So I'll use that that story people are all freaking out about particularly here in Western Australia about shark attack.But you know, they're quite happy to jump in their cars and drive down to the beach and what's more dangerous?
You know, although drink beer.That's far more dangerous.Don't tell me that made.Wow.Well, you're living life on the edge, aren't you and it's gonna Combine them all together drive my car into the into the into the water with sharks ma drinking beer.
Yeah a mic in my car.Okay.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah, so, you know when I suppose I should qualify all that by saying that I'm certainly not promoting recklessness and you've got to consider the consequences of your activities particularly when if it involves risk to other people, but you know if you If you're considering the risk of doing something just consider the risk or the consequences of not doing it as well.
And we're all about short-term.But let's think about some long-term.It's great.I just I just finished a book called faithfulness.It talks about bigger Global challenges like hunger and climate change and all of that.
But but it's a lot of the book is about exactly that about how bad we are at assessing.Genuine risks was dangerous.What should you be worried about stuff you should worry about because the stuff you worry about probably don't need to worry at all that all that much that like sharks or big trapped in confined spaces.
They actually mention that's why your hubby your idea of fun is a is a very natural evolution of fear.Well, yeah Eddie is but that's one way there actually is no danger that the diving they well no, but big confined spaces.
Yeah.What's it mean?I do think there's a Stirring those going to get you or something.It's like the classical one of all is its public speaking?I mean people are absolutely terrified of public speaking and it's probably a natural fear for most people accept the more extroverted amongst us, but you know, what's the worst that can happen?
Right the absolute worst that can happen is somebody laughs at you right?Well some people out there.Spend their whole careers standing up on a stage trying to get laughed at and getting all upset because nobody's laughing.So that is the classical example of I mean, it's cliche to say, you know, the only thing you've got to be afraid of is fear itself, but it in so many of these cases.
Yeah, it is so true, isn't it?But the heard something the other day that explained that to be scared of dying and he's getting paid and we scared of social exclusion because as human beings Evolutionary as human beings it was vital that you are part of that tribe and the tribe excludes you stopped Vehicles did and that's the pier fabric speaking stems from that.
He's scared of being they're working full of yourself at which is as you say if you think of it logically go on that's not going to happen.I'm not going to die because the tribes going to kick me out.Yeah.Well no.Well, I've got bad news for you here, but obviously you are gonna die.Yes, sir.Don't let that keep you awake at night.
You know social excuse exclusion.Well, you can always go and find some new friends.What was the third one they pain but it's only pain.It's a basically that's right.It's so pain is just the feeling of weakness leaving your body.That's an awesome gym mean that one I think is fleeting Woods will heels and girls like scars.
Yeah.They're in the kitchen with the big knife and like know Yeah.All right.So we talked about very sides.Sorry the suppose we got to fit it in some way So for anybody who doesn't know and crab Jurado you being an East coaster.
You also know that in for Craig was the founder of a of a group of Victory practices who say the name.Well, yeah, it was really the only corporate group for a long time or definitely the biggest one sitting when I moved here very very successful group of practices.
So how long how long when did you start that started on the 18th of January?1993?Okay, so certainly when we come to we don't have we come to bed besides ED ED practice ownership.Craig is definitely no slouch in that regard as well.
And I'm sure that's two plus two teachers and lunch to tell us to write.Have you got any questions to start off with I can't I've got a hundred quid And I suppose the the question is what was the transition moment, you know from from vet owner from owner to multiple practice owner.
Like where did where did where did the tick come from?Where did the kind of flicks switch in your mind where it was like I could do this, you know done this before or I should do this, you know, they're well I'm sad to report there never was one, you know as far as starting a practice.
In the first place things were different.So we're talking nearly 30 years ago, and it was just the natural order of things back then that you'd work for a few years in a practice on a salary and then you'd go and nail up a shingle somewhere and start your own small practice and take it from there and the changes that have happened in the profession since then have been quite profound.
I've been very lucky to witness them and in some way be at the center of them in my own little way.But yeah, that just seemed like a natural in fact, you know everything that that I've done in my professional career.It's always there was never any grand plan.
Okay.It's it's always just doing what seemed like the next logical step, you know, plenty of mistakes along the way but happily it seems that the Decisions about numbered the bad ones and yeah, I'm very lucky to say that I met with some success.
It's been good, and it's been a great ride.So it was that natural progression the next logical step was from wrap one practice the two practices and yeah, so things just kept happening really so started the one practice and it was quite small.
It was only a hundred square meters and there was nowhere to go.Okay must have been doing an okay job because the clients were coming in through the door.And so we thought well, where does this do?What to because pretty soon we're going to be at a stage where we haven't got enough room here.
We're already running out, you know one Consulting room not even a real surgery and I just a little alcove for a surgery you can't do much with with a hundred square meters.So we looked around and found another spot to open a second practice after a couple of years.
So did that that one didn't go so well.Looking back, you know, I was a little bit naive in the way that I selected the location.So but you know, it went all right, and then after another few of this further, I'm getting ahead of the story bit, but we ended up selling that practice and paying off the debt and that you know, that's that's a good example of what I'm talking about.
I mean, it was a failure without a doubt it was it was not a success, but where's the harm?I learned a lot.From it and that stood me in very good stead in the future you could have easily at that point said I see we should have just dick stuck to the one practice.
We had I should never have done that.I'm not this is it I'm sticking to the one prank is now well I could have done so yeah, it wasn't wasn't in my nature.That is what you would you think about what happened and then you realize the the maybe was location selection, which played the biggest role there and then you tried so many different base.
On a different decision making process for selection obligation.Yeah, so I mean, you know, it's the old retail thing isn't it location location location that is a very local business and that is without a doubt the most important thing but there were other things I learned out of that as well.
So I didn't wear when I'm negotiated the lease on that property.I had really no commercial experience and I got I wouldn't say taken advantage of because It was my own stupid fault, but I didn't do a very good job of negotiating and that so ended up paying too much easier when you're running at two locations, that's a big leap from from running at one because you have to actually learn to manage instead of just make decisions on the fly.
Yeah, and I actually think that the real critical if you really looking for a critical point, it's when you go beyond three practices.Because if you've got three, you still know everybody that's working across those three quite.
Well, I mean you're talking about, you know, maybe 30 or 40 people something like that.So you've got direct contact they all recognize you as the boss.You know where everything is.Yeah, you know, I'm in a largely built the places with my own hands and you know how it all works and you also know a lot of the clients and a lot of the patients as well.
I certainly found Self that once I went beyond three, that's when you start to get divorced from all of that.Yeah, and you find that you don't know a lot of the staff very well.You certainly don't know a lot of the patients very well.And so you have to start just gradually putting systems in place and doing all of those management things and that's another huge huge learning curve flicking the switch from being a veterinarian on the And to a veterinarian who enables other people to do what they need to do in creating environments that are conducive for that to occur.
I mean, it was a lot simpler back then, you know running a business these days there is so much compliance work and there's it and there's marketing and you know all the rest that HR stuff that you have to do which all of that stuff was a lot easier and you could have, you know, half a decent guy.
At doing it all yourself, okay, or without with a very small time.Yeah, we're was now we've pretty much gone beyond that and you need to have Professional Management in Veterinary practices.Now, you can't, you know, it's too big a field to even be a vet little own do all this other stuff.
So you got to make choices about what your field of expertise is going to be.You still need to To have as much knowledge as you can about all those other fields, but that's just to be able to manage and allocate resources and enable other people to do a good job of what they're looking.
Mmm.Now totally and and did you just learn the skills you needed on the job or did ya have no official Management training or muddled my way through I've never had any formal training, but I've always placed a lot of importance on reading as widely.
I quit and you know, certainly I would urge people to look outside the profession because the veterinary profession is still really finding its way with with manager that stuff, you know, most other businesses have solved all the problems that we're facing years if not decades ago and the problems are not that different.
I mean it's a bit vain of us to think that yes instrument problems that are facing a Veterinary practice.So any different to running, you know a banker and accountancy practice or Supermarket because they're just not they're all fun.Yeah, you wonder why we are behind in it.
Well, I'm so behind we catching up but oh we are look the rate of change is is just it's amazing.It's well, I used the word profound before.You know what I've seen in you know, so not quite 30 years or 24 years.
I was in practice and which you Just a generation or a bit less than a generation.It's completely different.It's unrecognizable now from what it was.In what way is what what what are the major things that that you can flag as changes?
I look if you really want to sum it up in one thing.It's the degree of specialization.Okay so back then you'd have, you know, the owner of the practice and typically his wife and because they were all wives back then I've went through those and you know, they would maybe do the Some and do the interviews but interviews only came up twice a year because you had stable staff and you knew everything that was going on, you know practices either didn't have computers or they only had the most rudimentary system.
So you can do all of that yourself do although all the maintenance repairs around the place and all of that stuff and now you are flat out just doing you know your own little segments and then as a boss just trying to keep tabs on all the rest as best you can and you've got to tow this this fine line between trusting people to do their job, but still being present and know what's going on.
Yeah, I'm trying to learn that while we never he never won.It is too much to learn.Yeah, don't you think you got it all of a sudden something changes and like yeah.Yeah, but it's all exciting stuff.And you know, yeah, it's really rewarding home.And yeah, I've well, I'm fortunate enough to be retired now.
I'm but yeah, that's you know, I look back with a great deal of fondness of with my time.Yeah.It's been very good to me.And you know, I hope there's one or two people out there that might think I was good to it as well.There's anything that you miss about Veterinary practice.
No, I wouldn't.I mean that's not not to say, you know, I disliked it or anything but you move on yeah life to other things and I have got a very full life now trying to do all the other stuff that you know, I missed out on back then because it was pretty home and work some long hours and all of that.
So I was a bit limited.Yeah found time for some cave diving that was about it.There's a lot else out there and You know, I often I mean work is important and it is the primary identifier for most people that is how most people Define themselves.
First of all and that is where you learn most of your life skills as well.But there Comes A Time our what I often like to say is that I've never heard of anybody on their deathbed looking back and wishing that I'd spent more time at their desk. hmm Zedd hitting over the router.
Sorry.Is that hitting home tonight?What are you trying to say?Yeah, you know, I think you don't ever do a lot of owls, but actually I am I've been lucky enough to be given the opportunity to do different aspects.
Yeah, and you know Craig he says I'm before that, you know, you it wasn't like as if you're following some kind of master plan and and they kind of struck a Cool with me, and because I I have some aspects of my life where I want to be and where I want to go what I want to do, but then some aspects of it.
I'm like, hey, I'm not going to control this.I'm going to I'm going to see what opportunities arise see what will push me further and then I'm going to take that so quite often.I don't know what my career is going to look like in two three years because it's changed so dramatically in the last five years, so and potentially I could all or The common I suppose advice you get is that you got a map your career out map you plan out and have it all planned out.
And and I don't know I does that doesn't sort of sit so well with me sometimes and it was interesting not to see you said it in those words grade, but you said in your way that you didn't have that planned.It wasn't like as if you're going to own 16 hospitals, you know, in 25 years of you know, that wasn't the plan from the start.
Yeah.I mean, you've got to take a strategic View.You've got to recognize the principles that are as best you can that are going to guide you and you know, I always tried to think in a strategic way.But it's funny when you like you get to the stage where you're starting to talk to Banks and you want to borrow some money and they all want you to have this five-year written business plan and think I can't plan five weeks never future, you know, let alone five years, but they set such store by recognized.
The reason for that because it is very valuable to sit down and write down all these things and cover across all of these points and do a financial plan and you know work out what staff you're going to need and all that sort of stuff.
But you do not want to fall into the Trap of thinking that that is actually how the future is going to be because it ain't yeah totally day 1 after you print that planned out.It's going to start diverging.Yeah.Yeah, and I think being open to that.
Yeah, I have a plan but then being open to the opportunities that come through that's for sure.And I think that's what I've learned so much over.The last five years is that I get to the position where I want to be but then and I have an idea of where I want to be ahead of that but then things change and yeah, so so you got to have the Strategic view but you've got to also be reactive and be able to take these things that popped.
Yeah, do your best with them at the time?So lots of changes in your time.What's the veterinary industry profession?What does it look like in the next 20 30 years now, so you're asking me to go back on everything that I've just sent to.Yeah, how do you see a change when you not having my crystal ball handy?
Yeah, but yeah, look there's I mean, it seems quite clear that there's going to be more corporatization of the profession.We're only halfway down that path.Yeah, but it has moved during my time from being just a product of your own hands and your own skills, you know, if you're out there competing there are now as much competing with capital as you are with people and you know Human Resources.
Yeah, and you know this growing barriers to entry as well. 25 years ago 26 years ago when I was starting out, you know, I was driving up and down every street in Perth looking for sites and I'd come back with a list of a dozen sites that we could possibly be worth while I wouldn't fancy trying to find one now really because there's a lot of other people driving up and down every every Road in Perth as well and it won't and every other city in Australia presumably so there's that, you know, the practices have to get larger because of Specialization so when I graduate I graduate in 97 and there was this unspoken thing that we were expected to come out and be the complete Veterinary surgeon on day one and you know, I mean you've seen that poster about the vet that's the 21 Specialties or whatever the dermatologist in the orthopedic surgeon and etcetera Etc.
And yeah, we were expected to do all of those and we clearly the field of knowledge.I mean it was impossible.Well then but now the field of knowledge has as expanded, you know, probably tenfold and so you can't you can't even aspire to if you if you're trying to Aspire to know everything then you're being foolish because it means that you're not going to be really any good at anything in particular.
Yeah, the whole generalization specialization kind of conundrum where like the act of trying to learn everything you end up diluting everything because you just you're not focusing on a particular area and focusing your thoughts and efforts and getting good in one area.
I'm not saying you can't dig with an area bit and it's I can imagine that's and that's what it was like for me.I suppose when I graduated I wanted to consolidate but then I knew how much I didn't know.When you when you are hiring vets and younger vets and what were the what are the the I suppose the changes in the veterinarians that are coming out from back then to now.
Well, what do you do you do you feel that there is a change in in the veterinarian that are being produced or they come out of University.Yes.I do.So this the obvious things which is the the demographic has clearly changed quite profound.
So I was the in the last year in my University that had more guys than girls graduating and we had about 55% or something.I think and then within about five years it was sort of 80% female.
Yeah, I don't and you know, it's not just about the the gender.In fact, I think probably the gender mix which was what everybody talks about because it's so obvious but there's other things as well.
So, you know when I went through a very large proportion of my cohort was either off Farm or a lot of them had come from, you know trades or practical backgrounds.And so that actual practical experience.
Yeah, okay in working with their hands in particular, whereas now it's become more of an academic.Pursuit and so which is good in a way, I mean, you know, they need to have an academic grounding and and my cohort pretty conspicuously lacked that sometimes but there's also no substitute for doing it, you know doing stuff with your hands and I you know, one of the stories that that I tell is I remember clearly And to help a young vet do a pinning and a cat's leg which back in the day was something that everybody did that was just a routine part of general practice.
Yep, and I gave her the drill and should know how to use it.And it was the first time she'd ever held a power drill in her hand, you know life now that probably doesn't sound very strange to a lot of Yeah, it completely freaked me out of a tire.
And you know, how are you supposed to do Orthopedics, which is basically carpentry.If you don't know how to use the tools.Hmm, and that's I mean, this is just a metaphor.I'm not not particularly taking a position on that in itself, but that is part of the change that that has happened, you know, most that the population of Australia has become so urbanized now.
Now that most people don't really have much contact with with rural sort of environment.Whereas back then, you know, even City people they still had relatives that were on farms or they went for their holidays in the country and that sort of thing and you know Chase sheep around and you how to do all of that stuff and people just, you know, don't know all that stuff but having said that that's I'm not saying this is A good or a bad thing because there's lots of other good though that comes with with the way we've gone.
Yeah, but this is certainly you know, this is the reason that a lot of it's changing.Yeah, and you know the environment as well.So there weren't the really the profits to be made in in practice back then okay nowadays.
It's I mean, you know, nobody gets Rich being a vet.But if you if you pursue it as a business.Business and do a good job then it can be reasonably rewarding.Okay, and so people working massive hours and you know making do with not not very good equipment a lot of the time.
So those resources have massively increased the practices are you know, largely bigger now not many people having to work on their own which is great as that was.The worst things that affected vets lives back there no more than still do but not that many people are exposed to them working on your own and having to do after hours and not only is it not good for the bet.
It's not good for the staff and for the clients and for the patients either so, you know, there was a lot of needless suffering all of those parties because people didn't know what they were doing properly or they didn't have the resources available to them.
So those are the good things but you know, I'm not painting the changes in the profession as either good or bad.It's just it's just change its about ask you if you could if you could choose to be a vegetarian new grad when you were or today, which would you prefer?
Yeah, that's funny.It's like, you know, I think I mean these people always ask me what regrets will have I refuse to answer that question because I'm not one for regrets regrets.There are things that I would possibly do differently.Yeah.Look I don't I can't really answer because I don't know where the vets of today going to be in 30 years and what their experience will be.
But look, I'm pretty satisfied with my course.I'm not unhappy about That's the best you're going to get from me.I'm afraid.No, I just thought that was just as you were talking.I'm because it sounds like positive change where we are now is there's a lot of positive change.
Yeah conditions have improved people people are better.So even in my in my about half of your career, but things have changed and ready for the for the better.It seems of work.Quality of work and work life balance and yeah.
Yeah.Well this work-life balance things.So I you know people talk about this a lot.I'm still exactly don't know what it means milk more.Can you explain to me what you mean by work?I don't know is the Austin era.I mean more opportunities for cave diving.
Yeah.If work-life balance means that you spend some time doing your work and some time doing you your fun.
Yeah, is that is that sort of like for the purpose of the conversation for a while since you've been my point of view?Yeah, just the opportunity and the energy to do other stuff then just clinical Victory practice, but I'd it's a good question.What is the difference?I don't know if I'm necessarily subscriber.
I mean, I would definitely say overall.So if you looked at my my life thus far Many a young man or some point out for the benefit of the listeners.Thank you.So in its entirety you would say.Yes.
Look I've done lots of different things.I've been very lucky and had lots of different activities.But if you took a snapshot of my life at any one particular time, then you would say totally unbalanced there were years when I worked 60 or 70 hours a week and I'm certainly not crying in my soup about that.
I mean that was you know, oh that was good training for hardening up and it stood me in very good both professional and financial stead later on, but you can't just Organize your life by allocating a certain number of hours to everything every week.
It doesn't look like that and if you want to be good at something then if you want to be really good and I think most people can probably pursue a couple of things in their life that I can be really good at.You have to be a quite extraordinary person if you if you want to be good at more than two things because they need training and if you want to be really good And you have to you know, devote yourself with some single-mindedness to the pursuit of that and this, you know this work-life balance thing.
That sounds like a bit of a cop-out sometimes from that still got to keep things in perspective and keep your eye on the big game.But you know, if it means that you're not going to pursue something with everything that you've done.
Got ya in order to be the best that you can be then I can't really see that as a good thing.Hmm, I like that idea because it resonates with me.I got to say I know you like that everyone tries to impart their version of work-life balance on you.
Right and it's such an individual thing.Well, I feel like we have to ask it where before we started this project language.We said question is our to bunch of business students in new grants.And that's one of the top concerns.One of our questions was what are you concerned about?
Are you worried about and one of the top questions was how how am I going to my In a healthy work-life balance, right?And did you ask them what that actually meant to them though?No, I've ones work-life balance formula is completely different.
So and I think the they try to fit that kind of like eight hours work eight hours for sleep eight hours for all the things and that should be you know, two hours of this two hours of that want you to out one hour and a half hours of exercise a day and that formula doesn't fit everyone but they kind of feel of this should be something think it's kind of what I mean.
You can't spend eight hours a day sleeping.He's sleeping your life away.
We're talking serious long-term health risks.Is that as You Gotta Die Young?That's what it comes down to see how that goes.Shoot him myself pretty fortunate to get six hours sleep.So yeah, there is an interesting article.
He said that most people most people is a very small minority of people who can't really cope unless yeah and be completely fine, but the problem is that most people think they are that's more than ours.T I did read somewhere that there's actually a gene for it yesterday.Yeah, but it's finished.
You'll really small like a Lottery winning numbers of people but everybody thinks you put on you want some of those I think I'm wearing them.Well, I mean that's the old cliche goes, you know rest when you're dead, but maybe by the sound of that I might get robbed for charity for restroom.
These days is getting decent sleep, even if it's not all but you've had a significant impact for you, you know, and there you see I did the like Gerardo I had a kid and then started after out of practice.So really didn't sleep well for five years between kids and after work and then when I started getting the opportunity to sleep again noticing the impact on on why state of mind my energy levels my enthusiasm to do anything.
Let's just am in so much.So now I'm with much more aware of biking and I don't have sleep.Yeah, not look I think they'll let you know that it's all mine.I'm being a little bit flipping.I I think the lesson out of this is, you know, be tuned into yourself.
They yeah respective and understand what's going on.Yeah, and if you recognize warning signs then do something about them don't ignore it, but don't anticipate warning signs that aren't actually there.Yeah, and you know if you're going well, then it's not that shameful to admit that things are going well and just crack on with it.
Hmm.I was going to ask about in your experience.You would have learned a lot about dealing with people dealing with clients and Banks and employees and employers not employees.You were the employer looking back at yourself as a youngster.
And then also looking back at your employees are the any trouble areas of common mistakes in a vet's dealing with their clients like clearing things that you think people can work on at an early stage.And then also dealing with them.
Lawyers you being the you the employer where how do you make how do you become a good employee Innovative practice these days?Okay was a few questions in that so dealing with people, you know, whether they be employees or clients or your co-workers or bosses or whatever.
This is going to send it be done old-fashioned and that's what your mom told you when you were at primary school.But you know, I understand the other person's point of view. and don't treat people the way that you want to be treated treat people the way that way they want to be treated if you can, you know, sometimes people have an unreasonable point of view, but mostly they don't and sometimes they might blow it out of proportion, but if people have got a problem or a difficulty that usually arises from something that is legitimate least in their eyes and therefore it needs to be Dressed and you know the classic example is dealing with complaints.
So we all do that and people dread it and it puts the fear of God into them.And you know, I was really bad at dealing with complaints until I came to that realization that actually is something to be embraced.
It doesn't mean that it's always fun, but it's not actually that difficult if you just stick to the basic formula.Formula of first of all listen to what the client has to say and you know, they might have blown this all out of proportion or have the wrong end of the stick or whatever but it's very rare that somebody complains where they don't have some basis for legitimate complaint, but it might have just started out with some, you know, you didn't explain something to them in terms.
They could understand or the receptionist was a bit brief or she was too busy on the phone and they didn't get their attention they needed.Or you know, sometimes let's all admit it you make mistakes and and they've got a totally legitimate complaint.
So listen to what they've got to say and decide on the merits of it fix the problem if you can and if you can't apologize to them and try and make it up and that's it, you know, and I'll sum that all up by saying just be fair and reasonable and people freaked out by the Saying we can't give the money back to the client because that'll set a precedent and we can't afford it and all of that.
It's going to cost you a lot more money not to give the client a refund because it will make them happy and will make the problem disappear.Otherwise, you know, most people that carry complaints further and I was you know in the latter part of my career.
I was the CEO so it was only the very worst complaint.That got through to me and almost without exception.I mean, sometimes it was quite bad situations that had to be dealt with and it was fair enough that they got bumped to my desk but quite often it was just that they hadn't been dealt with very well in the first place and if people are just apologized and fix the problem as best they could then it would have gone away and I'm not saying that the client would have been happy because If you made a mistake and killed someone's dog, you're not going to make that client happy.
You can't of course they're going to be upset.But at least they're going to go away and say I got a fair hearing and I got an acknowledgement of my problem.And if you do that, then that is how you avoid ending up with litigation or complaints to the board and all of those sort of things.
And if you if you Embrace that Then you can carry that forward to dealing with anybody else in your life.And that's in your professional life or you know dare.I say it in your personal life and who am I to be giving people advice on how to conduct their personal lives, but just, you know, be fair and reasonable and listen to the Australian of the year.
That's it.So yeah, that's just forgave dog for Life advice.A small little words, but I that's real Sound Advice dealing with complaints myself.
I need the big ones come up to the top of the and like they're not easy ones, but they've kind of been some of them you you let the the outcome you ask them what it would be a successful outcome for you here and and it's really just trying to understand where they got to that point and sometimes you It's not about not saying sorry or not apologizing or not giving in when you get stuck on that and you feel like as if your own you're taking ownership of the problem or you're admitting guilt or something like that.
If you keep on holding on to that, it just gets worse and worse and worse.And then whose time you wasting their you're wasting your time, you're wasting your sanity.You're wasting your staffs time in their sanity and and just just becomes this big owners problem, which could Theory go can generally be solved relatively rapidly provided that yet as Craig said fair and reasonable and being a good employee.
Dealing with your dueling dealing with your boss.Sorry, I guess the thing that I would say about that is.You really employer is the client.That's not the boss right lost just handles the money.And if you cannot make yourself valuable to the client and to the patient, then there's nothing that you can offer an employer.
That is what it's all about.So do a good job.I've no other advice than that.Hey mate, that's actually really cool spin on it like a yeah when you said that it kind of just got like hit me like whoa.
I've never heard of that way before.All right, totally true.Absolutely.Yeah.All right.So we start wrapping up I could talk all night, but I think I'm okay for us to get to bed instead of Gerardo.I feel very privileged to have you here, but we normally wrap up with a few short questions.
If you got any recent reads that you think are worthwhile that people should get into what should I add to my reading list?Yeah.Okay.Sure.I've heard about that car.She should have should have had my answer ready shouldn't I see this is It's the standard standard thing for for any podcasts and I'm just displaying my excellent skills that deflecting the question of whether I have a bit of a think so actually this one will strike a chord with you because listening to one of your previous podcasts.
I heard that you'd been reading Ryan holidays or holidays book.Yes, and you know, I have been reading quite a bit of stoic time philosophy and that is extraordinarily valuable.
And I'm going to this is this is such a commonly quoted book that it's almost a cliche but I'm going to say Marcus Aurelius Reflections get into it people.It's a short book, but you should buy one now and carry it around with you for the rest of your life.
Okay, and you could do a lot worse than just read a page of that every single day of your life.Yeah, anything that stays true over that amount of time.It's got to be good good advice.Yea if it's still applicable that I've heard that I haven't read it, but I have I have added mentioned and I stay I need to get around in it.
That's a good one Alright, and then the last one the very last question.We always end on maybe you already said this but you're at a Congress and you've got the world's Veterinary new graduates in front of you you've got A few minutes to tell them one thing we've got anything else to add whatever I see one, but one thing okay.
I don't know if I can limit it to one.Okay.I'm well, I'll give you a clip.So okay, I'll preface my remarks scapegoat by saying that don't you cannot live your life according to a formula and so there is only a certain amount of Merit in running around listening to everybody else's advice you have to Mind your own way having said that I mean there's a lot of really good advice out there and I believe it was Eleanor Roosevelt that first said try and learn from other people's mistakes because you can't possibly live long enough to make them all yourself.
Yeah, but you need to temper that by living life as you see it and being true to yourself and just get out there and have a go at things.However, I have got a couple little Snippets.So some very good advice that I was given when I was a young vet was if all else fails look at the patient and I don't mean that at face value that people don't look at the dogs enough.
But if you find yourself in a spot go back to First principles because you have quite possibly overlooked something or you've made some wrong assumptions.And just go back to the beginning and question everything you've done and it is amazing how many times that you will find something that you've overlooked and you smack your head and thing, you know, okay, that is the way and the other bit of advice.
I've got which somebody also told me quite a number of years ago work faster.You'll save yourself a lot of time.Must also meet.You gotta roll in there a little bit of like don't aim for Perfection be okay with a little bit non-patent Ah, perfect.
Oh, yeah.What's the the perfect is the enemy of the good?Yes.Yeah.I love it work fast that's Strokes my driver personality proper football.That was awesome.
Thank you very much.Sorry, I hope you enjoyed the podcast today with Craig Challenge.And here we are in the Smasher section.I love Craig's no-nonsense approach to life but following his approach May mean you have to be brutally honest with yourself from time to time.
Here are a couple things that we take from this conversation.If something resonated strongly with you and has made a change to the way you see things.Please let us know chat to us and Instagram live leave us a voice message on anchor or send us an email.So first off.What are you avoiding doing?
Because you are scared of it.Craig said that when you in the middle of doing something that could potentially be scary.There's no time for internal dialogue.No time to be scared.Maybe the key is to just start doing it and this resonates with me prepare as well as you can and take the first step what first steps.
Can you take today on something that you've been avoiding?Greg talks about doing hard things to prepare for the hard things that will inevitably happen to you achieving something difficult.Whether it's something physical like a long walk or a run or hiking up a mountain or a mental challenge like learning a new skill or having a difficult conversation can have a massive effect on your confidence levels that sense of achievement can then inspire you to take on even bigger challenges.
This means that when you face a real challenge in life that you'll have the resilience and self-reliance to cope.This conference can also be Variable on two completely different parts of your life.I know when I surf a wave that scares me a bit that are much more likely to take on new intimidating things at work in the week that follows and when inevitable difficulties arise I find my internal voice saying if you could do that, then this should be easy set yourself a challenge during the next month to do something hard.
I wouldn't provide advise against doing something which involves running a hundred kilometers in the mine is amazing experience.Is that much but damn it a lot but everybody how good you feel about yourself afterwards.
Yeah, you know how they talk about pigment Sharia.Yeah Maya I have rhabdo the next.Hey guys, here we go.But many of us the challenges in achieving a balanced life and that is the commit time and energy to interests and commitments outside of work having said that if you're not satisfied where you are with your career or where your life is going consider, whether you were committing enough of yourself to the work part of the equation good things happen when you make them happen and sometimes this means putting in the hours.
At times this makes you the equation more towards work for periods of time, but don't despair.The balance is not always measured in 24 hour increments.He's active list of things that you want your life to achieve and what balance looks like for you friends family Hobbies knowledge skills income people is somewhere we can easily access it and at the end of each week look at your list and give yourself a score for each item on the list.
Have you committed enough time to each item?You didn't they make adjustments as necessary for the following week repeat the same exercise or monthly basis.Make changes where needed and review the balance sheet and Ali.How does this balance overall shape up now?
And that my friends is the end of the episode.If you liked it, give us a five star review on iTunes and tell these three of your friends and share now go smash it.Thank you for listening.

Dr Craig Challen