May 13, 2022

#68: Corporate practice: A view from the inside. With Dr Daniel Preter.

#68: Corporate practice: A view from the inside. With Dr Daniel Preter.
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Season 1

What’s your knee-jerk reaction when I say the word ‘corporate practice?’

The past few decades have seen some immense changes in how our profession is structured, leaving us with some big decisions to make:  If you’re a new grad: What does a supportive practice look like? Where can I find that practice? Do I go corporate, do I go private, do I do an internship? And if you’re an owner or a manager: Where are all the vets!? How do I attract them? What about the new grads - what do they want from us? How do I support them appropriately? How do we keep them? 

These are exactly the questions that we tackle in this episode, and our guest is the perfect person to ask. Dr Daniel Preter was, at the time of recording this episode, the Head of Vet Development and Future Vet Recruitment for Medicare - a large group of practices in the UK, after a 25-year career in the company that started with owning one of the founding practices in the group. 

Our conversation ranges from recruitment and retention, new grad support programs, the transition from single site practice to group practice, the pros and cons of corporate practice, ensuring that your personal growth keeps up with the growth of your practice, how the word 'corporate' is shedding some its negative baggage, and much much more. 

 

Go to thevetvault.com for show notes and to check out our guests’ favourite books, podcasts and everything else we talk about in the show.

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We love to hear from you. If you have a question for us or you’d like to give us some feedback please get in touch via email at thevetvaultpodcast@gmail.com, or just catch up with us on Instagram.

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He ducked.It always have to ask the English mates.I do, he ducked it.Thank you.Yes, I mean I did because I'm from Germany.I did the doctor at as well.So I was Doctor before I came to the UK.Yeah, there we go.And is it, is it printer printer, or printer, or how do you buy today?And last night?
This is the VIP felt.What's your knee-jerk reaction when I say the words?Corporate practice the past few decades.
I've seen some immense changes in our profession is structured.And now more than ever.There are a handful of big questions on the lips of most people, in the profession, regardless of where in the world they are, if you're a new grad, what does a support of practice look like?
Where can I find this practice?Do I go corporate?Do I go private?Do I do an internship?And if you're an owner or manager, where all of its, how do I attract them?What about the new grads?What do they want from us?How do I support them appropriately?
And how do we keep them?These are exactly the sort of questions that we tackle in this episode, and our guest is just the right person to ask.Dr. Daniel Prater, was at the time of recording this episode, the head of web development, and future vet.Recruitment for May deviate.
A large group of eight practices in the UK.I say at the time of recording, because we caught Daniel in the last few weeks of this role.And by the time you listen to this, he'll be enjoying some well-deserved downtime before he undertakes.His next adventure, Daniel worked himself into this.
Over a 25-year career and the company that started with ownership of one of the founding practices in the group.Now you don't get to where Daniel was in his career without seeing a few things and learning a few things, our conversation ranges from Recruitment and Retention.
New grad, support programs, transition from single side, practice, to group practice, making sure that your personal growth keeps up with the growth of your practice, how the word corporate is shedding some of the negative, baggage that it used to carry the changes that he see.Seen in his court to decade in the UK.
Small is practice and much, much more.Please enjoy.Dr. Daniel Preta.But of course, first, I'm going to remind you about our clinical podcasts, but instead of me rambling on about how great their, here's an email that we received from a subscriber this week.Hi, Hubert.
And Gerardo.I just wanted to say a massive.Thanks for putting together.Such an awesome podcast.I've only been a subscriber for a couple of months, but I've already learned so much.I love the topics you cover and the level of information.Is perfect for practical in practice implementation and you seem to always ask just the right questions that I was thinking, and I love the summary notes.
Congratulations on putting together such a great product and helping all our sweats out there to be better every day.Love it from pick.Thank you back.You made my week.Everyone else go and check it out at Vivi and super cost.com.
That's Vivian for vet wealth Network.Now, back to Daniel.Dr. Daniel printer, welcome to the red felt.Thank you so much for joining us.Thank you for having me.And Tara is here.How you doing?
It's good to be back.Again, Daniel.I want to start just to put us in the picture.So exactly who you are and what you do.And then we'll talk about how you got there and add questions on to that.But let's start with your title and then we'll explain or you'll explain to us what it means.
Your current title is you're the head of bed development and Future vetrix.Meant for main event, is that correct?It's a mouthful.Isn't that?Yes, is that accurate?It is accurate still.Yeah, I guess what it means is that, I'm looking after our new graduates.
That's really what it means.I'm looking after our new graduates and also the next generation of new graduates.So, trying to find Talent is the other part of the role as well.Hmm, before I dive into Christians.Everett you keep going.
I'm going to head down a big rabbit hole about Talent, pipelines and Recruitment.And exactly.As soon as you said, tell you.All right.There's a they gave you a pretty big job, didn't they?It's ready.It's jump into the moment.Yes.Yeah, at the moment it is.
Yeah, it's difficult.I guess you could call it difficult recruitment in general.I don't know what he's like in Australia, but in in the UK, it is.Difficult and it is becoming so difficult that in general, not just new grads, you know, in general, is that we we actually had to close clinics and things at some point even just temporarily because we just didn't have anyone to run the clinic, you know, it's terrible.
It's a real crisis and it's not it's not getting better.And there's certain things that really haven't helped including brexit.My name is erected and that being just Just more harder for vets from the EU in international with coming to the UK Victory, sphere.
Totally.It's harder in its less attractive as well.I mean, the numbers and, of course, covid hasn't helped either, but the numbers have reduced by about 70 to 75 percent Nationwide in the UK.Just not just us, not just many of it, but all sorts of other groups and in general employment as well.
The number of applications have really dropped dramatically and it's bad for vets in practice, but it's really, really bad for that sort of official vets, doing meat, hygiene and export-import things, and things like that, because to be quite honest with you, that was 99% of those vets were better abroad.
Wow.No UK bed, wants to do that job.Like I'm at work and inspection of lymph nodes and whatever things.Yes, so it was a great way in, for European.That's because you were really, you know, you would taken without a question, really?
And then you were in the country and you could start then looking for clinical jobs and things like that as well.More easily get used to the language and what have you.But that's also stopped.And there's a real though.There will be Potentially a real food crisis in the UK as well because, yeah, nobody's working in the albatross anymore.
So, It's Tricky off on a tangent there.Directing.It might actually then become a power of Veterinary roll like a, like, a vet nurse, or a tech or something like that.There's now going to start taking over and then they're supervised by one Regional vet as opposed to, a vet being in each abattoir or somethin.
Or I think that's exactly what they're looking at.Because they're just, you know, it.Needs to keep going.And the only way to do it is to give it to a kid that role to other people, and I think that's what they're looking at.But it, you know, everything takes time and we already in that crisis.
So it's yeah, it's a tricky situation.It says, will you buy it?You being with me that since 1997.I was 25 years within the corporation.But the, the what I'm interested to hear is kind of Journey from being a vet, practice owner.
And then was it, did you?Did the corporate by a part of it?Did you move with the corporate or like, what was your role in all that?And how was your transition into?What is interesting, isn't it?Because you think how do you define corporates in the first place?Anyway, what is it?
What is it really?When I joined many vets.In 97 we had about 10 clinics.Okay, so we already it was already not a single Clinic.It was, it was a group of ten and everybody knew everyone.
You know, it was like a family and it was like that for a very, very long time.So up to about five years ago.I would have said we're not a corporate.We're not, you know, we have grown, we put clinics on our lists and gradually.
I didn't know everyone anymore because I couldn't because we had clinics in areas that I didn't get to you still had contact with most people, but of course the more people join and the more clinics that join the less sort of contact you have butts.I still didn't feel.
It didn't feel like a corporate didn't in a way.I guess.Technically maybe it wasn't because it was owned by just a bunch of deaths and it was a partnership and it still is a partnership.So majority still owned by Veterinary professionals or absolutely.
Absolutely, that's changed now.Hmm, that's, that's different now, but up to last year, it Was 100% owned by Beth's and the partnership model I think is quite unique as well because we have the central partners of which we had 15 and then we had the, we have the branch partner.
So I guess within our model, if you want to be a business owner, you can be that.It's not a franchise.It's a proper sort of traditional Partnership if you want.And that also for me, you know, sort of removed that corporate structure in a way, because it's a partnership in.
And all our management team were out of that.Someone nurses.And so it was for very very very long time.The majority of the time.I was with many men.Not a corporate.It is sense.You do that.So it should, we should we Define corporate in?
That traditional sense as owned by shareholders to a large degree and then people get employed in positions to run practices as managers rather than being owners and partners of the business directly.Is that in my head.That was for sort of at corporate and means what I for the feel it, then you assign.
It's kind of like this whole vet family that's like a corporate structure but run by vets, best interests of the business, you know, decisions are made by vets.Still have to make decisions to make sure the businesses are profitable to continue to grow and expand in things, but ultimately not accountable to like the large.
I don't know, retirement fund or something like that.Well, exactly exactly that, but also who's running the show, really?And, like I said, up to about 45 years ago.It was all us.It was a all the bunch of essential part those who are vetting and really were in practice at the majority of us.
We're still in practice here in there.There were others, you know, who just gave up practice because he was just becoming too remote and and if you don't keep it up, you just eat us.Loose touch really but yeah, a lot of us including myself.I was I was in practice.It's not every day, of course because he had other jobs, but you kept, he kept in touch with what's happening on the ground as well.
And I think that's very, very important as well.And of course, you know, it, some point, you get to size.You just can't maintain that anymore when we couldn't maintain it anymore.So, we had to think about holding a second with, so big.Now.We need an HR Director.
We need a financial director.We need a CEO.We need a board.We need a, an executive board.We need all that structure.That bigger.Nations have and so we did and I guess maybe at that point you could call it, you know, from that point onwards you could call it a corporate as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, so if you say you couldn't do it anymore.Was it is skills.Thing was that I capability of skills thing that you went.Now, we need some outside help just a bunch of weights and kind of cut it anymore.Pretty much.I mean if you know we and that's the interesting thing really, isn't it?
If you if you go into a career like that, you have to learn new things all the time because, you know, you come out of that school, right?You don't have necessarily a lot of experience in management and and finance and law and marketing, and the whole thing and they just learn it.
You just have to learn it.Then and yes, you get all the odds people in to help until The time comes really.When you say hold and we need someone in charge of that, you know, whether its marketing Finance, or whatever.It might be.Yeah, that was going to be.
One of my questions is, what were some of the skills that you were completely unequipped for.I'm trying to imagine somebody listening to this going.Yeah.I I'm in a group of clinics with its corporate or a bigger group and I want to move into leadership roles, other sort of rolls.
What were some of the biggest challenges that you personally faced in your growth.I think I think leadership.Up in management, in general, is probably one of the big things because you sort of a sort of learn things as you go along as a vet.
For example, had my own clinic for over 10 years and I had my team and, you know, rounded the clinic and the team and and you just go along and you learn from your mistakes.We don't.And and then when it comes to bigger size, you just realize you can't just do that.
You need proper leadership.Riding it, proper Management training.You need to have a management structure in place.And there was a lot of learning, there was a lot of sort of learning by doing, but there was a lot of learning by attending courses and seminars and webinars and whatever else.
So just wondering how big is the group?Now, how many clinics?I don't even know the answer to that question.I think it's, that's big must be reaching 300 and almost 400.We 300 late, 300, something like that.
All right, so it's that mix of General practices and Specialty practices as well.Yeah.Yeah.Absolutely.I mean, for a very, very long time we were first opinion only but and small animal only, but if we're really proud of the level of care that we provided even as a first opinion practice, because we were one of the first clinics, for example, who had a MRI, CT, blood, transfusion units, all that sort of stuff, really?
We were doing hip replacements in first opinion, practice before most people did that.And then we also acquired some referral clinics who do some very fancy work, of course as well, but it's still, the majority are still first opinion.
Yeah.So you said you liked and you roll his head of future but recruiting and gradual development program with kind of implies having new vets come in, and then helping them feel more comfortable.And confident as quick as possible within the practice, what, what kind of things that you've learned over the years with your within that role like, things that are shifted from what you're doing and start to what you're doing.
Now, things are yet to shift and change.I think that the importance of a structure is something that we learned and the importance of Support ongoing support for the graduates and I find that that has become more and more important from a graduate point of view as well over the last few years.
I think maybe I don't know when you guys qualified.I wonder where, what ago back in the day, you know, you just just get on with it, you just yeah, he does.The are thrown into the deep end whether you like it or not.And if you don't like it, well, tough and Way, thankfully, this is not the case anymore.
At least here most in most clinics.There's still some but some in most Linux you do expect quite rightly support as a new grads because you're not the finished product.You can do certain things, you know, certain things, but you don't You know, you can't just jump in and run a clinic or get on with every single console that you see you, every procedure that you come across.
So, that's support is crucial.And that's, that's now expected.And I think it's the right thing, but as an organization sort of supporting graduates, you need to think about.Okay.So how do we give that support?And what does it look like?And what's the structure like and what do they actually want would do?
We think they need and what do they really need?So it's been a process.It's been quite a It's just over the last few years and I think we've reached now a level where we have a good product for them that they're that they're happy with and hopefully to feel supported as well.
It's going to jump any quick.I just like what you said there that not a finished product.I think for like sums it up in a way like they they talk now.How about the first three months after noon, the baby's born, you know, like the toilet babies, right?There's the there's the fourth trimester where they should have been baked inside for.
Longer.But there's space issues.So we pop them out it at nine months, but they're probably you supposed to really come out at 12 months.The maybe that's the way to the mindset shift that the kind of needs to be accepted.Like they're not a finished product, new grads are not a finished product.
And when you said that a kind of like, it's will be obvious know but just the language around that almost goes like okay.Yeah, you come into our hands and the next year year and a half is where you turn into a graduate vet.And also click like that.
Yeah, I think it's I think that's accepted now but every side so, you know, if by the grads knowing that they're not and and also whether universities as well as the employers that they're not that the finished product.So there is still a lot of work to be done and I think there are more discussions here in the UK at the moment, from it, from official sides, what that should look like.
In fact, they introduced a complete new scheme.Last.August in 21, the called the vet GDP advisor scheme.And that basically means, and it's now requirement from the or CBS, The Royal College that if you do employ and you graduate, you have to provide the support needed through the veggie DP advisor scheme.
Okay.So the GDP, the GD.P stands for a gradual open program, which is Funnily enough, the same name as we have for our program.But anyway, it's basically it means that you have to have a trained advisor and they're at that, that's a CPD done through the or CBS or online.
And it's I think it's 20 hours, you have to do and you do have to answer questions and and then in the end you have a certificate in your unofficial that GDP advisor and only that person.Is allowed to train the private.
I mean, there are other the other vets.You can also train them, of course, on a daily basis, but they have to have that vegibot advisor with them and there's certain requirements that they have to spend at least an hour a week together.Working.They have to spend at least a day a month, having a meeting, sort of a reflection meeting and terms of how the progress is going and learning is going.
But that's a requirement maybe even if you don't have.GDP advisor in your clinic.You're not allowed to, actually employed a new crap.That's, that's really good.But it's also.Wow, it makes it hard for when, if we talked about the recruitment crisis.And if you're a small Clinic is no outweighs it.
You can employ somebody as the GP guy that takes you off the table of as an employer for a new grads.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Absolutely.I mean, you know, you of course, utilize existing.Testing that's for that role in.
You've got someone who's reasonably experienced and they have to be because they've got to be on the UK register for at least three years to become a veggie DP advisor.So if you are new great yourself or two years qualify, one of the three is going to you can't you can't train another vet.
So yeah, you've got to have these people in place.Absolutely.And it doesn't help with to have a recruitment crisis at the same time.I suppose it is a good thing because you have Because I think back to my day sound like one of those beds.Certainly wasn't like he said you were thrown in.
You would kind of expect it to be the finished product.I roughed up in England.There's a local movement that a local thing is like, yeah, I am, but there's no pride in that because a lot of people struggled a lot.I mean emotionally and mentally struggling work completely had the careers, ruined for them.
By that process, by being put in Situation's that you shouldn't have been an industry went on.Even you either.Grew really rapidly or you didn't and you fell off the wagon.Oh, yeah.There's this that's probably a better approach.His I think it is.
I think it's the right way forwards and I think what I find as well with the grads these days, unfortunately that they're sort of Get told by the universities that they're not worth as much as they are not putting it, you know, a bit sort of radical here, really.
Maybe.But I think that they get told a lot things.Like, you know, when it goes beyond cats pay, you need someone with specialist experience and that sort of Attitude to say okay.
Let's see.Let you know, let me let me work this out.Myself is sort of discouraged really and just to sort of get on with cases and the fear of making a mistake, you're being sued by the owner or being taken to the or CVS in in tribunal sort of thing.
It is, it is a big thing now, and the stuff that I used to do as new grads, they Dare to touch because they're just worried.They're going to make a mistake or they're going to be sued.So I think the learning process itself just takes longer as well and you need, you need definitely that experience person next to you because the compost you can't possibly do it yourself, which is a shame Daniel.
Do you think In a way like this support, and there's definite Pros by the whole structure in programming.I can understand that because we've had been involved in creating similar kind of graduate programs within our own organization because of the need.
But then at the same time, if we then say that you can only go to these places and get this kind of training and then it's somewhat like there's a take away, a bit of the accountability on the University, then personal accountability and continuous.
All power or coverage from The Graduate itself where they kind of come out.Like, it's good to understand where you're at, but then also come out and they're just not be too scared.Absolutely.I think you, you're forced into baby steps in and that's sort of steep learning curve that I used to have certainty at the beginning.
Yeah.It's just slow down a bit but having said that, I think the graduate.I mean, look, you know, that's the official.Official version from the our CVS since August last year.We've had a grad program in place for many many, many years.And I think it's great to have that.
Obviously.We just created our own sort of structure and in terms of step-by-step learning and progress reports, and there were all sorts of things.But I think it's the right thing to do as an employee as well because You just know it's not going to work and you might, as well help.
And I think it's important to to give that help now.And as I said, it's expected from the student side from the grad side as well.And if I look back, I'm trying to be critical of my own career or look at it as an outsider.And the reality is that I did learn fast, but I also learned a lot of bad habits and got stuck in its ways of thinking and thought I was doing fine.
And now, 20 years.It's my career.I'm relearning things.And quite actively.Whether that really is, if I had a structured learning process, and somebody me guiding me and could have avoided a lot of things that and then also probably progressed faster throughout my career because you you hit that if it's self-learning, you hit a plateau, much faster or even it's not even a plateau actually go down a little bit and if somebody to guide you through, that can only be good.
It's gonna be good.I think I agree with that.Then you talked before about the concerns and risks of litigation and all that kind of stuff.And there's a large Practice Group.I'm sure you new here or come across or least someone area.
Managers are tackling cases that go to CVS or or go move forward into some kind of litigation or something.But is the consumer actually kind of matching the the risk.It's gone.Like up like the example of thinking about, it's like people coming to work being concerned or working getting worked up on preparing themselves from Deep of difficult clients today and then almost kind of like getting like they have this bias around it and then they forget that maybe once every two days they might have a truly difficult or once every three days, maybe might once a week, you might get a truly difficult client, right?
Or you might have people who are concerned, or stressed and have financially.Shoes, which isn't as me difficult, but it's like hot, like it's almost with hypersensitive or hyper aware and the bias makes us concerned with negative bias makes us look out for it.And then the actual risk, we don't have perspective on it.
Yes, I mean, I have to say that the expectations have risen over the years, definitely from the clients point of view, you know, the things that I got away with 20 years ago.You wouldn't get away with probably so easily anymore.
Not that I was negligent or will?You deliberately made mistakes or something?But it's now I think you've watched much more carefully.I think that's just a fact.So you're either by the client.Yeah.At least in the UK, that's the case.
I mean, and, and will they take it further quite quickly.Will it go to the college?Or I think you will get a complaint quicker?Whether it's taken further or not, is another question sometimes.Yes, sometimes.No, but in terms of complaints, they have certainly gone up and not because we've decreased our level of care, but, because people are just expecting and to be quite honest with you.
I don't think that the You pervert series on television and other super vets necessarily help an awful lot because you just get a completely wrong image of what Yvette's is supposed to do and can do anyway, that's a different kettle of fish.
I guess.It's an interesting point.It's definitely a long way away from James areas.It was, he who was the previous model for what you should expect from your vehicle.Well, yes.And that you kept He going through my studies.You're not alone.
So all this thing's we talking about a minute.It takes a lot of back-end to provide that to your new grads or to you.There's a lot of HR and a lot of management stuff.Is this?Why we are moving towards group practices or call it corporate practices.
Are we, are we moving in the direction?When it certainly seems to be, I feel like Australia is 10 years behind in a lot of things made twice with the UK.Is that still a tie?Action that the UK is hitting that it is becoming conglomerates or corporations.Yeah.I mean it's been like that for many, many years, many years, you know, 20 years.
And yes, of course as as groups form and merge and whatever else I think, what is it now, 55% in the UK and within the sort of corporate world, if you want, we still have 45 percent Independence as well, and I think there will always be a place.
And I hope there will always be a place for Independence as well.But yes, I think there are certain definite advantages of a bigger sort of network and really, for us, it at the beginning.It was just about being a network, not a clinic sort of standing on its own, but having this vast pool of knowledge, as well, of of your colleagues really that you can tap into and we constantly have Discussion still or not on different platforms about clinical cases.
You know, I've got this weird x-ray.Can everybody have a look, please, and you send it to 400 deaths.It's very powerful, very, very powerful.And that exchange the clinical exchange is between the vets in the group is constant.
And it's very enriching, I think for everyone, but there are so many other advantages as well.Like, Like having a career path as what I mean, if you look at need of just stayed a bit, as well, would have been absolutely fine.
But so I just went into this path because of the size.That we have as well and they wouldn't have been possible.Otherwise and there are so many different roles within the organization as well.Now that we have in terms of management, teaching, clinical governance, you know, all sorts of things that you just wouldn't have or that opportunity.
You wouldn't have in a standalone, small animal practice.And you said there about career progression and definitely seen that with my own career.A part of it.It for for at least a supposed myself and Alex will import even cheaper.
I suppose, are you kind of Ford you like at the early stages of a large business?You kind of see the space and then you start feeling the space, right?As a business owner and then you get to a particular size where you need depth.
You need other people to start taking on things like training on the floor training Regional trainers or something like that.So you, we start to develop a talent pipeline of very professions were progressing out of clinical into more management and Leadership because that is that training and those programs that they created by yourselves or and is that something that maybe that is an organization or a company fund or facilitate or sponsor?
Or like have you guys tackled the developing Talent outside of just Clinical Veterinary, ins.Absolutely, we have led department and that's exactly what they're looking at.
Is about upskilling people and that's not just for the vets.And, and the nurses, we have training programs in place.For, for most roles that we have all roles really that we have.And whether that's, you know, upskilling.
Your receptionist.So whether that's a more, senior vet going into management and we do that all in house, really, and of course, there's a big budget for that as well, G, we got a question.So the way for you, but I've got a question.I was just going to say, there's a big budget for that in, is it?
Because if you create the program, then it's scalable in house and it's also then somewhat tailored for your the Um, the language and the culture and the more tailored towards what you were wanting to expect and the tongue of the, you want to develop that's alignment with web, native app months ago.
Or is it just there was no other or training organizations, which really deliver the product you are looking for.So you just created your own.No, I think we always wanted to make it tailor-made to our own needs really.And if you pick something off the shelf, you just don't know if it's going to be the right thing for you.
And because the vet industry is a big Industry, but it's not as big that you have, you know, all sorts of different providers, for all the different needs that you have.You just create a yourself and we have some, fantastic programs, and fantastic, people and learning providers as well in house.
And it's great.I think that's the way the work writing to them, David.This don't know if it's changing.I think it probably is changing.Its Sydney, 10 years ago in Australia.Corporate, or big group, practice was almost a inside was a dirty word, but there was a negative association to those outside of.
It certainly know a lot of people are working to be groups who really love it.But are they still or were there any major misconceptions about working in or working for a big group versus just independent clinics?Absolutely, and I think that always will be the case, but I have to say, it's changed dramatically over the last sort of few years three, four, five years, where people just can see.
And it was more historical.Sort of, even at that school.I think that people were so do be careful of the corporates and the, you know, that devils and they're not, you know, you don't go and work for them and whatever else and, and Was just taken on the chin and nobody, you know, we asked the question, really?
It was just there that sort of thing, and that's changing now, because people can see the benefits, they can see, for example, that graduate program, that we have in place is a year-long and is, there's a structure to, there's lots of modules, you know, wet Labs.All sorts of things just couldn't do that.
Possibly in a standalone, Small Animal Practice, independent practice.It's different.You know, there's not much saying it's better or Worse, but there are benefits for the graduates.There are benefits for all the staff really in a way that some, it's just can't be ignored anymore.
And I think more and more people see that now and also the the sort of official that world if you want, you know, the universities and other sort of governing bodies and what have you, they see that and they know they have to work with with the bigger groups.
Otherwise, there is no one to work with so-so.That's that sort of you of you know, don't touch them.They're bad has not gone, but it's much much better now.Yeah, when the way that stem from maybe it was the more overt focus on business or profit or at least a perceived focus on that by this bigger groups in people and people thought yeah, they all they care about is the money.
They're not going to care about you as a person.You just can be a number.You just have to churn out the box.In the building of your business in your journey in that were there things that you think that the corporate clinics are the big group clinks did wrong and that has changed with it, where they were mistakes that they made, really where you in for, I was that that we should have done that.
We should have done that differently.Absolutely.Absolutely.There were lots of mistakes and, you know, it's, I think is one of the disadvantage of a bigger group is that.You know that's sort of concept of having an immediate boss is not there necessarily.
So you work in an independent practice you work with your boss.You have a problem.You're not happy with about something you go and talk to the boss in a bigger group it that's a bit more complicated because you might work in a practice, but you're not working with your boss, you know, necessarily working with your Regional director with which is you know, the sort of seen as structure in a Certain area of the country, you see them of course, but you don't see them every day.
And that also could create this sort of remote boss syndrome in a way that this Lego they're bastards.They just want us because who's they, you know, is you don't, you don't have necessarily someone immediate sort of next to you to talk about issues and problems and that has always been The biggest challenge and yes, and there have been mistakes.
Of course, there have been mistakes about, you know, looking after staff in a way that you couldn't do, because you weren't in the building with them.Yeah.It's that lack of relationship.The loss of the intimacy in a relationship that makes it harder.Yeah, that's big rabbit hole.
It's a big crowd, told ya.Same question about things that you've learned during the process, but more specifically about the Mentoring supporting because again that you guys have been doing that for a long time, having a new grad supporter recent college grad support system and but it's brand-new for lots of businesses.
Now, what didn't work with the things that didn't work that you tried and then on the flip side of the things that you're looking at.Now that goes out, this is the ticket, this really worked.I guess the one thing that Gratz really do and we sort of touched on that at the beginning as well.
Is that they They want support for longer, and this is why we actually extended the initial graduate program of ours was was only three months, three to six months.Okay, and we realized it wasn't enough because it was needed for longer and it was needed from our view and it was needed from from the grass views.
Well, so we extended it to 12.And and the funny thing is, you know, we did, we did that probably about five years ago now and The vet GDP program that's coming from the, our CVS is exactly that it's also about a year and I guess it's sort of accept it now that that's the sort of timeframe that new grad needs at the beginning to have the support for.
So that was a big thing really that, you know, we had we had grads who were unhappy because the support stopped and then we had to change.We have to change that scheme in a big way and it was A big way because it was a complete restructure, really?If like I'm for me there is always, there's only so much that we can do.
Related terms of support mentoring clinical training and development, all those kind of things.And I feel is that they all that nereids new, or old, whatever you want to feel confident, right?Especially when you grabbed a wonderful confidently, 14 confident, quick.And then, you've got to create a space where they could fail safe or, you know, they give things that go and things.
But what I look for and then what?I suppose I look for now in interns and new grads now is a demonstration or a an understanding that encourages or accepting that you're not necessarily going to be confident and confidence may not be the right thing to keep on Chase and after because if you constantly feel like as if you know, it's okay to not feel so confident and give things a go, then that's more powerful than this end state that confidence.
They which is elusive until we'd ever going to happen.Is it like traitor is a kind of things that you you recruitment.Team?Look for in order to help find the right graduate.It's very tricky, isn't it?Because it's a fine balance.
I find you.Also get the other extreme of graduates or vets in general, who think they know and they don't.And, and that's when it becomes dangerous as well.And you have to be very Be careful that you sort of.
No, you and realize where they are on which ends, because if they're on that, then that you just described.It certainly should encourage them and say, hey, no, no, you do it.I'm here.I'm watching, but you do it and you do the next one and you do the next one because, you know, the Other Extreme you have those graduates who are just scared of doing everything themselves or anything themselves themselves.
I remember working.With a vest who was maybe eight or nine years qualified, but she always has worked with a senior vet holding her hand.And when the senior vet was suddenly gone.She was lost after 8 or 9 years of experience and that's that's sad.
So it's not balanced.Really?I think it's so important to nurture them to encourage them but also to realize on hold on.No, you don't, you don't know exactly what you're doing.So let's do this together.Heather.And next time you can show me how you do it yourself, and and I think it's important to to know your graduate and this is why I think the grant program with a dedicated mentor and all that sort of thing, who knows their graduates.
And after a certain amount of time obviously and realizes where they are and and what they can give them and what they can't give them and you know how much encouragement and they need in or not.Yeah, so that relationship is very important.
So you alluded in our chance before that.There's a next chapter for you personally, are we allowed to talk about it?Or was it a private?This is not, it's not far.We've talked about it.There's not much to say if, I mean, I yeah, so it's been 25 years almost and we just sold the business.
It's not a, it's not a secret.Solid last year and I think it's a great time for me and some of vast majority of my colleagues, our partners ex-partners to look into the future for something else.
And I've got lots of ideas but I haven't got any plans that sounds super exciting.I think it's a good space to be in.I think so.And it's quite scary as well.To be honest.I mean, if I've got what it, what is it now?
Three weeks left and caught me right at the end, but it's getting like, okay, what exactly looking to do.But it is exciting but it's also like 25 years is my career.
Basically, that's it.You know that I spend 98% of my career at many of it.So it's scary.It's scary, you know, but exciting at the same time, you're not going to start a new small neighborhood.Gimmick independent Clinic somewhere.
I don't think I don't think I would do that.Again, curious.You've had an excellent view of the profession and if she did change and in the UK has changing.
Where do you see us as a profession in mean a decade from now?Is anything going to be different or we just heading in the same direction?The crystal ball question?I think we are probably going to head into the same direction for a little bit longer.
For example, if we talk about corporate versus independent and will always be a place for Independence and that's a good thing.I think we are heading towards much more flexibility in terms of employment as well.We have to because of the The crisis that we have and hopefully that flexibility will increase retention as well, which would also help the recruitment crisis.
And there has to be more done to tackle that recruiting crisis because the way it's going, it can't continue whether there will be more clinics or not.It doesn't matter.It's already at a point where we just don't have enough staff.
And we won't be able to provide the service.Us to the client.So people will have to put their heads together and it's already happening here in the UK on a big scale.What can be done to well, a produce more vets, I guess.
And that's again, you know, here in the UK.We've got another 23 vet, schools, opening up, but then also keep them in the profession, keep them happy.That's, that's going to be the big big challenge.Yeah, that's excellent.
Let's wrap with our standard questions.Are you a podcast listener?I saw the question on the, on the list and I thought I'm not really, you should ask the question my wife.She's a big podcast listener.
There's a few things that I listened to in the past that I really find it.He's made many historical stuff.I really like history and it is a great one actually is called in our time with melvyn, Bragg sits a BBC series and I don't know how long it's been doing it in the next few Decades.
Of course, you know, now it's on podcasts as well.And the BBC sound species sounds, it's called, and it's great because he's talking with experts on all sorts of things and, you know, from the, I don't know from the Zulus to the ancient Greeks, too.
In trouble.I it's just fascinating and it's easy to listen to as well.Have you come across?This is the most the biggest History Podcast might not be your style.But have you come across hardcore histories?An american guy called Dan Coughlin who does is a big 45.
Our episodes on also history from history of the Mongolians and the some world war episodes, really good.Really engaging like I would.Okay.He only releases an episode.Every year almost because it's so massive.And with its out to my God.
It's out.Okay, that's five days of my life.God.I really love doing is this thing to?Eh, oh, that's brilliant.Thank you for the tip.Yeah.Yeah, I'll send you a link to it.Right there.And then this is our last question.Our wrap-up question is really highly appropriate to you.It is about talking to a bunch of all the worlds which any new grads.
So this is kind of sounds like this has been your job for the last decade is to talk to an attorney in new grads.If you could give them just one message, what would it be?Gosh, have fun.I mean, really, just see the fun and the enjoyment in the job.
I think, I think that's, that's crucial to us to really try and enjoy every moment and don't be scared, be adventurous, but not too adventurous and, and just enjoy it.And just try really enjoy every moment.I know there's always moments with you think I'm like, or whatever I get into here, but some Just take every day as it is.
And try to Joy.Have fun.Daniel, that was awesome man.Thank you so much.Thank you.Thanks for having me.Good luck with whatever the next chapter is.I'm super excited to hear what you mean, what you said lat?I'll let you know.Yeah.
You know that wedding the practice who just seems to know their shit.The one everyone asks for help with it, tricky cases.You can be that vet.Check out our clinical podcasts at Vivian dot.Super cars.com.

Dr Daniel Preter