March 16, 2021

#41: The yin and yang of emergency practice. With Dr Lorna O'Dowd

#41: The yin and yang of emergency practice. With Dr Lorna O'Dowd
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Season 1

We’re back today with another full-length vet interview, and it’s a corker!  We’re exploring the ins and outs, the ups and downs and the and the joys and struggles of a career in emergency practice, with Dr Lorna O’Dowd.

You’ll pick where Lorna cut her teeth in mixed practice from her lovely Irish accent. Since her early career in Ireland, Lorna did stints of smallies locum work interspersed with volunteering in all sorts of exotic locations around the world. She finally put down her roots here in Australia, where she followed a path that saw her working and teaching in the emergency department at the University of Melbourne for the past decade.

At the time of recording this episode, she’d just started a new ECC job in a private specialist clinic, which leads us straight into a great conversation about change, dealing with new jobs and teams and the associated stresses, how to pick a team that fits with your values, and how to add value to your team. We talk about imposter syndrome, burnout, being a good mentee, and... death - when our patients die, with or without our help - a very important topic that we haven’t really touched on before on the podcast. And of course, we couldn’t talk to a fellow ECC geek without asking her for her best tips on how to survive a career in emergency practice with shift work and high-stress situations.

Enjoy!

I think working as an emergency about for that length of time, you get really good at talking to people and connecting people through those difficult scenarios daughter like same to Eat.Pray, Love it.But it looks like I think I do makes me feel like a nicer person.Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
This is Gerardo Poli.And this, sorry.I'm Gerardo Pollard.I'm Ubud him strapped and this is the bait fault.
Welcome back.We've missed you too.We hope that you've been enjoying the occasional clinical episodes and if you aren't any one, more short, sharp, super useful clinical podcast.Remember to check them out at VV, n dot super cast dot Tech.That's DEC H.
But we're back today with another full-length vet interview, and it's a corker if I can say.So myself, we're exploring the ins and outs the ups and downs, and the joys and struggles of the career path.That is close to my in tirado's Hearts, emergency practice with dr.No doubt you'll pick.
We launched our qualified and cut the teeth and mixed practice from her lovely, Irish accent.But since her early career in Ireland, Laura has spent a stint of low coming in small lips practice as well as volunteering in all sorts of exotic locations around the world, until she finally put a Roots down right here in Australia, and follow the path that saw her working.
And teaching in the emergency department at the University of Melbourne, for the past, decade at the time of recording this, she just started a new job in DC and I private Specialist Clinic which leads us straight.Right into a great conversation about change dealing with new jobs and teams, and the associated.
Stresses how to pick a theme that fits with your values and how to add value to your team.We talked about imposter syndrome, burnout being a good mentee and if a very important topic that we haven't really touched on before when our patients die with or without our help and how we deal with it and of course, we couldn't talk to a fellow ECC geek without asking her for her best tips on how to survive a career in emergency with shift.
Work and high-stress situations.We think you're going to love Lana.I know we did.So let's get to it with dr.Laura O'Dowd hello.Ed Walters and welcome back to another episode.Welcome, Laura, I would add to the podcast.We are thrilled to have you and welcome Gerardo, a team.
Thanks so much for having me.I'm so pretty just for now you guys ask except for, with the day Dawn this morning and then I have a very nervous.Nothing to be nervous about if anybody's gonna make a fool of himself.It'll be Gerardo Not to, but it just happens, it just happens.
Now we fiddle too heavy, you came highly recommended.And you know what?We realized we've despite the fact that both of Jurado and I have been working in emergency for a long time.We haven't actually interviewed an emergency vet.We haven't talked about emergency as a career.Wow, I thought you could totally biased.
It's begin with you.I'd love to hear about your story and you're still Journey from Ireland to Australia and from mix practice to emergency.It.But I want to start at the at the end and we'll work our way back towards the beginning, but later you've just started a new job is that correct?
Yeah.How indeed say, I just started at a site called picture a clinic here in Melbourne so I'm two weeks in and since it's going pretty good because big transition after nine years, my last job.So yeah, it's been been a bit of a stressful time but also been quite exciting than the team that I really lovely.
So, thus far all good with that but still working in emergency center, Yeah I guess primarily a surgery specialty practice but they're trying to offer a broader range of services to their clients and a lot of the cases that they see though they might be surgical there can be quite complex.
So we found someone during elect amazed and septic abdomen and chest traumas.So you know, the kind of cases that do require a multidisciplinary approach.So yeah, my role are is EC and we're kind of, I guess expanding that team or the hope is we're expanding that team.
Does that taking emergencies managing emergencies?During the day, triaging them and then maybe you know directing them towards medicine and surgery but then also managing the critical care unit or something like that.Is that what it looks like?So really it's not primary or like first of an emergency that we're doing it stores.
So that we do, the critical care side of the cases that come, that are complex cases like those adrenalectomy.So, for instance, that needs some management before hands and stabilization, and then postoperatively, the can be a bit of a nightmare.So that's where we come in and manage those case.
Isis rid of these guys are pretty good surgeons so you know, that's what they do.And then for us because they live you with to clean up the ridge.That's the problem.Yeah.Yeah.But we like that is kind of fun.Absolutely.
Yeah Lana you said that it was it's been quite a stressful time.What about the process has he found stressful is it just the new job or it can be a bit of a record?Why, why have you experienced that a stressful?Um, I guess I guess this change is always a bit stressful, really interest, you know.
No matter whether that change is good change or not, you know.So I think making the decision to leave a place that I lost was hard and that was stressful, you know, I made a lot of good friends along the way and where I worked and I had a lot of great people around me and I was very comfortable after being there for nine years.
So I think making that decision to leave with was hard and it was stressful and then Then, I guess making sure that I find somewhere to go to.That was a good fit.I didn't want to make that change and then have to make the change again though, making the decision and following your good.
That it's the right decision, you know?All of that was kind of stressful, but I mean, the stress isn't always bad, right?Some stress is good, you know, maybe helps you to go in the right direction I guess, or makes you really focus on making that decision, the right decision to some degrees so it was, it was hard, but right.
Vision, I feel for me.And so you grow with all of that change and that stress as well, it's hard to manage it in the moment but I guess you got to trust that the journey is the right one that you're taken and for the right reasons and that ultimately the outcome will be what you want.
Hmm.Yeah.Well let this was the that Ted talk about perception of stress.It was.It's one of the most famous TED talks and it was necessary.This dress itself will having stresses perception of stress and what it looks like.It's dress was, you know, I didn't need this, don't want this well, that kind of stuff, that's super stressful, right?
But then if the out the, if you thought the outcome would be that you were better stronger, more resilient more knowledgeable or something like that.Then there's stress doesn't the perception of stress isn't less stressful but you know, emergencies pretty stressful, kind of prepares you for quite a few things.
So maybe like an emergency, that's we don't.Lines that stressful either you do baby at the stars but then it doesn't continue to be that same kind of stressful roads away at you.I think at least any higher, I think other people maybe who come in, they're like lesion and out of it, or when you start that, it can be the kind of stressed.
It's really impactful.But I guess it's different.Kinds of stress and some people thrive on the emergency stress, but then the life decisions and the day-to-day can be kind of stress.That's the toxic, but yeah.I guess how long you you're undergoing that stress.So, change in a job was like a finite time, you know.
Yeah.Look, it's a timing is pretty much exactly coincide at I.So I left my old job of 12 Years.So seven years in emergency and five years prior to that in the same practice and left pretty much.Well, we lived there and may to June last year and then started to new jobs in the last month as I moved into states of big decisions and then the 2 News, I was kind of blown away because again, I'm back in emergency again with one of the jobs and I was shocked at how nervous I was.
And you think yeah, yeah.Seriously after eight years of emergency and you say, they straightened emergency, but I think what it is is familiarity.So they stress but you have some degree of control because in your clinic that you've been in.For 12 years, you don't realize that, you know, exactly where everything is.
And so even when yeah, things are falling apart, I know where to turn to solve it.Suddenly you feel, you feel a bit lost.And then the other things that I that I realized, I thought about it long and hard drives, like what the morning sitting at side of the new job sitting there feeling really nervous and I try to evaluate what am I scared of?
And a lot of it is ego because now they certainly would like I just don't want to look like an idiot in front of these people.You know, everybody knew me and my last job I was a big shot, they're proving myself and suddenly I'm the I'm the new guy and you I want you and I thought I was something wrong with me, but then I had a chat to have a colleague Who I Really respect.
We went for a run during that time and he told me he had to go and do a shift solar night shift at one of the businesses and he hasn't done a solo Consulting, long night shift in a very long time and he said he was shitting himself.He was like, am I going to be able to do this?
I'm not going to stuff it up and like, did you know, specialist and I felt so good to hear that.That everybody put the, put somebody out of their comfort zone and suddenly, yeah, just do heads.Not right.You just not quite that.When you talked about, you know, you know, being concerned about being a fool.
You've been running this podcast meters bad.If the episodes were you're a fool?No, but it's exactly the first few episodes we did, I was very nervous and then you get familiar, you start getting into words, but I thought I thought a lot and let's get back to London.
Pain in your body, float.A lot about new grads during this process going.Well, if I'm this kid, I've forgotten how scared I was.It as a recent graduate sound is very scary.Have you, have you come up with any strategies through all of this, any tips that you could give to people how to adapt to that new role and how to shake some of that stress.
Yeah, it's funny that you say that about a new grads because, like, if we're stressed after how many years of working in these environments going into a new version and then, You take somebody who's never been in that position before it's Amplified by million rice.So it's it's good to think in that way because obviously, I've come for an environment.
For I thought a lot of students who are in their final year since I got asked that question, a lot of be going into jobs and what was good advice and I think in truth like we all maybe suffer a little bit from like the Imposter syndrome or we think we're not good enough and we're yeah like you say we're going to like be shown up as a complete fool, you know?
And so you're willing to take whatever job is offered to you.You're like, oh my God, bleep, even offered me, a job I've have ever taken before they figure out who they're dealing with.I think that's who her people go wrong.I took quite a bit of time and just finding on this job and not deciding really like, in terms of the clinical side of things, whether or not, I'd be a good fit because I think in truth, is that we were all pretty open to learning and upskilling and refilling.
And I don't think that it's a problem.I think, for the most part that generally, excites us, when we're learning new things, Things but I think being a good person fit, like having the same kind of value to me sauce.And as the practice Tools in general, like I think that's where the key is are at least for me.
I think that's where the key is because, you know, if you're kind of on a bottle on a personal level, it's never going to work and you're not going to be happy there, you're going to be frustrated and I don't think it's a good a good for either for either involved.So I spent a lot of time thinking about whether I was a good fit for them and then for me and I think going to the place Was important for me, just absorbing the kind of atmosphere that you know we're people kind of happy and you know, what was that?
They overall like feel and I think some of it's intuition as well because what works for somebody isn't necessarily going to work for another person, right?I think that entrusted into your intuition and not that it is a good fit for you rather than we have Russian in just because you feel like you're not, you know, you're not going to get another job and I think new grads certainly that's a big thing for them because there's some stressed about about I'm not getting the job, but I think your first job is pretty pivotal pretty instrumental in conforming.
Your relationship with Veterinary as a whole and so I would encourage, I guess you guys to like take their time and make sure they're going somewhere, that's supportive of you, brought what people who are willing to teach and to support them in the after Iris period.Because all otherwise, I think it's just so incredibly daunting and and can be an awful experience.
Mmm, my first job, I was so lucky, like so, Super lucky.One of the questions, the students asked me when we are like I did a student panel discussion with some new grants and they asked me if I mentors and I didn't realize at the time that in my first job, I had a mentor you know because like there just wasn't that name on the relationship but it was a guy in the another rat in the practice who had been a couple of years ahead of me, and uni, and we'd Loosely been friends who redundant safety Drinkin team and a couple of things like that, they kind of took me under under his wing.
When I went into the practice and to care for me and so did the bosses as well.They really took care of me.But I think that was pretty pretty important, you know, to have a support network and to have people you can reach out to and talk talk you through problems.And the other thing about that practices though, he was my mentor, this other of that he can my best friend.
So you had a social life to it because I think a lot of people do that when they start off that, you know, you're so exciting.If I, you realizing your dream, your passion, and you give your all to it near like you stay and you're scrubbing, totally surgeries, Dude, it's calls and it's you know, the extra hours and then before you know, it you're a few years.
And somebody asks you, what hobbies you have, when you realize you've got none because you totally lost yourself to the job, right?So I think that's something else is pretty important.Not lose your identity in amongst it all like your vet.Yes.But you know you should also have all these other outlets because I think you need them if it's going to be a sustainable profession for you.
Hmm, there's so many things you said you just if you if you're not careful, you start To think yourself in your head that everything about you is fat.Like so when you re can explain who are, you will identify myself with my job.My job is just how I know earn money demonstrate value to the community.
Share what I know with the world and so forth, but it's a vehicle through which I can do things and do the things I want to do.But it doesn't actually mean that's who you are and then something will just make it their whole entire lives or get lost in it.Always do like we totally do like that as well, and to become fertilizer.
We held there is there's so many different aspects of me.I'm a father.I'm a partner.I'm a like, I'm a cyclist.I'm a runner.Whatever it is.So literally you can pick whatever it is that you want identify yourself with.So there's it's really important.I think people don't really realize the importance of that.
Yeah.I think of the early years, especially right.Because, yeah, it's it's very old consuming can be It's only after you start to burn out that you realize that that all-consuming nature of it is actually not healthy.So how do you stop that?
What other your strategies to actively?Prevent that from happening?I think trying to be mindful of the number of hours you work in the number of like overtime hours, you're working and whether or not, you know, you're accepting all of these extra shifts now, ours, I think sometimes we feel like to be a team player, you have to say yes to everything.
And you know, it's okay to actually say no because there's no point going in.If you're resentful, you that you're going in.But you can't say no.So I think that's one thing like and I think as a profession as a whole were probably pretty bad at self-regulation, ourselves and regulating breaks and the hours we work.
And I think it's quite widely accepted within our profession that for work overtime.And so I think you'd be prepared to stand up and say no one to walk out.The door and not feeling like you're horrific person, letting everybody down, you know, that's one thing I guess.
Yeah.I want to add to that in because a hundred percent agree with you, but it is hard because by Nature, I think most of its are.We want to please people, we want to help.So if the bikes or your coworker says, hey can you can you do this?Do you mind staying back and especially when you knew you want to look good.
You want to you want to show that you are?And this literally happened to me in a new job recently where somebody said, can you do this extra shift in my first?I knew I couldn't for yeah heaps, a reason I physically could do it but it would not be the right decision for me or my family, but my open my mouth to say, yeah, I could do it and then I start, I had to stop myself a good.
No, no you can't do this.This is a very bad idea but I still was really hard for me to say.And now, you know what, I actually can't, and then watching the face, be kind of surprised and disappointed.Pointed.Yeah, and then feeling like a dickhead because I just but my I was thinking man, I hope they don't feel like I'm a lazy slob right out, but I Justified it to myself and I think this might be an important way for people to think about it, I might not be able to do this shit for you now.
And you, my boss might be disappointed now, but because I'm mindful of that and protecting my own well-being, and protecting my relationships, or my friendships or my hobbies, I'm the way to still going to be a five years late.I'm not going to be very interesting who has to quit the job because they can't put up with it because I burned out when you need me.
Five is on the line.I'll be here.What would you say in there is essentially that you have to be aware of what it is that you need?And it's important to you.Yeah, because like number two, so of the top three things that new graduates wanted in the big server that wasn't done the state's number one was support and mentorship.
So I have something to say that because you talked about your Mentor before but Number two was work-life balance and so you go to a boss and you go I want to make sure that I have work-life balance if you like cool and like what does it even look like for you?
You know everyone's work-life balance is different.I think that yeah you know what you bird did was he identified that?Actually this is what it looks like for me and you stood up for it but some people don't understand what or know what it means.For them.It looked like for them looks like for them.
I think everybody has to draw their own lines in the sun because it's like, you could argue like with emergency that the IRAs are insane or they're crazy, the black truck shifts, but it depends on where you're at in your life if you want to work.Like, you know, for 12 hour, shifts in a row and then have like five days off, you know, like that can work for you.
So it just depends on whatever works for you.It is stuff as well, because you do want to help out and you should, you should sometimes go above and beyond, just not every time all the time.That somebody asks because it is a train and I see it on the business owners.Talking amongst each other saying, what some of these young weights just have zero?
They won't go any further than there's a Carnot and it puts the rest of the team in an awkward position.So I think there will be opportunities we if you can don't be stubborn about it.Go.Yeah.Okay, I'll step up I'll help out but if it happens again and the third time it happens the first time you need to be able to say well something's wrong here either.
We need to change the management system or this isn't for me.Yeah, it's been a team player but you also can't be taken advantage of, you know, somebody's always asking you to stay late and work through your lunch and work every weekend.You know that it's okay to say no to those things.
That's like we said, I also think that it's it's from a business owner perspective.It really does come down to some degree and this has been a lot of people going to hate me for saying this, but it comes down to Planning bench.
But we got bench planning planning team redundant Senior Team finding enough staff and is like there's no that's out there.No vets, want to stay.If nobody wants to stay.Maybe you look at what you're doing to provide, just your bets this day or not stay, you know?And it hurts when a bit leaves practice because it takes two years to train, a good emergency vet, right?
So you said, when they leave after two and a half years, we feel like as a loss.But constantly, we're planning like some 12 months in advance, we have to plan now and start poking strategies and start putting the seeds and feel as out there how we're going to get recruits at 12 months in advance.
So to be able to make sure that people don't feel like as if they have to jump in and say yes.Because we a lot of the burnout that we see is is because the exactly what we talked about, people jump in to help because they won't help the team, get it.But then when they burn out as a business owner, it's not their fault.
Right?If if we planned better somehow, if we were, if we were better employees, we had better systems to better support systems.Then ideally, I'll start for stay for longer.So so the I took me a while to figure that out.
And and now that the fact that I understand that now we look in 12 months in advance and developing support systems more than we ever did before, because back when I was in The Plea back when I was an emergency vet, He was literally you just worked worked, worked.Worked worked, worked worked, worked, worked, worked.
You know, 20 hours shifts, 22 hour, shifts with her was just got to be cousin, job done and then bam relationships break down.So, But you said something before, you said something before launer about Mentor ride and this is I agree went like you because we might address the same time must be around the same time or whatever it was.
But like a mentor support thing is really my mind and you come out and has been this kind of, you know, important thing in the last maybe what?Maybe?Five years, five, six years over.No and they never heard of it before.But before then, before then it was just like you want to find support.
And so you try and find Job could like now everyone's trying to find a mentor, which I think is great and the definitely need to do because it meant to a good Mentor, can fast-track your journey, but then I think there's a certain amount of onus on the mentee, on the, the person who wants a mentor to find the right, Mentor for them and the communicate their expectations.
So that that mentored then knows that all of a sudden.This person is looking to them for this stuff, it can provide for it.Opposed to you didn't Mentor me and you're like holy shit like what for me for the last 12 months.You know, I thought I was providing support, nobody wanted this, you know, so Clarity for a mentor is what I would like to put back on the person who wanted a mentor, don't make any bit confusing.
Then to, did you have a conversation with your colleague in the end?The kind of Claire do.Hmm.Well, let's let's ask it this way.So you've been teaching students at the University of Melbourne for your previous nine years or so, is that right?
Yeah, you were involved, right?So you are the ultimate Mentor, what do you want from a good main T?Like what is a good relationship looked anxiety?What were the things that made you be your best as a mentor to the students?Yeah that's a good way to put it in Truth unless people come To you, and they're open.
And they're honest than you, it's very hard to help them on their Journey or help them figure out their way through, whatever, they're trying to navigate and so I guess I could be two exams if you're not an approachable person or you're not open to that.Then might deter people from coming forward but I think a lot of students who and it wasn't always like in it was actually in general, it was never in a formal setting.
It was often on the kitchen floor as we chatted everything, she chatted amongst themselves and I just push You know what offer my advice but it was always those people like a guest who raised just subjects and raised our concerns and raise their worries that were the people like you feel like you could help the most and whether your advice did or didn't like these two could give some impulse.
So I guess that's one big thing.I don't think I ever had anybody come to me and asked me to be their Mentor, specifically, but I did have lots of great shots of people aren't things.I thought were great.They didn't think so, I don't know.But Where you're just very open and you're honest people, you know, sometimes like, I guess you can try and like sugarcoat things and you want to say something to make things, right, but that's not the right approach, always, you know?
So I think there has to be a good degree of honesty and that could be hard for somebody who is in a more vulnerable position, right?You know, somebody who might feel like they have more to lose from being honest, you know, because might be feel like they leave themselves open as I don't know.
It's like if they're not passing their exams or if they're not able to get a job or do interviews, then it's putting them to some degree, it's exposing them.So it can be hard if you're that person, the like trying to reach out and ask people for advice.
So takes some bravery on their behalf and then for those of us who are a bit longer in the profession, I think, when you have people who are junior to you, I think it's just really important to be approachable.And just to remember what it was like, when you were That stage was talking to.
Remember Dot, and Dan Mark Wahlberg, Denmark order from ages back.The big thing about his practice and he's got how many practices now like yeah a big group everybody.Yeah.In groups of practices and they were very structured mentoring program, where they actually marry up, people and make the go.
Hey, this is your mentor.And we have been doing that for the last year and a half, and I think that's really helped with the transition.So as an employer, maybe that's what it is.That is required.That's like, hey, look, this is This is your mentee.This is just as your the mental.Yeah.
And we actually pay our best to do that.Yeah.Wow.Yeah, that's pretty.That's a pretty pretty cool idea, for sure.And then I'm probably puts a bit of a bonus and post people or you know like to be that Mentor that you should be if you're actually assigned stuff Road rather than not knowing you're in that road.
So to speak.Hmm.You talked earlier about team fit and During out, whether the, the new team was the fit for you, how you said you trust your gut are there other specific things that you look for, or was it just through experience that, you know, what works for you?
How do you figure out what's your right foot?I think when, you know, I went there, everybody sting like pretty happy and chatty and open.And I think that for me was quite pleased, it was a Telltale of time.
Yeah.And also when I went Are the bosses were there and on the floor and still it was happy and chatty and you know, it had a nice feel.So it just yeah, it was a bit of a feel of being there.
And then I guess I talked a lot with the practice manager, I guess is his roll back and forth because they do take quite a while, you know, to make the decision and just you know, everything in how we approached all of the conversations with me it felt like a very much aligned with how How I feel or how I want to work in terms of what's important to me and work-life balance or what's also important for me for caring for the clients and caring for the patients.
And so all of those things aligned and I never felt pressured at any stage.So, there was a few different things along the way.And yeah, I think taking a bit of time with the decision how, because then there was quite a few conversations and each of them had the same feel and then at the end it did come down to I think just a bit of Trust in your goals and I think we all probably don't do that enough.
Yeah, and I don't know if my guts any battery day that it was like when I took my first job because in truth, I really think that was why I chose my first job to.You know, I went there.They were all really lovely.They seem to be exactly what they said from the tin and I trusted that and it worked out in my favor that time to how much Well, I'm asking because you seem like a really warm out going pretty cheerful person and I think that counts a lot.
How much do you think what?You bring to the team actually contributes to that culture?To do the your workplace being the place you want to be in?Oh I guess yeah I guess yeah.It's a two-way street.You know, like I might not be the right fit for every practice, that's for sure.
I could be liked and have a lot to say that certainly may not be the right fit for many places and I'm okay with that though that's fine.It's definitely a two-way street.Yeah.But what I meant was you're a pretty sure you bring a really positive attitude and a very positive cheerful.
Being it to your workplace, which makes a big role.If you what I suppose I'm trying to get to is if you work walking to a workplace with with the right attitude and a I'm here and I want to, I want to have fun and I want to work hard and I want to contribute to this team invariably.
You lift the team around you, conversely.You can drag it down.You could work it to the base.Workplace with your shitty attitude and a month later Suddenly.It's not such a great workplace, and you wonder what the problem is.And it might be Venture.I suppose I'm asking it and it gets back to that the nerves of the first couple of days of a new workplace.
My solution for myself of, how do I get over those nerves?Because I ride at work and I went well and I hope they don't do things to differently so yes that I start getting that in pasta thing and I had to set it in my mind to go.What can I definitely bring?Yeah, I've got some steel for sure.
And I know as a new grad you you won't have all those Nichols kills.I know I have some skills that I can bring what I can definitely bring and what even is a new grand.You can bring is to say, I can bring positivity, and I can bring bring energy.And if I walk in and there's that, you know, sometimes you walk in and people are down and you're gonna change, you could cut the atmosphere and you go, I can change that.
You actually have the power to change instead of getting sucked in.You change it and you don't need to be experienced to do that.Yeah, yeah.No totally totally.I listen to you another podcast, actually.Old to happiness.Love going to talked a little bit about that about emotional contagion.
I've never heard of it before, but when I heard that I was like, you know what?That makes perfect sense.You know, you walk into a room and you know, if there's one happy person in there, then it's a bit infectious, right?Everybody is kind of sent to the mood, but on the converse of that you walk into a room and one person walked in and they're wondering about and the doors slamming and just sighing, everybody starts to be on tender Hooks.
And yeah.It's not a nice place to be, so I definitely think we all of the massive right to contribute.You know.It doesn't mean we all have to bounce in the door.No.But I do think that what a smile and having a positive attitude is 90% of the battle, isn't it?
It's like I go back to I always think everything else can be taught my clinical skills can be thought but if you go in and you do try your best to just bring as much as you can in the way of your energy.I think that's pretty important.I saw it at work.Guy sitting in wigwams and I was watching it happen.
I was watching a single mood, contaminate the whole work environment like that, and I had this mental picture of a tin of white paint and then you get a drop of black pride in that and you mix it in.Yeah, and it's no longer white bright, it's just spreads throughout that whole team and just be careful that you're not the discoloration of the team.
That's exactly it.You kind of like when you when you paint the pictures like it what's it like when when someone can't construes cranky Like oh it's terrible.Several and then like that and they're like oh my God I'm like that emotionally changes like also its emotion doesn't necessarily just manifest in like a happy smile and like a cheerful mood it also also manifests in movement in energy like you walk in with energy are you move around with energy?
You know I think that it's a hundred percent true.Like you can feel the mood and someone can really bring it.It down and, you know, it's your responsibility.It's not the team.You can't come to work.You picked the team to lift your mood.I'm in shit.They, I'd like the team's you help me, feel better about it.
Like, that's unfair really.But, you know, the other thing is, I think like some people aren't as aware of themselves as maybe others are.And, you know, we all can kind of shy away.Those conversations on that person who is like Moody, you know, they may not be totally aware of the energy, the ringing, and All kind of like just back out back away.
Don't deal with the little bit, you know.Like when I was at the UT, one of the things we had started to do some, we're teaching students.We would do face-to-face and kind of play scenario site so that they themselves could become more self-aware and they realize what they were putting out because I think learning that is a bit of a journey in and of itself.
And I think a lot of people in the do realize that they're open to change, not everyone.This is where.Yeah, this is where you open conversation with your mentor on the floor.Honestly, tell me.
Well actually, you're cranky bomb, quick Solutions, on both sides of that coin.It takes a little bit of Courage.The one is, if you go to work and you are cranky, you don't always have to be bouncy and happy and cheerful, but I found it really works.
And again, it comes into comes down to that self-awareness, but if you arrive at work, And kids have given you a hard time or you had a fight with your partner or say, so walk in and say, hey guys, I'm gonna shitty mood.If I'm cranky, it's not, you not having a tough time.You'll probably get a cup of coffee and I are going, you'll probably feel better immediately and vice versa.
If there is that an self-aware person to go to them with kindness and say, you can make because you really not you not too happy sell for you, is everything, okay?And then suddenly look at shit, I'm showing it and it can't be the right sort of most We'll take that as a yes.
And they'll tell you and everything ticks along a bit better after that.Yeah, yeah, it's funny.We're always often afraid.Isn't it to say, like what's really going on, you know, you put on the front of you think you just even everybody really actually you're not be terrible body language is shout it out isn't it usually right?
You know, those conversations that you have, it conferences back in the days when we still had big bed conferences, when people are chatting to the lectures and asking questions, and you hear things like this isn't really in the books.But here's what I think, it's in those kinds of conversations that the best nuggets of wisdom appear, the nitty-gritty of real-life details that you can only get from here is and years of experience.
And it's exactly those kinds of conversations that we try to emulate on the vet Vault clinical podcast.We don't want lecture, We want to hear about the challenges.The tips, the staff UPS there.This is how I do it.Go to VV n dot super cast, dotnet to join in the conversation.
Okay, well, do next.Let's talk about emergency as a career.How tell us your story because you qualified and then you did mix work in in Ireland?Is that correct?Yeah.I started after you.And so, yeah, I'm very kind of Journey to CCC was a bit been all over the shop, probably like a knight in emergency, but I started off a large animal practice and I think one of the reasons I kind of fell into that is because my teachers and Dublin were just on the large side were really Good fun and really approachable and friendly and it was hot.
We would have called a safe learning environment.You know, you didn't, you weren't made to feel like a complete him to see if he asked questions.So I think it was quite drawn to large.She's caused it - not necessarily because I had for your skills or ability in that area.Yeah.So that's where I started off.
And after a while I like to kind of realized it, probably wasn't for me.There's ruled and reigned in the mock, like, trying to put back in uterus, is that?Were bigger than me, that was maybe.Yeah, yeah, probably not the path.I should have chosen, but I kind of stole my dolly on some small animals started with June charity trips.
So after a couple of years, they a friend of mine actually suggested go into Peru.I thought perfect love fun.So she was an emergency were, actually and we went after together to spay neuter campaign and that was kind of my first ounce of straw leaves.
And Kind of little back and forth between two.Large, he's and charity work for a few years and then when I moved to Australia, I ended up in small animal practice and again I kind of fell into it.I went to visit a friend and then got offered a job at her Christmas party.
But in the remaining few lines on board and so there's the odds of everybody saying they can't find veg.That's how you get today dude, you get them drunk, make them sign the contract. yeah, I think it's called Shanghai everybody because I was like, yeah, okay, so I ended up being there for a year and what I found during that year was like all of the cases that I really Eat her with the snakes and the ticks, and the trauma.
Like all these picking dogs, that you got called to at 3:00 in the morning because they'd had like been speared through the side.So I kind of got me started like started getting thinking about emergency and my friend of a friend had worked in Melbourne, uni.And so they encouraged me to apply or to reach out to those guys.
And I actually sent my CV to them when there was no job available.And it's just kind of happened that shortly after I did that a job came up, maybe my room.Ah-choo them not having to advertise her for that long, or again, there's a bomb, getting the job.And I was a bit, shocked really, to be honest, because I know emergency experience.
So kind of landed a job in the uni.I felt like what have I done right?Of life.And my death are applying but I was pretty steep learning curve for the first couple of years, was exciting.But yeah, I was pretty tough.
So, what was the role for you?You teaching straight away or you just a Consulting with I did not see the role of the clinical teacher.I was part of a pretty big team and, you know, they have been doing emergency for quite a long time.So it was a well-established part of the clinic.
So you are just kind of thrown to the lion.So here you go, for the knife by yourselves, the wouldn't do that because obviously, that wouldn't be good for them for you or for the clients or the patience or anything like that.So I had a lot of support and I started there.There's a lot of them are just to see back there and they do pretty good facilities.
So started as a clinical teacher ER and then gradually is to say like built up my confidence.You know, you got involved in more teaching and as time went on, you kind of take on more rules.So yeah, it kind of transition gradually like towards the end, he I was taking on more teaching responsibilities which was really fun.
Was, I didn't actually go into the job even though it was University.I just didn't really think about the teaching I love him for that.Element of it.Funneling enough, you know?Might find Matt, but I actually hadn't thought about that.But then when I got into the job I realized that actually that was the thing that or one of the things that I really absolutely loved about.
Yes.I'm probably kept me there for as long as it did and was really, really rewarding part of it.So you know, the emergency side was great and and I definitely loved all the cases but in the end I probably did.I maybe like the most, was the teaching side of us.
Yeah, I love teaching.I like having an impact on students and also sharing stuff in an engaging and energetic way, which makes them kind of love the stuff that you love when they come to the clinic, at least for us.Because now we run the emergency rotation for one of the universities and our state.
When they're they're like adverts on Ron better on.I would say they're on their A-game because well that piss you know you're constantly being questioned and asked and not in a bad way they're thinking of questions that you could never have thought.So you kind of uncovers all the gaps in your knowledge, you know, guns so that's that's a really good part of it.
Keeps you on your toes and it's just fun.It's not having that energy around.It was you being emergency veterinarian for gosh, almost a decade, right?Same with me.I'd love to hear what and humid, but we didn't usually done after three decades, but what would, what would what do you feel?
What do you think, would be the downsides of emergency and critical care?Yeah, I'll be the dime sides.It's funny because it's you know, in some ways the option the Danes are not too dissimilar, right?Because like you could argue that the dames are the hours that you work the nights weekends, the long shifts but on the flip side of that you can actually work but number of long shifts in a row and then have a bunch of time off, you know?
So there's like a pro and a con within the same, you know.Umbrella.And then like work in the nights.I mean, after a while Definitely become pretty exhausting and less pain than all of the other shifts.But on the flip side of that is the kind of the makings of you as well.
Because when you're there by yourself at night, you have to make decisions.You don't have that time.Like, oh, I'll just wait for 6 to 12 hours and somebody else comes in.So you're not the type of cases that you can't make decisions, you know, the ones to be repented at your leisure.Right.So I think even though they're tough they're the really pretty instrumental in making you stand on your own two feet.
Eat and develop a lot of those decision-making skills.So over the road, a con hundreds of same kind of in the same way.And I think that's the same about the cases to write because often the cases are really intense and the really complicated and there come with owners who just have, like, the world fall apart, you know, their tongues just been hit by a car and it's like incredibly emotional and hard for them.
But on the flip side of that are the cases that you can really make such a difference to And I think working as an emergency vet for that length of time, you got really good at talking to people and connecting people through those difficult.Scenarios daughter like same to, to Eat Pray, Love it.
But it does.Like I think I do makes you feel like a nicer person but it does get exhausting that after a while because all of those conversations with people who are obsessed, you know, it's hard.And then I guess the money side of it with emergency is another big thing that's hard because people don't plan for emergencies.
Yeah, that's not like everybody is an extra 10, 20 Grands didn't ring the Bank account that they're just waiting to spend on their animals so you do see a lot of euthanasia.Yeah and it as well.And that can be really hard especially when its Financial study takes its emotional toll in the I think for sure it's a.
I like that.I like a lot but you said it is exactly.It's the gin and Yen the the good stuff, the bad stuff, just depends how you look at it.And depends how much of it you getting and it's in the right dose.It's excellent and too much.It's too much.Yeah.I really like that what you said about it, it can make you a nice person.
I'm gonna go either way.You could go.I thought of it the other day you could you it's going to make you grow, you either gonna grow wise or you gonna grab it and you got to decide which is going to be because you get yeah, exactly.What you say.You see people at their worst.
Yeah.That comes down to the culture.The your mentors as well, because they will, they will catch.They will catch it, right?That will get that.Will you go?This client wasn't an asshole, right?And a little of that, and they're like, you know what, I get it right is that they're hard, they're difficult, but you know, no one plans for emergencies.
Yeah, well, no one wants to be here at 1:00 o'clock in the morning on a Sunday or Saturday night.They should have brought this in two days ago in the stupid fucking height.And then you make yourself really upset angry at the world, and people suck and You flip it around or I feel I've started flipping it around and I go, well, they didn't bring it in two days ago because they didn't know they don't have the knowledge that I have all the yeah, they didn't want to come in because they were yet of what you're gonna hear.
And now they have it.And you don't need to make the feel any more stupid, you just need to help them and I, yeah, here's the part.I don't even have that anymore.I'm just like, okay, here the is now Howard.What are we gonna do?Is we figure out all the time.Why didn't the ring is?It's like I say, we just cut the question out of my head.
Yeah.Even ask the question.Yeah, just makes you feel straight at, you know?But the truth is like what you just said, it's true.Like, you're expecting people to have that level of knowledge that you have.Like, a lot of friends have got pets and they're smart people but they don't always know what's going on or what's happening and then they talk to you like oh yeah, yeah you got to like you got, we got to get this sorted, you get the man and you know, then they told you panicked and they're like, probably had no one, you know.
So, you know it's it's hard to know those things.Sometimes there's an owner and then owners are always afraid of being like, over-reactive, right Ike.I don't want to be wasting your time.It's hard to know.Always, when exactly that moment, you should bring something and the truth is like how often to people roll their eyes and something comes in and there's no problem with her lip flipping.
The question we asked before which was around, sort of what was it?It was a downsides.I can't kick a.What do you think?What do you think then?Would be like your top three, four tips for surviving in emergency.Oh, nice ones are at it.
Sometimes it comes out I didn't even write that question.Derided as.That's right.I have no ritual questions for him of a puppet for human.What would be the tip gosh?
Now, let me think you put me on the spot and so I think are some of the tips I guess are by virtue of being in a workplace that was supportive and had a lot of support staff around.I think I got lucky in that respect because they didn't even know that it was a tip per se.
So I think when you have a bit of support that's usually instrumental to being able to survive.And if you're thrown into the deep end, you're there by yourself and you're trying to manage like really critical cases and you don't have enough people around then I don't think you're ever going to be able to sustain that.
So I guess finding, you know, place whereby if you're going to be managing, really difficult cases that there's support available to do that.There is enough.Staff to work those hours that you have the kind of facilities required to manage those cases because otherwise you probably shouldn't be in that position where you're doing lunch and then I guess knowing how to manage your iris and what, what you can do, what you can to become.
So think like and I'm figuring that out, I guess before you to accept a job.Like if if their plan is you do seven nights in a row but you know, that you're not able to do that.I think embarking upon that is Just Insanity for you and for everybody else around you because you're you will then be that nightmare person to work with you know your Yap.
And so for me coming towards the end, I knew that three nights in a row for me was Max.I was exhausted by the end of that and it wasn't initially how I was at the start but it definitely was how I was at the end of stop doing night shift now.So I knew what my own limits were in terms of my hours.
And so I think it you got to be really clear about that and not trying over stretch yourself when you're doing those kind of intense long hours because yeah, I will be your downfall ultimately.So I think that's another big one.I think the other thing about emergency and critical care is I think we are all like really busy.
Always trying to up skill in our clinical stuff, we're always doing corpses and CPD and I think we sometimes forget about the other side of it like the non-technical skills, you know, being emotionally resilient and learn and how to deal with all of the traumatic.
Cases that, I mean, not more from the sadness that can be part of emergency critical care.And, you know, the clients that can be difficult whether or not they're difficult just because they're difficult or whether or not they're difficult because they're going through emotional turmoil, like learn and had to deal with all of that.
I think is so incredibly important.I think you can sit down and you can read things and you can try and two courses on it and you can also think like for me, reaching out to some of the other vets that I worked with and trying to figure out how they deal with all of that stuff and talking about it.I think that's pretty important as well.
You know, I'm gonna be that's not just emergency credit card, maybe that's Veterinary.The whole I think that's something that's pretty pretty important.So, you talk about sleep and we talk about number of shifts in all of that.To me, I personally think that's the end of the thing that's going to be the end of an emergency.
Career is the lack of sleep, there's ways of coping with didn't, but I think eventually it that, but while you're in it, yeah, and I love asking other emergency rates this guy had my strategies, but what were your strategies for surviving with the disrupted sleep patterns of Night Show?
How did you like, what did your typical run look like how did you cope?What did your morning look like after shift?When did you sleep?And you have things that you found worked for you?I didn't have more earnings, definitely, not boring person.
While I was emergency measures of whether I'll ever be about sugar.But I think, I think the longer I was an emergency back the more time I invested in trying to figure out what I should and shouldn't be doing.I think at the I'd said, I was always cutting Corners.I was like, Like coming off a road on and like sleeping for a few hours and then getting up and, you know, trying to be functional.
And so I was always trying to figure out where I could cut Corners shave off sleep, but I think then, when I was in the career few years, I figured I thought probably was not healthy.And so then I started to, I guess, I like red debate, shift work, and how to manage it and trying to figure out even things like how you eat during your shifts, can be impactful on how you survive shift, work it safe, like you read some of the things about sleep and sleep studies.
They talk a lot about ways to manage it and so I think the thing that I learned from a lot of the reading I did was star depriving yourself asleep.You know, I used to joke around and be like, I just borrowed from the Steep bank, I'm going to pay it back later, you know, it's no problem to be like.
That's not a real thing.They go to bed.I used to think sleep was the enemy until Alex.I don't think sleep is the enemy.I love you so much.I didn't sleep enough.Yeah, surviving on no, sleep was like, yeah, you're a hero, you know, he was coming back for hours later and then do another like, buzzer 14 hours and and I came back and it was and I almost came back because of ego, like, yeah, here ya back.
He's doing it again.Yeah, looking for hours.Maybe it's like the cinnamon terminals.Like, five hours.I was back again.Yeah.And, and I did, I didn't know who want any favors coming.It is crazy.I thought like, yeah, I'm Regency that's come off their shifts and then just not sleep that day, you know, and stay up the whole day and then go to bed that night.
I mean I would have been like, an absolute zombie, but yeah, I stopped some of the things I did was, you know, I wouldn't like have black, I blinds make sure it was going to be as quiet as it could be, and just dedicate those six to seven or whatever.They may be hours to sleep and not plan things not.
So yeah, I was going to commit to XY or set on the Run of shifts.I was working just commit to sleeping and see that as equally important as everything else that you were doing, you know.So I was a bit of a change of mindset.I think few years in figuring out that it wasn't a wise move to not.
Take care of yourself.You know, I'm an employer perspective.Well, the the only thing that I would add here is the know one of the common reasons, why our vets decide to leave outside of sleep and health.
I would just have chronic health issues after a while.I couldn't sleep would be a loss of social network.Hmm.They did Lutz working, Saturday, Sunday, nights Friday, Saturday, Sunday nights.Because generally the busiest time and emergency hospitals.They just slowly start to disconnect from their friends and they feel it, they feel especially young vets, they feel it?
Yeah, well that seemed to be like, okay, yeah, I'll catch up when I want to catch up with them, but they're more proactive around it, but younger younger guys.So start like don't get invited to places that, you know, By the parties.And I like, I never had the problem I was invited to read.Maybe there was just do it then though that like you end up hanging out with all the emergency team, you're always like figuring out who's off when they're off because you're always off in the weird and wonderful times when nobody else has that had to say, like, Jude emergency, I met this great buddy because Nobody else is absolutely.
We were there were great by virtue of just being the only people available that that strategy.This is trying to do some of the moods, you re you re establish, new friendship circles.But some people know, they just need to see what they've lost and then maybe they just didn't like you here either.I like it, I think we should make no no permanent co-host, I added that out here at that.
That's that's a co-host request.But you know that's like another thing about doing the nights that I change as well you kind of You feel like you're in the trenches with the people that you're working with.So you do develop some pretty close bonds, don't you?So you kind of are eager to see the light side of work, you know, sometimes it's bad because you talk about work a lot but it's a way to diffuse to, you know.
So I used to find that that.Yeah, you you be some looking to catch up with those people, you did the night.So it's because you're like, yeah, we survived, we did it together.Let's do, I feel like everything, you say sounds, so familiar.That's the same pattern of I'm Invincible.I don't need to sleep, I can do this.
And then, Slow learning.And then by the time you learned all of it, you go out burnt out.I can't do it anymore.I feel like we're talking about this and the newcomers to emergency probably won't.Listen, they have to give to learn it the hard way.If anybody's listening and going to do anything, you are not Invincible.
You do need sleep and the sooner you learn at the long.Are you gonna last?I think I terrified.One of the interns that are practice the other day and I coach people, you know, you know, stats from shift workers and their would you survive like, longevity and yeah.This is like, what a lot of good to die sooner.
Like definitely gonna die tomorrow and do the internship.I think about 300, is this study?I think, from somewhere in the Scandinavian countries, they classify shift work as a custom engine on a par with cigarette smoke.Yes, yes yeah you don't want I read that and I don't think I was the better reading that for probably a good, you know, six months because I was anxious excited and think about it a lot.
I think I helped my game.I'm at that stage a lot in terms of how I took care of myself.Lorna the great thing about a podcast is I can I can Google still people and it's not and it's not creepy at all.It's my job tell us about do you I'm sure you remember Winston oh my god.
Do I remember?Yeah I mean that was pretty incredible.That was pretty incredible.Yeah he was a little dog that came in one night to us when we were at the uni and he presented Dead on Arrival.And so I was one of those where, you know it was like I think it was a Sunday night heat and everything was under control.
It was maybe around 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning and so all the patients were kind of sleeping.Everybody was on top of their treatments and it was licensed this little peaceful and the next thing you know, saw this car speeding because we've got cameras and we can watch the camera as from from the emergency room and we I saw you just knew immediately the Panic that was about to ensue this, like lady jump from the car and she rushed to the door.
And was banging, banging banging on the door.And we were lucky enough to have security guard.Who is pretty invested in all the patients than pretty happy to help out like, with anything and with everything.And so, rather than waiting, for one of us to come up, he just instinctively knew was really bad.
He just took a little dog and ran down to us in the emergency room.And so it, Was Dead on Arrival.You know that sinking feeling when you get get this little patient and that their people are just so distraught, but you're like, oh my gosh, she's dead, obviously, start CPR immediately but you just, you know, you just you think it's never going to work.
I gotta kind of think you're wasting your time.Yeah I guess the house.You know so many CPR is an emergency that law of averages comes into play and unfortunately most of them you can't solicit 8 and we started doing a reef sauce and there wasn't Myself and two nurses there.
So we're pretty lucky in that respect because I don't think you can really do a successful resource unless you have that number of people at a minimum.So we worked on him for.Yeah, I guess I don't know because time goes, you know, kind of fast and slow in those moments.But you know it probably was like somewhere in the region of 5 to 10 minutes.
We were doing CPR and one of the nurses was watching the end title and you was watching the creep off and then she was like watching you see G and she was like saying Amigo.And I think we're getting him back and I was back again.
There's an emergency that cuz I was like a better.We get his people fast because you can arrest again.Okay, I'll tell you again, you know?So and then the next thing, you know, he was like, lifted his head and he made a full recovery.
Was just, yeah.I felt like, but like completely like delirious and elated.I think we all did to know and Actually happened to him.Had why did he die?So it was, it was his folks are gone up in the middle of the night, and it was actually quite sad because they had to go to the hospital because they're Grand.
Dad had passed away, and they got up and their little dog woke up.And so, they fed him a treat and he choked her -.Yeah.And so, yeah, just like a healthy, lovely little guy.And then the next thing, you know, it was, it was pretty, pretty, pretty special.
Killers walking on clouds for quite a while after that.I think that's it's a big draw.Isn't it with emergency like those you know type of cases.I mean if you hadn't gotten them back then you know they're the ones that are so incredibly sad but gosh when you do that's the pretty it's a feeling that's hard to match.
Right.Very much so that I don't think I've ever had one like that.That's why I had to tell that story.It's actually I read that.I was like, all right, I'm going to start.Start trying harder again.Well, it does the brain fills your faith in us, you know?
Because you do get a bit disheartened, right?Sometimes.Yeah.All of those stories.I could Ted all night.I think it's mostly longest podcast.I've got about five wishes.I wanted to talk about I was going to talk about death and dealing with death of patients again because of because of it, I thought I had the other night I realized Tell me if this is just me, but I think as you get better and you get more skilled at saving complicated patients, as you start getting this attitude of, nobody's going to die on my shift and there's, at least I decided to get it done.
Yeah.And I because I euthanize you because the only design but otherwise, you don't fucking dying until my shift is over and it's over 30 go.Think II found it was, I was like this.Dried really whatever.If it has to go, I don't know.
Yeah, like I can make sense because I don't remember the last patient that actually passed away died without actually that you're concerned that without finding a patient.Did not say anything against that, then don't have to be either.
Do that.Did make me think there's something else that happened at another job with another video said, something about helping out at A wildlife hospital, and they obviously a failure High euthanasia writings, and one of its head it can get some of its down the, the euthanasia which made me think about about it and I say weirdly didn't really bother me.
I just I feel like well to be to be at a patient dying because it's time because there's something seriously wrong isn't, it's not such a big deal for me.I think a lot of its take it almost person and I don't know, it will.Look we're all gonna die.All of our patients are going to die eventually.
If it's for the right reasons, I don't find it all that depressing and I don't know if it is a point worth bringing up.If they are young vets out there who still struggle with it, who find it hard thing to deal with?Is it are you at peace with it?Both of you?I think?
Yeah, I think it depends on a lot of things.I think.It depends on the cause of why you're euthanizing something and how heavily become invested with.People and the patient.I give you even working on a case for days and days and you're like, so emotionally involved with those people as well.
They're these mazes that I find really hard because you just got it for them as well.You know, I think we have these patients and we have such high hopes for them and we're really, you know, trying to do everything you can to save them.And so when you do lose one, its it can be emotionally hard.I do also accept the death is part of life and you know, we do our best and sometimes that's just that's it's not enough and that's true for people.
I'm trying Thomas right so I think you do have to make peace with that as well and learn how to accept it and learn how to move on from it, learn from it but move on from us you know because I think of you if you're constantly replaying it in your mind, I think that's still very disruptive and then there's you to make these are utilized older patients that have multiple terminal, chronic issues and their suffering and for me I totally accept that.
I think that it's something that actually is quite important.That we can offer our patients to give them a peaceful passing.I think, if you can end suffering after animals had a beautiful life with loving people, then I truly do think that's the gift at the end.
And then I guess there's the other euthanasia is where, you know, animals that you don't want to euthanize.Like, in terms of people don't have enough money to treat their pets and, you know, that can be got wrenching.So, I don't know if I got ever probably be a piece.
Find find it hard, I think he do again, have to learn how to accept is writen Fahrenheit.Except first, you know, you know, sometimes people are making decisions between, you know feeding their kids and treating their passions and and that's like it's not, not often a child, you know, it's not a choice that they want to be making.
So I guess you have to accept it in that round but you know, they can they can be hard ones there so yeah, I do think it's a bit of a journey coming to accept and find your path through it.And I definitely do think it's something that's hard for younger vets, you know.Mmm.
But I agree with what you're saying.Like in an emergency euthanasia rates, like on average is somewhere between 15 to 20% of the patients.We see depends possible as with Dominion.The hospital we work in and depending on socio-economic area.Yeah.And there are shifts.
I think I was the record I've done in one.Shift was eight euthanasia.Someone should run?Yeah, yeah, I just felt like dr.Death And it's really taking me a while to get used to the whole idea of euthanasia.And and it's part of my role as part of my job.It's part of how, why don't you beaches Society contribute to pets and kind of have a process by which I kind of go through where it's like, I like a formula which I, which sort of settles nicely with me, regardless of the euthanasia, whether or not, it's a healthy, pet that number Healthy Pet, but like a pet with mild moderate Illness, but I don't know, Lex, euthanasia or I really sick old one, it's kind of really just acknowledging the pet for what they've contributed to the world and and then being there and kind of just being like in thanking them and so kind of like thank you for being there and your you contributed.
And that really helps me because in the process of euthanasia in my head, I thank them and and and it's a part of my role as is that act of service?So I do struggle.One of the things I struggle with the most actually is euthanizing pest, wildlife.
He's he's like the beauty of the rabbit in Australia Queensland, rabbits welfare.Or when you go to like our hairs or whatever, they come Easter Bunny and then you get and then know what to do, and I have to do it and it kills me, but 10 seconds, 10, 20 seconds later and finally move on, it's just hurts of the time, but then if the night to service, it's a comfort thing, it's a I think, when I said the, the wildlife thing I don't see that it will bother me because I still, I still feel like, well, I'm there, I'm cutting short suffering by doing that.
If I wasn't there during that nasty business, it would be out there dying slowly in the bush, or yeah, the same in my hand slowly or something like, yeah, so, it's I've said it to bits before the reality.Is none of us are going to be euthanized unless things change very quickly.
All of us are going to go through some shit and eventually it's going to end.So if we could provide comfort and make it shorter and even if it is the ones that you could have potentially saved well, if you weren't there as a veterinarian and the owner couldn't come for you, come to you to help out that animal would suffer and die in paint at home.
So Whatever the reason it's, it's a, it's still a kindness.It took me a while now and I don't want my very first either euthanize.I remember really well as a student broken numerous, no money.And I think I had to go cry out the back.Euthanized had to excuse myself from the hospital and go outside.
I need to go to the toilet, and they make a crime to it's a little bit, which is I love now, but it's not it, it's a big deal.Yeah, it's a yeah.But yeah, that's it is immediately another Other like time that I find you, things are really hard, which shelters like when I go home.
I remember having to go to a pound, a few times and euthanize the animals there that was that was awful like that, you know?I just that was probably the worst because they're healthy, you know, they're just, you know, there's something wrong with them.And, you know, that's not right.
Yeah.It's it is a tricky part of our job, right?Because yeah, it's got a good side to us.Boy.The happy story of Wednesday.No, but this is the stuff that people want to hear to write.Well, the funny thing is the most thanks I received in my career and I don't think I'm the only one emergency vet who says they're not, it's actually in so many of euthanasia.
Is that you to write?Because?Maybe because we are good at it as emergency vets because we do a lot and we can cancel people through it.I do think it counts for a lot and it kind of like it's a massive, massive thing in that person's life and they're taking Their past to somebody to euthanize them and I think being kind and been patient and help guiding people through it.
You know I receive more.Thanks for that that I have any other heroics that I've ever, you know, done and what a privilege to be trusted with it.Actually, I think this line came from somebody on the podcast where I said, what Because I haven't struggled when you do, a good euthanasia is a good because, you know, people are thankful and when they say thank you, what do you say back?
The the reflex is to say, it's a pleasure, what's not a pleasure, and I think it was one of our guests.You said, and I use that.Now, I say all I say, is thank you for trusting us to help you through this.All right, on that, happy note, that start wrapping up, dude.
Listen to podcasts Laura but casts, Laura.I listen to some, not not that, I'm not an avid podcast listener.I'm honest, I believe I've just wasted two hours.Interviewing somebody who doesn't, even I Could Have Lied.
But then you probably would have put your favorite was worried that I'm gonna So Lord, I used to teaching students, we get all your students have ever taught and they all starting in the in first year at in veterinary science as young weights and they you have a couple of minutes to give them one little bit of advice for the veteran e careers.
What is your one word of advice?I think the most important thing is a probably like talked about it already, it's just not to lose your identity to the profession, you know, to see it as your profession, and it's can still be your passion and your love and can still be realizing your dream.
But not to completely Lose Yourself to it, to maintain yourself outside a little bit to maintain your relationships outside of it.To not allow it to completely consume your personal life because I think that is the biggest thing for me.I think that's one of the biggest things.
Contrary to very nice and people becoming fatigued with the profession and the work and becoming disillusioned.So, I think for me, that's probably the biggest thing that I would show it off with a piece of advice, and definitely everything has to be up there.
My top five things as well.Awesome, Nona, thank you so much.You've been an absolute Campion.Thank you, thank you.Thank you so much fun, hopefully we'll catch up.

Dr Lorna O'Dowd