Dec. 24, 2020

#37: Big goals, small steps. With Dr Mark Kelman.

#37: Big goals, small steps. With Dr Mark Kelman.
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Season 1

Here’s the link to our brand new clinical continuing education podcasts: https://vvn.supercast.tech. Subscribe before the end of January 2021 to lock in your subscription at a 30% discounted early bird rate. Now - our guest:  Dr Mark Kelman is a man on a mission. He’s a veterinarian, independent scientific researcher, social philanthropist and investor who has had a wildly varying career. From charity work to private practice to working in pharmaceuticals, a quick PhD, and now as a researcher and co-founder, director and CEO of his own charity. Paws for a Purpose is a social enterprise charity for people in need and their pets. The charity raises funds and awareness for various issues including Canine Parvovirus. Currently, he is leading a research-and-intervention project with the goal of eradicating Parvo. Yes, we said eradicate! Mark is also a board director of Pets In The Park – a charity helping the homeless to care for their pets.  Our conversation with Mark meanders all over the veterinary profession. He tackles some of the biggest issues that we face as vets, like trying to find a balance between our duty of care with our need to earn a decent income, and career diversification as a key for career longevity. Mark shares his journey with us and tells us why he still loves working as a vet, and much much more. Ultimately it’s a hopeful conversation about taking action, big dreams, and the small steps that get you to those dreams.  Go to https://thevetvault.com/podcasts/ for the show notes, to get your hands on the answers to ‘the one question’ from our first 20 guests, and to check out our guests’ favourite books, podcasts and everything else we talk about in the show. We love to hear from you. If you have a question for us or you’d like to give us some feedback please leave us a voice message by going to our episode page on the anchor app (https://anchor.fm) and hitting the record button, via email at thevetvaultpodcast@gmail.com, or just catch up with us on Instagram. (https://www.instagram.com/thevetvault/)  And if you like what you heard please share the love by clicking on the share button wherever you’re listening to this and sending it to someone who you know will enjoy listening to this.

You're talking about how that's get angry at the fact that people can't afford to pay, which I agree.I felt that when I was in new grade, I think the reality is that it's stress.The reason why we're reacting the way we are, is because we're all stressed.And it's not actually that we necessarily blaming the person, but we can start to believe that it's because we're reacting.
Because, you know, like you said, it's this injury that we're taking the psychological injury to having to try to process this thing.And to be the one who may need to put the animal to sleep.When it's you don't believe in it and you believe it shouldn't happen.And there's That we all need to work together to fix, which I think is what inspires people like me.
Maybe to go and start Charities and do the things that we do because not everyone's in a fortunate position, that they can do what I do.But those of us who can will do it as a way to try and help the whole profession, everybody else.Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.This is Gerardo Poli.And this, sorry.
I'm Gerardo Pollard, I'm you became strap, and this is The Vape vault.Before we start today's episode, I wanted to give a quick shout-out to our very first two subscribers to the vet World clinical podcast series, Shane McCarthy, and Cody creelman if you are listening, you guys are legends.
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My bad dr.Mark Coleman is a veterinarian independent, scientific researcher social philanthropist and investor.He's had a wildly varying career from working as a graduate at rspca and then move to General.
Actors then as a technical services manager for companion, animals adver back Animal Health.Then as an independent scientific, researcher and consultant or wild running his own property investing company and writing a book on property, investing Wild verbeck Mark, created the disease, Watchdog Australia's national pet disease surveillance system that operated from 2010 to 2017, which has collected considerable data.
And is a resulted in a number of peer-reviewed scientific Many of which Mark has co-authored in 2016.Mark started a PhD with University of Sydney on Canine parvovirus, epidemiology and currently, he's leading a research and intervention project with the goal and get this for a big goal of eradicating power.
He's also the co-founder and director of pause for a purpose, which is a social Enterprise charity, that provides benevolent support for people with pets in need of help the charity raises funds, and awareness for various issues, including canine parvovirus.Iris marks also a board director of the charity called pits in the park, which helps to provide care for pets of homeless.
People, a conversation with Mark me and is all over the vision profession.It tackles some of the big issues that we face like trying to find a balance between our responsibility for the care of animals of owners who are, who are unable to afford Veterinary Care, without need to earn a decent income career diversification as a key for career longevity, and why he still loves working as if It ultimately, it's a hopeful In about taking action Big Dreams and the small steps that get you to those dreams.
Please enjoy dr.Mark Gelman.Elevate Walter said, welcome to a long-awaited next episode of the vet World podcast.We are thrilled to have with us, dr.Mark, Kalman Mark, welcome to the podcast.Hello, Gerardo.Hello birthday, boy.
Oh dude.Hey gone.Good, thank you, Mark.I've been meaning to ask you this and I'll explain in a second and I hope it's not bad news house.The kitchen.Yeah.Sorry, it is bad news.News and I yeah had been looking after keeping she didn't make it, Mom's doing really well, but yeah.
Unfortunately as we know, you can't save them all.So yeah, so Mark I caught up with Mike the other day and Mark took a mum cats and a kitten from work to try to nurse it better but it had under cephalus.Am I right?
Hmm.Yeah, she also had radio aplasia.She had a few things going on but she was a little fighter and had so much personality.And yeah it wasn't meant to be, we literally did everything and everything wasn't enough.So yeah, it is surprising how little brain animals can live with.
I remember was Chihuahua came in that the owner said, every time we tap this thing and little bit spoiled it has a seizure.It was tappin, that spontoon L and we put the ultrasound probe and ultrasounded, it's through the Fontanel into it's like cranium.
And there was like, only the something about my gosh, I couldn't even explain.It was like, maybe a fifth of filled of the fifth of the space of what was normally supposed to be there.It's just as Tiny Little Acorn and all this black sea.And I was just like, I can't believe this dogs alive, but it actually, it was a pretty intelligent version of a Chihuahua.
Well, his kidney was the same had, probably maybe five or ten percent was brain tissue and the rest was just floored.Acted like a normal kid and bit wobbly, you know, with, like, a mom and run around and do all those kids and things, and, yeah, but obviously wasn't enough.So I want to take that straight into one of your activities, Mark.
Clearly, clearly you UK is obviously a deeply.You're gonna say, trying to do the impossible, is that as well.But where did you give you?I just do it immediately.Anybody who takes takes on responsibility like that.
Italy has a deep passion for what we do is we train Aryans and one of the things you do is the pets in the park and yes, this is a charity thing to tell us a bit more about that.I know you were busy with that all of last week.Yeah.Well, that's true.Yeah, it's always on the weekend.We had directors meetings.So yeah, I mean, I think a lot of X now be about pets in the park.
It's been going for, I think close to 10 years now, but essentially it's a charity that helps homeless people.People experiencing homelessness to look after their pets and so we've grown considerably over Time and I sort of I join just after it was sort of launched in Sydney.
Initially it was to pop up clinics or running one in Parramatta and one in darlinghurst near Kings Cross.Anyone knows Sydney, and I mean, there's a lot of need everywhere across Australia, but it's the park.We now have operations in Brisbane Gold Coast.
I'm going to miss some because there's so many caboolture act to in tazzy.Now we just had another one in case anyone in Hobart, another one in launch systems to start.What'd I missed Perth.There's more, it's crazy, it's which is great.
And the thing is is just so much need and yeah obviously a lot of work from everyone it's completely volunteer driven.We have one CEO who gets paid and everybody else is a volunteer and CEO does a crazy, amazing job and so do all the volunteers and all directors and everyone.So just everyone working together, just to try and help people who are doing it tough.
So, yeah.So what does it practically look like?Do you do pull up somewhere?You got a building its Deuce, is it an occasional thing?Where you go?Okay, we bring us your sick pets.And we'll see what we can do or what, how does it practically?Yeah, so, I mean, the name pets in the park, kind of gives you a bit of a hint.
I'm a lot of the times literally held in the park.Usually, we try to find a location where there's also I can building as well, particularly for cats, but certainly in some areas they have tents because there's no actual facilities are available.We obviously work closely with local Council and a lot of other groups.
We get referrals from service providers like the Red Cross, who help us verify that people need the services.They will give us a letter to say that people are experiencing homelessness since they qualify for what we do and and literally we have tables and people bring their dogs and cats and sometimes rats ferrets.
I think I've even seen birds, anything that would get the normal Vet Clinic.People will come a long way just to get some support and most of the time it's preventative.It's but we certainly, we do the full Gambit of consoles and things as well.So yeah, just everything we do is free and it's just a way of helping people who would literally spend the last dollar they have on their pet by giving them the service they can.
Hopefully look after themselves and spend their money on food was, honestly, these people love their pets so much, and they would spend all their money on just giving the pet to the best food that they have, and they go without food.So, we're just trying to help them out by helping out with their pets.I didn't really.We realize until maybe I saw a brochure about bets and apart several several years ago, but didn't realize about the importance that these pet played with regards to the safety and mental health of homeless, people of everyone.
I mean, we know how important our pets are for us in this, how attached?We are to them, and just that Bond and having someone to talk to who listens to you, sometimes bosses you around.But at the same time, just that connection and yeah.People experiencing homelessness often.
They find it harder to talk to people because they know that most people will judge them.Which obviously, once you learn that, nice people who are experiencing homelessness, they normal people often have very interesting lives.Just happen to have a couple of things go wrong as to where they are.But yeah, that bond with a pet is so important.
And, you know, people who are in these circumstances, you know, may be vulnerable to drugs and alcohol and those kind of things just because they use this kind of stuff to help them cope with A situation that they're in.But the number of people who say to us, the reason why they won't do drugs and alcohol as because they have to look after their pet.
It's just, it's crazy.And it's just so important, and society.As a rule, kind of, says that people who don't have money, shouldn't have pets.As the other way around, everyone needs to have a pet and just about funny help everybody out.That's something that's a little bug.We're of mine, and it's a thorny issue for sure.
We jumping straight into the, to the, to the thorny issues, and on this one with this, but you often hear that.You know, I've heard it invaded and it's literally weights or support staff saying.Well, people can afford to give the business shouldn't have been.And and there were times when I wanted to agree with that, you have it and it's you faced with the situation now is this, you wanted to help it, you want to help you study to be red because you want to help but this person comes in and they they don't have money.
And then there's often a an anger towards them from the witness stuff.And I've said, and felt that because now I'm been put in a situation.That's okay.I don't want to not help but I also can't not charge and it makes it very difficult, but that thing where people say, if you can't afford to have a bit, don't have one.
It doesn't sit right with me.So I get the more.I see exactly what you say.You see how much animals mean to people.I on our trip across Australia recently, we ended up a very last breath because we couldn't find any way to stay.
And we had to end up in a caravan Park, but not beautiful.Campsite end up in the bush somewhere.It was actually a urban Campsite and it turned out that probably about 80% of the sites were permanent residents or semi permanent resident.So people camping or captivating because they because homeless otherwise which is in itself, quite eye-opening quite confronting was in my head Australia's first world country.
You know, we don't have property in Australia but the guy camping next to us, probably in his 60s, nice guy, Pleasant guy.But you could see, he was really down on his luck.He's whole literally right 10:00 11:00 in the morning.It sit there with the drinking, which is tragic, but he A dog with and and even from a distance, you could see that dog is, is that, it's based in my and I said they watching it going what a lovely relationship.
But then I pictured this situation, what happens?It's 2:00 in the morning, he comes in, he's dogs, got a five, hmm, it's like ours, it's hard as a red, it is very, very hard because you, you can identify them.The meaning of that relationship with what do you do.And I don't know what the solution is, because that I think that's where a lot of our as veterinarians, where our moral than ice road ahead for the other in me.
Injury doing something that's against your deepest values to say.Well, I can't help your you that bit.You were going to actually after using it.Hmm.Completely agree.And it's the right thing to do.From a business perspective.We know that we can't do charity stuff and we can't those it's not our fault that is not our problem.
So you can't take it on board emotionally, but still deep inside it really hurts.It really doesn't.And I don't know if you got any thoughts on that.Yeah, it's funny when I used to erection Pharmaceuticals for a few years and I used to get told All the time, we're not a charity, but that's the thing.
You just want to help and I think in the first challenge is vets, need to get paid.Everyone needs to own a living.We happen to live in a capitalist world.And that's I think I have this sort of think about this sort of stuff quite a bit.And it's interesting because most of the other professions you can literally charge whatever you need to and people will pay.
And obviously if your doctor everyone pays Is Texas Australia's Health Systems, really good and so we're fortunate that most people thinking most of them in this country.Yeah, that's right in this country.Absolutely, but that is an area that doesn't fit anywhere in that the, the bond that we have with our pets, and just the fact that they are literally part of the family, is so important to everyone, but at the same time, you know, apart from pet insurance which can be a bit expensive and most people, you know, it's still in Australia.
Don't uptake pet insurance.But apart from that, there is no way before.Dang it, unless you save the money or at least to go into debt, if you don't have, you know, available cash.And so he puts everyone in a difficult situation and you're talking about how that's get angry at the fact that people kind of food to pay, which I agree.
I felt that when I was a new grade and I think the reality is that it's stress, the reason why we're reacting the way we are, is because we're all stressed.And it's not actually that we necessarily blaming the person, but we can start to believe that it's because we're reacting, because, you know, like you said, it says injury that we're taking the Injury to having to try to process this thing and to be the one who may need to put the animal to sleep.
When it's you don't believe in it and you believe it shouldn't happen and it's something that we all need to work together to fix, which I think is what inspires people like me.Maybe to go and start Charities and do the things that we do because not everyone's in a fortunate position, that they can do what I do.But those of us who can will do it as a way to try and help the whole profession everybody else.
So do you, you go to you lead an emergency team who ate imagined Same as a, my place will be faced with a situation all the time.How do you coach them?How you speaker?But um, there's a couple things that both of you guys said the rich, I'm just trying to get my thoughts together, but first of all, it's often the situation.
But not necessarily the person that people are angry at.They will lash out saying, why shouldn't, why haven't they don't have any money than a?But then, they would that they would project that onto the person as a friend and make some story up in their head about why they're lazy and why they do not get a job or something like that.
But then also, Mentally.It's a situation you need to work through because when you start personalizing the problem and then focusing in on someone then you can't it's really hard then to move forward and develop Solutions if you if you really are kind of focusing on the person but not the issue.
So and a lot of vets are come through because in emergency quite often, you won the the fees are higher than, then, whatever they've experienced before.Because of, you know, the costs of running.An emergency nighttime Hospital weekend hospital but also it's just this kind of like, unexpectedness unexpectedness of the disease to occur the dog in here by card dogged, have a pie or something, and the extra pressure that puts on the family who owns a pet.
But then, that is, then projected upon the veterinarian.It's kind of like, really just trying to separate it out and quite often I talk to the vets and say, hey, look, you know, just keep going back to the, to the problem.Try and work out a problem with supposed to You're the problem and don't take it personally because of that it's, you know, it's emotion and it's how it's coming out.
We're lucky in a way because we have, we work closely with Animal Welfare League and they are a charity.They get you know, donations and they are able to offer service Veterinary Services enough for free but they're able to offer develop plans or treatment plans or something but they work really hard with the resources they have to offer the care.
That pets require and I really acknowledge them for that and I'm and I'm assuming that they would be clinics like this around the place but not all the way around the world but I know that some clinics have things like they have like the the owner sets aside you know ten twenty thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars and it spread across the number of vets or whatever.
You might have three thousand dollars each for a year and then they're your that's.That's the case is that you use that kitty for cases.That were you honestly feel that you can make a difference and make an impact?In this pit with owners who are in financial constraints.So, takes away the bit of that that pressure to where they can't do anything to give them some options.
But yeah, it's a difficult situation and I'm and I'm not it's multifactorial and and it's dependent on on circumstances and you know, that.And also sometimes you get burned, you get burned by the people who, who do know how to Roar Ask them know how to play you and and they're the ones where you which really just make it hard for the people who really are struggling.
But the people who really do need help.And I like, what Mike was saying before that with the Red Cross come and go.Hey, look this this, this, this just this person is truly homeless and is need of help.Like like having some kind of certification, I know certification.
But some kind of like a way of really knowing that, you know, these guys honestly do need help us.Is to, you know, they're saving for a tattoo or something human.I mean the good news is a very few people sort of brought the system.There's always going to be the occasional one and the way I look at it is that what we're doing is an act of giving, so you just need to give it, let it go.
And if somebody rip you off, well, that's their thing to deal with.You know, it's something that you just, you can't take it on board because if you start to think about that, you never going to do anything charitable.The world's, a terrible Place, how there was a lot of terrible things you just got to focus on the good.And try to do that.
And I was going to say, I mean, it's not just Red Cross has plenty of groups Wayside Chapel.There's so many I can't name them all who give referrals depends on the park, but there's a lot of Charities out there who are willing to partner I guess with a vet clinics as well probably, but certainly with organizations, like facing the park to help people, you know, to help the sort of service.
And one thing worth mentioning, there's another charity which is called the mode change the name but I think it's called the pet emergency crisis fund.They've been operating in Victoria for some time.Pretty sure I was talking to them recently and they're looking to cooperate further abroad across Australia as well and they help out in this exact circumstance you talking about Gerardo.
That when people obviously RIT struggling for money and something a crisis, happens to their patent, you to get some money, they're available to help out.So there's Charities out there.The problem is a lot of people just can't find them in time, but the more we know about it, the more these things keep growing, I think it'll make it easier for everyone in the profession, as well.
Hmm, pet, emergency.Crisis fun, was it?Yeah, I like that.Gerardo that and I've heard this before I've clinics, you have their own little fund.Hmm.Think that's a that's a good because as you say, Mark often accessing some of these, so again, running an emergency clinic, we'd offered initiate treatment at 2:00 in the morning because you're not going to speak to anybody anyway, it's in the morning on the trust that we're going to find something and then I'll find it falls flat and access funds and they maybe ever and then you stuck with it.
You like we've just paid for it.And actually having your own fund where you have discretion to go.Yes or no.It's a, no, I have we s, we have the money to deal with this, but the secret then is the practice has to be profitable enough.It has the you have to be able to from all your other clients.
So there is clean is not to be a charity clinic or constantly take a little percentage of here or try and help people.You have to be clearly differentiate between.Okay, this is normal business.These ones were going to charge.Well, I'm going to, I'm going to charge well, so that we can earn well, so that I can pay my cell.
Self and have some left to say, well, I can help, hmm.Any thoughts their work?I see you shaking your head and that's the challenge I Grady.I mean, it sort of leads to another question that obviously, in the scheme of things, the vet profession is very badly paid, and one of the issues I think we have is as vets.
We do struggle to help in these kind of cases because of the cash flow coming through the clinic and all the overheads and all the rest of it.And you know, it's because people can't afford To pay more for their pets that sort of setting.This is Limitless, what we perceive that we should be charging.
So I mean I don't think there's an easy fix, but I think at the end of the day, this is going to change.I mean, we can't there's no vets out there because everyone just leaves the practice after a few years.And one of the main reasons for that that I've read and some studies is due to the, you know, to the issue around pay.
So it's yeah it's an issue that we have and an issue does not going away and is only getting worse.So it's At least something.I know that there are people looking into it and there's studies being done and people talking about it.But it's something that we really need to address otherwise there's going to be a profession in the next 10 years.
Is there any work?I know the actual just talking to a colleague of mine just today and she listens to the podcast.So she would know I'm talking about her but about like a pet Medicare and, you know, like to know like, if there's so much studies, which in research, which demonstrates the the positive impact of pets on human health, And stress and well-being is there, you know, is there any discussions of movement there in with regards to add some kind of subsidized or part?
I don't know, you know, Medicare for pets or something.Well, I think there should be, I mean at the end of the day, the government does, what the people tell the government to do and if there's enough power owners that think that's a good idea, then this should be the next thing.But you know, ultimately, I think we're all responsible for governments.
We elect because in Australia, at least we're mostly A democracy.So occasionally I think we make stupid election decisions for most of the time it is done fairly.So yeah, I think it's a big issue and the less people become aware of it.Nothing's going to change but certainly it's that's one way that it could happen.
And, you know, pets are becoming more and more, you know, people in terms of, they are members of the family, you know, most families are fortunate to have pets.And as a result, maybe this is something that can change into the future.Like, it's an interesting world, we live in, so I think anything's possible that moment of you.
Gerardo, you haven't Mark, if you worked in the UK United Kingdom.I haven't.No.So there they have the so of British listeners will probably be sitting again.We've got the solution.They they have a, the pdsa.Again, it's quite a few rescues there and it's a very bit Centric very animal, loving community.
So, it's a feel like it's, I don't know that animals are more valued there, but but certainly there's there's a lot more support.But I mean, the pdsa, the people's dispensary for sick animals, they have hospitals all throughout the country, that is and it's means test it.So if your own income support or something like that, you you can have access to.
The service is not free, but ridiculously cheaper than normal and they did.My wife did a Locum for them and they do everything just down at work.And then also in rural areas where there's not access to a hospital, they actually so we worked early in the going to Clinic there and people who qualify for pdsa support.
Is able to evade register with us as a clinic and we would get a monthly fee from the PSA to provide care to those people.But basic gear, at least I know sort of the downfall was.There was no very clear guidelines of what is expected from you.So I did you go and do the major orthopedic surgery, or does it mean just the basics?
But at least it was there.So you get x amount of money per month and when they came in treat them without any any, what?I think it was heavily discounted, so that's the system.But again, that's a, that's a privately-funded, it's not a government thing.That's just a mess.Charity.That's really well around and what?
Well and it's very old man, it's a well-established charity.Yeah, I definitely think something like, this is needed, I guess everywhere in the world.And, you know, Australia is not aligned as many countries that have the same issues.In fact, everyone is in the same situation globally from what I've read.But I think I know that there's areas that are trying to start these.
I know that I've got a colleague over in Perth, he's been trying to get one of these clinics going for some time and there's a lot of barriers that make it difficult here in Australia to It's such a vet clinic happening, but we are going to say, there was a, one of the interesting things is that governments are becoming more aware.
Like, I know the Victorian government has an animal welfare fund which is part of their funding.So they have a group where they actually have Government funding, which goes towards, you know, these sorts of topics.And every year, they actually have grants for people wishing to set up funds, to help veterinary clinics, do the sort of activity.
So if something is becoming more of I think obviously the funding is pretty Limited in the moment.I think they're struggling to get people to do it given how much they're giving in the ground.There's a bit of a disconnect between what's money is available and the cost to do it but at the same time people are waking up to it.
So it's definitely like this.I know from my personal experience is definitely a need and you know, the other charity that I have, we get inquiries all the time for people saying I can't afford medical bills.What we do and we direct people to the Charities available when we know of them.But there's huge gaps and definitely.
I think that we need to address further, it's a good question.It's it's really hard one to articulate, but you know, you let's say, you have your someone right and you have a mission, you have a purpose that you find a vision that you have, how do you and it's to set up a charity, like this, right?
If you, if, if you were to give this person some advice on setting up something like a like a Medicare for Australian pets or something.You're like, what?Like right at the star.Like what would be some kind of I don't know.Some key pieces of advice because I've started showed before he was freaking hard.
Yeah, I think that's my main piece of advice that it's going to take a whole lot more time than what your sink and I mean, if you're passionate about that, you'll make it happen.That's the truth.But I mean, the other interesting thing is, while it takes a lot longer than what you think, you'll also get a whole lot more help than what you imagine.
My kids might have experienced the same with yours.It's crazy how you're looking for, some particular thing, you know, You have a need for the charity, you're doing a project, and there's a gap, and you somehow, can we ever find this and the right person?Just appears at the right time.And it's crazy, just how it happens.
And I think some things are meant to be.And I think starting Charities is one of them.And yeah, so the universe or whatever you want to call, it will help you.And yeah, it's just if there's something and this is a philosophy, not just for starting Charities, but for anything, if there's something you feel like you really, you know, you really need to do their allergies.
Is no one's going to do it.If you don't do it, and X is going to pass.And I think sometimes and starting a charity, is an example where you sort of, you see that there's this Gap, anything like can do that.The reality is you just got to get in there and get it started and it'll happen and will be a crazy journey and you'll learn lots.
But yeah, it's I don't think there's any trick to it.Like, I've been involved with a couple of Charities over the years.In fact, my first ever job was working the rspca in Sydney, which is amazing as a new grad.And it's funny when I started, Are I thought that you would be my one charity that I do.This one thing and after that I could just impact us never have to worry about doing charity work again.
And instead, it's been the other way around.Everything I've been doing, has been some charity focused, just because I think sometimes it's just the way that things turned out so yeah, absolutely.If it's something that you feel like you should do, you absolutely should just get in there and there's also people not only people that will give you the actual help but it's people who happy to give you advice.
We've been there before and I'm sure you'd rather with one of them and certainly I'm available.Anyone has any questions about this kind of stuff?You know, I'm easy to find.So, yeah, there's so many people out there who just want to give you a hand.You got to do the work, but at the same time, there's plenty of guidance available.
They would you say that was really important and just and it would probably be my first piece of advice.Now, that you said, that would be like there.Yeah, you put it out there, the universe conspires to make it happen, right?Like the quote, you were saying, you just got to be loud and say it to as many people as possible to project it and then somehow like if you're in, He has to get energized enough then people will start to follow, but you need to find just one person who believes in you and then obviously under two and three and then so forth.
But only if you like, I want to make this happen but never going to tell anyone.It's nothing to ever going to happen.Yep though.Also YouTube had Charities and and and what you're doing now is, what is he doing now?So, I mean, I've just finished a PhD on Canine parvovirus.
So canine parvovirus epidemiology, I don't know.Know how many people watching this, you know, me but I've sort of been doing this for a bit and I think people are following my journey there.But yeah, so I started this particular thing, I think when I was at the rspca is when I saw my first parvo cases.
And that's so really fired me up because I saw her, literally these puppies dying from parvo and every year, we'd see these same puppies coming in, you know, dying, again, are from the same situation.It's not vaccinated.I just thought Is crazy.This just keeps happening and I like to the rspca for four years.
And after four years, I needed a break just from that environment.I talked about the rspca is being very bipolar.You have the high Highs but you have your lows as well.And as much as I loved working there, it was a good break for me to step away from just being a shelter bet.
Among the other vet work that I was doing a general practice and inspector and all the other things.But while I was there at the IRS, I like I said, it's sort of cemented for me.This thing that I really wanted to try and stop parvo or at least contribute to all the work that's being done to stop part of around the world and has been since parvo, came into existence back in the, you know, late 1970s early 1980s.
And so, after a few different two bits and pieces along my career, I sort of, like I said, I worked in Pharmaceuticals after working, in general, practice for six years and then I left Pharmaceuticals and sort of decided to take on this project to try and see what I could do to.
Of piece together the puzzle to try and stop parvo.And the first part was a lot of research.I need to do just in Australia in epidemiology, which was PhD and there's a whole lot more research.So I still need to do because I couldn't quite finish everything in for youth bit of a big topic but at the same time I also started a charity at the same time which is my other charity which is pause for a purpose and that Charities sort of goal is to help people who are in need with their pets.
So it's a bit of a more of an umbrella sort of goal then appendix.The park which is specifically people experiencing homelessness, but having said that the first project for a pause for a purpose is a project to try and help stop parlor across Australia.So that charity runs pop-up vaccination clinics and discounted vaccinations projects through veterinary clinics.
I'm in a range of other things including a another disease surveillance system which I've started.So I worked in Veterinary Pharmaceuticals.I created disease Watchdog which was a national surveillance system that operated for companion animals from Tend to 2017.
Well, if Thomas articles that project and eventually they stopped, it wasn't being resource without me to drive it.So there was a 50/50 as to whether they're going to keep it going and obviously 50% that's just said, no, look, it's probably easier.Just to let this go because it wasn't people weren't putting the cases through needed to have the drive that I was putting behind it.
But open the opportunity to create a new Pablo surveillance system.And that's why I've been working on amongst all the other charity work and everything else.And that's what, hopefully launch next year.And we're planning to launch it this year and all these bold plans.I think many people, most people across the world did and everything kind of got put on, hold because it covid.
But yeah.So between my parlor research, the ongoing research the disease surveillance, which is called parvo alert, which is the new system and then we've got more work on the vaccination programs which were still working on as well.So, all of that kind of keeps me busy in a couple of days in clinical practice, just because, you know what, good would a spare time just like you.
He did time.I complain.Yeah.Welcome.I want to go back to your time in the rspca.So just to get the timeline right, there was your first job was that out of uni straight into the rspca.
Yeah, that's right.And, and that's where your passion for getting rid of Pablo was born.I said, is that?Yeah, I saw a few parvo cases.I worked as a student over.I come from Perth.Yes, I went through Murdoch uni and I saw a few Aces when I actually worked in a vet clinic, you know, as a, as a grad was, as an undergrad, as a student.
But it was really at the rspca where I sort of really got to meet parvo, you know, full-on just see how terrible it was.What was it a particular case?Or a particular day or something?That because a lot of it, see a lot of Parvo and we go yet, it's terrible.But I'm you go to bed and you get up and you do it again.
I'm interested in what was cracked and you that when enough's enough I'm going to do something about yeah.So there was one day where there was a family came in mum and her two little kids a little girl and a little boy and they had two puppies that had only had for a couple of weeks and both puppies had parvo, one of them was literally going to die probably within minutes or hours.
And the other one wasn't far behind him and saying to the little kids that the puppies weren't going to make it.That was just one of those things that you never forget.And I I said to myself shortly after that, this is a thing that needs to change.It's not fair that this people have to go through this, you know, obviously the puppy, the suffering, the puffy puppies, bad enough, but also just the family, it shouldn't happen and that was the thing.
I remember, I was at a train station, I think might have been a few weeks later and I, literally, burst into tears, no reason, just because of everything that was going on.I thought, like, something's got to change and that was it and it's everything sort of happened after that.It was no that see and You're on the right Journey.
You happy that.That seminal moment was the was the right moment of put you on that, on the right part.Yeah, I've got more things to do as well but definitely pavo's.I think that, you know, we need to fix and the reality is the vaccines work so well and I'm very fortunate as a vet that obviously I've seen Pablo at the coalface working the rspca, but I've also seen the other side working Pharmaceuticals.
I was fortunate enough to actually end up taking on a vaccine.Folio, if one of the companies and, you know, just sort of seeing how great the vaccines work and obviously we still get failures, nothing's 100% but the efficacy way better than what the covid vaccine efficacy is going to be 50, vaccines Second To None.
They're you know they're amazing and all the live vaccines anyway.And so the reality is that the vaccine is not the issue.The issue is that we're not vaccinating, the right puppies at the right place at the right time and a lot of the research that I've done for the PHD has I said the main reason for that socio-economic, I mean, hence that something that we can fix because that's just a money problem.
And, you know, money and accessibility and I mean the irony is that sometimes the social stuff is harder to fix, but at the end of the day, something that we can fix.We just got to find out how to that's what it's all about.Is just piloting, these programs, getting all of the infrastructure and technology in order and literally, once you find what works, we just scaling it.
And you know, one of my goals is to see if in 2025 we can have 90% reduction Option of Parvo cases across Australia and we see 20,000 cases of popular.Every year, that something my research is found with so much as twenty thousand cases of Parvo. 10,000 of them die every year in Australia, alone, and idea of global numbers or is that the same?
Hi.Yeah, I don't know.I've seen one paper sort of suggested, a million in the US, but there's nothing to back it up.It's at least multiple hundreds of thousands across the world, possibly higher.So it's a lot.Yeah.I don't know, it's such a Mmm.
Yeah, I wouldn't even know where to start.I love the fact that I actually you know, you're you're going through a systematic approach towards any.What you said, it's just you try or something, see the acre because he and then if it works scale it, you know, I was just thinking about, how would I knew it?I was just like, you know, go down this problem areas streets and just with a, with the cattle drenched gun, but like as vaccinated, guns and go bang, bang bang, you know?
And I can do every dog that I find, but, but it didn't, I think about it's like, but then sometimes it It's you get these, these clients come in and then and then they're like, I am I last dog, six months ago.'.So I thought I'd get another puppy and there's like, there's like a, like a Kim education issue just there that, you know like, like, you know, something should have happened, there were some kind of conversation.
We had to highlight the the risks, the risk of that.But yeah, it's complicated.This is the thing, it's complicated and until we get the disease out of the environment is going to keep happening but the first thing we can do is vaccinated puppies.That we know that are at risk and like your sake.Caching strategies is so important and we're not going to do it overnight.
But if we keep working on it, then we can get rid of it and like we do see like one of the hardest things that's funny.When I started the research project, you're going to all these things going.Yep, you know, I've got a plan, it's going to be easy.We're going to go in and parvo hid from me for about a year to start with, which was crazy, because, of course, it's a disease.
That is quite cyclical in terms of when it occurs.And we now know from some of the research that we've done in the last few years, that is not always happening at the Same time each year and we do think that there's weather factors one of the one of the things that were able to publish was that there's a recent rainfall within the last month or a dry period of four months are both significant risk factors for outbreaks of disease and that's the nature of it.
And so, you know, sad story, we've been running these vaccinations pilots in Rockhampton, which is one of the high risk areas Bible and Queensland, not the highest.But certainly a high one within Geographic proximity to where I live.Which is why we started there and we've been running some good programs and then obviously the end of well, the first time we ran these and then they had the bushfires and I've gotten away but we did small programs and we managed to avert this outbreak and hopefully we contributed to decrease in cases of certainly looked that way.
I've got enough stats to say that for sure but certainly anecdotally did seem to work following year.We did the same.It was the end of last year, you know, getting into beginning of this year and we'd be running this discounted back.The nation program.And then the plan was that we do the discounted vaccinations through.
The vet clinic is because it's hard to get volunteer.That's due to the popups.Just, you know, it's not enough vets in town must reality.And, like I said, accessibility and having that some rural areas as a big factor in some of these issues, as well, we had these program was working.We weren't getting quite as much intake because of the vouchers, which we knew would happen.
But the plan was that if an outbreak occurred, we obviously just scramble and it'll pop up, everything was set to do that and then covid hit.We couldn't run a community of vaccination program because of the risk-spreading covid and as a result they had one of the worst outbreaks of parvo in.I think it was six or ten years in that area, and we had everything set up to try and stop it, but that's just the nature.
Its cyclical doesn't always occur when it's supposed to that was February.Usually happens in December, but the storm, the, the water was late coming.We don't know, quite why it happens, but certainly both anecdotally and we've got some data to show.We've had one study.Like I said, they're showing that there's definitely a link.
It's another Area of research interest because I have a few theories as to why but hopefully with the next starter coming through, we can start to understand that part of the puzzle bit better as well, lucky in the pieces.That's so cool.So you were saying before like you you in rspca then you went and you did Pharmaceuticals and you were there for.
So how many years were you in Pharmaceuticals?Eight years and farmer?And then you transition back to practice, like, a lot of people like, you know, because I don't know, it's almost like going on, maternity leave me.Having children for a few years, then going back into practice.How did tip except his babies with chairs?
Exactly.How did you transition back into practice?Well, I gave birth to a PhD as well.Long.Long protracted paper, like a small third.So yeah, I mean, it's interesting.
When I left practice, I always loved practice and the reason I got out of practice, This was because I, like I said, I've been there for being in general practice for six years kind of thought looked, is this something I'm going to do forever or do you want to try something else and interesting with my sister-in-law at the time?
So my brother's wife who had some suggested, because she just started working part-time for one of the Pharma companies.And she said, hey, why don't you try working farmer.And this job just happened to come up, wasn't to farm where I lived.And I thought, you know what?I'm just going to go for a job interview.
Not going to get this job.I mean, it's just it's interview practice.No, it's worth doing and lo and behold I said, look like you.There's two jobs available.You just pick the one you want and I happened to choose.Well, I think in retrospect I went in as a tech services manager, which these days I don't think is going to happen.
Most of the time it's entry level positions that the farmer market is maturity bit since then.But I went straight into this really interesting position where I got trained.The sales staff work with vets Specialists work in marketing, literally do all this travel both Scientists rally and internationally.
This learn all this amazing stuff.And, you know, after a couple of years of doing tech only they said, look, we'd like you to learn some of the marketing stuff, which I've also learned and other things.I don't just do that.I do.But a property investing in a few other things on the side and so I guess because of the stuff that I learnt because of my keenness to do it, they said, look writing, you manage his product portfolios as well and eventually I gravitated to vaccines which was when I convince management to let me design this disease surveillance system.
If you guys, they said, no, the first couple of times, but eventually I managed to convince one of the managers and they said, look just give it a go, you make sure you do good out of this and I think went really well and we're very fortunate.I've got some good sales that year as well, which obviously is important for the company?
But yeah, so the whole time I was doing all of that, I missed being in practice and I used to joke, you know, I'd retire and go back to practice and their allergies that one of the reasons I decided to do a couple of days clinical work.Was because of covid I couldn't be traveling and my PhD was winding up and I was just getting a bit stir-crazy.
Sort of just literally being by myself in the house on the computer, you know everything was virtual.I was the rest of the world, kind of caught up to what I had to do because I was literally doing a remote PhD was with the University of Sydney I was and Sunshine Coast but it's different like you miss being around people and you miss the interaction and you missile being around the animals and it was just an opportunity and one of my old colleagues and James had some checking, a job is Chief it for one of the large Vet Clinic groups.
And to say, hey look, we looking for locums if you ever want to do it.And at the time, I was too busy with PhD, but I sort of said, look, give me a few more months to get things more into control and it just made sense.And yeah, it was an interesting thing to go back into practice after 14 years of not really being in practice, but some are very glad I did it.
It's certainly been a very enjoyable and scary and everything but definitely there right decision, it's funny how it clearly we study vague because we want to be vets.I had I had lunch with another vehicle yesterday who is out of clinical practice and as a very fulfilling and successful career in something else and we had a long chat about it.
I was asking what is your job look like?What do you enjoy about it?And then at the end of the conversation, it's just some days where I really miss practice, you can anything in fact, that in the back of my head I have decided today, you can see one day, it's going to burst out of it when he's got to go stuff A Time.Just go do it.They say where it keep my hands clean.
Yeah.Okay.That's what we were trained to do like 90%.What we learned was, you know, for practice really isn't.Yeah, I think the rabbit is I like talking, so it's easy to see if you like talking to clients.I think a lot of vets like surgery because you don't have to talk to people if you like talking to clients, it makes Consulting easy.
The only problem is they say they say, look, you got to keep wrap it up because you got the next one waiting for you.So he kind of said all day, it's going to ask something.About that.Oh, so your current clinical position you do a couple of days a week.Is that, right?
Yeah, so just two days I work for two different clinics just during one day for each of them and yeah, it's just this nice.It's sort of its full-on.I'm sure all the Vets listening to this know.But it's just so busy.And I hear this from everyone that clinics are just overrun at the moment and maybe partly because everyone's got more pets because of covid.
And I don't know whether all the animals from the rescues of moved into houses or something.It will.If the braid is, it's been pumping a Mac.So this unmet need but yeah, it's just, it's back-to-back consoles, pretty much the whole time but it's just yeah, it is nice.Like I miss my clients, even the minute, I left practice.
I'm having this lovely old client, he cried when he heard.I was leaving and it's just you miss your patients.You see clients, even the cranky ones patients and clients, he still miss them.Um, but yeah, I don't know.We'll have to see how we go.I mean into next year.I think my schedule is going to get busier.
So I just got to see what I can juggle and keep it up for long as I can do.Find that the clinical work is more enjoyable.Well, it's is a loaded question because I have my opinions on it but not doing it full time and having something else that you do and not being fully dependent on the clinical work for you or for your income.
Is it is it a shift?Is it a mental shift there for you?I do think so.Yes and like it's interesting question because a lot of the time I think especially when you're You graduate, you got, it's got to be a marriage in the sand about you really learn.So I think it's a new grad, you got to be full time for at least a few years, but even when I was at the rspca, I wasn't only doing the the Consulting and the, although, I mean, the vet work, there is very varied anyway, because you got the inspectorate and you've got the, you know, so much surgery.
One of the reasons I started there is just because of the surgical guide which was great but also, you know, the shelter work and like so many things.But on top of that, I was also helping them with their it Department because It's it was a relatively new thing for the rspca New South, Wales back then.
And yeah, my boss who hired me, I told him that I'd done some work setting up a computer Clinic is computer system and that was one of the reasons why I hired me because he thought it was his great.This new go to do that for us and I think that for a few years, nice.So even then I was sort of balancing, you know because that is full-on and especially with you know it's like you have runs a things runs when everything goes well and runs when everything goes bad and all the rest and so it's nice just to have that break.
And I find that I'm more productive because, you know, that the couple of days that you're doing which everything it is, you've got to work really hard to get that done and then you can switch to the next but it does give your brain a bit of a break as well.So I mean, I think all that should, you know, be able to work Less hours if they wanted to.
I think it would be a great thing for the profession.You just got to get through those first few years and you know learn everything that you need to learn first.No that's exactly why I asked I said and I think everybody has their own limits.I know V2.Just love it and they see Have a an endless resource of resilience to just plow through it because they love it but then I'm not like that.
And I know lots of a to you got to find that what your sweet spot and it is about maybe all you mean you can develop resilience.And you can be really good at dealing with the stress and that but it's nice to get a break.Find, I can do it, I can do it.
Five days a week if I have to, is there, if they fit the needs there, it's possible.But I don't, I don't feel my best and I don't I do my best work, I don't show up.My best on the fourth day of a Verano shift.My clients aren't getting the best of me, which makes me feel less satisfied and more likely that I'm not going to be the great weight that they want.
Some more likely that somebody can I complain or be dissatisfied.So it's Nobles.Whereas if it's fewer shifts, I go in and I'm actually excited to go in and I'm full of energy and somebody gives me a hard time and you know, it's easier to just brush it off when you're not worn out and at the end of it together and ready to snap and absolutely.
Maybe, where do we go?Grr, we got any more questions?I'll just going to just add a comment in there that we in emergency.The would you say I'd hate to say the average lifespan of emergency events because I don't die, they just move on, right?
I guess a 10-year, they're not your average tenure of an emergency vet.We we suspect is somewhere around about three or three and a half years of full-time.Emergency for so for us, it's like three shifts a week, 12 shifts 11:50 shifts a month and you You think of that and you go well, actually, that's not too bad because you do three days, three nights in a row or something and then obviously or 4 days off, but it still does get to you.
Despite the fact that if actually there's that something like, it's a cluster in a short period of time.But what what I aggressively seeing now is in which I think is amazing, and I've been telling a lot of vets for a while to do this, you're going to somehow leverage the knowledge that you have just because just because you're not, you don't want to do clinical practice, doesn't mean you can't use.
Your clinical information, your experience in the skills that you develop for years and practice to to do research, you know, or to create a product to to I don't know.Figure out some way of monetizing your your your knowledge so that it you can do something like 34 days and sort of like full-time so and more and more at work.
Now, we've seen people coming to me with ideas.Hey, what about this idea where this idea?Well, that's pretty good.You try that, and wrote and and They leveraging the knowledge and they just the think that the mindset or something they have to get over, is the thought that someone's already doing that so I shouldn't do that, right?
Yes.Yeah.I think a lot of people are scared that if they tell anyone that someone's going to steal their idea and I know that I felt this on multiple occasions starting new projects because like I say I do a few different things.And yeah you always feel like that's going to happen but the reality is, that's the thing that's stopping you it's not you think somebody else is going to pinch it and that's going to start.
P.Your the thing, you're the barrier and you just got to get over it and, you know, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be.But if it is like you say, you got to go hard and it's the only way to achieve and absolutely just get in there and do it.Yeah.Hmm.And when I see these bits and then pursuing an alternative I like it's like act like I don't know, some kind of other projects, some other kind of initiative.
That's doesn't have to be exactly just like related to bed.But somewhat the using the skills that they've learned I've always feel that they do.Look much happier, they feel better.And there they just have it something else that they could put their brain to, that is not just clinical clinical clinical or time.
So, yeah, we can be a bit narrow-minded about clinical that that's all I can.It is a nice feeling to go.Actually, I have other options, I'm not because otherwise you can't feel trapped in it if you like okay this is all I can do.This is and this is what I'm going to do until I die.That's a depressing thought and regardless of what job you do have that feeling of being trapped but just knowing that there's a there's something else.
Everything on that.And the other thing as well, is I find people often struggle with should I leave clinical practice and it doesn't things.You'd it doesn't have to be a divorce.It doesn't have to be like, either a, I'm in you'd say, yeah, I'm going to take a break and then I'm gonna do some and I want to do another one.
That's a good balance is to go.Yeah, I do it because I like it and then it brings an extra income but I can also do other things.Yeah, I'm obviously wrestling with this right now because I'm deciding what to do with my with my life.If I have to after the move, Looking at Job options in it.
And and so this is be fresh in my mind to go.How do you set up that balance to make it work?Yeah.And there's no reason you can't go down from say you normally working for five days a week is a reason why you can't go down to say three or four and that just gives you that breathing space.And like I said, one of the, like I said, one of the things I did in between, you know, working in Farmer and everything else was a bit of property investing and I said, to the company, I was working for I would like to go down from five days to four days.
And I was very fortunate.They agreed.And that just gave me the chance to really start to focus on my side hustle, which was the property stuff, which I was able to eventually grow to a point that I didn't have to rely on, you know, the income, you know, from working in normal, sort of job stuff.
You know, the investment income, I gets not huge, but it's enough to give me that sort of buffer and that base, which was what allowed me to do the PHD.And, you know, that's the thing.Like that's one of the tricks to surviving in this world because it's such an expensive world.We Vin and the realities of the moment.That's not enough.
Hopefully we can fix that in the profession, but in the meantime, you've got to do something creative in order to set yourself free enough that you can pursue what it is you want to do.And one of the ways to do that, is to work a bit less.No give the new grads a chance to work a bit more or whatever.And you know get yourself doing that other thing and you spend a bit of focus time or working with every other project is the here's something that stopped me with that and I see that so many of its, they feel this exactly what you're saying.
That's what they Want to do, they don't know what to do, which is fine, and that can take a while to figure that out.And what do I want to do?What can I do?But you need time to figure that out.Yeah.If you're working 50 hours a week and you're overwhelmed and exhausted, you don't have the mental capacity to sit and figure out and Fiddle and learn and try something else.
So almost has to be a step where you go.Okay, cool.I'm going to take a break up, I want to drop a week a day.I'm going to earn less readjust my expectations on my lifestyle or Hopefully, not in a mortgage or something that you are there to write that.If you drop a day, you are going to sink.
And then just have a courage to say, I've taken a day a week where I'm going to sit and think on a research, or I'm going to go volunteer somewhere or or yeah, try something.And, and probably the thing that you're going to try is not going to be the thing.Well, that's what I'm fighting.I had ideas of what I'm going to do.You start doing that and then there was over and thought processes, open you go.
Okay.Oh there's actually I like that.I didn't like that as much as I thought I think people have that stomach.I kept saying well I need to know exactly what the other thing is and I can't do it until I know exactly.And that's the that's the that was certainly for me there was the blockage and I had to just go.
Okay, I've got to stop driving things and then see what happens.We call that the traffic light metaphor.That when you're driving a car, you don't wait for the traffic lights to turn from red to Green before you go, you just got to have the first light and so many people want to have it all lined up before they start.And that's not how you drive and it's not how you navigate through this kind of stuff either and I mean, one thing I suggest to people because I had people come to me for advice, like I said.
And one thing you can do, if you're not ready to give up a day, waking a job.Just have a days annual leave just to give yourself that break and go sit in the park or whatever else it is.You go to the beach but it's easy to do you like it, you can find Space.When you say, you know what, I'm actually going to give this a try and we can't expect things to happen.
Quickly.Like so many other things I've done.Like I say, take so much longer than what you think they're going to.If you keep going, it happens and you just got to give it a try.I like what you're saying, they're about not everything lining up and and the other the other thing that I think that and you should you were saying as well they want to know exactly what they're doing but then they want to know is if that is exactly the right thing that they should be doing but you don't know until you try you know like Clarity I believe comes from trying and seeing if you like what you don't like it and if you find it you don't like it's a waste of time.
You just As you didn't like it.So now you've typed the take that one off and you try the next one and and the other thing is I think that even if you take time off and you like what I'm going to do boredom boredom is the one of the best motivations like like source of motivation you signature.
Only your thumb board like bored shitless.Then you start to get too creative and then you start to actually go, like I should do something with my life and then you start doing things.So I think people should value boredom.As you feeling bored you, it is that what you doing mate?Object on behalf of many of our listeners, they're going to say.
Yeah.Wait till you have kids and then there's no such thing as has brought.If I'm not at work, then I'm going to be doing something essential for home, but I think that's an important thing.And there's, this is what I took my want my wife about a lot because she also trying to figure out next steps.And what to do, you have to be selfish to some degree because if you take that time off from work, you say suddenly all right up top today at work.
And and then use at home, vacuuming the floor.Servicing your car or whatever it is that you do other chores at.That's not the point.It's not going to get you anyway you have to be selfish and say look Fridays I'm gone.You're getting takeaways later.
I don't care what happens to the family but it's between 8 and 5.I am in the library or I'm some way but I'm not here yet.Otherwise pointless have to be but a little bit selfish and it's not selfishness.You're just looking after yourself.Exactly.I'm good.And that's the thing.If you don't do it, then you're going to have this life.
We I regret you haven't tried these things.You otherwise could do and it is the path, the path, less trodden whatever they say.But I can, it's definitely worth it.You just got to just work out.How you do your journey and yeah, making my sweat.Yes, I heard a thing.
As I'm leaving the meditation at, by listen to it.Talked about some people feel that activities like meditation or those sort of things is that if you like, it's a selfish activity because it's self-indulgent and it's about me, but he said it's it says exactly the opposite.Because if you are spending time, To try and be the best version of you.
And the people around you that you need to care for the are going to get the best version of you and it by, you know, that's actually not selfish.It's actually it's very caring and giving to take good care of yourself.Absolutely.I think it's very philosophical discussion.I love it.I thought we were gonna talk about power.
We talking about Life, Journey's.Yeah, we can still talk about power.You get sick of talking about power.No, I know.I do just want to It's probably time to start wrapping up, but you said something to me before about your goal with Barbara, which I really loved.
I loved the, it was a bit of poetry, in, in what your goal is for Barbara, and how that started to do with your wind power of I started or not.Yeah, please please share of the Gerardo.Yeah, I mean, a lot of people don't realize that Parvo is actually a relatively new disease.So like I said they and when I say path, I'm talking about canine parvovirus Aziz is argument, but, you know, feline panleukopenia.
Knee and ankle feeling Pavel has been around for a hundred and something years, but kind of pave came into existence in the late 1970s, early 1980s.The first major, pandemic in the world was 1980.And interestingly, when canine parvovirus first started, which was in 1978, that's also when I was born.
So, one of my philosophies is, I'd like to add leave parvo and I think and it sort of.I also think that there may be this thing where we both can't coexist together and one of us has to die.And, you know, The last case in your track 3 with this, absolutely hold on.
But I mean that's the thing.I mean, why not?Because, you know, and the other thing is it brings to the reality that especially the younger vets.We just know a world that has parvo.Respect to the vets are a couple of generations older.And they tell you that, you know, they were in med school when it happened or they just graduated, although, in practice and they tell stories of Parvo, you know, hitting and literally all of these dogs dying, there was a survey in 1980, they had 60,000 cases of power that were reported on the survey.
The death rate was, 20,000 cases, I think 10 or 20,000 cases in 1980 and literally people would be curing around the block.There was like a queue of dogs around the block to get the cat vaccination because it was No dog vaccinations available and Australia ran out of intravenous fluids.
That's not just animals as human fluids because so many animals were going on fluids.I didn't or fluids to try and support the strategy has stock of intravenous fluids.I guess it's sort of, it's the equivalent.This is sort of like, dog covid.It's the equivalent of what we've just seen, but this was like a global pandemic of Parvo and for us, it's just normal.
We just think all.Yeah, it's this disease that people are coming forward to vaccinate, get, whatever.It's like, no, this didn't used to exist is the thing that we can get rid of, we just got to figure out.How and hence, that's why the research is important.And that's why we're going to start these programs and do all this stuff because, you know, we could live in a world with no parvo and if we don't get rid of this disease will be another one just around the corner, which ready to come anyway.
So we're going to focus on this while we have the time.I could not imagine how bad those hospitals back, then would have smelled.It one case is bad enough.You could smell that.It should like ten cases in hospital, gosh.Yeah, well, we started in South Africa.
Uni is semi-rural and it's in a fairly socioeconomically, mixed area.So we had in parvo season certainly when I was on outpatients we had a part of a war that we had about 30 cages and it and that over time zone you're in there and the horrific thing about outpatient you had so you'd work on our T's and then you had your two days in five award and because of isolation they were just you and a nurse your own bar vote for two days.
Nobody else is coming in, you're not coming out and you would do and we had 1520 power puppies, Eric, at a trot.It's very good practice for getting IV catheters in European student and its uniqueness nobody's going to help you.That the Yorkshire Terrier, puppy zero, blood pressure needs to get fluids and you don't make it happen.
I'm gonna happen.Yes, I had a very rough introduction to power, but the difference and that's what I love about your attitude Marcus, I had that.And as you say to me, that's just normal.In fact, in Australia, I got heaps better.We don't see a fracture None of the power away.We were in Perth that I feel like it's good here.
I love that you just go.No, it's better than it was in the 80s but it's just not good enough.What people don't realize is the parvo cases are happening in these Regional towns in these remote areas around Australia, and they see similar to a worse than what you were seeing in South Africa.You know, some areas report, hundreds of cases every year parvo, which is crazy.
I mean, it's just one of those things that like I said, just that the death and suffering that we see in these isolated cases, Back in 1980, what the Vets would have been encountering, used to save nor your animals.I have that Stanley this that they have an outbreak of 50 with are not in the area where they normally see parvo and I've had that on the phone crying to me and male vets, just saying this is, I can't believe that I've lost all these leaders of puppies, you know, and they're, you know, they're not young dogs, whose might be four months old, a litter of puppies or coming in, with parvo.
And it's like, we're not used to losing cases, especially young.Healthy puppies are literally 24 hours.Later, that is die.And that's the thing it's horrific and, you know, we can change this.We just got to figure out how I love it.I love them with your passion for.
We wrap it up.If you guys anything, Mike, the be missing, anything that you obviously feel.I was about to say.Anything else.You feel passionate about?You feel passionate about many things.Don't get me started.Hey, we've missed out on that to that you'd like to get out there.I don't think so.I mean I don't I presume it's all that's listening.
If it's not you know, if your dogs not vaccinated explained it but I think we all know the That.And I mean for that, I guess I will just give a quick plug to the charity.We do need support if people want to give a Christmas gift and they struggling to find the right thing to give in absolutely donate to any charity for a purpose.
Obviously is the one that, you know, he's doing his vaccination programs and is actually hosting the disease surveillance system.Like I said, when I left Gretchen Pharmaceuticals, that company gave up the hosting of this disease surveillance system.I think a charity is a good Or would you be the words?
There's a word for it but I think it's an appropriate entity to have a disease surveillance system because, you know, there's no conflict of interest a commercially in terms of that sense.So I'm, but obviously, we need a lot of money to power everything that we do.So if you want to give to the charity, or if your corporate listening or wants to come on board and give us support, we're absolutely.
You need a support, and the next 12 months, hopefully, with the covid.Starting at Bay with a lot more plans ahead.So there's a lot to do.So Mark, you've made all these offers for help and obviously if I Google pause for a purpose, I'm going to find it.
But where can people find you to connect with you or if they want to help where's the best place to go?Well, if you forget my email address, you can always just search for me on LinkedIn because I'm quite easy to find on LinkedIn but otherwise email is kelman scientific at gmail.com.
So one of my many email addresses but yeah, like I said, happy to have a Chat with anyone.Sometimes I'm a bit hard to catch, but you know, if you're interested to shoot me an email and sure we can find some time.Really, do you listen to podcasts?Mark, are you like ice cream?Would you believe I struggle to find time to listen to podcasts.
Not good with that on the side.Do you drive do you do the dishes and do you exercise if yes, then you've got time to.I'm very efficient in my dishwasher.
You exercise.I don't carry anything.Okay?And thankfully I don't drive too much except when I have to drive to Brazil or drive to the airport.So it's a challenge having time to listen to podcasts.There we go.Okay, well let's go book then, have you got bored?
Do you have books?That have changed the way you think about things?Yes, I meant our listeners.So one of the books that I really like, is called The Alchemist by, you know, the book Legend.I've read it a few times.I've been finished it again last week so when you were talking about your your journey and the universe conspiring to help you address a district, sorry I didn't trust you but nice but there's such a good book.
And yeah, I mean it's a little bit new age or whatever.But at the same time, I love it and I'm probably due to read it again.But yeah, certainly on multiple Journeys, I've been embarking on.I've sort of pull back too many times and some of my highly successful mentors have also read it as to These people are multimillionaires and all that sort of stuff.
So if you're looking for a book to read or Christmas present, whatever, the Alchemists definitely is probably my number one.Another book, I really like is called Peaks and valleys by Spencer Johnson.He's the guy that writes some to called who Moved My Cheese.
You know, that book is wrong.Yeah.So I just think Peaks and valleys is really interesting and it's essentially, the metaphor is that when, you know, things are going bad and you should be feeling down, you know, you're in a Valley and then when things are going well, you know, you're to Peak, but the reality is that, when you're in a valley, you have to get your way out of the valley to get to the next Peak.
And if you just realize that literally, it's just this thing that, you know, the height of your Peak is determined by what you do when you're in the valley and vice versa just gives you this perspective.And it's funny like a lot of the time when things go wrong.I have these philosophies that, you know, when stuff is bad, it's actually an opportunity and it's probably filed better than what you think.
And when things go really well, it probably isn't as Is what you think.It's just that we give this, you know, meaning and interpretation to everything that we experience.And, you know, the journeys that probably were all on.There's so many ups and downs and I think with life in general, like, there's always curveballs and it just gives you a bit of rationalization to sort of to understand that.
You know what?If you're feeling low, you just got to work your way out of this Valley.And you know what?You got this, huge big just ahead.It just gives you a lot of clarity.I just it's a really short book, but it's, it's got some punch.Oh my God, definitely.Added to the list another book I really like and you guys might know those those with kids.
Oh the Places You'll Go.If you read that one.Think I have it.It's a dr.Seuss one.Is it serious?Yeah, it was yeah.Okay.Don't tell us about it.Yeah, well again, it's a book about the journey and obviously, it's obviously some that rhymes but it's just, it takes you through all the stuff that you're going to expect in these dr.
Seuss way, and it's a great book for kids, but it's a great book for adults as well.And um, you know, I've read this to people in seminars that I was giving before and give it to all my friends, have kids and all that stuff is just a really good book.So if you have kids, you know, kids of any age, I think you're going to enjoy it especially the younger ones because of the rhyming in the pictures and whatnot, but even adults, like I said it's a good book for everyone if you go to favorite line from it but you in bed, you configure or not?
Yes I did.You should have sent me that before.Biggest pleasures of parenting is reading to the kids and you get these gold books.They are so short and simple and sweet.And so, so, so powerful.
I've come across a few books where that is literally on my list of favorite book in all the world and they'll be six pages long and have 20 words and then it's just something profound and it's a I guess it's my favorite actually ever thought that I'm going to start a website or something with my kids books that every adult should read.
Whether you have kids or not, that's fantastic.All when you should do it you should do the things I want to do.There we go.So, mark your a day online conference it's still 20 to 80 so is no people involved and all the new graduate Visionaries of the world tuned in and they want one little bit of advice from you've got a couple of minutes.
What did you tell them?Yeah, I think I touched on this earlier that a lot of the time, there's a thing that you feel like you, you know, You should do, you know?It could be anything from something small, something big, you know, maybe it's asking a girl on a date or maybe it's, you know, the next company that you think you should launch whatever else.
But I think a lot of people are scared to do that thing.You know, we have that fear, that little voice in your head that says, don't do it.You're going to fail.You look stupid, you know, and it's just so many times.I've read this in other books as well.So other people say this, in fact, on do mention it in his book, another good book, it's called the happiest Refugee by I another one to read, but it's one of those things that if you feel like, there's something you should do, just do it, you know, I think back to Union.
It's funny.I've all the lectures had it uni and it's like I graduated in 2000.So 20 year anniversary this year, I'm in fact.Thanks covid, missed that reunions but next year instead, but yeah.So, 20 years ago, uni, there's not much to remember specifically from uni, after 20 years, I can tell Tell you.
But one lecture still sticks in my mind and I don't know was Ross bottle.You entering Murdoch as well.Hugh and watch those.I was 11, that's right, you wab didn't go through.Well there is a amazing lecturer called Ross battle.Shout out to Ross if you're listening to this and he was a big lecture and I'm certainly not the world's, in fact not a big vet, I wouldn't go anywhere near being a big bet, but he gave us this lecture, which we sort of expected, it would be a piglet.
Checkers is Ross and, you know, he wear a pink tie and carry this little pointer with little pig on the end that he used on the overhead projector, to point out stuff like me had overhead transparencies, you've got us in this room and he said, today, I'm going to teach you.The first thing is I can and essentially it was talking through problem solving and saying, the biggest thing is that we got to believe that we can do something and like I said it's the one lecture.
I remember of all the things I learned at Uni is just you know believing in yourself that whether The surgery there might be difficult or like I said, asking girl on a date or whatever it is you know the first step is believe you can do it and I'll add to that.The next step is figure out how to do it and then actually do it.
But the first step is believing and I think a lot of people forget that we go into things where you think, I'm just going to do it be, don't believe you can do it first.I'm here to tell everybody who's listening that thing that you feel scared to do.You can do it and it's it when you do that, the whole with this new world opens up, it's just crazy thing.
That, you know, you just take that step of faith and I want, maybe you will fail, but it doesn't matter at least you tried, but if you do, try and you do succeed, even that small thing, you just be surprised about just what how the world changes to this whole new world that was just waiting for you to take that little small tiny little faith.
And that's my message that when you feel like you're in that situation because guarantee it's going to happen, just do that thing.And, you know, maybe then find me on LinkedIn and shoot me an email and tell me that you did or whatever.And if you need advice about stuff, like I said, I'm easy to find.Shoot me an email and You know, ask me about things but yeah, I do, we're all crazy, amazing intelligent people and we got through vet.
If we can do that, we can do anything.That's cool and that's it.Just whatever that passion is whether it is very related or whether it's not just give it a try.So gonna be worth it.I knew this was going to be good, but this is in even better than I was expecting.You know?Mark did you actually, when, when we were starting with, before it was a podcast, when it was just going to be talking to vets about Just thinking that successful Vision careers, you were one of the first names on my list.
I saw you at a record and and somehow I never got around to interviewing you and now moving to the South Coast that's bad.Obviously put you right back on the on the list and I'm so glad I did thank you.That was a little Slice of Heaven.I loved it.Well I think everything happens when it's supposed to, you know.
So clearly this was the time for whatever reason.And yeah obviously we're going to have to go have a few more beers now.

Dr Mark Kelman