Sept. 14, 2020

#36: The pursuit of guilt-free practice ownership. With Dr Kathy Anderson.

#36: The pursuit of guilt-free practice ownership. With Dr Kathy Anderson.
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Season 1

Dr Kathy Anderson has been a practice owner for almost 5 years, and under her guidance, the practice has grown from a 2 man business to a bustling 6 vet practice and has seen a remarkable increase in revenue. Which is impressive in itself, but if I told you that she chose to enter ownership when she had two very young kids, one of them a 2-year-old who wasn’t even sleeping through the night, you’d probably think she’s crazy, right? But here’s the thing - she’s loved her journey and still loves practice ownership and veterinary work. You’d have to look long and hard to meet someone with her level of positivity and enthusiasm for work. 

Our conversation with Kathy covers all aspects of pursuing balance, like how to ensure time off for yourself, Kathy’s tips for happy teams and profitable business, the practicalities of mixing young kids and owning a business, and guilt... something that most parents/ business owners would be all too familiar with. We chat about self-care and our responsibilities in caring for others, about the role of telemedicine in Kathy’s practice, and much much more. 

Go to https://thevetvault.com/podcasts/ to get your hands on the answers to ‘the one question’ from our first 20 guests, and to check out our guests’ favourite books, podcasts and everything else we talk about in the show. 

We love to hear from you. If you have a question for us or you’d like to give us some feedback please leave us a voice message by going to our episode page on the anchor app (https://anchor.fm) and hitting the record button, via email at thevetvaultpodcast@gmail.com, or just catch up with us on Instagram. (https://www.instagram.com/thevetvault/) If you like what you heard please share the love by clicking on the share button wherever you’re listening to this and sending it to someone who you know will enjoy listening to this.

oh my God, I never in my life thought that I wouldn't own a 5-pound teacup Chihuahua, but I do good evening, ladies and gentlemen, this is Gerardo Polly And this.Sorry I'm Gerardo Poli.
I'm you became strap and this is the vent valve.Aloha, vet bolt is and welcome.We have a bump episode for you today with a guest who came highly recommended as someone to talk to you about finding balance between practice ownership and family life, dr.
Kathy Anderson, has been a practice owner for almost five years.And under her Guidance, the practice has grown from a to vet business, to a bustling six that practice and has seen a huge increase in Revenue.Which is impressive in itself.
But if I tell you that she chose to enter ownership when she had two very young kids, one of them are two year old who wasn't even sleeping through the night.You'd probably think she's crazy, right?But here's the thing, she's loved her journey, she still loves practice own shipping.
But me work.You look long and hard to find someone with her level of positivity and enthusiasm for work.Our conversation with Kathy covers all aspects of pursuing balance like how to ensure I'm all for yourself, Cathy's tips for happy teams and profitable business, the practicalities of mixing young kids, and running a business and guilt.
Something that most parents / business owners would be all too familiar with which had about self-care and our responsibilities in caring for others around us, including our team and about the role of telemedicine in Kathy's practice and much, much more.But before we start, we want to tell you about a little gift with made for you.
We've created a beautiful eyes.I think it's beautiful little document with the answers from our first 20 guest on the podcast to the standard question that we usually finish the podcast with.That is the question of if there was one bit of advice that you would give to all of the veterans in your grades of the world, what would it be?
And the document is yours for free.All you have to do is go to our website at the vet vogue.com and subscribe to our email list and we'll send it to you, straight to your inbox will also send you updates of any new episodes and any cool resources.Come across.So it go and check it out or you can just click on the link in the episode page, wherever you're listening to this and will take you straight to the appropriate page.
We hope that you'll check it out.Now, please enjoy dr.Kathy Anderson, hell of it welders and welcome to another episode of the Vic belt.Today we have another colleague from the US are speaking to dr.Kathy Anderson from Chicago, Kathy, welcome to the podcast.
Hi guys, thanks for having me if you got an update today.How are you working or what's happening Wednesday?Well, it's still Wednesday and Chicago.Yeah.So today is my day off.I do work tomorrow morning, so guys can't keep me up too late.I like the oath day.Your practice owners is your practice and every day of midweek.
That's that's already a good thing in my book.Yeah.Wednesdays and Fridays.Nice.And you work weekend every other Saturday and one Sunday a month.Well, that's pretty good.You happy with that, love it.I'm pretty fortunate though because I do have six doctors working on my practice total, okay.
It's good there because I know many practice owners who whether they physically or practically can't do it or whether they think they can't give themselves that time off with.It's a guilt thing where they think they have to be there.How do how do you achieve that?How do you, how did you get there?
As it always been that way.So, when I bought into the practice for years ago, it was pretty much just to doctors.So over the last For years, we went from 2 to 6 and that has enabled me to basically take more time off so I don't have to be there every day.
It's really hard.It's really hard, finding veterinarians.I think all over the world.I don't think that's just a problem in the US.Okay, that's my understanding but we've been fortunate enough.I think being in a big metropolitan area, there's enough, you know, doctors to go around so yeah having six doctors has really been helpful.
All to be able to give myself that time away from work, that much much needed time away from work, but I do feel guilty.Like, you brought up that guilt is a real thing, you know, because either you're at work, and you feel guilty because you're missing something at home with the family or, or you're, you know, at home on your day off thinking.
Well, maybe I should be, you know, looking at the numbers or doing some Cee or whatever.But you can't let that get you right?Hmm, there's only so many hours in the day to accomplish everything.So you went from when you bought in those two vets so be yourself and one of the vent is that right?
Yeah.And then you move the city.Exactly myself and the the previous practice owner.Okay, yeah.Okay, cool.And then daughter up to six like when did you get to the point, where you realized look, I needed to have a day like like, did he get to a point where, you know, Do you work in every day and in the business on the business?
And then you just like, Bush something snapped, you know?Yeah.There's major kind of like, I don't know when board spot a sports car or something trying to have your midlife crisis, or whatever.And you know, or did it just like, progressively, you just knew that you needed to schedule climb out and they come stuff.
When I bought into the practice, my kids were two, and four.So they were still very young, very needy.I couldn't be at work all the time.I just, I couldn't, I was still, I'm still nursing my son at the age of 10 so yeah, I was able to figure it out so that, you know, I was able to have coverage and I was lucky enough to find those doctors that other people aren't as lucky to find.
And you know our business was growing.It was growing exponentially.I think there's like kind of a metric in veterinary medicine that as soon as your day is about 80% booked your schedule, overall is about 80% book that's about when it's time to hire another doctor.
So every time we got to that point where like it's time to look for another doctor's time to look for another doctor.We've had some amazing new grads come on, so it's been really fun.Working with them.Kind of mentoring them showing them the ways of veterinary medicine.
Good, the Bad, the Ugly.So, so did you when you bought into the practice and you had a two-year-old and a four-year-old?Well done.First of all, that's a, that's a full-time job.And then you take on practice, oh yeah, I'm so many questions to ask, but we'll come back to all of that.
So the digi structure, those off days into your roster, right?From the beginning, as a necessity to deal with.Kids or when you started where you 56 days a week.How did you schedule it?I think I learned fairly early on that in order to be my best person, the best doctor, I can be the best, you know, Mom wife daughter.
I could be, I needed to take that time away from work, like as much as I love veterinary medicine and that's such a important part of my life.I think I just realized pretty early on, I can't let this consume me.I've seen too many doctors, get burnt out.
And so I I think I just kind of took that time to step away and I said, you know, whatever happens will happen.If I'm not at the business, I hired competent people that can take my place and see appointments, so I just had to learn to trust them and it all just kind of worked out.
Yeah, I love that.I thought I could, I kind of agree with you more.I think they are Unique Individuals in any profession who loved it so much that they just want to do it all the time.The time and it's fine for them.But I think City for me and I think for many people that realization that he got you actually can't maintain it 60 hours a week.
You really can't know.You get burnt out and you know unfortunately right now we're having such a high number of veterinarians committing suicide.It's awful it.It people need to put themselves first and take that time away that valuable time than themselves.
That's exactly what you said, they you need.Give yourself like self-care is your own self responsibility.It's as an employer, you can create the space and we'd we just talked about this in our quarterly meeting and there's only so much you can do to support Veterinary ins when they transition into practice, run to you and your hospital.
And like, we're getting to the point now where it's like, okay.You have to take holiday every three months.Yeah.What, what you want week in this next three months, do you want every week off?I don't want every week off, know you.What we do want it off like it's like specially for the new guys that come through the, like, super excited.
There's want to work work.Work take on shift a connection.Yeah.Or sudden they just, they get to the point.They can't sleep.And then they're, like amped up because they have of cases that they can't get out of their head.And then they just go.Boom, and, and that emergencies not for me or Veterinary medicines up for me.
And it's because they didn't plan ahead.Hmm.Yeah, I think it is that it's exactly what you said, Kathy you have to me that's got to be the first decision because what I see happened and what happens sort of just happens if you don't fight against it is you just get sucked into that business.
And I need to do this.I need to do this.The money is a big draw card because you go out time off as money, wasted your money not earned and how much is enough money while I always need more money.So for me it was a decision.The first decision is I will not do more.Then this amount of work per week.
How am I going to make it happen?Then I've got a plan backwards from that, then I just say this is enough money, anything more than that to bonus, but as long as I can, that much money by working through hours in this per week.That's fine.And then I had to plan around.
I think that so many people that go in and veterinary medicine to by Nature are nurturing, you know, and they feel like they have to take care of everybody around them.Including And our patients, and it's hard to step away and take care of yourself first, but you're not going to be your best doctor, unless you do take that time away.
So I do feel like that's really important.Gerardo, what do you say there?But how are you sometimes have to make people take time off.That's an interesting point because it, it is as an employer as somebody who has to take care of these people working for you.
Sometimes you do actually need to draw the boundaries because you're right some people for whatever reason we'll over I've had people could do shift, so I go there's a crazy shifts.You can't do it.And I am guilty of never saying.No, because as you say, Kathy, it's hard to find Vince sometimes.
So yeah.So do I have to do the work world?Yeah, it's problem solved for me.Yeah, actually as an employer, sometimes that you should probably say, no, that's too much, hmm.Yeah.The the O'Neill's that's are you going to say something, Kathy, good?Oh, I was just gonna say, actually that I haven't even considered Forcing my employees to take time off.
So that's actually something that I'm glad you brought up and I might actually Implement into my own practice.There's a couple of reasons why we did.It one is because they people generally kind of feel like as if they can keep on pushing on, keep on pushing on and like, I'm honest, people just, like, I'll take on that taking that taking that, but it cracks start to form.
And then all of a sudden, you know, momentum builds and all the sudden things start cascading, dominoes fall over and then all the sudden six months time they in a heap.Then you just spent a long time and recuperation and discussions and stuff tried to try to sort it out so it's like a prevention in a way but also from ooh, that's a business perspective.
The second thing is that It's super useful and quite powerful to have so much to look forward to every couple months.Oh, yeah, you know, it's like, it's like it's busy now but I'm going away for four days in two months.
It's like, it's joy in the future, which brings Joy.Now, Mmm.Yeah, I think you guys in Australia are really good to about taking holidays, which a lot of people in the US, don't necessarily do I know that I was fortunate enough to the backpack through Europe.
But before I got into that school and I feel like everybody that we met in Europe was from Australia, everybody was on their Gap year and just traveling and exploring the world, the world.And we don't we don't do it enough of that in the United States I feel like that almost should be Mandatory in some ways that before you turn 25, you have to travel internationally and see what else is out there.
Explore other cultures and realize that there's other ways of thinking about life, and there's not just one way to do things.How do you, how do you do self get like, what does it for you?What's your bounce?Well, make it practical.What did you do today?
Do you have time today?My off day woke up at 7 a.m. and I was in the gym by 8.Yep.I heard my soul just thinking about that.I have to get it done in the morning.I have to it sets the tone for the rest of the day.
Yeah, sure.That's part of his anything you do most days, like exercise.The morning is thing.You do most days or my days off.Yeah.Yeah.Because like, when I work like Monday, Tuesday Thursdays, I'm usually gone for about 12 hours.So then, you know, it doesn't, it's not really feasible with the kids, but on my days off, try to knock it out.
First thing.Gets home, you know, she's got her adrenaline rush and she's in a good mood.And you know, today, I was like making pancakes for the kids because if I don't get it it you become addicted to that like endorphin rush.
Yeah.And and when I don't get it, you know I'm I'm crabby.I need it.I'm the feel good and it just keeps me motivated.I love it.I think everybody needs to work out and I heard recently about dominoes Isn't how you can have dominoes in your life and needs dominoes.
It is a particular kind of important aspect of your life and for some people, a domino could be family time.They need to have family time.Other people could be catching their Maids.Some, its nutrition.Some it sleeps.I'm some, it's exercise for me, it's exercise.
That's that that's my pillar Domino.That I do not let it fall over because that's the one that keeps the rest of my Domino standing.But if I don't exercise, but it would it down, I don't eat properly then I don't sleep right.Then I So, and so like I religiously protect exercise time.
So is that, was that one exercises for you?Yeah.And actually like what you were saying because I practice Chinese medicine.It almost kind of resonates with with what I've learned with Chinese medicine like for Optimal Health.You know, there are the fundamentals besides your diet, your exercise, you know, you need to sleep taking herbs.
So yeah it's all just kind of it all just goes together, right?And absolutely right if you don't do.One then you're most likely going to not do the rest.So it is a domino effect.What do you do when you make sure you get to that exercise because I can imagine on an off day.
There's a million things that you need to do in a rigid commas.Need to do I have to do or demands on your time, on the kids want this?So, the husband wants this, I had you make sure you get to it.I just make it a priority that is probably my number one priority on my day off and that's why I do it first thing in the morning before life gets in the way I think you have to make it a priority with exercise.
It's All or Nothing.If you don't put it number one in your mind it's not going to happen.You're going to find ten other excuses 10 other things to do instead.Yeah, absolutely so much so much to talk about that because you said so many things already that I want to Circle back to but let's let's talk.
Quizzed about how practice ownership happened for you.It's a big decision especially for somebody with two young kids.How the hell do you decide to make that jump?What was your journey from practicing with to Mom to practice owner?So out of that school, when I started working, I've actually been at the same practice for 15 years.
Wow, so not too many people can say that.So when I first started practicing, I was just kind of working on perfecting Seeing, you know, my style then I started studying Chinese medicine.So I just focused on that.I always had ownership in the back of my mind, but initially, you know, it wasn't at the Forefront and then the Great Recession hit right, like, 2008 through 2011 or so and it kind of sucked for a while here at the practice that I was at there, was my counterpart, the other general practitioner was let go, there was employees that had been at this practice for 20 years.
They were getting let go.It was scary and I watched all that and I watched the previous owner, stressing out, you know, getting calls from credit card companies because they weren't making their payments.And that just painted a really kind of awful picture for practice ownership and I would say it kind of turned me away from it.
So then in was it 2016?When he decided to sell, my Partners came in and they were looking to buy it.And And they asked if I would join in and partner with them.And so at that point, when they kind of explained their business model and, you know, and how they kind of do everything, it seems feasible for me because we have, we have a team, we have bookkeepers, we have a marketing coordinator.
We have, you know, HR manager, social, media coordinator.So we have all these other amazing individuals that can do everything.An else that I don't know how to do, I'm not good at and then I can just practice medicine and just do what I went to school for and what I love doing.
So that's really worked out well for me and that was really the only reason that I decided to partner in and and join was because I knew that I would be able to just do what I wanted to do.And it made me realize over the years that it really takes a team anybody that wants to to have a successful business.
He can't do it on your own nor should you do it on your own?You really need to find all these other individuals that can Do all those things that you don't know how to do and Trust in other people.And I know we're perfectionists as veterinarians and we like to think that we have to do it all ourselves, but I think that letting go of the reins and letting other people handle.
Some things is beneficial to everybody.So if you said pot is, do you mean current, do you call on the business with an external bunch of Partners who do some of the backend work?So you're part of a bigger group or huh?There's three other partners.
There were all, we're all equal 25% owners.I'm the only one that pretty much works at the practice, the other three Partners don't usually actually work in the practice.They don't necessarily see patients.But you know they do a lot of work outside of out of the business, the banking and the taxes and all that stuff that only one think about.
They're always there.They have so much experience.Behind them.They're all older.They've all own practices for a lot longer than I have.So I rely on them heavily anytime you know shit hits the fan, they've been through it all I'd say useful, especially when it comes to the transition, to practice, to have mentors, and to have support.
Because you said, there's if you do your solo practice ownership, there's a lot of hats you have to wear.And, you know, you just talked about accounting, you talked about taxi talk about HR.He talked about advertising marketing which and then you and you didn't have to practice your craft, right?
You know, you were all what we what we were trained to do and it can be massively overwhelming, I love that.That idea of just being able to focus on building the business, providing the best care that you can either be any sort of dropping for me there.That could well be the solution because otherwise, it is very, very, very taxing and very overwhelming because most people that I know, go, yeah, I want to buy this practice and do it solo.
And then they often end up hating it because they feel it's slightly under skilled and underperforming in pretty much everything because you don't get to do any of it.Well, You're trapped.Yeah.Now have this thing and I've these people depending on me and I've got these equations depending on me.
I've got kids at home and just friggin hate it.If you are supposed, you know, like there are many successful practices which aren't part of a larger group.But but I can see.And you know, they probably got engaged team members in their they the manage those particular areas and like I II think the value, both ways.
Definitely.Yeah.And even within the practice, you know, just our day-to-day.Day work, there's still so much to do, you know, training, educating clients about insurance.And so I love I love delegating employees and giving them certain tasks, you know, it empowers them.
It gives them a sense of purpose.It gives them something to feel proud about.So there's there's a lot of the day-to-day responsibilities outside of, you know, the bigger group, the bigger partnership that I've tasked, some Employees with and they're all exceeding and Superstars.
What do you think would be?Some of the fees do you have had associated with entering in that kind of working relationship or practice ownership model?
Did you have any fears at the start?Which have been, you know what?I thought it.I was scared.This would happen, but it didn't happen.And yeah, I mean I was definitely a little fearful that I wasn't going to get that work-life balance that I was going to become overwhelmed.I was maybe not fearful but I was concerned about how the transition from being an employee and being everybody's friend to now becoming their boss, how that was going to happen and that's still tricky.
Cuz you want to be want to be buddies with your workmates and everybody has a great time at work and we all joke around and stuff.But at the end of the day, I am their boss.And so you do have to I don't even know take a step back from that a little bit, so there's There's a learning curve, it took some time.
I think any time you do anything new, take on a new job, it takes a good six months to a year years, you know, really exceed at it.So I'd say it took at least a good year and going back to my son who was too at the time, he wasn't sleeping through the night.
So my first year of practice ownership, I still had a child that was waking up several times until the night.Wow, yeah.That let's get, let's get into that because that's That's a question.We get a lot from listeners.This is your mom's specifically mom's.
I don't know why it's always mom is because that's that's the same challenges as well.And I suppose that even the bulk of the responsibility, still tends to fall on the moms as we like breastfeeding in the middle of the night.How did you survive?How did, how did you get practically?How did you make it work?
How did you manage Coffee and Wine?I love the alternating.I saw this mean we're coffee is basically, like passing off the Baton to wine or something.
I would have put that at the sir, that's because I stole that, I thought that was but thank you, aspects, like child care who took care of the kids.When you were, when you were working, what do I had?Yeah.So you can't do it all by yourself.
We were fortunate enough that my mom was retired.So she was able to to help out with the kids and then you know we did sign them up at a full day daycare / preschool.So they were doing that a few days a week.Yeah, so I have really relied on on other people to get myself, had sanity.
You mentioned the word earlier that I think is a big thing.We haven't talked about that is guilt.Now we all feel guilt but I see that a lot.Well I'm the son of a professional.My mom was a doctor and I could see it with it.
There was that guilt about while she had a full-time five day job.And and I think she felt a lot of guilt about not spending enough time with with us for boys.I was the youngest of four and I said Lisa.Even my wife and I see it in all of my female colleagues, they want to work, they have these brains obviously not done intelligent.
They got through vet school, they had goals with their life, you don't study a 60 of course, if you don't have a vision for it but you want kids and have kids and how do you reconcile that?How do you did you feel that guilt or you said you did?And then how do you, how do you deal with it?I feel it probably every day.
Yeah, every day.Yeah, I feel guilt every day and I'd say that's probably one of my biggest challenges.Challenges in life.I'd say a lot of people struggle with that, you know, that inner voice telling you that you're not doing enough that you should be doing more.
But, you know, you just have to listen to, I felt a couple really good trainers on Instagram and they're really strong women that put out some really positive messages and you know they they don't paint this Rosy picture of of Parenthood and being a mom.
So I think it definitely helps to see that other people are in the same boat and you just have to realize at the end of the day, there's not enough.If orders me to get everything done and you have to do your best.
And, you know, if that means that you can't get through the 10 different emails that are sent from your child's school then so be it, maybe you'll get to him tomorrow or maybe you won't, you know, and same thing with like our profession better know your medicine.
I wish I had more time to read my Veterinary journals that are stacking up on my desk.Desk, you know, learning about the, the latest and the greatest and I do is I find time here and there but you're always going to feel that guilt like well, maybe maybe I should have found 10 more minutes to read that article or but you can't do that to yourself.
You literally just you'll make yourself crazy.So you have and my outlet is the gym.So, I go there and I just put in my work and I just try to forget about everything and And leave and I feel like a new person, it's good.
You know what we should do?Dramatic should have it an episode where we interview kids of it and ask their, what are they?One of them is like, I'd like to talk to Kathy, see how old are your kids now?Kathy, they're six and eight.Well, I'd love to ask teenage kids a way to grew up as kids of it.
And almost as a reassurance to parents, not just moms to say what did it suck?Do you resent, your parents were doing it?Well, the reason I say that is you can I I grew up with two doctor parents to parents who work full-time, my felt so guilty about it.But I'm cognizant, and I don't feel about like I was denied of anything, I respected that I saw them working hard and I saw them passionate about something and and it motivated me to do something of my life.
No, I mean guilt is a real thing, you know, impostor syndrome to that's a big issue in veterinary medicine.A lot of people are talking about that that feeling of No, not being worthy, enough of practicing medicine and being smart enough.
And do I really maybe this patient should be singing a different doctor.Maybe I'm not good enough to figure out what's going on.You know.I think that's a real thing that a lot of doctors struggle with so yeah I think there's a lot of demons that live in our heads and probably pose some of the biggest challenges that people have to deal with on a day-to-day basis.
How do you deal with it or how did?You deal with it.Like I said, I do.Follow a couple really inspirational women on Instagram.I think having a good group of friends, somebody to lean on somebody that is going through the same thing that you're going through and it always helps to see that somebody else's failing just as much as you are you know because it's like when you see on Instagram to and all these all these people have been so great you know posting like this is my Instagram photo but this is Actually, the photo that I took right before where, you know, whatever my my love Handel was hanging over my pants or it's it's real life.
So I think that Society has gotten a little bit better because we're not focusing on body image as much as maybe we did 15, 20 years ago, people are it's more about.I think there's more focus on mental health and actually wasn't yesterday Some sort of Mental Health Awareness Day in Australia Today is it today?
Yes, are you okay day?Are you okay?Yeah, I saw that.Yeah, one of the the Australian vets that I follow she posted that.Are you okay?Today is that just in veterinary medicine or is that know?It's like it's a nationwide initiative.I actually Spent a lot of time thinking about that yesterday because it's good to say it are you okay, so the P message behind, are you okay day Kathy is is exactly.
That is I just ask somebody, are you okay?I don't know.Mom, this might not be appropriate for the podcast but my my neighbor He's a veterinarian committed suicide over the weekend.I brought some released as it might be public.
Haven't told him, I don't know who knows or doesn't know and I wasn't particularly, I wasn't close to him or anything, right?I have a degree of guilt because you could tell you I'm doing well and to be fair, I've had subsequently that is causing the first attempt has been eyes, were ongoing problem, serious, mental health issues.
So it wasn't Random thing but I've been walking around for a few days thinking.Yeah, I've never really does it.We were in a friendly and neighborly relationship.How are you going?You know?Yeah, like that sort of stuff for anyway.I never stopped and said, I'm how things are you?
Okay.And then I wonder why not?It's almost a reluctance of You don't want to get involved.Yeah, I know you're not well, but if I ask you going to tell me and then for the fuck, am I gonna do with that?Yeah.
Well, if he said, no, I'm really not.Okay.Oh, okay.Well, good luck.That's me.That advice.Monster comes in, right?You ask the question and and you know when you're drawn in but sometimes you don't need to write that, you know, really didn't really need to be the one that solves their problems.
You don't know.Really know what's going through their head.Maybe maybe all they need to hear, is a similar situation that happened to you, that they can relate to, you know, to make them feel like I'm fine.I'm going to be fine.I'm going to get through it.
This isn't the end of the world.Life is worth living.I had my my ex-boyfriend in veterinary school.He was actually a professor, a veterinarian.He also committed suicide.So Yeah.Definitely a topic.That's very near and dear to my heart.
So I am very sorry that you went through that.Yeah, thank you.Yeah, it just made me think just made me.Think what was my responsibility?My responsibility.I don't feel guilty about it.But what did I think?
They have a role actually, did it?Online course.Here to go on suicide prevention.And it's probably important that people do that as much as possible.Possible and again in retrospect that forgotten all about that because to answer my own question, are you okay?
Ask the question, are you okay?And if it's not okay, then what do you say?And the scary thing about that.Cause so the thing that you almost need to practice is they said, if you consider if somebody is not okay, something you should ask directly say I thinking about suicide.No, have you had any Suicidal Thoughts, man?
And then they might say, no, don't be crazy, seriously, thanks for asking, but no all their might.Yes, sometimes.And then, let's not you.It's not your job to fix it, then you just need to make sure they get help.Then he said, okay, listen, I'm gonna find somebody and get it and get you there and see them because I know I'm going to do it because when they're in that state of mind, they don't have that the outside Vision to go.
Yeah, I can, I can deal with this.You need to say, right?I'm funny Lifeline.Here you go.I'm standing next to my friend.You can you speak to him?Please?Because, I don't know what to do for.Ya might find That resource again and put it in the show notes because I, again, when I heard it happened, I felt a bit paralyzed going.
Yeah, sure.Absolutely.We offer our employees.We have this like employee assistance program that is free and it's Anonymous to all our employees and up there.If they ever need to talk to somebody if they if they're dealing with anything substance abuse, whatever it is, it's completely Anonymous.
They don't get in trouble.You know, if they're thinking about committing suicide, there's somebody there to talk to that is I'm a pretty powerful tool that we do offer in our practice and I think it's wonderful.That's excellent.And then yeah.Okay, sorry, where do we go from here?
Sorry, I think.Would you you said something there about all The Balancing Act of things.But one thing that, that really struck a chord with me, when I was going through my top, dimer in leadership and transitioning to leadership and trying to balance everything in it was, that's not what would be.
It would be my key productive output.What would be the key thing that I need to produce?Is it being on the floor as a veterinarian?Is it being Hospital, director, and building relationships?Is it creating training programs that help Mentor or our scaling, the impact of our training programs.
So like for me it changes and it's changed numerous times, but it's always that, that quote that one question helped me.Know where to prioritize, my time and not feel so guilty about some things, especially from the business side of things.You, what would you say was your key outputs like, your key things as a, as in your rollers practice owner, I think communication honestly taking that time to communicate with my my manager who runs the whole everything behind the scenes, communicating with her, kind of getting a feel for what's going on with the team.
And then also just working with the new grads because so many of them when they come out of that school, you have all the, the veterinary knowledge.But maybe you don't necessarily know how to convey ideas or thoughts to owners.So I think that mentoring, these new grads giving them that confidence, teaching them, you know, just how most basic communication skills and how to build relationships with clients.
I think those are the main things for me.Yeah, I could see how that would happen.And that's potentially how you've scouted from two to six vets.It's it's each time a new vet comes through helping coach Mentor them to build relationships.So those clients, then they then they get more clients and progressively grows from there.
I can see how that key output has potentially result in growth, mmm, but that's turn that into a question.You mentioned earlier.When we were talking about how hard it is to recruit vets and you said you were lucky that You found where it's I doubt that it's luck.
I think there's got to be something about the practice or how you run things that makes you.But let's turn that into question.What other things about?How are you guys do things?How you practice runs, that a attract and keeps those vets and I've got a few suspicions just from listening to you but I'd love to hear what you think and and then be how wise are growing that fast.
What are you doing, right?Culture, culture culture culture?I think that's number one leadership.How you make your team feel?We have great employee retention.We rarely have an employee leave.So I think that that's huge.
My managers incredible.I took a lot of time to find the perfect manager because that position is so critical in the hospital.It really helps to set the tone for everybody.We also So did a remodel, which I think a lot of veterinarians are very hesitant to take on a big project like that for several reasons, obviously, cost but also just the time and the energy that goes into design and everything, but we did a million-dollar remodel that was completed about two years ago.
And, you know, I think that that itself.I mean our numbers, our new client numbers just skyrocketed Like the month that that remodel was over.I think that our new patient numbers doubled, almost instantly and I think it's because everybody clients just like things that are nice and new and we have this beautiful welcoming Lobby.
So I think sometimes you know, giving giving your practice just a little bit of a remodel or just a little bit of a facelift can really go a long way.Hmm.Well it works for weights as well.Well for a while for staff as a base but for employment.
I the practice I worked at had a massive revamp about five years in and I personally, I love going to work way more for me and it's that wasn't a short-term thing.It was for several years afterwards, I was much happier going to work because it was a nice work environment and it wasn't dark and dingy.
Yeah, if you got an interview at a bit breathless and it looks really nice, I could see myself.Spending time in this building.Yeah, yeah.So I think that's a hard pill for a lot of veterinarians to swallow.Is it?Maybe takes money to make money, but it worked out really well in our situation.
Mmm, that's a, that's a difficult one.Yeah, to weigh it up.Like the investment of that, are we gonna get the return on that?But then it's not just clients its staff.Morale will be Norrell.Yep.
Yeah, I mean it was nine months of dust and noise and it was worth it 100%.I would do it again.Cuba was saying before that you your practice their offers telemedicine as part of it is a part of covid and tackling covid.
Like is that, right?Yeah.So this was a topic that I was really interested in probably going back, two years now, but we didn't actually implement it until covid hit.I wish I could tell you guys that it was going really well and that we're doing a lot of telemedicine consult but I would be lying if I said it.
It's hard, it's hard.And I don't know what the laws are like in Australia.But for in Illinois, for example, in order to practice veterinary medicine, we have to have that valid doctor-patient relationship and we have to have physically later hands on the patient within the last year, the last 12 months.
So there are plenty of people that want to do.These telemedicine consult that have never been into our practice at all, or they haven't been in in a year and a half and at that point, you know, they're not eligible.Mmm.Yeah.So I think they're going to change that going forward because I don't think covid is going away anytime soon, so that might help.
But also for so many other things that we see patients, you either need to draw their blood, you need to give them an injection.I think it's powerful tool for rechecks.Now that that's why I wanted to talk about it because when people started talking about it I did wonder what would it be useful for?
Because I'm feel like that.I feel like what this most things but I know when friends find me about their bit.So yeah we this and this and this but I've got to check it out.Absolutely.What are you got to bring it in?I want love to help you.So I was curious to find to ask you how, what is it working for where have you found useful applications?
How do people feel about it and do you see it?Future for it in your bracket.Yeah, I think maybe when it comes to some Dermatology cases a rechecks for sure, maybe that first surgical recheck seeing maybe after an orthopedic surgery to see how the dog is walking, if he's using the leg, I think it's good for for those situations.
But I still at this point, I think that, at least a good, maybe 70, 80 % of a Ointments actually do need to physically come in the door.Yeah, yeah.That would be able to look in rolling out telemedicine and rechecks was one of the things that I think that was the one of the key points of value that we could offer.
That's like okay, yes skin is getting better.Should be photo.Let's have a Quick Squeeze.Okay, no I think you should come back and get some more anybody because something very sure.Hey, I got a question.So what's new, what's what notice was new?But what's what's in the future for you?
You like what are you excited?About moving in.Thanks kind of 12-24 months.Professionally professionally.Mm-hmm.Or personally, I mean, honestly, what I'm most excited about is tomorrow football season.Stop it.So that's tomorrow.
I've been waiting for that the Chicago Bears play their first game on Sunday, so I just can't.Wait, love it.But aside from that, you know, I think I've gotten to the point in my career where I could probably consider taking on a second Hospital.To become a part owner of.
So that's something that maybe not next, 12 months, but maybe in the next 24 months, I would potentially explore thing with the same model that I am now within the same organization.Hmm, because that's really worked out.Well for me, that's cool.
I love that all of the career progression.Yeah, that's the awesome things about the podcast with me, me talk to successful, veterinarians it slowed, the progression, and where the next like.Because for some people go, I can got your practice, you can just sit there.There and just stay with mine, you know.But they'll know.
Yeah, well that's that's the question what I'm curious.Why?Why would you consider doing it Kathy?Because I think I've gotten the practice to such a good point where I could replace myself, fairly easily.You know, if I hear another doctor to I think, within the next couple years, I probably could replace myself.
You know.And then do it all over again.Yeah.But why why not just go get cool of replace.Myself and comes coming it.I'm gonna kick back and go to the gym every day and hang with my name of my kids could go to the gym every day.You're right.I think the building that Nest Egg building Equity being able to retire at a fair, like my husband and I were just saying yesterday when we went on our honeymoon, we were thinking, what's the farthest place that we can pick?
What's the farthest place that we can go to?Because when we're older we're not going to want to travel so far.And so we were talking about that yesterday.Like man, we're glad that we did some of these trips that we did.You know, we went to Thailand for a honeymoon but we're so glad that we did that because I can't imagine being in my 60s and being on a plane for 24 hours.
So I you know, I kind of want to get back to traveling as much as I used to and explore some of the world and, you know, I love working, I absolutely love, love, love working, but I think that if I was able to retire earlier and still continue doing veterinary medicine, and maybe more of a, you know, consulting or volunteering type of roll be fine with me too.
Hmm.Okay.So here's my advice.We had that point first.Take a minute retirement.Go travel and then coming back and start second practice.Okay.All right.Appliance nationally there.
Take three buds.Good traveling.Let's practice, run itself and then come back.
Have you thought of a succession plan for yourself within your own business?Now, Not, you know, just if I were to buy and not necessary for some to buy you out but more so to replace yourself as the victory leader or, you know, ya know, I do have another doctor that is very well liked by the staff has shown some really good, you know, leadership qualities.
So I've already kind of thought in my head that if I were to ever leave and maybe move on to another practice and kind of focus all my energy on that practice, I would make him a medical director in a heartbeat.Beat.So I'm kind of strategically you know, have had have done that.
Yeah it's it's all about hiring the right people and really taking the time to put your team together.Yeah because that that that's that's a couple years in the making probably you know, you probably oh yeah so like if you probably maybe you hide in last week and he's really good you know not but but I'm sure he got to that point do to you investment in time and management and they would have been.
He is a yeah or how long have been with you guys.Three years.Mmm, yep.Three years.Definitely.I'm loving this conversation.Can you you look like you love it, you look like you love the whole practice ownership Journey.
Do you like I do, I love it.I do I always post on my Instagram pictures of how much I love my job.You know everything from just being able to snuggle puppies and I think my favorite thing honestly is and you guys wouldn't get this in emergency medicine but just developing that relationship with clients, you know, seeing them over the years because I've been in practice long enough now, where I've seen dogs as puppies, all through their life and then unfortunately I'm the one that euthanizes them but I think I think that's probably the most exciting part for me is just developing that relationship with my clients and mentoring my new Grads.
Yeah, I really love it a lot.It's funny you say about the relationship because I was the first thing that I missed when I went to music just like, repeat clientele, maybe eight percent, or something like that.Yeah, I think that's it.That's years down the it's like years later, they need us again.
So nine percent of the time, it's new client and and yeah, it's like a good couple years to kind of let that go and go, you know, I music and develop relationships all the time now but Now, I'm sure there's many emergency veterinarian is out there.Now, that I actually feel lightened by not having that relationship in a way they feel.
Like as if they can just let go of they've done their bit for the pet there on that shift.Now it's another veterinarian responsibility or their primary referring practices responsibility.So they can sleep here tonight and I haven't know or think about what's happened in some way to transition to that.
It's an interesting thing I do.Times wonder about it.So the VA to re-interview in Hawaii, speak to person who seemed to love veteran science.The most almost, always, that's the answer, why you love it.And it's the relationships as the people.
The weights are the most miserable, but as being very, it's the biggest reason that they give is, it's the people.The clients drive me, insane, they make me tired, and I wonder where that disconnect.Is it a mindset?Is it a personality type?Is it a, some people like spending time?
People and you get energy from that and you love it and you are the right person for veterinary, clinical, practice.And are some people just not wired that, right?I have a bit of that, sir, I love people, but I also get tired.So one of the aspects I like about emergency is it's not I don't feel like that ongoing responsibilities.
Almost, that can sometimes feel training.I like I like the part of a merger that goes.Okay, job done put it behind me.Who's next Yeah.Where's that skin case?That comes back and comes back and comes back.I can't get driving.
Then you just referred that, I think it is personality.
What you're wired to do, what you're not wired to do, and it's unfortunate for those people that come out of that school.And they don't really realize what it takes, you know, they have this image painted of just playing with puppies and kittens all day long and they don't understand that.
We are dealing with the clients first and foremost, I think it takes a high, you know, level of emotional intelligence to that can't necessarily be taught, but I'm sure there's You know, some sort of seminars out there that can help with that.Yeah.
But I do think it goes back to personality type.Mmm, cool.Yeah, okay.The, I could take a chat you all day, but if we should probably start driving up, is there anything else that you'd like to address or specifically want to talk about?He'll think so.
I think we've had a great conversation with concerts a lot of topics.Mmm, a little lip up with our last two questions that we wrap up with as a standard.Am I?Your podcast listener?But cast, I find my American gay stuff and go.What, what, what if I pass, I wish I could say I had the time for it but I don't, I don't I'm not a podcast listener.
See this is what this is.This is this is what's great about podcasts because it's a time you don't have time to read books But you can listen to podcast at the gym.What were you driving?Or with you?When you're doing the dishes or anything like else, it's just that you get into the Habit.
See when I'm driving to work.I like to turn on the radio and pretend like I'm a pop star.But do you have any podcast that you can recommend for me besides your own, obviously soap?So many?Well, if you, if you say you follow people on Instagram, you know, inspiring people at to me.
So, huge thing.A lot of my mental well-being is from broadcast, from listening to to the right podcast.People who it's such a window into extreme expertise.You have these world class people and world-class performers, who, who sit and have living room conversations with other world-class performers.
So it's just a great inside of the top of my head and I said, I wasn't prepared for this.I can give you.I can send you a list of varying from Total education to it just entertainment.Yeah, well I will send you a listing of whatever the list.I said Cathy I'll put on the show notes for people as well.Gerardo you got any ones that jump out straight away?
Well I can start with.This is the one of the most popular podcast in the world is the temperature.He interviews, high-performing people and very insightful.I've learned a lot from listening to Tim Ferriss so there we go.Stop start with him.All right, Gerardo is this to at the moment?
I always listen to Brendon burchard.I'm one of his high performance coaches.So Him and love.It's tough.And the negative one recently that I've got on and I think it's super cool.Is the science of success.Hmm.
And yeah, just it's a really easy listening podcast, but can get really quite detailed into things, like longevity.How to increase your lifespan?What's the science?Binary or it's like things like how to develop real courage or how to like so they get these Spurts in these really specific fields and like it's super it's I find it really insightful for leadership.
Hmm it sounds amazing.I love the title.Hmm.My current favorite but I think it's partly just because I like his voice.Have you read any of safe codons books?I want to say it's marketing but it's not.If I say marketing it sounds it doesn't think capsulated.
It's ways of thinking about cultural a lot of culture in a lot of marketing stuff I came.Aki em Bo Kimble broadcast, by Seth Godin, just draining renewed little episodes.Fantastic.Fantastic concept.I think you little resonate with you about creating a team, and creating a vision and all that sort of stuff.
Great.Great stuff to different areas.Are you supposed to answer this question?Not educate me.Okay, we'll wrap up with a final.I get it.So you are at a video conference, the probably online at the moment.
And you were all eventually new graduates of the world.And you have a couple of minutes to give them one message, just one bit of advice for their future careers as veterinarians.What's your wisdom?Have fun.Number one, always have fun work hard play harder.
And I would say it all goes back to communication.Communication is so key.It's the one thing they don't teach in veterinary school.When you graduate veterinary school, you get that anxiety, that you don't know everything.You're never going to know everything.So you have to let go of that.
And I think it's more about focusing on perfecting your communication skills because that's not something that you'll know how to do right off the bat.So I think learning how to communicate with team members.Staff learning how to communicate with clients building that relationship.
I think that that goes so much farther.You know, that really helps to develop trust that Bond.I think it's I think that so many new grads are just hung up on that knowledge aspect and I wish I can go back and tell myself when I was graduating at vet school that that's not the most important thing.
So yeah, I feel like Human communication, and not just in veterinary medicine.But just life in general, it just really helps to prevent a lot of fuck-ups.Totally does, especially if you have two men.Yeah, and then and then probably it for those that are interested in owning a practice building a team.
That's key.You can't do it all by yourself building a team finding the right manager, finding those people that are better with technology better with dealing.Staff, issues building that team, the lawyers, the insurance agents to focus on on all those things so that you can just practice medicine.
That's cool.Really?I feel like I need to upload.Yeah, such a such a fun conversation.Kathy, thank you so much for your inspirational conversation.I wish I could come visit, you you look like a great great that we have so much fun.
Oh doctor Dr. Dot Kasha Ka yes.IA dot Anderson.Okay.Gotcha, yeah, Akasha is Polish for Cathy don't tag you in a photo.All right.Stop recording.Thank you again for taking the time to listen.
I hope that you found some value in that.And as always if you did and you can think of somebody else you might like it, please take a moment.To send them the link to this episode or if they are like Kathy and they don't know how to listen to podcasts, take a few moments to educate them, and hopefully change their lives forever.
Remember to go to the pitfalls that come and register for our mailing list.So we can send you the answer to re one question and a fantastic week and we will see you next time.
Her.God did that in one fucking breath.Hey, yeah.

Dr Kathy Anderson.