May 29, 2020

#29: Lead to succeed, with Paul Ainsworth.

#29: Lead to succeed, with Paul Ainsworth.
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Season 1

Paul Ainsworth is the founding director of the Lincoln Institute, which is a leadership and development organisation for veterinarians and veterinary teams. He is a highly sought after executive coach, facilitator and key note presenter.  Paul is a graduate of the Australian Defence Force Academy, University of New South Wales, the Royal Military College Duntroon and was awarded the prestigious Sasakawa Leadership Scholarship by the Australian Graduate School of Management’s Executive MBA program. As an infantry officer Paul has seen international service in 5 foreign countries, culminating in leading an international military observer unit in one of the words harshest environments. Paul has safely lead teams out of crossfire, negotiated the release of hostages, reopened international borders that had been closed due to hostile acts and provided humanitarian relief to communities suffering oppression. On resigning his commission, he was appointed Director of Property at ALDI Foods where he oversaw the roll-out of a large number of supermarkets. His appointment as their first Director in Australia ensured his place in establishing the culture of one of the world’s largest food retailers. Paul has over 30 years of leadership experience across all socio-economic and geopolitical boundaries making him highly sought after as an instructor and facilitator to all levels of business. In this episode Paul tells us epic stories about leadership success and failures. He talks about fear, and the antidote to fear, the art of mindful transitioning as the solution to burnout, having difficult conversations, but more importantly how to prevent the need for difficult conversations. We discuss the biggest challenges a new leader will face in their role and how to avoid those pitfalls, plus how senior leaders can help new leaders fill with roles successfully, and much much more. For the show notes or to check out our guests’ favourite books, podcasts and everything else we talk about in the show, click on the webpage link on the episode page wherever you listen to us, or visit the podcast website at thevetvault.com. Connect with us by leaving us a voice message on our episode page on the anchor app (https://anchor.fm) and hitting the record button, via email at thevetvaultpodcast@gmail.com, or just catch up with us on instagram. We’d love to hear from you! If you like what you heard, then please help us to spread the word by subscribing to the podcast (it’s free!), and by telling your friends about us.

That's a lot of speaking coming up right now.I know you can do it.He said the sort of stuff that have we do, you know, you can't, you can't not admit to it because everyone was to learn from.You've got as the leadership, you got to create the culture where it's not, okay, to make stupid mistakes but it is very much.
Okay, that if you do, make a mistake, got up it.I'm Gerardo Poli.I'm Hubert him strapped, and this is the vent valve.Hello, vit vaulters in this episode, Our Guest gives us some of the best content from his high-value leadership programs and you are getting it for free, right?
In your ear holes, right?Where you are and we think that you're going to love it now, you might be thinking, but I'm not a leader but you're wrong.Veterinarians are by default in leadership positions and even if you're not in an official leadership role right now, the skills we discussed in this episode are crucial for being a part of a healthy team.
Paul.Is the founding director of the Lincoln Institute, which is leadership and development Organization for veterinarians and Veterinary teams.He is a highly sought-after executive coach, facilitator, and keynote presenter, Paul is a graduate of the Australian, Defence Force Academy, University of New South Wales.
The Royal Military College duntroon and was awarded the prestigious sus koala leadership scholarship by the Australian Graduate School of Management's.Executive MBA program as an infantry officer, Paul has seen international service and five foreign countries culminating in leading an international military Observer unit in one of the world's harshest environments, Paul has led teams out of Crossfire negotiated, the release of hostages, reopen, International borders that have been closed due to hostile acts and provided humanitarian relief to communities suffering.
Oppression, I'm resigning his commission.He was appointed director.Of property at Audi Foods where he oversaw the rollout of a large number of supermarkets his appointment, as their first director in Australia.Ensured his place in establishing the culture of one of the world's largest food retailers, Paul has over 30 years of leadership experience across all socio-economic and geopolitical boundaries, making him, highly sought after as an instructor and facilitator to all levels of business.
In this episode, Paul tells us some epic stories Bradley Leadership success and failures, it talks about fear and the antidote to fear the art of mindful transitioning as the solution to burnout having difficult conversations.But more importantly, how to prevent the need to have those difficult conversations in the first place, we discuss the biggest challenges and new leader will face in their role.
And how to avoid those pitfalls plus how senior leaders can help new leaders.Fill those roles successfully and much much more.This is one of our most densely packed episodes content.And we encourage you to listen to this one.And if you hear something, that makes something click for you in your career, in your life and you can think of a friend or colleague, who could benefit, from, what Paul talks about and please remember to tell them about it and share the links on your social media.
I'm still surprised how many people don't even listen to podcast.So we want you to educate your friends and colleagues to get them to listen.I also want to remind you to check out the show notes on our website.We post a summary of the highlights of each episode plus links to Any of the resources that our guest mentioned in episodes on our website so go and check it out at V8 V.com.
Now, back to our guest Paul ends with Well, thank you so much for making the time to join us in the VIP fault.I am looking forward to picking your brain to doodle.It's Bebo and I don't know if it's possible to have at all.
So yeah.Well thanks for having me sir.It's lovely.They excellent.Well I'm going to jump in with with something with a question that I like to start with just to just to get a story going.I saw a sign on the side of a building the other day that said, Bad decisions lead to good stories and it made me think.
I thought that's a, that's a great question.I I was to drive along thinking was that true?What decisions that I made that have led to some some good stories?Is it true or false or and have you got any any stories like that that fits with that narrative?
Look II.Do have got a few stories are like that.I think most of the stories that I have a that have sort of funny stories are ones where Are, you know, involved, pretty major stuff ups and, and unfortunately, they all sort of tent, you know, that sort of Wendy.
When you're young, you go back there.They're sort of the most informative years and, and they sort of stick with you and that's where you make a lot of mistakes as well.So I'm gosh, what should I look?I'm happy to share a story.
So this story goes back to 1980 aging myself now 989, And always posted to the US Marine Corps in Hawaii and as part of that, posting the where they train in, Hawaii's up in the Kahuku mountain range.
So if you've been a while who Island go the West Coast will huge.Waves are the mountain range just sort of Cascades down to the water.There is a road along the beach and if you look to the left as a surf but if you look to the right, there's this pretty horrific sort of mountain ranges beautiful to look at but the thought of actually going in there is is Very steep, Ridge lines. 700 meter drops, one meter wide, passage way up through the jungle.
It's very, very tight area.But of course, that's with the Marines train, and to be able to get into the Cougars, you can't get in, you can go by vehicle.It's a long way in, but they always deploy by Blackhawk helicopter.And so I was fairly new to this and I had a troop of soldiers with me.
And my soldiers are quite young, so they're sort of average age around 22.Ring and the repelling is across as it is above the jungle canopy.So it doesn't feel that high when you're in the helicopter but when the helicopters hovering above a 90 foot, canopy or 100 feet in the air.
So you're, you know, if you're 10 foot above the canopy of 20 foot above the canopy, your about 100 110 feet in the air and you deployed by rope off the skid.So what they do is they strip out all the seats and then you climb in the back and then you drop down off the skids by.So it's a repeal, it's like a like an Abyssal but without a wall, not.
So you just drop and we didn't have time to do my to training and I was there with with a soldier I can name names.Can't I see present go anywhere made this is awesome.Okay guys guys name was Private Brown and I've never really forgotten private Brown because I screwed up badly.
In fact I think I'll probably trashed his career.Well maybe I brought it to ahead very quickly.He really struggled I've I'm petrified of heights so I can't stand them.I've parachuted I've done all those things that you meant to do it.Army.But I've never, I've never gotten used to height, so anyone who tells you, you can go parachuting and get over your fear of heights.
They're just they're lying to you, what you can do those, You Learn to manage it, right?So, and particularly the leadership role, you kind of got a manager because if you, if you don't like, no one else can do everyone's looking to you, right?So it becomes easier to handle a situation if everyone's looking at you.And so up we went and these Blackhawks have been a training and then we went up on a we're on an oval and we started practicing.
So 100 foot up, it's just To give a sense.It's 10-story building you get out of the when a Blackhawks hovering it's a huge heavy-lift helicopter so it can its base plate is bulletproof.It's got all this armor on and so it's really heavy itself and it's got a huge lifting capacity.
So it's draft When you stand under the skids of a Blackhawk under the propeller of Blackhawk.I'm sorry, but you ins, hover is huge and it wants to blow you off the skin.So you step out for at a time, when you step out, are you tied to anything, or are you just You got to rub it got a carabiner and a rope just like you would stepping off a cliff, you know, like you've got a little little feet right in the front and and then they and then they says, two ways you can go.
This is I'm just describing one particular method and which is what we were doing with these soldiers and because we have quite a bit of equipment with us.And so we step out on the skin and you go clean skin.First of all, then you start to load yourself up with equipment pack and a weapon and everything and he couldn't do it.
So they helicopter will be off for a time.Had been dispatched.Sergeant and true to the US Marines at dispatch are just, they are just absolutely comical.You know, the way they like they're almost like, you know, those Baseball umpires that are just like squatting down and they're just hands are going everywhere and they're yelling orders.
And when you jump out of a helicopter, you've got to go one person each side at the same time, because if two people go on one side of a helicopter, even a black orchid will pull it over.So because you drop about 10 15 feet before the weight of the Rope takes up the slack.And yeah, he wouldn't go and so the helicopter came back down with him in it and I said, what happened?
They said hey look he can't do it and I said, okay brownie you and I are going to go up together so we're not together.I got out of the skid with him.Got two guys on the other side of this patch start and gave it one, two, three, go.He couldn't do it.And finally, he just he lost it completely and few things, you know, he threw up and and it was, it was, it was awful.
It was just awful and it was one of those Leadership Lessons that you learn very early on.I should have eased him in word, you know, because I was calling most oblivious to the fact I wasn't oblivious to the fact of how scary was because I was packing it right?
But but I was oblivious to the fact that these guys weren't in my shoes being the leader.So I kind of have to do it and I had this impetus to get me across the line and first time, I went parachuting, actually another little story.First time I jumped in my eye, I wanted to go into Special Forces and I knew it had to perish because it's sort of part of it, bread and butter and I was so afraid of heights.
I was trying to chat up the girl sitting next to me in applying so that's how that's how it's all.Just outlines the first time between.Which one is the, the scariest.Don't forget.The Black Hawk was definitely the hardest.We love dating for a while.
Actually, she was cushions but nice.But yeah.So anyway, so this excited guy couldn't go and we end up blowing the and he had to go back to base and they had to fly back to Australia and and he was discharged and and I thought was really bad.I mean, he was in a really bad way and It was one of those.Terrible, terrible experiences and I don't laugh about it now.
I still I still don't laugh about it, but what it reminds me of as a leader is how important it is to, you know, just to set those expectations really clearly up front.So people know what's, what's going to be happening?I didn't do that very well and also I could have just done that so differently if I just been a little bit less self-focused and which I wasn't, because I was so focused on me getting across the line, which was going to be hard enough that alone, everybody else.
And I kind of forgot the fact that if we Of a 10-foot wall, then maybe a 20-foot wall and then, you know, we could have done some stuff that would have helped him.I don't know whether it would have got him across the line in the end.But yeah.So that's that's a that's a good about 10 of them, but we won't talk about anything else.
If you get me started on stories, oh actually, we could do a whole past whole podcast on mistakes and stories.But yeah, you said several things there, which wanted to go back over.But you, you talked about Uh management of fear and as a lead you're going to manage your fear.
Hmm.What do you what are your thoughts regarding around that in terms of one of the one of the strategies you said there was Role modeling way, right?If you if you put yourself out there as a leader, all of a sudden you people are watching.You.Yeah, that's one way of developing courage.Is you step up and start role modeling the way?
But what are the kind of what have I done?What would you say to a leader who was tackling fear and and getting around that?Well I remember sort of Meaning of since her better described as box breathing but I remember remember learning, tactical, breathing very early on overcome fear.
I remember the first time I jumped out of the back of a Hercules.So Hercules on with the ramp goes down, funny story here to someone sat down on the back of the rap.So when you go out the back of a Hercules, you it's a, it's a static line, jump, right?So, you you hook onto the cable.Yeah.
You've got a strap that goes to your parachute, which is sitting on your back, obviously.And, and, and And it it's attached by velcro and and it the velcro is quite strong.And so it opens a flap on your, on your parachute bag and then a little pilot Chute deploys, its about size of a handkerchief.
Yeah, that drags out there are so so I remember lining up for that and it's my name's Ainsworth.Of course, I was always in the bloody test of a good thing and a bad thing.And there were about 60 years in the back of this hook.And we were down over for Java, stay in Sydney, and with 4,000 feet up and when the ramp went down, Don't just look out the back and it's too funny feeling because I'd already done some profit parachuting that's time.
So I was kind of okay with it.But I remember I remember tactically breathing at that point.So that's where you breathe in hold, and that, and that holding part is actually, you can feel the physical effect that it has, and then I'll breathe out.And then I hold an external lines.
And I've seen so that described by brene Brown, they call box breathing in the US Special Forces and she's done some training with those guys over there.So I Is that a lot?Hmm, just finish that story.So this person you take four steps in the fourth.Step is of the midair.Right.So the back and all you do.
All you do is you'd lock your feet together.It's like a roller coaster ride.So, you know, one, two, three, and then you just put your feet together and you just slip into the slipstream.And, you know, they got a reserve Chute on your front, but you've got no time to open it.So, but they've never killed anyone in the military and jumping like that, which has just come here forever.
At least of the military.Not at not at parachute training school down in down, that angeles-based.So so the Runnings, pretty robust.They very physical with you and do a lot of it before you actually get in the plane.But this person sat down on the end took one, two, three, and sat down, and they've got these parachute deployment guys who are just there, the instructors, and they're standing at the back.
They've got a parachute on, in case they get sucked out and they're strapped into the back of the helmet, back of the aircraft.And they just literally as this person's bum, hit the back of the bottom of the ramp.It was like a drop kick.His foot hit the smaller.
This person back.Booted them out because of one of the risks of course is their parachute deploys in the aircraft.Oh, and that's terrific because that can take people out with it to unite like anything can happen.It can shred on its way out and drag you out shredded.So he wasn't gonna have borrow that.
He kind of must have seen the look on this person's face.I'm sure they're quite experienced.So this is going to be a setup.So as this person set, he booted them in the back.I don't think it even spinal damage.But I'd tell you, This person just disappeared out that I use that Gerardo and I think just mind over matter, you know I think you can over over overcome the fear I think sometimes I think it's heavily linked to expectations.
So if I think about, you know, a lot of the audience's listen to this they'll be frightened.That's first time that a large dog, spay.For example, my Be one example, you guys are no more than I would but you know, the you've just kind of got it.What are the expectations and if your boss has said the expectation, that everything's got to be absolutely perfect.
Which of course, is a silly thing to do because it breeds this sort of environment where I won't, I won't try because I don't want to make a mistake.And the other thing is I've always had a growth mindset.So I don't care if I screw up.I really well, I do care but I don't.
So I care if it's going to have, you know, a big impact on the This all, I'm somebody else.I definitely don't want to do that but if it's if it's just a genuine mistake, it's for me.I don't even I don't even spend, I don't spend any time sort of thing about it other than how can I make sure that doesn't happen again.
Mmm, I sort of almost go into everything I do with a very, with the real growth mindset.Mmm, I had a boss wants.You had a really really fixed mindset.You know, that, you know, the sort of the rationale around fixed mindset.And my fixed mindset is where and you season kids are Lat where if they don't think they're going to be able to do it, they won't even try.
Mmm and I'll cheat to get the outcome because the outcome so important.I wonder who this guy of this guy Rose to lieutenant colonel in the Army, right?So he was my Battalion Commander, no one liked him.He was so disrespected and or had no respect from anyone in the Battalion and I'm doing the cross-country run and it was kind of expected that the the junior officers would kind of win it, right?
Because you're supposed to be fit and you are very fit.And that's the top 10, probably 80% of them top a or offices often.Not always my platoon Sergeant.Always - he was very feared, but my Battalion Commander cheated, he cut across an oval.
So again in the top 10 and how I just, I kind of reflect on these stories and I think back to these people and often it's more the example of what not to do, rather than of what to do.And then I look at that and think gosh, yeah I like that you prefer.
Best way of dealing with that fear or anxiety of all worried about something.So meant to me, the surgery.One is a very good example when I was younger of it.That's still still happens.I still get nervous about big surgeries, and I've always try to focus and I think lots of people try and focus on the mental game.
I'm yeah, what's the worst that can happen in that?But I like that.That first step is to go all focus on the physical because there are those physical things that happen when you, when you feel like that, that probably don't do you any good.And I actually never never consciously think of that that something I want to do next time.
Next time I get a diagnosis could come through the door, stop from stop and breathe, and then start thinking about it.That's excellent.Yeah, what's up?Well, one of the things we teach you, I don't, we, if I've discussed with you, but we teach this sort of mindful transitioning, which is not mine.
It's I've watched read some information about which I thought was quite cool.And that is, you know, if you think about the cortisol levels of the stress levels of pick up in, in our Has as people throughout the day, you know, and then eventually we're so wound up by the time we get home, those people, we care most about, we are not very good with.
And, and so mindful transitioning, is this process of of exercising, mindfulness throughout the course of the day to reduce your cortisol levels.So they don't accumulate because as they build up and build up and build up, you get to a point where you kind of run our your so compassion fatigue.
And and that is to reflect on what has just gone.Well, so let's For example, you deliver patient outcome the client, just basically says that's ridiculous.I'm not doing that and storms out, right?So you just think our stress levels go up, obviously anxious about that.
You'd be be fairly silly if you weren't, but then to be able to reflect on what went well.Well, what went well is you stuck to your guns?You delivered a patient.You tried to act in the best interests of the patient.The client wasn't having it, but ultimately, it didn't end well.
It could, you know, you should have done something for the pet.You didn't get a chance to do that, but there was one element that went, well, knows that you did have a confidence to be able to present the best patient, treatment plan, and then so so reflect then rest, which is the Box breathing that I described.And then reset which is what's the best version of myself?
I need to take into the next into the next consult.The next meeting when I walk out in a reception how do I need to present myself the best?And I think it's that last step you the box breathing sets you up for the bits that last step. that's so critical because If I'm getting into the back of a Hercules or getting onto a Blackhawk or whatever.
I would always say to myself and I didn't kind of do this consciously, you know, this sort of process of mindfulness probably existed for many years, but but I've never heard those days but I would do that, I would say what's the best version of myself?
I need to be calm.I need to be confident.If I don't do those things, that might be to hang on to the Rope.So it's really important to do those things.Anyway and then I kind of just manage my way through it often, breathing my way through it, and it Yeah, these powerful.That's a, there's a real powerful technique and like it.
Yeah, as you said, it's mindful mindfulness, but it's like why, why, why refer to as intention setting?So, you set the intention for the situation.Hmm.And one of the most powerful things that I've done recently is actually look at my day and what's coming up in the day.
And then look at the most stressful thing in the day and then prepare an intention for it now.And then I think about, you know, What kind of version of me?Do I need to be in that situation?And how would that suit?How would that help me then?So now I play, they play a version of it in my head so that I don't then spend the whole entire day, thinking, about rocking up, and I don't know what's going to happen.
It's kind of like I've played a successful version of it in my head.Yeah.And I'm going to turn out, you know, I'm going to turn up his calm, confident and capable or something.Yes.And it really kind of takes the pressure off every morning when I plan my day, I look at that thing.And it's like podcast with Paul's.It's really Peaceful, you know, a lot of, you know, but what variable version of me, someone light energetic and kind of present and energized, right.
And then the podcast will happen.Yeah, hmm.But like I love what you said there because it really resonates with me and it's almost like You can't change, what's just happened?But you can change how you step one step further, like the next step that you make, yeah, this is what's that expression.
You probably, you know, I spoke may know this.Only saw it recently in the last couple of years, but really resonated for me and says and it was we don't rise to the level of expectations, wefald the level of our training as well, and I think that's really true as well.So, you know, there's the set yourself up for Success, going with the right mindset.
But, but at the same time, if You haven't tried, you know, whether it be physical training, if it's something really physical or whether it be emotionally, training, mentally, training, spiritually training.If you like if you're not set up for that, it's unlike you can do it in the moment.
I was reflecting on mindfulness the other day and the power of mindfulness.But most people think I, it'd be so cool if I was really mindful during this time because I know how good that is when I am mindful, but the reality is that most people don't think about doing that until it's in the moment.Hmm, who thinks about being Mindful in the moment, you know, it's like you either are or you aren't and if any of you're not you're not, you know, it's very hard to kind of just turn it on.
Mmm.Yeah, Yeah.So so that good Mindful and when I when I attended your Workshop the other day, you talked about it as well.I have sort of mixed feelings about the word almost feel like it's got bad marketing, there's there's in my head.
As soon as you save mindfulness people started thinking A peas and woo and you know which which I think it's inaccurate it's that that's all I thought about it for a long time and then again your you with your military background and that it's I was almost surprised to hear you talk about it.
I don't picture military guys, be it to mindfulness in that.So I was curious what is what is mindfulness mean to you and what does it look like for you, in Practical terms, what was this great poem by Robert Hastings called the Station.
And in the station was read out of the might of Mines funeral and in the station in about the fourth or fifth stanza of this Palm.It says fear of tomorrow and regrets or I'm paraphrasing but fear of tomorrow and regrets over yesterday our twin thieves of robbers of today.
And I think that sums up mindfulness for me because mindfulness is about being completely present, whether that's with your kids, your client, your patient.It's not worrying about something that might happen that probably won't happen or fretting over something that just happened that actually doesn't serve you well right now.
So mindfulness better about being completely present which I think for some people think you know to practice mindfulness you've kind of got to get into this this sort of Zone where it's completely silent, and you're sitting on a Mountaintop and, you know, I think you can practice mind, but I know you can because the friends who do it, practice mindfulness Parts on the way into work in the city and Sydney, you know, they sit on the bus, they close their eyes and all they do is they just make they close their eyes to sort of minimize the distraction, but you can do it with soft eyes as well and and just be completely present.
So here, the bird outside.Don't think about the bird, I just observe it.So you can hear the sound of the bird Tweeting or the air conditioning.Going or the car horn going, as it goes past of the car, driving past for the truck, you just observe those things and if you do it for long enough about 10 minutes a day, I think it's I think it's probably one of the most powerful things that you can leverage, you wouldn't go into a.
You would not go into a Marathon, run running event or a half marathon without having trained heavily.If you did you collapse in a heap fairly quickly, it's exactly the same if you're trying to use the Power of the mind to get over difficult conversation or get, have a have a, get through a tough situation.
I once heard, a quote actually on our Summit a couple of years ago, where, where one of the guest presenters said that, you know, when the body gives up, whether it's all in the mind, gives up the bodies to a 30% in the tank.I'm a huge believer of that.That's so true because I've experienced that a physical level, where you physically think you can't go any further, but you actually can, and you just keep going, if you have to and the mind is the same.
Except I reckon the mind is just so much more powerful.Yeah, I don't know if you were the one that told me, there's Paul.But is there a military technique for people?It's be like, Special Forces, use it or something, to remain alert.And it sounds like, as if it was their, there's aspects of it, which I mindfulness, as well, where they think of their senses.
So you talked about, you know, you see what it's like, what do you see what I'm seeing this and then, what do you hear?And they go to like the next level which is Equally taste, what Can I taste?What can I smell?And then they go and then they go like, kind of what do they feel like with this skin and stuff?
I don't know.What did that, did we look at this?It's not something I think I've mentioned, but I can totally relate to it.You know, it's I think one of the other things too is particularly with fear and and often fear manifest as anger.So the people will lash out but they're actually fearful we saw this in covid recently.
And so I think it is really important to be super accurate with our feelings.So I'm I don't like the term, I'm stressed.It's kind of like, well, what a stressed mean?Are you tired?Are you anxious about what, you know about the unknown?
Are you overwhelmed with information flow and maybe you need to dial that down a little bit?I mean we ran a series of covid-19 webinars that we're up to our 10th when I think of 9th or 10th on this Tuesday.This Wednesday and I've had guest presenters, come in.
And I had the, the director of emergency for to of Sydney's large hospitals, is made of mine and he agreed to come on.And I just asked him a series of questions little bit like this.And, and, you know, I said, how do you deal with the doctors who are just really stressed?
And he said, well, the first thing I do is I tell him to stop listening to the news because it actually isn't helpful.You know, you can read what's going on the UK.The u.s.Spain, adds no value to them.A job or what?I as a director, what he expected them to do, when they got into the Ed Department of this, this hospital and he needed to be focused.
So he said, turn it all off because it's all not very helpful and I think that's a big part of it as well.Is that the recognition with you mentioned earlier and Edward you saying to be able to be clear about your feelings to me that the biggest benefit to all of this.
A the first step, or the first wind out of out of mindfulness practice is that ability to Nice.Yeah, where it comes.If you're not conscious of it, then these things happen and that angry client happens or the fear hits you, and you just give in to it.
They're just the wave that just washes you along and you rock your flail around with it.Where is where is?If you and as you say, it takes practice before, it doesn't just happen because you decide you're going to do it.And I because for a, when I started my own mindfulness practice for a long time.I was like, well, I don't think I'm getting any benefit from this because it's not something.
I'm not suddenly then calm yeah and nothing ever upsets me and I think that some people have that expectation.That that's what they hoping to achieve.It took me a long time to realize that that's not what you're trying to achieve.It is just that recognizing oh this is what I'm feeling or this is what's happening to me.
Do I really want to feel this way?Okay, well, no, it's probably not how I should be laid me.They would decide how I'm going to react to this.So the anger is there, or the fears there?Yeah, it's just about recognizing it.And then going, okay.Wait, what next which is which is I had a very nice way of putting it as well.
The is on Sam Harris, Sam Harris as an app called waking up that I really, really enjoy and I like his laces and he had a great story about What it should mean for you or what it can do for you and it's about where your, where your attention goes as.
Well, that that's me is the biggest.But so he has, he has a little story that he tells.He says, we all will have limited time.We're all going to die.Yeah, he says.So it's your house that you're living in the house.That's your bet is your life is burning.
It's burning down.If your house is actually burning down and you've got, you've got a minute or two, to go in and grab something of value and bring it out.You want to concentrate on what you have and if you just run in thoughtless, then grab something you can I come up with the toaster and go oh shit.
That's not what I want.Yes, is that's how you should be with.Your attention is go.Well, your house is burning down, so be very careful where you allocate that attention.So you don't crab stuffing, its of no value.Yeah, if that process, isn't it of?And I'm a big fan of Sam Harris as well because that process of observing things, but I'm also, I'm a big practical, kind of Like I want to know how you're going to do it so we have two dogs and their beautiful dogs, two poodles, our love them to death but if anyone comes down the driveway they go ballistic and they have got this.
Really?I don't know if I've got Gunners are too long in the Infantry better, they just cut straight through me and it scares.Frightens me, they went in, they bark, it's sort of like, it's this sort of jolt.And so I decided to use that as my Thing to try and build a better relationship with my responses.
So in other words, trying to basically get on top most because if you think about all the different situations throughout the day that wind you up, it's very difficult when you're in a wound up stage.Going to go, I think I should be Zen right now.Or, you know, I need to try and find the best version of myself bullshit.Like, you just going to react and some people, react, anger, some cry.
Some, you know, whereas with a dogs barked I just got so angry, do you hold the dogs, is they stop, buddy barking.You know, like this is crazy.In then I'd get up.And by the time I got home, I got to the door that they're still yapping away and getting me more wound up.So I decided that that was going to be.
My focus was with the dogs barking, right?So as soon as the bark went off, that was going to be my that wasn't with my trigger to kind of go, okay?Breathe like just just observe rather than react, you know and it worked it's unbeliev.
I didn't think it would work.It worked almost like within a day.So now they bark I get this.Amygdala response, that sort of that, you know, that medieval response that he kind of just as stimulants, just so great.But now, I building enough time it's only two or three seconds for me to choose my response and by the time I've done that they're barking away like they always were, it's almost like I don't hear it now.
Hmm.And of course, it changes, everything changes, changes everything.The family's response in there were sitting in the living room and the dogs bark and yeah so you can do it.I would suggest Yes, find one thing that triggers you and when it happens, use that as your little eyes, your little reminder and just practice that and I think you can then sort of back and then it kind of, you know, that's the thin edge of the wedge.
I do the same thing with my kids.If you have kids except that they still live in Talega, get up, when I get angry, I don't need it.Because, of course, colleges are closed and the 21.
We all she's doing more.She's a very sharp woman and she's focused and studying hard.My son is doing Mickey mechanical engineering.He honestly kills me, he just kills me.He doesn't get our beds 11:00.He's on his phone the whole time.Ali actually want to shove the phone down his throat.
You have these fairly robust, but you can't have those conversations in the kitchen.Not Emily came.My office the other day.She said this and then you are casting.I just been just winds me up.I get so frustrated with him, you know.I just wish you would just be a bit more mature, go get a job, you know, do something and he's got a job but you know, going to get two jobs, just get busier know.
Like, if you want to embed 11:00 in the morning, what are you doing?You know, and it was so good.Emily, just sitting here, just talking me through it because of course, she talked me to a point where I sort of got to go into level of acceptance.So that there are there are a double-edged sword out their kids.And if you're watching this, you've got young kids, it just gets worse.
Like when you're talking about your daughter covered through and kind of somewhat even, I don't know coaching you or something like that.Would just write maybe think of young vets, young vets and I think it's it's somehow we don't necessarily set them up for failure but they not really skilled in the things that you and I believe there should be Skillet and, you know, they the corn stop skills.
But I think That's really just the meaning that one of the most powerful skills that they people should develop.And so they graduate from University, they put in positions of decision-making and so forth and that they don't even realize but they're in leadership position, straight from the start, you know, they're making life and death decisions they get asked about, you know, she reorder this drug not drug.
Someone shows that nurses having like, is having an argument, can you go help sort that out and like so we don't train them in any kind of like managerial leadership.And of performance strategies and things.But how would you?How would you?Let's say, you, you were stepping into a new role into a new position.
What kind of tips, or strategies?Do you think what kind of advice would you provide someone who was stepping into a supposed to be stepping into leadership?Well, I think the first thing that's, I'll just say it as it hits, it hits my mind.The first thing that I think of dry do is I think most people go into a leadership role thinking they're meant to know everything mmm and I think it's really dangerous.
Nice.Junior leaders, don't know everything and they need to very quickly learn the art of deference, which I know we've talked about on programs before, but the art of deference is the best way to describe it is, the way, the way you would communicate with your grandmother.You know, you might know more than she knows, but you wouldn't tell her that.
So you would never put your grandmother in her place.You would ask what she thought about something.And essentially, even though and Sort of, that's what called probably where the, where the analogy ends because she's not Junior to you, but I think it's perfectly acceptable.
If you've been promoted into position, you've got an older nurse for example.So you're a how I would you be Gerardo 2324 is event graduating bit.Yeah and you got a 34 40 year old nurse it's been there forever.Hmm that's a bit like going into a battalion in infantry battalion with a couple of old sergeants and warrant officers who literally think the Vietnam War still going on.
You know?Like these guys are just they are Brutal.And they look 10 times your age and they're very suspicious of you as a Junior leader.And sometimes they will just say to you, sir, come over here, get back in your box and they'll Rafael respectfully, refer to you with sir.
Even though you're and you are their boss, but it's kind of like, if I ever see that again, I'll take you around the back of the shed, kind of thing.Are you allowed to say that?It's a bit of a baptism by fire, but I think when you go into a bedroom, Hospital.You don't have to know everything and to show deference.
So so for example to go to a senior nurse and said, look, I've got some thoughts around something.I'd like to share with the rest of the team before I do that.Can I get your thoughts on that?I think, is it tremendously powerful thing to do to build trust with that person?You don't you're not sucking up to them.
You simply showing the respect for the fact that they've been there for such a long time, they probably have already seen it.You know, so many different ways delivered, by different people and they've seen what's worked and what hasn't worked there?Just So that's the first thing is, you don't have to know everything in the show difference.
The second thing is you know, that I don't have you remembered your either, the acronym fat with a little spray it.So it's a fallacy that people wake up in the morning, think I'm going to be belligerent today.The Assumption needs to be that, everybody's trying their best, hmm?
And the truth is that if they're not meeting my expectations as probably because I haven't been clear enough.Mmm.And I think that's so true particular around Behavioral.All things.So, you know, we don't accept the fact that we talk about each other behind their backs, and it's kind of like, well, you know, that should be a given.
That's not a given for a lot of people.It's not that the example, their parents set was not that the example that they've watched under prior leadership is not that.So, for them actually, no.This is the way we do things.We do talk about each other.It's how it's my little Escape valve, or my little relief valve, and I can have a good Obsession about somebody and I feel I think I feel better about it after I've got it off my chest to somebody else.
Well, the reality is you probably do feel better, I've got a chest, it's just something right approach.Now you might know that because you're well educated as a vet, you know, on the IQ Spectrum you're at the top end of that.So you kind of intuitively get the fact that these things shouldn't take place.
Most people do kind of get it.But if you're not clear on those things then That can be a problem and of course you know difficult conversations are only difficult because we haven't had a confident conversation earlier.Mmm, so what I mean by that you didn't set the clear expectations of the start so your potential in that they not doing it because they just that, you know, they're not, they're not smart or they're just dumb or not.
No, that's that's pretty critical right.But, you know, in a way you put down their failures because of the fact that something is wrong with them.Win.And in a sense, you didn't set the right Stan, didn't, it's like values, you know, like like we have values in the practice and they're often a glossy poster.
That looks all very nice and it's often in reception, so everyone can read it that comes.And I actually, you know, I read those values and a lot of them were what I call core values, honesty, integrity, and trustworthiness.I mean, you know, knocked me over with a feather.Of course, you're going to have those values.They're kind of like those things that you have to have, but then, there are other values like collaboration or You know, don't talk about each other behind their back or something like that.
That's very, very unsophisticated way of saying that, but I think, I think it's really important that those conversations around those values be having a regular basis, but not when you're getting someone in trouble, it's too late.Mmm, that's it.That's a difficult conversation to have.And sometimes I will get a call as a coach with I'll ring me and support and how to have his conversation.
Also, I don't know how you have it, either.Mmm, because I don't, I don't think you've been clear enough.Yeah.Yeah.So, and and probably they're going to think you're a hypocrite because, you know, maybe it's someone turning up late and you occasionally turn up late, you know, because life gets in the way.
So I think it's really important to have these conversations on a, on a really regular basis, and Paula butchers paper off the wall and sit in the middle of a meeting room and say, what do we think about collaboration, but also get the bullet points down around a collaboration and write them on The Butchers paper.
You know, collaboration for a receptionist Maine to the vet won't send the client out the reception without having first told them what the bill is.Hmm, so they're not hearing it from receptions.The first time, when they ask for the credit card number and collaboration for a vet is between event and Earth.
Is if you're going to place a drug order and the drug is on back order, don't just drop in another.Anaesthetic liking tell me what it is because I may not want to use that anesthetic.Mmm, so that's collaboration for a vet.And so if you go around the practice as a whole host of things that are important to different people in the practice for different reasons and I'd get all those down.
As you know what is collaboration mean to you?Get half a dozen little statements down, that's full of spelling mistakes and it's full of grammatical errors because it actually doesn't matter.Doesn't matter at all that, it's got those mistakes.In fact, it's better to have those mistakes because then as the leader I can say, you said, that's what Calabro, I didn't say that was what collaboration wants?
You said it was so we can talk about this in a confident way.Way.And I would suggest as a new leader.If you ever going to call anyone on going to have that conversation, you need to You need to be one that self-effacing.You need to be the one that says I made a mistake this week, I'd like to share the.
I'd like to pull off collaboration talk about it because I think I messed up badly this week and I'd like to I declare that I'd like to get that on the table.I'd like to share it.So no one else makes the same mistake.The Air Force have this as a policy.It's really profound.
They they have confident conversations the whole time so there's never any difficult conversations.Of course there's always some.It really difficult ones, but I could tell you stories a bit long actually, but shorty was in my team is very tall guy and he was an F-111 pilot, which is the long-range bomber and we're doing a range shoot down and pack a punch a hole.
And he was the it was we had a huge crowd about 4,000 people.I was sort of dug in at the front of the crowd.I was firing an anti-tank missile, he and he's was the arousal, right?So he's got 24 500-pound, bombs, and he's dropping on target.He missed the Target by 8 km laser-guided.
Liza means that the I owe you for these things.Work out.Anyway.See mr.He just missed the Hume Highway.It was never reported 1992.You can look it up and check it.Check your archives 91 or 92.Yeah.Took out a whole Forest regrowth it anyway, he sort of dropped these bombs and went up to about 45 50 thousand feet and it had a back to Amber Lee up in Queensland and on his way back, the squad commander on the phone said shorty when you get back into come and see me like this.
Is quite late at night.By this stage, I'm 8:00 at night and it was a dusk sort of thing.And here, when he got back, he was called in.And I said, and I caught up and I said, Mike, what happened?And he told me and it wasn't his father's Navigator put in the wrong data, but I said, did you get in trouble?
And he said, no.Why would I get in trouble?I said, well, maybe a couple of things, you know, is gone through the forest.I only just exist.That was a when there's a few things that cross my mind embarrassment and and he said on and I've got a god, I've got in trouble, known it to anything, he said, the sort of stuff that had we do.
You know.You can't you can't not admit to it because everyone was to learn from it.So I think that's that's there's some really powerful lessons that can come from there but you've got to as the leadership, you got to create the culture where it's not, okay, to make stupid mistakes but it is very much.Okay, that if you do make a mistake gone up and so therefore, if you're going to talk about values and have a Confident conversation, early.
Make it your story, never Target, another vet, or another team member and embarrass them know.If it does need to be raised, make it something that you did.And even if you did it years ago, when you first graduated or something, but make it about what you do.So that's why I think that's important.
I love hearing about these things but what gets me or what I really struggle with as a leader is when to have these conversations because I know that I should Having them in.And I had this idea of how you want to lead people, but the practicality of in a VA Hospital loves of actually sitting down or being somewhere where you can have these conversations, how do you coach your team through this?
What do you, what are your suggestions to make it happen?Well, first thing is induction in doubt, you know, if we look at induction, It's usually the sort of the mechanics of the Roll.Hmm.And induction is got to be a lot more about that a lot more around Behavior.Most the practices I work.We don't have clinical problems.
They've got something odd thing, but No, they've maybe they don't share it with me because I wouldn't know they're talking about anyway, but most of, it's not clinical, it's not sort of the mechanics of running the hospital.Sometimes it is the rosters hard and but it's the rosters not hard.It's people's attitude towards the roster, that's a problem, or its people saying I can't work on, you know, this Saturday because I've got this but they don't have the personal accountability, go and find a replacement.
They just dump it back on the practice manager at a head nurse and say, you got to find a replacement for me.And so, it always goes back to the behavioral.Aspects.And I think.Induction is a great time to have these conversations because it's kind of a honeymoon, period, you know, the you can't go wrong because I haven't been with you long enough to have made these mistakes.
So, Paul, we don't tolerate people talking about each other behind me back and I got a couldn't agree more.You know, I could not agree.Like I hate that he's okay.So maybe you could share some experiences where you've seen, it happened in the past.
Hmm.No and like I want to I want to go deeper on that with you.And this is the conversations we're going to have all.We walk around the clinic in that first month.I'm going to be pulling you out and this and I'm going to just be drilling all of these really important behavioral things in like, so what does personal accountability mean to you?
Hmm, these are we, you know, take responsibility for stuff.I've got.Okay, we'll look here we teach.There's a little bit more to it than that.But here it's about seeing everything and we talked about, you know, the four steps of accountability, but it's not just owning it, it's seeing what you're owning as well.
Because Is often.We place the drug order.The drive is probably wrong for a junior person.When we place the drug order, the drugs are on backorder.So, we get some other random drug that we wouldn't normally use.If we don't see the implications of that by going and then briefing all of the Vets, For example, on the fact that we've got this drug on backorder, it's not coming in till the end of the week.
Yeah.You sure you can own it all you like and you can just get in trouble all the time for having done the wrong thing you've been about, you can be the person with the highest level of ownership ever.But you got to see beyond that and say, well, if we constantly having, if you're constantly having to own something we need to see beyond that and it's like so just even personal accountability, super important and I would be drawing out examples, highlighting times.
And during team meetings I would I would be going through one value, every team meeting, where are we winning?And where have we still got more work to do.Hmm.And let's have a look at this bullet point.List.And what on that list, still make sense to us, what do we need to add to the list?
And if I was being stonewalled which often happens, you know you sit in a team meeting and you kind of just put this out there and everyone just kind of looks at you.And no one wants to be the first person to say anything, then you got to do the facilitator tree, right?So this this is the facilitator trick when you don't know the answer to a question, sir.
What do you think?So, you've probably heard me say it a number times rho DV.It's even better when they don't know you get or talk to your friend.Yeah, exactly.And then see what you guys come back and then we'll have a chat and then act like and then you bring it back.Plenty said, tell Oh, the person.Next you have a conversation.You can't hide with the person next to you.
Like he one of yours got to open your mouth so you can even do it in Zoom.I've discovered.Yeah.Going to rooms but I think that's that's an important thing to do is just be constantly reflecting on these things and don't accept everyone.
Just looking at you and expecting you to have the answer.Mmm-hmm.Excellent.I actually pulled you started off the first.Two steps of accountability.See it, own it.And then the last two for those people who haven't heard the for, oh, sure, yes, we got to find a solution.
It's just solvent.And so, you got to see everything that's associated with it.The implications on the team, the implications for the patient's, the clients, it's a great place to start those three.If you can't think of three things think of those three, because they're the most, you know, they're there for three stakeholders on beta client, the patient, and the rest of the team owner, he's tying yourself to the outcome and recognizing the fact That if you don't do anything about it, you know.
What is if you're not part of this, if you're not part of, you don't make yourself part of the problem.You won't be part of the solution.That's the expression.I like to use.So you kind of you've got to go to dive in and say, well, what part of this is, is, is me like, how am I contributing to this problem?
That someone who owns it.Just immediately goes to there and just after this sort of seeing what they need to see.And then the, then the solvent is, is coming up with a solution often.You won't have the solution, but you'll have, All the right questions to ask.And you got to find a solution.
Even if because there's nothing worse than inertia, you've got to keep going.So, find a solution even if it'll ever be the final solution pretty good, but it'll never Google final solution, be done with me on that.
So it'll never be the final decision and the last one is do it.So so see it solvent.Do it doing it?I think practice owners generalissimo's things.They're pretty strong and ownership they come to Solutions.
Just don't do it, especially stuff without a deadline.There's a synonym for ever.You know, I've got practice owners that I've worked with for years, who will say, to me, I can't get our profitability, any higher and efficiency, and the nurses, the Vets are all cranky and And you sort of go in and have a look at the infrastructure that's there, and it's the practice manager.
It's not the right person for the job.And you sort of say well when are you going to see it you know.And they they just they refuse to see it or they do see it and they kind of own it.They go.Yep.It's me, but I'm not prepared to get rid of this person.Mmm, or now it's not all there or they're lovely, you know, like lovelyz great when a team first starts, but lovely, won't cut it.
If it's frustrating.Everybody else in the practice because they don't have the core talents for the role and eventually eventually they will do something about it but sometimes it can take years for them to do something.Procrastinations biggest will get a bit of procrastinators in as I think a little bit.But procrastination is a big killer for personal, you know, practice owners who say I'm personally accountable, are you really and they go?
Well, yep.I, you know, I own it and I take risk full responsibility and and I come to decisions and then I look at some of the stuff that does non deadline related and they haven't done anything on it, so they're not really personally accountable, like you've got to go the whole way and either create a false Oh my big one.
What?Because I'm a bit of grass.Made up what I like to do is I like to actually delegate and make somebody else accountable for it, whether it be my accountant, whether it be a lawyer or some other form of external consultant external support.
So, you know, that that Jack Welch expression, hire people, who are smarter than you, that's me, that's me.I learned it the hard way, but I've never felt intimidated.Dated by being surrounded by people who are smarter than me but I don't sleep well at night and I get very stressed when I'm surrounded by people who aren't smarter than me.
I don't like that at all.And I've done that with Lincoln.Every person at Lincoln is smarter than me in their, in their respective, areas of the business, as a junior leaders.Going back to your first questions.I would be really honing in on Who has what talent around me that I can tap into, and if that's a nurse, that's a great influencer because they're just cool and everybody likes them.
Then I would be tapping into that talent and I make about have them part of my guiding Coalition.Yeah, one thing I've found that helps keep me accountable those.I like the whole day, get the whole idea of setting deadlines and and also then like sharing the responsibilities under something delegating it possible.
But I don't like if I should, I start declaring it as something to put my ego on the line.It's like this is something I'm going to do and like I'll keep it in some kind.Like, so if I'm scared of doing procrastinating it, because I know I haven't done an ages.Then, what I'll do is I'll start to share in it and all the sudden I start hearing more people and more people and I like garnish it over.
They have to do it now because I've told everyone that conflict to do this thing and it's been one of the things that have been the biggest push and drive to completing projects that are big and scary is the fact that everyone knows I'm doing.In it and if I don't do it.Yeah, my Egos and aligned.
Yes, I had an interesting one though, because that's like that's a well described method of of kidding yourself to do something and then I heard a psychological study that said it can backfire for some people for some people.Deli owners that I want to do this.
Let's say I want to write an article or decide, I'm going to start a podcast and yeah, and then I start telling people about it, a part of my brain goes.All right, I've started doing something about it because I'm telling people about it and you bend your brain goes.Yep.That is that was an action of done it.
And if people stop there because they go, yeah, I'm doing it or doing it actually.They just talk about it.Actually, you're very clear that sharing really clear yet look, I'm going to do this by then for making a A smart goal to the knife.Well, one of the other things I'll share Dorado is this is something I discovered the Chrysalis program, so we run the program for junior leaders and so it's head.
Nurses, senior nurses, who are showing great potential vets and one of the things I say there is most people get quite stressed around.Now, leading particularly their promoted with their within their peer group.So they're now there have been sort of pulled out as the person who's a better nurse than anyone else.
Half the nurses are sitting there going well.Hang on a sec.Second like, you know, or maybe the vet sort of got this really strong sense of of Faking it till I make it and and don't feel as though they've, you know that what's that, what's that called?
We've got that, that sort of syndrome with I feel Buster syndrome.Yeah, imposter syndrome.Exactly.And I think I think what's, what's, what's really important is recognizing the fact that the first level of leadership and maybe a level of acceptance around, this can be helpful.The first level of leadership is Modest level and and the reason why and I'll talk about it for a nurse perspective promoted because you often see this with Junior leaders.
Going into a being promoted is that they feel as though if someone's not doing what they're meant to be doing.They want to jump back in and do it the correct way.Hmm.And so but that's not their job anymore.Their job is to lead other people to get it to the point where it's the correct way and the two Pradaxa kle because or juxtaposed because if I if I say get promoted and and it's because I'm good at what I do, pretty typically, right?
So I'm the best nurse, so I get promoted to nurse.I feel as though management is looking at me going.Well, that's the standard that now everybody has to have hmm and that's simply not the case.People who have been in a senior leadership role don't look at their junior leaders and have that expectation.
What they do is they look at their junior leaders and say I was able to hold you accountable, to do this job as a nurse, and you did a great job.I now want you to start holding ever and I am full recognition that the whole team weren't like that.So my expectation of you is that you will now lead your team to doing a good job.
We know that people don't do a good job with them in micromanaged.We know they don't do a good job.I'll never learn Mastery.If they're pulled out and sort of pushed to one side and my boss jumps in over the top of me and does it for me every time.I'm a slightly wrong.So I think another piece of advice, I would give anyone going into a practice is just You can have a standard that you want to work too, but it's very important to develop a left and right of Arc, it's a military expression.
Some people are going to produce a six, trying their guts out, and some people will produce a 9 or an 8 or 9, not trying very hard at all.Both of those are on both of those are acceptable and unacceptable the same time, the six out of ten is not acceptable but it's also not acceptable to two wrongs.
Don't make a right.It's not except for you to jump in.Over the top of that six, the best thing.Coat that person through and say, how do you think that went?What do you think you'd do differently?They had another chance.Another had another crack at it.Let them answer the question.And then say, okay, do you want to have another go look?
I'd love to have another go.Okay, so let's let's do that and how you're going to approach.It's like if he sets a six out of ten person and then the nine out of ten person.So how do you think that went?The cell was a really easy so willful so easy.Why didn't we do better?So what would you do differently in order to be able to improve the outcome and so in both Instances.
I am going to be coaching that person and encouraging, that person to step up.And one of the things I say to Chrysalis, people is gone by a clipboard because if you're not busy, find something to be busy with, but don't make yourself busy by doing their job that used to be your job.
And it's now not the other thing.I think super important to is that is the language that you speak.So there are four languages that you can speak when you're in a leadership role and they range from directing all the way through to empowering.And directing is what the language you speak when someone doesn't know how to do something.
So their competency level is very low.Typical will be induction.I'm guessing, you know, how to wear your uniform, but let me be super clear about how we wear the uniform here.Hmm.This is day one, right?And, and that could go, you know, this is how we put in a catheter watch, what I do.
And then I want you to do what I, what I did.Okay, so that's very directing and style when the Competency levels like when the comment levels high is Empower them and just essentially, you've got to be their support person, you know, you just give them give them their boundaries and just let them get on with their job.
And you know, if you've got a nurse that's promoted to a senior nurse role and they're intimidated talking to their mates who is also a senior nurse, they're only intimidated because they feel for some reason they got to boss them around.Another don't they just need to be that support person for them.
They got a kind of take care of them and just say, you know, Dorado.Look, you may or may not be aware but we're down a nurse today.What can I do to support you?And your function is a nurse and so your you don't I'm not bossing Gerardo around if a boss Dorado around he would just look at me as if to say, who the hell do you think you are?
You know, you we were mates last where you got promoted, Paul well-made?I'm sorry, but, you know, smarter than me, you know, better than me, you know, as well as I do.I could have got that job as well.You just be here a year longer or whatever.So don't put yourself in that situation.Get curious.
Like, just be curious about what other people already know and how you can tap into those resources, a tap into that resource.I think that's a very important for a Junior leader.So most going referring back to the act of deference to your colleagues.
Yeah.So as a veteran, will practice owner or a team leader, how do you facilitate that?How do you make sure it happens that way?So you've got this dog.Let's stick with the example of the nurses.Out.I'm the veterinarian.I'm promoting this to senior nurse.
What do I do?Or how am I going to stuff it up?To make sure that fails.Look at, it's a great point and I would be saying, look, I've just promoted, let's use you guys and just say Hugh, I've just promoted Dorado to the senior nurse role.These are the expectations I have of Gerardo.
I think you and your colleagues need to be aware that these are the expectations I have of him.I've asked him not to step back.In and jump in, every time he sees something going awry, I've told him that he is to be challenging you constantly and asking you more questions than telling you what to do, because essentially, you're all experienced nurses and you know what to do.
So Dorado will be as much as anything a support person for you, but I expect you to support him.I expect you not to undermine him and I and I will take a very dim view of anybody who actively decides to.
Um, you know, undermine his new position.It's a tough gig that he's gone into and he needs everybody support.Not only my support is his boss but also your support as those people who he will be required, to come back to me and justify it's an effective team, you know.
So again there's a confident conversation, but I'm not going to sort of, you know, grab someone and say, you know, what are you, what are you doing?Because it becomes that's a very that's a difficult conversation.Not much rather have the confident one up front because everyone in that confident conversation will go.
Oh you're absolutely right Paul and good on your Jaguar.Do you like that?People are people are generally nice like that.I think.Hmm.So it's a pathetic setting, the expectations from the start I like those words over you could actually just edit that little bit of sound waited say well this is exactly what it is, family.
That conversation before, you know, me.And that's why I'm asking because I I do that, I don't do this.Well, bull, you talked earlier about being the junior officer and big put in your place.By by the senior guys.
I can imagine, I'm just trying to picture life in the military that there's going to be a lot of conflict.A lot of strong personalities, a lot of testosterone flow together.I'd imagine as a lie.Her in the military, you need to be very skillful at dealing with conflict.
Are there parallels that you can draw from that to which we practice?Also often a stressful situation, often strong personalities.How what have you learned about conflict that we can apply in any other job?Direct parallels are quite hard because the conflict is often very different.
But I, I think it's sort of the probably, the first Thing to do would be apply level of apply a filter as to what is the conflict?It is the conflict politics.Or is the conflict genuine push back on something that is not right, you know, and should be addressed.
So let's say, for example, I went in and yelled at or nurses, right?And then someone came up to me and said, Paul, you can't speak to the nurses like that.Where the hell do you get off?What's this?I really like a response that kind of knocks me off my kilter.I could take the view that that person was being political with me, or I could take the view that that person had.
Thing, really genuine and they needed to express.And I think the mark of someone with high EQ, emotional intelligence is the person who can take a more objective opinion of their own of, their own performance, and very quickly ascertain that, you know, I've got a trusting relationship with this person, you know, this practice manager would not have, just literally, I must have really screwed up when I went in and spoke to the nurses.
Then I didn't realize I came across Like that.And you know, we do know around self-awareness that we're only about 40 percent accurate.As to we come across, it's a biological issues later to the fact that we can't retain everything in our conscious Minds.A lot of things are happening.
Unconsciously hand, movements hand gestures arms, folded, you know, there is a, you know, that sort of resting cranky face, you know?I often know that soldiers used to say, to me, what's wrong boss, and I'd go nothing, why?And they'd say, why do you look so So angry, I'd say, well, I wasn't angry until you told me that I looked angry, intelligence and being willing to be able to step back and accept.
The fact that not all conflict is bad confidence.You can make most conflict in an organization can be spun around if you don't get defensive.Defensiveness is the biggest killer in a Shit since you're defensive you your amygdala kicks in.It's fight or flight you.
And if you're saying something to me here, that's problematic and I'm defensive.Hmm, only thing I will be looking for in what you're saying and this is something I pulled out of a podcast, not that long ago.The only thing that you will be, I will be thinking about you is what you're saying, and that is wrong.
I won't hear anything that I agree with.I will just be trying to find holes in what you're saying to be able to defend my position.And that's that's what we do as a species.You know, we very good at getting into a defensive posture and we naturally go there because I think being really mindful of of not getting defensive trying to be objective, go to the bow.
Can you have a look down?Build it, having a trusting relationship with somebody so that you can actually, you know, work it through.And, and let's say, for example, I didn't have a strong trusting relationship with you.You might say Contributed grates on me.We have this expression in the military called withdraw to ground of your own choosing.
So I would, I would not engage with you at that point.I would go to Gerardo.I said, Gerardo just said this to me.Do you agree with him and you're at a table?Paul, you do come across like that sometimes or yeah, I can see how that would be or no.Look, he's having a bad time at the moment.
Let me talk to you.I say, well, no, I can talk to him.That's fine.I don't need you to do my talking for me, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't completely off kilter Because huge is bit my head off and I don't know why.So always having those sort of those mechanisms in place, I think can be tremendously, powerful and and then if you can get the get to a point where conflict is productive where it's a, where it's a really robust, confident conversation that you having around things without ever taking anything.
Personally, I think that's that's probably the one parallel or Draw mmm-hmm.What about?So let's say I'm trying to be self-aware and I'm trying to not just see the holes in your argument but I know that you are not like that.
You might you might the veterinarian on my team and I want to go and discuss something with you.That's probably not going to like and I know traditionally you going to react and think it's me and not the not the fact there's any approaches or any tips or anything that they could make that work better?
Well.Look, I think sometimes where there's conflict in an organization's.Huge and it's politics.It's a bad conflict.This is the Lencioni.Quite the conflict without trust is politics.Mmm.So I would go to trust And Renee Brown has a great acronym for trust and it's braving.
She's written a book about it.It's really cool.And you know, we now teach at Lincoln and it's the b stands for boundaries.I'm in a great way to again.Using one of Brunei Browns, a term.
She calls it languaging languaging.So important because once the words are out there, you can't take them back.So the way she languages boundaries is she would say Gerardo, it's okay for you to be passionate in a meeting.It's okay for you to State your case in a very strong, you know, emotional way.
It's not okay for you to dump your fist.The table and it is not okay for you to talk across other team members.So let's be really clear on what the boundaries are here, you know.So so boundaries is the first one.And if we have those conversations in advance where I can say Gerardo, who were just about to go off, in this, this Mission or this activity, it's we're going into covid-19.
So we were really tough period.I'm going to say these things upfront because I'd rather have a confident conversation with you now and get any pushback.Now, rather than having to pull you to one side, because you've committed the crime, let's let's have this conversation before we've committed.Of the crime, here's what the boundaries are going to be, you know, and then lay those out.
So so boundaries are is reliability.So do what you say you're going to do a is a count of is accountability and that is take, take ownership V is V.
So V A ult.And that is make sure that Don't use what I tell you Hugh about Gerardo or about anything as currency to try and gain affirmation with another team member.
Mmm often happens.So often happens.I is integrity choose courage over comfort.And is non judgement.So our unconscious bias gets in the way hugely there because of already formed an opinion about somebody.
But go stay at a judgment and GE GE is generosity.So going to every conversation with a generous curious mindset, as opposed to a, you know, you're an asshole mindset and if you I think so, if I was working with a practice that had a lot of - conflict, I would go to braving and I would say, where are we?
Where are we doing well?Well, where are we struggling?I'd put a B on one piece of butcher paper.Are another piece of butcher paper.I'd explain what each letter meant.I would then go to get people, to go to one of those and have a conversation in pairs, work.Their way around the room in pairs, and come up with examples of where we're good at boundaries and we're we're not very good at boundaries and then I'd share those at a plenary level.
And say, okay, let's start a plan of attack.Let's, let's pick one a week, once a month and let's focus.By the time we've done all seven, you know will be in July and will be will have covered all of them and you watch the conflict start to fall away so it's not up.
There's no there's no quick fix or short tube trick.It's um it's about making sure those relationships and the trust is there so that you can safely have those conversations.That's what I'm yeah, look what I'm hearing.Yeah, look, I quick story.I was working with one of the large Supermarket chains.
I used to be a director at Aldi Foods.It wasn't wasn't a Cole's.It doesn't matter of it, and it was one region.And one of the store managers had a sort of one of the this region has 11 supermarkets, right?So, so a supermarkets big, it's 300 staff, two and a half thousand customers a day, 50 million turnover, like they're big operations, One supermarket.
So, an area manager has 11 of them.And so with 11 stores they were they hated each other.Like they were, they were jostling for team members, they were Poaching, individual Bakery managers and and Deli managers.
Like it was just awful and the culture was toxic.He got posted in, he did nothing for two months, except just observe though he would wander around the shops and he would just look in and just get a bit of sense as to what the numbers who was trading profitably, who is struggling, I said stuff.And the other two months, got them all together and took him on Tough Mudder.
Now this is what happened on top of mother.And I this is this is this is sort of building teamwork on which is why we talk about team building, exercises are powerful.If you get it right, you get it wrong.They can be terrible.Private Brown.My very first story.I've got it wrong.Terribly.
So there's that, there's to store managers who hate each other and one stuck in the mud pit.I haven't done Tough Mudder, but I understand there's a mud pit.You got to call.You probably don't Dorado this.You got to crawl.Your way out of.And so the little guy that little store manager he reaches down and pulls his big guy out of the mud.
And it takes ages to get this guy out of the mud and they finally get him out of here.Few other team members have to come back and they form a human chain.They get this guy out of the mud pit.They've been best of made sense.So the tension that existed between them?
It was really quite superficial.It was founded, not the it.Wasn't the, the conflict wasn't the problem.The decider, the issue at hand.The conflict was coming from the fact that they didn't like each other, because for some reason, they felt like that, it was sort of some agenda going on.
Once they've got rid of that agenda, the conflict was still there.They still disagreed about stuff but never became an issue.Hi, I actually had a photo like this yesterday.I read for a surf in the morning with a lovely, lovely, lovely morning and there was a Bit of a disagreement between two other surface.
I went really, we've got really ugly.I thought they were gonna start punching each other, typical surface, tough.One dropped in another era are swearing and you this.And I had a moment where I said they're watching these guys are they were actually so similar.I actually thought, you know what, you guys would probably be basic rights.Yeah, so very good similar stuff that but I actually think that you can be best if you just got to know each other.
Yeah it's exactly right.We talked about the iceberg Theory, you know, the tip of the iceberg is the part.You can see and beneath the waterline is all this other stuff, you know, in people's lives.They've seen so much and they've had such different upbringings and different experiences, and different thresholds for stress and different fears and anxieties.
And, you know, and you got to get beneath the waterline to see what's really got.I always said, I, you could never you can never lead a soldier and You really understand what's got what's going on in their life because you have to be a chameleon.No, there's no one-size-fits-all and I think once you sort of reveal a little bit about yourself, they reveal a bit about themselves.
You don't have to go do Tough Mudder, you can just share a story about yourself and we do it on crystal has where the first night we go around I probably shouldn't say too much in case people listen to this podcast, we're going on Christmas but we do an exercise and and it builds Rapport, you know, People go.
Well didn't know that about you know didn't know that about you and all of a sudden there's a level of trust there that on the face of, it's quite superficial.But the reality is, it's a building block.Hmm, and trust is like that glue, you know, you can have it's like the mortar between bricks, you can have amazing solid bricks that build a practice of all the people and all of the equipment and everything else goes into these brick wall or separate bricks.
But if you don't have a mortar between them, you know, that glue that binds people which is that level of Connection that exists.Yeah, when Aldi was do, when Aldi first opened in Australia?I was one of their first team members and I was a director and the five directors.
And I used to drive across Sydney, to have coffee with the other directors in the morning and then drive all the way back in peak hour to get back to my first appointment and I used to think was the biggest waste of time.But I don't, I knew all this stuff you know, from my military days but it didn't dawn on me.
What This is what the group managing director was doing and he just wanted us bonding and we sat there and had coffee for 20 minutes and on the face of it, what a stupid waste of time and not very environmental.The reality of it was incredibly powerful and those relationships are still strong 20 years later.
I find that social media is actually really good for that because it is hard to especially for got a big hospital in a big team to actually connect with everybody in the team on a more personal level.Well, can can be really challenging.There's the B team members that you are trying to, you know, them because you sort of just walk past each other twice a week, on shift change over social media for.
That's actually really good because you do get that insight into people's lives.So now, we're friends on Facebook and I walking in the morning, and I said, morning, Paul, I saw that your daughter did that on the weekend?How is that?
Or there's a risk.Absolutely.I it's always a conversation.I think that's yeah that's right.If just as long as you have the conversation otherwise it's not that good but yeah what what?Hey, what hey like it like by Paul I saw you did that on the weekend with your daughter?Looks really great.What was it like?
Like I think it's the connection that happens when we have that conversation as opposed to just reading it about what you did but I think your point and it's super it's so important now.I mean it's part of life, isn't it?It's I had dinner with this woman.The other night is headmistress of this school and she was telling me that they've got a girl in your R12 so young woman in year 12, who a couple of weeks ago, so she's practicing for the HSC run practicing, she's doing the HSC, 55 hours on social media in one week.
Yeah, it's limited.It's kind of it's a balancing act.How many hours are in a week now?Just like, is it says, it says, it's a full-time job was like, I don't know math, you've talked to numerous times about you mentioned Lincoln in the Programs that you guys, rung.
Can you give the listeners who, like, because thinking is, is quite well known around Australia?Did you give the our International is a bit of a rundown as to what I'm Thinkin does for veterinary practices and Veterinary teams around Australia or internationally as opposed to?
Yeah.Well Lincoln only works now with with veterinary, hospitals, doesn't work, doesn't have any other clients outside Veterinary.I may be one orthodontist who's lovely, but she's been on the program for three years.Now we have a we have All levels of training.Most senior level is a three-year program.
It's a longitudinal program because it has to be it's from a cash flow point of view.It works and also for the client but it also works in terms of getting that sort of upskilling coaching on the job back.More skills coaching on the job back more skills so you have to do it over over a long period of time getting together.
Once every six months Chrysalis intensive forth for days.That's a junior.Is it so that's all I website.The next level down is emerging leaders, which is the whole team, so they get to listen to me like this.So that's emerging leaders and there's a lot of practice to do that.
And then the last one is Leading Edge, which is online.Probably the best one for international students or International clients Leading Edge.I do not.I do not understand why practice would not be doing Leading Edge.It's 52 video modules.Each one goes for 15 to 20 minutes.
It's delivered by I seven, doctors, seven veterinarians.The sort of do is we teach a handful each for quiz.Questions at the end to make sure you've watched the video full accountability for the practice owner, it's really cheap.I was talking to a practice only the other day.
She's gone from, she's gone.It's 250 bucks a month.I think 45 vets to the program.It's 50 bucks per bit per month.It's like nothing.And they have increased their turnover by over 100,000 dollars in the Three months.They've been doing the program.
It's a 58 ft e.Well like it's just a total no-brainer but IT addresses.Those things that Veterinary Schools don't teach over working quite closely with the University of Queensland order to get it in.Now I'm working with the senior leaders of uq and and and our plan is to get into they want to continue to they want to start this Leading Edge so it's an online delivery platform.
So you don't have to travel.It's fantastic and the guys that deliver that aside.So passionate about helping the industry, so that's what Lincoln does.It's, that's a such a valuable thing even all the way up to the, to the full package, when I listen to talk and workshops like this.
I there's so much that you'd that I listen to as a leader going.Yeah, I should do that.I should do that actually do that.But it is, as you said earlier, it is that doing and the reality is that most of us, I certainly don't have all the skills to do all of this effectively all the time and having Nobody to defer to what was going to help you or say well why haven't you done that?
It, we talked about it but I think it's invaluable and if you know I think I see my wife gets damaged is why do you call the leadership training coming?And I said because it's what it is and she said but no one knows what leadership is and I said It's probably true, you know like there's this massive unconscious incompetence people can't put their finger on why team members don't do what they're meant to do or why as an owner of a practice do, I always seem to be the one that can only get it to can only do it properly?
And and the answer is all leadership, but but it's sort of you mentioned earlier, jarosz, soft skills.I mean, they are so not soft like from being front line, Infantry.Under they're not soft.These are the skills that bring people home alive.
Anyone can find a weapon, it's it's not firing the weapon, it's having your mindset, right?So when you pull the trigger, you can do what you're told when you're told and and think for yourself when you can't hear anything because it's so loud.You can't possibly hear anything.
And having that flexibility of mindset, the agility to be able to change, and the resilience to keep going.All of those things are just, these are unbelievably hard.Please the difference.I mean, a lot of people talk about the fact that emotional intelligence represents about 80% of your performance.I totally agree with that.
Mmm.Oh yeah, you can be really smart, but incapable of actually delivering any result.And you can be not that smart and just get a lot of stuff done, you know?You can even become the president around State still, okay?
Thank you for listening to go and check out the show notes at the.com.And if you like, what you heard, don't your friends and subscribe to the podcast, wherever you listening.

Paul Ainsworth