Feb. 1, 2020

#22: Be a mentor, be a boss, with Dr. Dan Markwalder

#22: Be a mentor, be a boss, with Dr. Dan Markwalder
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 1

We were introduced to Dr. Dan Markwalder when we interviewed to Dr. Cody Creelman, who kept referring to him as one of the best mentors out there. Seeing as we’re all about mentoring here we knew that we had to have him on the show, and Dr. Dan certainly has the experience to make him an absolute mentoring guru:

He founded his first hospital at age 28, and has grown that business into an eighteen practice success story with the help of good partnerships and through fantastic mentoring relationships. He still practices in the clinics that he owns, and he is still passionate about mentoring veterinarians of all ages in all aspects of their careers. Dan speaks throughout the United States to veterinarians and practice managers on the importance of developing a culture of mentoring at a practice level, and frequently lectures to both SCVMA and VBMA chapters at numerous veterinary colleges throughout the United States. 

He also the Mark in Markroy Consulting - a consulting service that offers coaching and workshops on aspects of practice management like leaderships skills, bridging generational gaps the practice, and team culture. Dan’s most recent venture, Vet Mentor Solutions, aims to share the mentoring model that has been so instrumental in assisting many new graduate veterinarians to achieve their individual goals, as well as help them in raising their personal production, with the greater global veterinary community though an on-line mentoring platform (vetmentorsolutions.com) 

Dan’s insights in this interview on what mentoring actually means, and how we can, and should, apply it in our own workplaces has given me a lot to think about in my own workplace. And if you’ve ever wondered about whether you should consider practice ownership you really need to hear what Dan has to say on the topic. He discusses topics like choosing your business partner, setting the culture of your practice, what it looks like to be a good practice owner, and much much more.

 

To see the show notes or to check out our guests’ favourite books, podcasts and everything else we talk about in the show, click on the webpage link on the episode page wherever you listen to us, or visit the podcast website at https://thevetvault.com/.

If you have a question that you’d like us to answer with the help of our guests you can leave us a voice message by going to our episode page on the anchor app (https://anchor.fm) and hitting the record button, via email at thevetvaultpodcast@gmail.com, or just catch up with us on instagram. (https://www.instagram.com/thevetvault/) We’d love to hear from you!

And if you like what you hear, then please help us to spread the word by subscribing to the podcast (it’s free!), and by telling your friends about us. 

So when I when I applied for my first year job you were required.One of the test was do you you had to be able to do a splenectomy a C-section and a gdv and had never done.I'd been out maybe a year and a half never done a GTB in my life.
So I have to lied because I needed to get the job and of course two days here.I am I'm by myself GDB walks in they had to call the one of the attendees and our response was I thought you said you you know how to do a GDB but still remember that I remember when I was providing clinical advice we get phone calls from around Australia about providing clear advice and I never done a deed of you myself, but I understood the theory and this poor guy in middle of Midwestern New South Wales and the country rang up and he was anxious and sort of Uncertain and I talked to him through her door gev, and I never told him they never done them.
If you just need you to be calm and confident voice a little sideline, I'm like, okay, so what you see here now and like I'm visualizing this because I've never seen before myself.So but when well and yeah, so you do did you realize I am recording to right?
Oh my God, what's going on with my computer I guess are so again.Good evening.Ladies and gentlemen, this is Gerardo Poli. and this sorry one of the best bits of advice I've ever received was to find good mentors and to learn from them trusted people who have already done what you're trying to do.
Now.I've been fortunate throughout my career to have some fantastic mentors to help guide me, but I realize that they'd be hard to find and also hard to commit the time to 1.This is why we've gathered some of the best Minds from the vet new world and squeeze them for their wisdom so that you don't have to learn the hard way.
With the help of our guests, we flipped the veterinary profession on its back and explore its soft underbelly to find the tips tools and inspiration that you'll need to build the career that you've always wanted.I'm Gerardo Poli.I'm Hubert him strapped and this is the vent valve.Welcome to another episode of the vid felt.
We hope that the new year has started off.Well for everybody Gerardo what's happening with your New Year 2020 is actually start with the bang include amount of work and effort has gone into launching a new brand that Alex and I started which is called vet success academies to keep an eye out for that and also both of us have been working the background with regards to supporting veterinarians and the wildlife that have been infected by the bush fires and about the launch and Almost around the world traveling trip going to states to Dubai and also to Philippines talking on topics like emergency and so forth.
So and then we got heaps of guests lined up.Don't be don't be Hubert.Yeah, we do.I saw you going to America.That's that you sort of sprung that on me.You can just do that.What are you doing?What are you doing?My bad?That's why I would say that's why I said that we should do to podcast right now because I'll be gone for a month.
You can't surprise me like that.I planned my ear that I see on social media that you pressing of tumeric is I'm yeah, we certainly do have a some exciting guests planned.I'm very excited for this episode.It's a big things coming for the podcast this year as well.I hope which brings me to our guest for today.
We tell us about it, please we were introduced to dr.Dan Mark all the when we interviewed.Dr. Cody Kremlin the cow vet who kept referring to him as one of his best mentors.They're seen as R all about mentoring here.We all knew that we need to have him on the show.
And dr.Dan certainly has the experience to make him an absolute mentoring Guru.He founded his first hospital the age of 28 and has grown that business into an 18 practice success story with the help of good Partnerships and through fantastic mentoring relationships.
He still practices in the clinics that he owns and he is passionate about mentoring.Denarian saal of all ages and in all aspects of their careers Dan speaks throughout the United States and veterinarians and practice managers on the importance of developing a culture of mentoring at a practice level and frequently lectures at numerous universities around the states.
He is also the mark in Mark Roy Consulting a Consulting service that offers coaching workshops on aspects of practice management like leadership skills bridging generational gaps in practice and team ciao That's most recent Venture with Mentos Solutions.
Aims to share the mentoring model that has been so instrumental in assisting many new graduate veterinarians in their hospitals to achieve their individual goals as well as help them in raising their personal production with the greater veteran Community through an online mentoring platform will put the links to that in the show and you have to go check it out Dan's insights in this interview on what mentoring actually means and how we can and should applied in our own workplaces as given me.
Personally a lot to think about in my own workplace.And if you've ever wondered about whether you should consider practice ownership, or if you are a practice owner, you really do need to hear what dr.Dan has to say on the topic.It discusses topics, like choosing your business partner setting the culture of your practice what it looks like to be a good practice owner and much much more.
So, please enjoy.Dr. Dan Mark Mulder.Dr. Dan Buckwalter, welcome to the vet felt.Thank you very much for joining us.We are honored to have you well, thanks so much for having me.I'll start first off with with how we came across your we interviewed.
Dr. Cody.Dr. Cody creelman who is a friend of yours, or I think I'm more of a mentee of yours and he kept name-dropping your name and one of the things he said about you is he said that he has this friend that whenever he meets somebody.
He asked them.Who are you mentoring at the moment?And that was that was obviously you and I knew immediately that we that sounds like somebody that we had to chat to on our podcast and what if I'm going to lead that straight into a question and ask you why is mentoring so important to you and and more than mentoring why is being a mentor so important to you?
I think we all know why we why the young Reds or why all of us need mentors, but why do you think it's important?oughtn't to be a mentor You know, I think as somebody who's been involved in very medicine.I started working at my first practice at age 15.
I went from delivering afternoon newspapers to work in at my first veterinary hospital and I'll never forget the guy I work for a single practitioner.He's 83 years old still practicing to this day.Just gave up surgery believe it or not last year and He was really the first Mentor I ever had and it's Ron requirement was if you hold a dog and I'm working on them and I get bit just walk out the door.
That was my first mentoring experience, by the way, and I spent all my years through high school and all my years through undergraduate and the Summers that I had off during Veterinary Schools working for him and he just really showed me the love affair that he And that I that I caught with their a medicine and it really instilled in him to me the responsibility that we have to Mentor other individuals.
And so from the time I started my first Veterinary practice back in 1994 to this day.It's something that has just been part of my DNA.I love mentoring young doctors and it's part of a culture of my organization and it's a passion that that I have and every opportunity that I have whatever format it.
Maybe I talked about the importance of mentorship and we all know that it's the big the big topic today.So many young veterinarians want it you're so much about it good and bad.But so it's a passion that I very much have and and every time I have a platform I talk about it.
Well, I love it that that passion started.Way back before you even sort of, you know, really kind of kicked into your own career.But and then the thing which is really powerful about is the fact Ukraine a culture around mentoring.
And what would what do you think then I suppose would be some prerequisites around like a culture of mentoring like if you if you could answer that like, is there a program or a structure you put in place to support the Vets stepping up so then they then learn how to be proper mentors themselves.
Sore I think for me foundationally.The importance of mentorship is time and Trust time and Trust in what I always tell people is if you don't have a commitment of time towards being a good Mentor then don't even start it.
I always say what a kids how to kids spell love tiime its time and it takes time to build trust and so foundational to a mentorship.Is a relationship the most important asset that each one of us has is our time right?
And how do we spend that time?And so really if you want to develop a culture of mentorship it has to start with the leaders of that organization and so many years ago.When I started my practice I said from day one we're going to have a commitment to mentorship and that's not just for our veterinarians.
That's for every every aspect every Individual who's in our organization and so for me mentorship is part of the culture what drives the culture it's real elite leadership, right?And what is the culture really if you start at step one what's culture?
It's the thoughts and the attitude so it has to start with the leaders of that practice.And so I'm always asking that question you're either in a mentoring relationship.You're either a acting as a mentor or as a mentee in that has been something that from the get-go when we started our Innovation that's been really the basis of who we are and what we want to do.
Do you feel that actually having that you talked about having that culture of mentoring and how its Woods action behaviors that it kind of put the responsibility of them at the start that they had to almost like role model the way moving forward.
Like if you want to stay in someone has Asian you wrote you learn off the role models, but then sooner or later you're going to become a role model.So there's this expectation that you you know exhibit the core values that you believe in the core values and you know, What if it comes out, you know, whether or not your thoughts in your head in your the words that you speak of the actions that you make you have to role model the way and is it is it is it helped in terms of kind of really have veterinarians in your organization that kind of stick and stay along and stay in a part of like just I don't know become part of long-term Furniture almost in a way.
I think the role model is absolutely foundational to mentorship.But the question that you have to ask if you want to be in a mentoring relationship, what is it that you want to have modeled and I think particularly nowadays mentorship has changed and I think that to me is one of the one of the messages I like to get out mentoring today has radically changed the example I use is Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga.
Right, Tony Bennett 97 years of age of a generation.I can remember growing up having my grandmother.Listen to Tony Bennett.I Left My Heart in San Francisco.And here's Tony Bennett in a mentoring relationship with Lady Gaga.
I love that because the mentor today is as much an intern as he or she is a mentor.What do I mean by that?They're learning from their mentee.So mentorship today is very much a two-way.Street and I learn as much from my new graduate veterinarians is to hopefully they learn from me there a role model for me and hopefully I'm a role model for them.
I think when you have that kind of view towards mentorship to me, that's what creates that stickiness and builds that relationship bills that trust which again is so foundational to a mentoring relationship.Did you mention time as as one of the key components to that relationship which can be a challenge in which early science in general many practices.
It's busy.Everybody's busy even though even the leaders often busy.How do you guys deal with it?Do you do allocate specific time for mentoring or what?What's your strategy to to making that possible to allocate that time?Yes.
I think I think you have to have a formal and an informal.Part of mentoring and so a couple things that we've done throughout the years one is we used to take some of our most senior doctors doctors that have been out 10 plus years and have them Mentor for instance new graduate veterinarians.
And what we found was to help develop that initial relationship is we've taken some of our younger doctors that have found maybe two three four years and they are Frontline mentors to our new graduate.
Venerians what we require is they are working together virtually 80 90 percent of the time and then will formally have them meet at minimum of once or twice a week.So will typically have them go out for an hour-and-a-half two-hour lunch twice a week.
I'll go through cases.They'll have very formal three months six months nine month 12-month goals and those goals are individualized based on the wants needs and desires of those new.Americans but what we found was is the what we call the mentoring moments or some of the most precious when we metric this after a year.
What we find is those mentoring moments.Those are those informal moments could be 30 seconds.It could be a 60 60 second conversation that this new graduate veterinarian has with their with their Mentor.It may be coming out of an exam room talking with them going over a case going over differential diagnosis those types of things.
So I think you have to have a formal and an informal but you also have to have a layer of accountability.So one of the things that we will do is we will actually have a mentorship contract so that each parties understand what their commitment is right when you have a commitment thing is that when you sign a contract maybe you sign a mortgage a bank note.
What does that say stipulate?It stipulates what your responsibility and your role will be and the responsibility of for instance.Whoever the other party might.He's so you sign that contract and it just gives an additional layer of I think of accountability.
Now, one of the things that we've realized is that again mentorship is so much based on a relationship and sometimes it clicks.Sometimes it does and so you also have to have that layer of flexibility to say that if that relationship is just not developing can there be off ramps as far as that goes?
So those are some of the things that we do in our mentorship I love the whole the the structure around because I suppose you know, if they communicating on a day-to-day basis, but then they had those check-ins which bit more formal and structured around how they're progressing towards their goals and where they need structured support from and so forth.
The combination of the two really is like someone there when they need them and then someone there the help them with their career progression and keep them on track.I think what happens many times.Do you go back to your question is what do you do when a busy practice particularly in the state is what we have is a lot of veterinarians are on production-based income.
They're busy.And so they may see they even though you may have the desire.I want to be a mentor of the reality is this I need to produce if I'm not seeing if x amount of cases.So there is that tension involved with a veterinarian is very busy a very busy caseload.
And if they're taking the time out of their busy day that can affect their production.That's just the reality check.So one of the things that we will do is we will say this.Okay new graduate veterinarian.They're going to be in surgery.We will assign them a manager who comes along with them helps them do surgery.
But guess what?We will pay them to Mentor that individual so their production is not affected.Now, some people may look at that and say well we just don't have the financial wherewithal.Do that at my response is you don't have the financial wherewithal not to do that.
We have a responsibility to show a new graduate veterinarian how to become a high-performing a high producing doctor.It breaks.My heart that we have new graduate veterinarians who are not paid at the compensation that they should be paid.
We have a responsibility to show them how to become a high producing veterinarian and I think one of the ways you do that is you take Take some of your high producing your high-performing veterinarians.You still compensate them but come alongside these younger veterinarians and show them the techniques be it's surgical medical ultrasonography those types of things.
So that's one of the things that will do as well.That's excellent.That's really useful.They are they coming up it folds when it sounds like you'll Meto start being made those at a fairly early on in their career are the common mistakes that you see them make in mentoring role that that that you think are best avoided I think some of the pitfalls that we will see as first is a relationship if it clicks for it doesn't click and again, you have to have you have to have off ramps if that'll happen.
The reality is not all of us get along with other individuals.It's just a rift relationship and again foundational to mentorship is a relationship.So what do you do if the relationship is not working?So you have to have you have to have some some ass?
Back to deal with that.I think the other things would be if you're connecting somebody who doesn't have the same wants needs and desires.So for instance, let's say you have somebody who is a new graduate veterinarian and they don't have a strong interest in surgery.
If you align them with somebody who love surgery probably isn't going to work.So alignment is very important.So what is that spaced on is you need to sit down with that new graduate veterinarian?And for that new veterinarian and say what are your goals?
Where do you see yourself?What are your passions and veterinary medicine?What Niche do you want to fill and make sure that you have a mentor who can help that individual who's also passionate with the things that that new graduate veterinarian is passionate as well.
If not, it's going to be difficult to develop that mentoring relationship one of things that we tell new graduate veterinarians is it takes minimum 18 To 24 months to get you a confident High producing doctor.
So this is really a one-and-a-half to two year commitment.And so one of the things that we have to do early on is again recognize what are the goals for that individual one of the things that I will ask a new graduate veterinarians, what does mentorship look like for you?
This is one of the things that I talk about when I speak throughout many veterinary colleges What does mentorship look like for you that that word is thrown around so much today.The reality is mentorship could be very different in one organization from another organization mentorship in one organization might be your credit here in a three or four week mentoring relationship.
Or maybe it's going to be nothing more than videos and text books and those types of things.So what does mentorship look like?What are your goals?I say this a lot to new graduate of veterinarians.You should be able to articulate what your 3 6 9 12 month goals are and so for us mentorship is very much an individual.
It's not a cookie cutter approach what works for one individuals not going to work for another individual.We just wrote at that hospital about a year ago writing formal structure called the individual individual independent development review and plans and it's it's around that it's around kind of what are they want to achieve and then Then kind of articulate articulating their goals clearly but also real goals that are actually measurable.
And so instead of go.I'd like to feel more comfortable in the consultation room.It's like well, how can you measure that because they actually could be feeling a lot more comfortable the consultation room, but then they may actually not realize it because they're waiting for a feeling to occur or something like that.
So but having yeah, I totally agree down with what you're saying that having a structured program with clear. particular goals that are individual to that that person is really important and it's made a dramatic difference for us in terms of would you say career reward like I suppose, you know our senior bets now feel like as if they now have an impact on other veterinarians on the veterinarian to come through and see the impact of their contributions and it's at this adds other this extra layer of of I suppose yeah, just meaning to their career now instead of just them being Emergency Veterinary ins.
So yeah a lot of everything you're saying.It's incredible.It's really cool.Well, here's here's a perfect example.We know that for instance for many new graduate veterinarians.They struggle with time management and confidence right in so one of the things that we will do is we will put video recorders in the exam room and we'll go ahead and record we do this with all of our doctor or so.
It's not just we're just we're just doing this with new graduate veterinarians Des.We don't want them to feel that they're just being singled out for this but we'll show them in this has been an incredible tool to help build their confidence because you know, and I know about 85 percent of communication is nonverbal.
So let me give you an example.I had a And who is really struggling with owner compliance?And he knew it the metric showed it so one of the things we did is we had him video and something as simple as what he was doing during the exams as he was sitting on the table behind him and it showed him he was slacking.
It showed his nonverbal and it had a powerful impact on this veterinarian something as simple as that.And so what we have to do is we have to have to Tools in our toolbox, and so ultimately at the end the day mentorship is don't get comfortable.
What are one tool may work with one new graduate may not work with another one and so a mentoring moment a 30-second mentary moment and they work with one may not work with the other and so you need to be able to be adaptable in your mentorship relationship.I think that's absolutely critically important as well again foundational is relationship, but add tools to that full box.
So for instance, I'm an older gentleman.I'm in my I'm 55 years old social media does not come normal to me.I still struggle with doing a selfie with the reasons.I'm on Instagram and I do social media because that is a great way to be able to communicate with younger veterinarians.
So my point is this as a mentor if you're going to have met or somebody find out best ways to communicate with that individual and that means adding more Tools in your toolbox.Hopefully that makes sense.That's a that's a question I had for later on when we come to actual practice management.
How do you communicate with your with your team?Because you have a it's a big group of clinics.How many how many clinics at the moment have a DUI you a part owner of I have 18 hospitals 18.So how do you maintain communication with a team like that over so many sites?
Yeah, I think everybody's individual email is still probably the predominant way that I will communicate but I've also learned that texting me get it becomes very important as well.Particularly some people they're not going to respond to an email for days.
So it's texting I still love a lot of face time.So I have the way that our organization will work as I have even though I'm involved in 18 hospitals.I am involved with the what we each of our hospitals will have a managing partner and I spent a lot of my time with the managing Partners.
I don't get to Mentor a lot of new graduate veterinarians anymore.What I do is a lot of my mentoring relationship are individuals that have been out of veterinary school for at least one to two years and we're moving them into a partnership.So that time I get a veterinarian they've been out again one to two years and then I'm starting to build into them and mentor.
Them on the business practice management leadership development and that's usually a one to two year mentoring relationship at which at the end of that.They're ready for practice partnership practice ownership.
So a lot of my communication could be one-on-one.It could be through texting email.I try to spend as much time as I possibly can know with my mentees.Usually it's going to be a minimum of a three to four hour.It meant each and every week.
I had I had a talk the other day that actually does a bunch of maybe way but a talk about Millennials everybody likes to talk about Millennials and that and they preferred means of communication and it actually showed that text still get the highest response rate to any means of communication including Facebook and everything else.
If you see in the text people that people still don't ignore text or say which I thought was an interesting one because we've tried all sorts of apps You know group Jets and things like that, but then you have individuals who just don't want to they just don't want to respond.But I send somebody a text and they always get back to me at it that different spectral the same with my children.
It's true.If you want a quick response texting is certainly the way to way to go then we have a lot of people and a lot of listeners who consider practice management practice ownership and things like that.Is there a a like what was your transition?
Like did you did you purchase into or became a partner of the first hospital that you're in or did you create your own hospital or I'm like, how did you was all transition into practice ownership?Yeah.So when I when I became a new graduate veterinarian still the model was you went to work for a veterinarian typically work for that individual for a couple of years.
And then the expectation would be to become a And that was very much how I thought I would cut my teeth.And so when I graduated went worked at my first small animal practice and after about a year year and a half you think I would have done my homework.
This individual could never have a partner in the expectation will hey, I would be the first partner the reality was that was not going to happen.And so I had to make a decision in that was either to stay at that practice.We love the area was newly married.
Married, it just bought our first house life was good.And so I had to make a decision was I going to stay there?The reality is probably would not become a partner on the flipside of that.I could disrupt myself and go ahead and find a practice or start a practice and so here I was newly married every still can remember this I came home and I said honey.
I'm going to I'm going to resign and my wife is not a Change agent at all and but got a lover.She she supported me and so we resigned she resigned her position as a nurse and we sold our house believe it or not to a another veterinarian and we decided to move out of the state around the Chicago area and we started looking for practice is the reality was we're probably not going to be able to buy a practice.
So we started our first practice.Practice and the suburbs of Chicago was a little leasehold space was 1,200 square feet to exam rooms and believe it or not.I started my first practice with about 40,000 US Dollars and I went to 28 banks in 28 Banks said no now I didn't have a lot of debt but I didn't have a lot of assets and the scariest day of my life.
I had to go to my grandmother who was a Product of the depression and I said Grandma would you borrow me $40,000 in she literally had CDs under you hear about these stories under the mattress of her bed.And you know for her $40,000 was 10 million dollars to you and me and so was I always say it was the most difficult loan I ever had in my life and it was the happiest day of my life was paying off that loan, but I started my first practice I was a again.
Still a little leasehold space 1200 square foot.I could not afford to buy or to have employees.So is myself my mother and my wife because I didn't have to pay my mom or my wife and I'll never forget because we started in March of 1994 and two weeks later.
It was a Friday and I would get to work at 7 a.m.And work till 7 p.m.So it's a 12-hour shift and I want you to think about this 12-hour shift and I old one bag of food still remember it was Hills WD $1.60.
So I probably made about two dollars and I remember coming home.Now again, we had highly disrupted Our Lives we move from great place in Indiana to a one-bedroom apartment.Here.We are in the suburbs, but all of the money that we had into this practice and after 12 hours sold one bag of food, and I came home to my wife and I said, huh?
I don't think we're going to make it and I'll never forget what she said to me.She said I know how good of a veterinarian you are now go out and show the world and we never look back and six months later things popped and we were growing three to four hundred new clients a month and we tapped into something special and I'll never forget when we broke our first 1 million dollars in Gross.
I thought I was the the richest man in the world.And and it was it's been a great great wonderful Journey.So how old were you sorry?I don't know if I 20 28 years old when I started my first practice, let's say yeah, and I knew very little on medicine and they knew nothing about leadership or business.
I barely knew what a commercial checking account was but so I made every conceivable mistake you possibly can think about but but as I always tell individuals you learn a lot by failing For sure and my success and in part is because I have failed multiple multiple times.
It takes it takes a fair amount of courage to be to be willing to fight like that.They said there's a lot of people a lot of veterinarians and I for a long time I counted myself amongst them didn't really have any interest in ownership, but it just seemed to me and I think seems to seems too daunting to a lot of people go to especially that early in your career to go all I've got so much that I need to learn.
Clinically.I can't possibly face with the face up to the challenges of running a business as well.Why was it important to you?It sounds like right from the beginning that that was your that was your plan.Was that just the culture at the time or was that just always your personal goal?
I think I would go back to my my mentor who I started working for at age 15, and he really taught me that to be a practice owner is something that that I should Aspire for and so I knew even before veterinary school.
I wanted to be at least a partner or a or a practice owner.I pretty much knew that once I went to even before veterinary school, but for me, I think one of my passions is when I talk to Young veterinarians is don't give up because I think the pendulum has swung.
I was part of the culture growing up that practice ownership was pretty typical.I would say most of my classmates became Partners in a practice or owners and so for me I grew up in that and it seemed like the pendulum has swung the opposite direction or probably talk a little bit about some of the disruption and so forth and Veterinary ownership and so forth, but at least one of the things that I try to communicate with young veterinarians don't give up on ownership or partnership.
There's a lot of incredible advantages is it hard work?It is hard work, but if you look at the studies that are out there.Veterinarians who are owners have happier lives.They're more successful and others different definition of successful.
But one of those is this just the financial success that you can have.You can have work-life balance and be a practice owner some have the idea that if your practice owner you can't have work-life balance and I would say just the opposite practice ownership gives you a lot of freedoms.
Now is it To work absolutely gets hard work.But if you have good role models and good mentors in your life that can come alongside you and teach you practice ownership practice management all of those types of things.
Please don't give up on that as a possibility.Yeah, and I appreciate what you're saying there.I had this similar discussion with some just the other day about what got me into business ownership and what made me want to buy into a hospital and your wasn't necessarily around financial goals or anything like that booze was around the some of the Privileges and freedoms you get and privileges being the ability to have a say in the direction.
Of a hospital in to influence the culture and standards and so forth, but also the freedoms around sort of being able to select where I want my career to go to next and where I wanted to focus my efforts on and I saw myself that if I stayed as a veterinarian in the cold front, then that would be kind of just the limits of where my career could take me.
So that's why it's been the best decision I've ever made.The book will be one that I ruminated on for years, but ever since then it's created so many doors of opportunity and different avenues for interest and and for your continued professional development outside of just learning new clinical knowledge.
So I'm not human what it's like for you.Yeah.I say, I'm sorry.I don't regret it at all exactly as you say then it is it is hard work, but certainly a lot more.It's that autonomy.Either one of those three key drivers that they talked about that that make people happy and the one is autonomy.
Now, it doesn't mean you can't have autonomy in a in an employed job if you have the right leadership team, but certainly the tiny be I got through practice ownership has been a lot for me and and being in charge of your own time making decisions to a larger group at your own time what has been very valuable to me and I would say I would say one of the things that I'm passionate about as well.
When I think this is is something that's a subset of ownership as partnership and I think particularly today in the environment that we find ourselves in because the reality is it is harder to become a practice owner today.We know that goodbye your practice today particularly.
It has a certain dollar revenue or certain number of doctors.It becomes much more difficult to purchase those practice because you have other competing interest and so one of the things that that I could I talk about is the There's something about the Synergy of a partnership.
I've been fortunate of all my years of ownership.I've had a partner virtually 23 years of my 26 years of partner practice ownership and I love having partners because Partners just add an additional Dimension that you would not have potentially as a solo owner.
And and I think I've I look at my own career.I've probably had a more of a fenny Affinity towards the business practice ownership and in so this is freed me up having partners.
It's freed me up to do the things that I certainly have found enjoyment in and that is creating.I love to create practice as by practice is taken to the next level.I've done start a practices.I've done ER practices.I've done tertiary care hospital you name it I've been able to do it.
But the reason I've been able to do that is because I've had Partners along the way and that's freed me up to do the things that I'm passionate about as well.So you mentioned some of the kind of stumbling blocks.To your story starting your own little practice from from scratch.
Is that still the possibility in this day and age?Is it something that people can do or is it doable should to do mainly look at becoming a partner in an established business such as your own that's a great question.I'm not going to say that that startups urgent what we call De novo's or for everybody.
I am a big fan of startup practices particularly in this given environment.The reality is that old older model of where you becoming a partner in the practice.The reality is it's much more difficult particularly if it's a multi doctor practice again because of some of the competing interests and so forth and these multiple rates or what they call the cap rates to purchase.
These are to become a partner can be an obstacle.And so one of the other avenues to look at is a start-up or a de novo and So I'm a big fan of it of my 18 hospitals.I've done 10 startups.
We're actually doing a start-up practice in the city of Chicago and one of the hottest areas Chicago and it's going to be a five-story 30,000 square-foot startup practice.We've been trying to get into this area the city for about five years and the individual who's going to be our managing partner.
That practice is a young veterinarian who's been out of Out for years and he's been in our Organization for two years.He could never have done this project by himself, but he's going to be a partner in this practice.And what's interesting with this guy as he has a is a strong interest in passion in real estate.
And so he's a great High producing high-performing veterinarian along with a strong passion of real estate.So it was just things came together and we're excited about this project as well.So I would definitely recommend Amend if you're a young veterinarian looking for ownership, and there may not be an opportunity out there to purchase a practice.
Look at look at a start-up.The nice thing with startups is they're not as expensive some people get fearful because they said well, I don't have a client base.I think location becomes very important.You have to find an area that there's a need desire.
I think increasingly particularly as we're starting to look at Small Animal Practice.There's so many different niches that you can fill.So what Niche do you want to fill so it really comes back to this if you want to be a practice on a why what's your why what's your mission?
What's your personal mission statement?Why do you want to be a practice owner for me the financial remunerations come secondary that is not in itself a good reason to become a Practice owner for me it was as you mention its autonomy.
I wanted to create something special.I wanted to be involved in that process.I wanted to have certain things.I could culture of mentorship the financial remunerations come later.It is going to be hard work.It does require a commitment of your time and your resources, but it's also an exciting process and I think the opportunities for veteran medicine The future looks so bright again.
I've been doing this since 1979 and the things that we're able to to do today are just exciting just exciting with Innovation.Just think of all the all the different things that were able to do and Veteran medicine that just didn't exist 10 15 20 years ago.
And what's great is pet ownership continues to be on the rise, right?We we talk about the Millennials.The good thing on Millennials is Pet ownership is going to it looks like it's as high if not higher than Boomers, we built very medalists and on let's face it female Boomers that's dramatically changing now and we have to understand what are the wants needs and desires for Millennials.
The good thing is they love their pets and they love veterinarians.They still look at veterinarians as the number one source for the well-being and care for their for their pet.So what Niche do you want to fill is a practice owner?That's what I Start with why do you want to be a practice owner?
And what Niche do you want to fill?Hmm?I'm going to a question Dan.Is it right to assume that out of your 18 practices that like all your partners are veterinarians.Are they or order?
The main person who's in charge of running the hospital with a be a veterinarian?Yeah, so are managing partners are all veterinarians.I think the key to your question is can you be a non veterinarian and be a practice owner?Absolutely me partnership.
There's I look at a partnership like a marriage and so finding that right partner doesn't necessarily mean that that individual has to be a veterinarian but that partnership is a commitment that is a commitment because there's going to be the The Valleys in a Mountaintop experiences, right and what really will test a partnership is when you have those Valley experiences and and so it starts with to me a partnership starts with you have to have a mission that you both agree on what are your core values?
What is it that you vote?What I call the non-negotiables what's going to be the DNA of your practice?That's the core values so you both have to have an agreement on what those our values are going to be because otherwise when The Valleys come in and you're trying to put a round in a square hole it's not going to work.
Alright, so I think you can be a non veterinarian to be a partner.Our model is such that it's different because we take young veterinarians who want to be practice owners, but they don't have the financial wherewithal to become a practice owner.
So we will bring them on as a full Equity partner and after they've gone through our mentorship.Program but I think the model would certainly allow for a non veterinarian.Would you would you feel because when we talking about productivity and profitability of hospitals and some you know veterinarians inherently, aren't you don't graduate with business degrees or you know degrees in business management or mbas and things like that common sense.
Sometimes even a true but you know like the There is this field is this feeling I don't know when that's in Australia or elsewhere as well that may be a shift towards having like a business administrator come through and run a practice right?
Because if they run through and they run through the numbers and they focus on keeping a practice sustainable, but my take is a lie still like for a Veterinary team to feel like as if they're working towards. helping and serving clients and their pets they kind of feel like as if there has to be leadership that kind of really still does have at the heart of it the the clients in the pets at heart as opposed to so as far as the question then comes down to in the end now that I'm talking through it is Could a business person who doesn't have the veterinary background nursing or veteran?
But all Veterinary really embody the the at the core what the veterinarian but nurses kind of feel is important.He gets a great question.I think for me there's three hats that she have to be able to wear as a partner or or as an owner of a Veterinary practice.
The first one is if you're a veterinarian you've got to be able to be the role model for the standard of care for your hospital.Right?So for me foundationally is going to be what level of care do you want for your hospital and I think particularly nowadays because there's there's different.
Holds out there.There are some models that are out there.They're going to be we're going to be high on preventive care, but maybe not so much on medical surgery.So what model of medicine do you want to have in your hospital?The second is leadership for me the difference between a successful practice in one at is just just there is going to be leadership.
And so you've got to be able to develop your leadership.Goals, and that means having a good Mentor developing leadership for me leadership is not necessarily you're born as a leader that you can you can develop as a leader.
What does that look like?Because for me leadership is foundational and third is the business Acumen look veterinarians by their training.There's some of the most intelligent people out there if you can get through veterinary school, you can learn the business.
Cumin, but that means having a commitment to learning the business Acumen.So you should be able to read a financial statement a balance sheet and income if PL you should be able to be able to have a conversation with Commercial Bank or those types of things.
But those are skills that you can learn but it's a commitment to learning those skills.So again to have a successful practice.It's the leadership.It's the medicine.And it's the business Acumen and that's foundational those pillars are foundational.
So ultimately if your passion is only the medicine and it's not the leadership and it's not the business and ownership may not be the right fit or if you still want to be an owner ultimately.Can you be an owner and not have a passion on the business?
I think you can but you've got to be able to have individuals around you that can fill that void to me.Yeah, absolutely have to be a strong leader and commitment to whatever your hospital is going to be committed towards as far as the whole of of care in medicine.
So so you say you need to develop your leadership through mentorship relationships now which is well and well and good in a clinic such as yours where there's a structured Pathway to partnership.But again what if you're in a situation you did too.
No a practice or it's a small practice or the current leadership team is not the correct leadership team.Where do you go to where did you go initially to develop your leadership skills.Yeah, so for me, it was very much trial and error.
So I'm a perfect example of somebody who when I started my first practice.I didn't know a whole lot about the business and I didn't even know a whole lot about leadership.So here's a bird example.I was 28 years old when I started my first practice and I still look like I was about 14 years of age.
So here I was owning my first practice and I look like Doogie Howser.I can still remember don't think rooms and the appliance going - the Doctor coming in.I am the doctor and the owner of the practice.And so one of the things that I remember that I did though is I went to a competitor of arm of mine a local veterinarian who had been practicing for about 3035 years and I actually went to him and I said look, would you be willing to meet with me once a week?
And just pour into me and he did and he became a strong Mentor.He showed me how to read financial statements how to manage staff all of those types of things.And so I recognized early on the importance of if I have a void, how am I going to fill that void?
So I went out and found myself a mentor.The other thing I did is I had a client early on in my practice who came in and he was just one of these clients who just had a lot of business.S Acumen we developed a relationship.He had been in the corporate world and then he went ahead and started a small business and we just hit it off and we clicked and I remember going to him and saying hey, would you be willing to meet with me periodically and just teach me about business because the key here is this leadership and business is not just specific to veterinary medicine.
Feel free to go outside of your field and Find a mentor who can help you and Leadership skills who can help you develop business Acumen.You don't have to have somebody just within the veterinary field.If anything.My encouragement is go outside of the veterinary field leadership is beyond just the veterinary profession.
So I think finding that right Mentor but that means going out and finding that Mentor you I think that's absolutely critical one of the things one of the projects were doing in 2020.Through marcroy is is coming alongside veterinarians that are ready for practice ownership and having a layer of accountability.
And one of that is they have to find themselves a mentor who's going to come alongside them and teach them the leadership in the business Acumen that that took a lot of self-awareness of you back then to realize I suck at the side.
I need help and the and then a lot of guts to do.Do the great painters?I think I think my motivation was I had very little money and I couldn't afford to fail because my note to my grandmother would have come due to and so I think I was probably scared to death.I'm still just trying to picture what it's like to employ your own mother.
How can you how do you tell your mom what you do it?I tell you a quick story.So my mom of course being a mom.You know, I always had to be the nice guy.And so I when somebody couldn't pay their bill, I couldn't be the guy who who could demand payment and one of the things we did early on as I said Mom.
No one could know that you're my mom.You just have to be an employee and it was the first time in my life.I call my mom by her first met her.First name.I'll never forget that we had we had a client who couldn't pay his bill and of course my mom took it personal and and came down on that.
Client I'm like Mom you can't do that.You can't do that believe it or not.She just retired about a year ago.She she's worked for us for many many years kidding.Yeah.Yeah.
I'm trying to picture.How do you go with with it an employee performance review with your mom and the roof?Well, I'll tell you I'll tell you a quick story.So so I buy a by practices that are typically about a one doctor practice around the Chicago area and we take these practices and we bring in these young want you to Picture This the average age of these practice owners are typically 70 to 75 years of age and then we'll bring in a young veterinarian.
That's typically 28 29 years old that's been through our mentorship program and we aligning them with one of these.So about three and a half years ago.I bought a practice literally right on the border of Chicago city limits 73 year old boarded surgeon.
So I want you to think of all the stereotypes of a of a surgeon in here.He is a phenomenal phenomenal surgeon in the first day.I bought the practice I had to go in there and convince him not to smoke inside the practice.So once you to pick your with that Sonic, so name it every kind of Full story I've had but there's something that is really powerful.
When you see these these these different Generations coming together and something very powerful because at the core of veterinary medicine, it's very much an apprenticeship base profession.I truly believe this in the same veterinarian who is now 76 years of age.
I just was doing his review a couple of months ago and he's a teacher at heart and he said to me when I bought his practice he Dan I'm not a good business owner, but I'm a great Veterinary and I love to teach and so this this practice which was a one-and-a-half doctor practice when we purchase it is now a 7 doctor practice and he came to me and he said Dan I just want you to know I am the happiest I've been in over 30 years because I get to do what I love to do and that is train young veterinarians and why I left there just feeling like a million bucks.
That is that is just special gift to be able to give to somebody that is amazing Cerrado.You got any other come back from that?You know, that's pretty rad.So amazing having an impact like that just you know, if it's not just that was one impact on one on one very experienced but narrowing but also the fact now that it's yeah like he's now being able to have an impact on seven other people, right?
So it's like almost like this pyramid of Of impact that just gets bigger and bigger bigger or just when you think of it that way.It's like you can bigger.That's huge.And I think that's important because you know, the reality is this if you look at in the states, the average owner today is in the early 60s and the next 3 to 5 years many of these owners will be gone and they have an Incredible Gift think of the the number of years of wisdom that they have that they can impart to this next generation.
And one of the passions that I have is bringing these two She's together.We know that the future of veterinary medicine is really in the hands of these young Millennial veterinarians.They're going to write the next chapter.And as we pass that baton on from the Boomers to now the Millennials, I think there's these next couple of years are going to be some exciting years.
And how do we bring these Generations together where they're learning from each other and and I always say that I say this to my to my older colleagues leagues is that you have something to really offer but I call the people wisdom skills the art of communication how to get things done how to work with people.
These are the skills that the younger veterinarians really yearn to develop.What do they have?They have The Cutting Edge of veterinary medicine and so there's something really powerful about that Synergy that can come together with these generations.And so I'm excited.
I want to be a part of that process.That's inspirational.I feel like starting a new practice to start a new project.What were you asking you asking me to come and be your Padawan or your Jedi Master met my mother.
You can remember that.That's that's incredible.I have taken so much from that.I've got a ton more questions.But I almost feel like we we could wrap it up there.There's there's just so much wisdom of age and I don't have to have you got anything.
I'll just go one question and it's based off that one there then.One of the one of our most common questions that we get asked or like our listener questions and is the challenge that actually that the veterinarians face when there is some should make me a generational Gap where you know, like what would you highlighted there was was that the veterinarian is come out the new grads come out with the state of the like the Pinnacle of what we are.
Veteran medicine is now but the the people who have the experience veterinarian should be now 20 years, you know have have survived the profession.They've actually, you know, they've they develop resilience.They've developed communication skills and so forth everything that's required to be successful.
But then it's it's it's the threat between the the the threat of of the new grad not feeling like as if they're being listened to and I need to practice the stain to the that they want to practice of being told they should practice and then Potential Threat of of an experienced veterinarian feeling like as if they're not respected or something, but the way you have you have you tackled that yeah that challenge.
Yeah, I think I think we hear a lot of the different stereotypes that are out there right the millennial that only wants to work six hours a day or 30 hours a week or the older veterinarian.A who is used to doing things their way that doesn't want to change in there.
So there's first and foremost is we have to recognize that those stereotypes.They may be out there, but it's really our job to break those stereotypes down and I think there's something very powerful about bringing these two generations together, you know the work environment.
Let's face it.A third of our life is in the workplace, and there's something special when we're working together, and we're talking to Kate.Is together so here's a here's a good example.I purchased a practice on the north side of Chicago.
This was aborted internist who had spent a started his practice in the 1970s single practitioner virtually his entire career and I want you to think of all the different stereotypes when I went into this practice.It's literally like walking in the practice that was built in the 1970s.
He still had paneling on the walls.You name it all the stereotypes that we can think of.And I had recruited a Veterinary and from San Francisco, California.And I want you think of all the stereotypes of all the different political divides and so forth and I was my job to bring these two veterinarians together.
Alright, so think of generationally this was a millennial from San Francisco.This was a older gentleman who is 72 years old on the North Shore of Chicago.Board in internist and I brought these two together and you know, they just they work together and they developed a very close Bond and relationship because that's what the work environment will do and I told both of them we started you have to have a commitment to listen to each other.
So part of it is breaking down those barriers working together developing a personal relationship.We're bonded because we love pets.We love to clients that we serve that's a bond that all of us share within our profession and that can break down a lot of barriers as far as that goes.
And so, you know, it's amazing.It's the little things that can really count going out to lunch sharing a cup of coffee together.I remember the first day when this young veterinarian started in she's like, you know what I think I can do this about two weeks later.
She calls me up and she goes I just want you to know.The doctor gave me one drawer in his in his desk that I can use now.So I think we moved a long way to fit developing our relationship.No time time time is I think that the most important thing and a lot of older veterinarians are willing to change the do they need help?
Absolutely.And again, that's why I go back to that model.We have to be as much of an intern as we are as symmetric today and and likewise the younger of Aryans they have a lot to offer as well, but they also have to be willing to be teachers and communicators.
I had to learn how to use Instagram.I had to learn how to do a selfie guess who taught me one of my younger veterinarians.And so there's something special when you're developing that relationship.So I think that would be my advice.Maybe the common thing here because sounds like little success stories.
Then the the common thing is you this could be your next career pathway or something like that.
But here you go.Yeah.All right.I'm gonna put that on my CB.Yeah and Sophie take up.There we go.Well, it's It's a good point that your daughter did that.How dead do you play an active role in that because Gerardo's right.
I it is.It is a problem that comes up a lot with language Learners where they go.Well, I'm just not feeling that connection with my employer or my potential future business partner these days we're not we're not gelling and it is the is the secret sauce having a third party who is an intermediary to smooth over that relationship I do but I also So I also am a firm believer of communication the art of communication in so many times look when I buy some of these practices.
These are practices that have not changed in 10 15 20 30 years and I'm a change agent going in there.And so I try to take the things that they're doing extremely well and keep doing them and then slowly implement the changes that we want to see and that's no different in developing a relationship.
I'm always amazed at individuals that say well this isn't working out for me.What are you doing?What's your role?What's your part?You can't change others.You can only change yourself some a firm believer in what I call personal accountability.We have to ask the right questions instead of saying why or when how can I help myself make the changes that are needed I think so you have to ask the right questions and take action and so part of this is having.
Knows what I call crucial conversations crucial accountability if things are not working out.How are you dealing with them?Are you going to that individual and communicating being respectful?I think that becomes a critical critical part of developing a mentoring relationship is developing the art of communication.
I'll get nothing more.Ask or ad like this is this has been really great.That's so I'm going to listen to this straight away.As soon as we stop recording.Then that leads me to to resources.We like to get some some of our listeners favorite resources because it's a podcast I asked about podcast rui you podcast listener.
I am I do I listen to a number of different podcast.We'd like to just please give us give us your hit list.Sure, Whitney Johnson disrupt yourself podcast.I'm a firm believer in I love anything that she she writes about.
She also is an author of a book called the 18 brainy business.I've been really interested in a lot of the different behavioral economics.So that's a great podcast.But Michael Hyatt podcast is a good one lead to win John Maxwell podcast.
He does one.He does a quick Maxwell minute every morning I listen to coaching for leaders.That's a great podcast and I do a lot of TED Talks as well.So I'm a big believer in in TED Talks.Can I also give a list of some books that I would recommend an oldie but goodie, but I think is absolutely necessary for anyone in leadership.
And I always say the moment that you become a veterinarian or a leader in search of Excellence by Tom Peters is a great book that qbq by John Miller.The question behind the question at talks about personal accountability the ideal team player of I Patrick Lencioni is a great book any book by Patrick Lencioni?
He's with me good culture eats strategy for lunch by Curt.Kaufman is a great book if Disney ran your hospital by Fred Lee is a great book.Let's see crucial conversations.Relations by Carrie Patterson would be another another great book as well.
Hmm.I had a thought over New Year's.I don't like to call things New Year's resolutions, but it's but it's very hard to get it to me as with it without thinking about how things are going to be different this year.And I've I've been listening to a lot of audiobooks over the last year or two and it's so much information because I get through especially through listening through podcast.
You get so many good recommendations of books and business books and so much information to consume and I worry that I don't Internalize it enough.So I've decided for this year.I'm going to pick a book because there and actually study it as if I would have studied a textbook and actually work through it instead of trying to get through five books a month or something like that and then you know, they can I try to recommend can I throw out a recommendation for a book that we actually use in our mentorship process particularly before they become a practice practice owner or partner?
It's a great book.Look, it's called from Bud to boss.It's a great great book and it breaks down every aspect of leadership delegation accountability communication coaching those types of things and I it's probably my favorite book for a young leader or soon to be practice owner.
That sounds like an awesome book.Sounds like my my this code is study material it would my way through Right, and then we'll wrap it up with our last question.Then we always finish with this one.So you're at a conference somewhere and you have the world's new graduates sitting in front of you and you've got a few minutes to give them just one one bit of advice.
What is your takeaway message?My takeaway message would be this be a lifelong learner have a growth mindset never ever ever be comfortable keep growing because in very medicine things are constantly changing and and enjoy.
It's a great great profession.You'll have a great career.It could be your golden ticket, but it's what you do with that golden ticket that matters at the end of the day.That's it.Alright, then thank you so much.I really appreciate your time.
Thank you.So much titles available feel like I want to come and see you clinics.Come here in America.We're going to draw always welcome all you and then Kevin Kevin will see it actually depends right?We just all the sudden discharge from the hospital.
Never call me by my real name.Yeah.Thank you very much Dan.That was awesome.Thanks.Gentlemen.Have a happy New Year.Have a lovely day.Thank you to thank you.

Dr. Dan Markwalder