Nov. 19, 2019

#18: Kids or career: you don't have to choose, with Dr Abbie Tipler

#18: Kids or career: you don't have to choose, with Dr Abbie Tipler
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 1

Since  starting the podcast we’ve had some amazing feedback from some of our listeners. I love hearing about how other  people are inspired by our guests, but one question that pops up time and  time again is some variation of: “I don’t feel like I can focus on my career, because I have young kids.” And I totally agree - I often feel torn  apart in the tug of war between career and parenting. So  here at the Vet Vault we’ve made it one  of our missions to speak to vets who are finding ways to create fulfilling  careers, while still being engaged parents and husbands or wives, and to  ask them how the hell they do it. When we started asking around for some guest ideas of people who seem to have solved this problem, our guest for today was one the first names that popped up: Dr Abbie Elise Tipler BVSc, MANZCVS (Surgery) is a small animal surgeon. She graduated from Massey University in 2005 and soon after graduation discovered her passion for small animal surgery. This took her to London where she worked for several years in a combined general practice/orthopedic referral practice. In 2011 she moved to Sydney and sat her ANZCVS Memberships in Small Animal Surgery and in 2016 was elected as head examiner for Memberships in Small Animal Surgery for the ANZCVS.  In 2017 she founded the Small Animal Surgery Discussion Page for world-wide surgery discussion which has over 6500 Veterinary Members. In 2018 she was the recipient of the ANZCVS travel grant for services to the Surgery Chapter. She has been actively involved in charities such as Pets in the Park, Elephants Rhinos People, Greyhound Rescue and Cantoo. Currently, she is a second year surgical resident at Veterinary Specialist Services. She lives in Saint Lucia with her husband and two young children. Join us as we find out from Abbie how she managed to create a rewarding career despite the commitments of raising a young family. She tells us about her journey into residency in what is a very competitive environment, how to not limit yourself based on other’s expectations of you, how to go from a nervous surgeon to a total surgical boss, and much much more.

Good evening.Ladies and gentlemen, this is Gerardo Poli. and this sorry one of the best bits of advice I've ever received was to find good mentors and to learn from them trusted people who have already done what you're trying to do.
Now.I've been fortunate throughout my career to have some fantastic mentors to help guide me, but I realize that they'd be hard to find and also hard to commit the time to 1.This is why we've gathered some of the best Minds from the vet new world and squeeze them for their wisdom so that you Enough to learn the hard way with the help of our guests.
We flipped the veterinary profession on its back and explore its soft underbelly to find the tips tools and inspiration that you'll need to build the career that you've always wanted.I'm Gerardo Poli.I'm Hubert him strapped and this is the vent valve.Since starting the podcast we've had some amazing feedback from some of our listeners and love hearing about how other people are inspired by our guests.
But one question that pops up time and time again is some variation of I don't feel like I could focus on my career because I have young kids and I totally agree I often feel torn apart in the tug-of-war between Career and parenting so here at the vid.Well, we've made it one of our missions to speak to vets who are finding ways to create fulfilling careers while still being engaged parents and husbands or wives.
And to ask them how the hell they do it when we started asking around for some guests ideas of people who seem to have solved this problem Our Guest for today was one of the first names that popped up.Dr. Abbey tipler is a small animal surgeon.She great graduated from Massey University in New Zealand in 2005 and soon after graduation discovered a passion for small animal surgery this took it to London where she worked for several years in a combined general practice / Orthopedic referral practice in She moved to Sydney and sad tone membership exams in small animal surgery and in 2016 was elected as the head examiner for memberships in the small animal surgery in small animal surgery for the ANZ CVS in 2017.
She founded the small animal surgery discussion page for worldwide surgery discussion, which has over 6,500 Retreat members in 2018.She was the recipient of the ANZ CVS travel grant for services to the Surgery chapter she's been actively involved in Charities such as pets in the park elephants.
Rhinos people ground rescue and can too currently she is a second-year surgical resident at Veterinary Specialist Services.She lives in st.Lucia with a husband and two young children join us as we find out from a be a she managed to create a rewarding career despite the commitments of raising a young family.
She tells us about a journey into raised at a residency in what is a very competitive.I meant how not to limit yourself based on others expectations of you how to go from a nervous surgeon to a total surgical bus and much much more.Please enjoy.
Dr. Abby template.Dr. Abby tipler very welcome to the vet.Well, thank you for joining us.Ah, thanks for having me guys just to clarify for myself a bu and Girardeau, you know each other through work as well.Is that correct?
Yes.Yes.So I'm I'm with Veterinary Specialist Services during the day and Dorado is with the emergency team Animal Emergency Services overnight.Okay, so he does the hard work in the middle of it.All right, you guys do the hard work?We just rock up and sleep.
That's what happens and just get woken up with a GDP comes with the door now.Yeah, exactly.Exactly.No, but you do a good job of those so you have you like the fairies who come in and fix The mistakes that Gerardo makes it nice if you have not getting into recording us and stuff.
But yeah, it's like why did they do that?What is it over the weekend just to clarify for the surgeon last time I checked you were doing a residency or you ever have you finished the presidency.
Are you special about you know, I'm in the trenches.I'm about out halfway halfway through so 18 months through so yeah, and how's that guy just passed the halfway mark, so that's that's you know, I've got I've got less to go than what I've done.
So yeah, that's that's a good look like a halfway dinner like every bit school has like a halfway dinner where they will get going to annihilated.It was no halfway dinner prize anything so but I did it reward myself.I went on a shopping trip and and And bought myself some new scrubs and whatnot.
So I celebrated with me myself and I but yeah, so that was better.Yeah.No.No, it's a little bit sad if you celebration is new scrubs.Well, it could be hard.This is what I'm doing now, but it's pretty much my life pajamas in Scrubs, but I'm going to jump straight in tell us about your journey from from vet student to start advert student and then a just a rundown of how your career has run to get you to the point of specializing in surgery.
Yeah, sure.So I started at well, I was a student at Massey University which is in New Zealand.So across the ditch and yeah messy was good.There's a lot of Sheep and New Zealand, but I yeah, so I wasn't and I wasn't good at all.
I wasn't really a family-type girls.So I sort of stood out a bit school for that reason, but I guess I graduated in about 2005 from messy and I yes I didn't stay long in New Zealand really.
I was there probably for about 18 months and then just in general practice there and then I went over to the The the UK to do the sort of the overseas experience.Like I guess a lot of a lot of vets do and and that was great.
I'd loking for a little bit but I didn't wasn't a great fan of looking.So I ended up at a at a general practice that that was also an orthopedic referral practice.So and I stayed there for about sort of three and a half years and I guess that's where I developed my Interest for your interest in Orthopedics.
Were you in the city with your London or where are you based?Yes.I was in Wimbledon.Huh?Do you know what?Yes?Yeah.Yeah exactly.Exactly.So and I'm married to South Africans.Yeah.So are we allowed to mention?
How does that work in the household interesting?It's interesting, but I want to talk about it, right.And time but yeah, it was a bit disappointing.But yeah anyway moving on from rugby.
Yeah, so yeah.No, but Wimbledon Wimbledon was was it was a lovely place to live actually and you know, we went to the tennis a few times with one of our clients of the wasn't a tennis player and don't ask me what your name was, but she was quite famous at the time and she's to bring her her animals over when she came over from U.s.
So she would always get free tickets to Wimbledon, which was great.And yeah, so that was good.And yeah, I really enjoyed sort of working in London I guess is everyone does we can sort of travel over to Europe whenever you want and have a weekend in Paris or whatever takes your fancy.
So yeah, it was a really good time and I was just very lucky that I found this practice and we did a lot of orthopedic.X so we didn't do spines but we did a lot of other a lot of other Orthopedic procedures.So my boss at the time was was very generous with his teaching and allowed me to do a lot of the end of the surgery.
So when I came back to Australia, I had a few procedures that I was really comfortable with that I could sort of bring to the general practices that I worked at.So that was that was useful.Experience that I got there but ee talking like like simple fracture repair or like plating and maybe cruciate and things like that that kind of stuff or a lots of cruciate slot sort of I'd say my like the bulk of our practice was crucial for television fractures.
Probably we sort of went through various various techniques as I guess you do with the was the crew sets and everything has its period of being in favor or you know, not just that but the evidence changes so you you know, you modify your Technique and when I was in London, we went to the the r3x tightrope workshop with Jimmy Cook and it was sort of when that procedure was first introduced and we were doing tight ropes for quite a while and and then we switched the tea Tas and I mean now I'm doing T pillows there seems to be the most evidence available to suggest that, you know, keep your lows.
But anyway, we don't want to get to in the Crush it like you to say, can you describe the technique of a teepee for our listeners out there and then old half and we'll fall asleep as I was about to ramble on about Crusades.I was like stop myself now do you came back?
And then you started to do sort of like general practice and then yeah, we were doing through maybe like Advanced Orthopedics for a general practitioner in in general practice.But that is that back in Brisbane or did You or so we so we moved from London to Sydney and I worked initially for a practice Great Western Animal Hospital, which was sort of in the western suburbs of Sydney.
And yeah, and that was well actually first of all, so when I first came back to Australia, I set my memberships in small animal surgery.That was the first year joyous thing that I did when I got off the plane and then I worked in Sydney really nice general practice and Sydney and yeah, I worked there for a few years.
Is and then I had the kids basically, I mean it was interesting with in Mossman.It was a very high socio-economic area.So all of our clients, I mean similar, I guess to working in Wimbledon and London but you know a lot of very wealthy clients one of our clients owned Hamilton Island.
So it was that, you know well and you know, it was interesting there was an interesting task so he'll the kids now just to just to keep put things in perspective.Yeah the kids.Yeah, so the kids are now five and a half and four.
So in our maternity leave with my with my son Ashton for about almost a year probably and then I went back to Mossman vets and we had a property in Sydney and but it was a it was a it was an apartment and we were you know desperate for a house, especially when I was pregnant with the second so We started to you know, the Sydney market for housing assistance saying as you guys probably would have heard so we had no family ties or any real ties to Sydney.
You know, we were a little bit flexible and where we could work.So we initially bought a property that was going to be an investment property in Brisbane.But anyway to cut a long story short we ended up moving to Brisbane.So here we are nice and then started when did you start your residency?
We're in that timeframe after moving to Brisbane.Did you make the decision to start specializing?Yeah, so we moved to Brisbane about two weeks before I had Maddie my second and it was fun.And and then I took another period of maternity leave and then for about eight months and then I decided to go back into general practice and I was probably practicing for about a year at a really really lovely practice actually in Brisbane.
I really really enjoyed it that As always I was spending a lot of time at The Specialist Hospital as I did in Sydney.I was always hanging out the specialist hospitals just scrubbing in and learning as much as I could and so I was doing the same with Veterinary Specialist Services just to to learn and you know, just make sure that I was doing everything that I could and I was just very fortunate.
I think just to be in the right place at the right time and I've sort of felt a bit of a relationship with Veterinary Specialist Services guys, and they offered me a residence.See, so I went home that night and spoke to my husband and said well, what do you think about this?Cuz I might not be home quite as much and he gave me his full support.
So I accepted it's a brave move.Yeah wasn't really was it on your radar at all or something called you you would be happy with the level of exposure getting through spending time in the specialist service and then being able to perform those things.
In your general practice like was for specialty on your radar or well okay to be completely honest.I just I always just put it in there not the too hard basket as in the the too hard, you know to hard work, but I just I never I never thought it was something that I would ever be offered if you know what I mean.
Like I I just never thought that I would be a candidate I when we Came out of vet school.We were told that you'd only get an internship or a residency if you've grades were amazing.And you know, he had to be this this and this and one of the interesting things is you may be only one person said that to me and I bet you believe it you sort of say to yourself.
Okay?Well, it must just be too hard and I must just not be good enough.So it really, you know, I can honestly say that I didn't really think that I could ever really do it and I think when Got when you're planning to have children, it's hard to get into that career mindset because you're you're sort of planning for your family and it's very difficult.
I think to be able to see beyond having children when you're a woman because it's impossible to you just can't predict what life's going to be like with children and you don't know how you're going to feel and you know, I think you just can't sort of map out your career path in your mind, or maybe you can but I found it difficult to anyway, so but once I had one side had the children and I started to get back involved.
I mean I was always involved with and when I mean when I was on maternity leave was a classic because I was found it hard being at home with the children.So I would get involved in all sorts of different things.So I examined for surgery memberships and I joined the surgical chapter committee.
And so I was doing all sorts of things.I was very involved in this sort of surgery world.It's a And then once the kids were just a little bit older.I started to think we'll what am I you know, what's my next step?Because I mean, I guess as you do at some stage in your career, you think we'll what am I going to do now?
And I guess ultimately the options were to either Specialized or by or by into a general practice.Those were the sort of two options that I saw, but of course when The Residency was offered to me.I was just So grateful for the opportunity and I think I was just extremely lucky I'd residencies a highly sought-after.
I don't know if I even realized that at the time had never applied for residency had never applied for an internship.So I think like I say, I think it was just it was just the timing and good luck that I that I sort of got that offer.So and of course now I'm really grateful for it because I really enjoy it.
I really love surgery and it's really I guess that was my concern with buying into a practice was that it's a lot of manager.Isn't stuff it's not just surgery.Let's put it that way.So and that was really the only thing that I really enjoy so I thought so at least you know, the good thing is that I get to really focus on that and hopefully it get good at one thing.
So I want to say you say it was just timing and good luck surely.This is from surely.There's got to be more to it than that.Yeah.Okay.So it's a tricky word for you to answer without saying well, it's because Observer fantastic, obviously, but but but what do you think other what are the reasons that they because they are sought after that I had to get you may have been there at the right time.
But if you went right candidate they weren't they weren't just going to say.Oh, I'll just give it to that girl because she tends to hang around your lunch.Well, you never know.I like we're never going to get rid of the things you think that you did or that.
You things about you that that you think especially being into the program now and knowing what the program requires that made you the right handed it in other words if you had to give advice for somebody looking for a reason see, how do you go about God and you know, it's such an interesting one because since I've started the residency, it's actually a really common question.
You know, how do I get a residency and look I mean, I guess I was you know, I did do a lot of other extracurriculars if it's within your profession, I don't But I was kind of involved I guess so, you know, I was part of the surgery chapter Khmer see, you know, I'd examined for memberships.
I think you know, I think they could see that I was maybe the type of person who was really genuinely interested.I don't know I can only guess, you know, you know, I think just, you know being they're going they're frequently and I can only guess that that helped as well and I think also well, I know in fact that they that they do really value of the vet.
Vets who have spent some time out and general practice because you know at the end of the day we are communicating a lot with general practitioners who are answering the questions were helping cases.And if you haven't worked in general practice, I think you know, it's really hard to be able to really relate to what it's like and what sorts of challenges that they have.
And yeah, I think it's really important and I think I think it's really valuable as well to just have a lot of experience kind of mean communicating to Science and it's interesting because when I went over to UC Davis for my externship and they have a very different system over in America where basically come out of that school and you're a little bit older when you come out of it's cool because Donna a science degree and then you've gone into that but you basically, you know, you come out of it.
So we do your internship in the apply for residencies and I feel like there was a lot of challenges that they face that may be.How do I How do I word this?You know that you may not face if you've had a lot of time in general practice and I think by that what I mean is no you used to communicating with was client.
So you don't have that whole added new new sort of fresh challenge of having to navigate the sort of client side of things.So I found that that was you know an advantage of having some experience and I think you know, also you just really you really know what you're interested in, you know exactly what you want to do, you know.
Been in practice for many many years.I've developed a strong interest in surgery.I knew that that wasn't going to change I wasn't going to suddenly do a surgical residency and then saying gosh, you know, I don't actually, you know, this isn't really something that I enjoy.So I was lucky to sort of have that that certainty in my path and what I what I felt were my strength and I think probably you know, those things have acted acted in so but look, I also think it probably depends a little bit on the residency as well.
So So some residencies, I think I probably more suited to we have someone who's just come straight from University or maybe someone who's done a couple of internships and there's published papers and all those sorts of things.I think the residents he has to match the candidate as well.
So I don't think there's a one size fits all necessarily either which makes it hard to advise people who say, you know, I really want to residency what should I do?And my advice to them is just to get involved as much as he can join Journal clubs.Is that your new memberships and surgery get involved in some some research go to as many conferences as you can that was another thing that I did heaps and heaps of I was always at the conference's I guess always speaking to Specialists just being in that community.
So I think that that must have helped the two things that came to mind when you were sort of talking beforehand because I was going to ask the same question that you did and I had down there like relationship with question mark and Daymond.Stration of value like you contributed greatly to to the to the the surgery chapter and through your contributions.
They could see that you were committed and that you were able to build professional relationships product, which I can see is incredibly important that there's being a specialist.I've just asked smart you are and and what kind of research you do an interest in it's actually you know, as you said it comes down to having those conversations that experience in the consult room experience.
Existence in terms of in general with regards to being a veterinarian and I can see how that all rolled together and and how major Prime candidate you know, I think it was like I think actually there was a I think there is a whole lot of work in the background that maybe have not really came to light until you kind of talk through it that way but yeah, I think yeah you demonstrate through we do you were one of the founding members of the small animal surgery discussion page, aren't you?
Yeah, so that actually I was the founder of that.So that's the year.That was good.Yeah.Well, it was interesting because I was I was at science week and I was so I just examined for surgery and I was in a surgical chapter meeting and you know, they were sort of talking about social media and and then it was a maybe a couple of weeks later and I I had a colleague of mine from from general Practice in New Zealand or out in rural general practice who sent me a message asking a surgical question because I guess sort of amongst my vet class.
It was known that I had gone off and done a bit of extra training on the surgery side.So it often get these questions and I'd help as much as I could but quite often I'd been turned to one of my specialist friends.Whoever what it was at the time and I'd say, you know, what do you think about this and it was kind of this?
Middleman thing and I just thought well, what would be great is if we could start a group that could help vets who don't have access to, you know necessarily a local specialist into that there have been constant communication with or you know, they're really stuck on a case and they don't feel that they can although they might not be brave enough to ask or something might have gone wrong and they might have wondered or gosh should I really have been doing this and you know, there's all these sorts of things and and also new graduate obviously, that's a hugely challenging time and you won't come.
As a new graduate in your this just a crush.This is so many things about being a new graduate that are tough and it's worth it if you can get better through that time, but it's a tough time and you know, I just thought if I can maybe get in touch with some new graduates in some rural bits, and I've got a bunch of Specialists friends.
So how that I started a Facebook page to answer surgery questions.So that's what I did and it just spread and now there's about I think we've got almost 7,000 Vets on this.Yeah, it's one of the things that I am proud of it.
It's just it's really nice to be able to see that.You know new graduate can come on and and ask her a question and then you've got John and less and the UK or you know, Andrew my chesky from sash or Philip Moses from VSS coming and answering a question from a vet.
That's in not even not even necessarily, you know, Australia, but anywhere in the world and can help them out with the problem, so Yeah, I think I think I said why is nobody told me about this page such a bad surgeon bro.
They don't want you to contribute the surgery paid.Oh, no, I don't want a goddamn it.I don't ask questions.I don't want your lame questions.Okay, that's an incredible achievement at Knology for actually created Community.Right one of the hardest things to do and what a lot of veterinarians feel they feel isolated.
That's exactly Being able to create as commute.Yeah, I think that's the thing and I think you know, it can be so isolating and a lot of practices are small.I think there's you know, there's an increase in the number of smaller practices that are there, you know one on and two men practices and you know, I think it can be a real challenge when you've only got one person that you can ask about a case, but if you can post, you know, the details or the x-rays or you know, just any information and say hey, what are you guys think about this then I Yeah, I think that can be that can be really helpful and hopefully just kind of reduce the stress that you know, the clinician might be feeling about that case.
That was that was my goal, you know in light of light of all the challenges that veterinarians can sometimes face.So I just fantastic Dorado.Are you guys asking questions or I've got some questions actually, but maybe not actually one thing I want to ask.
He is and you can decide when to start to answer this tonight and and but it's mainly around and actually our previous podcast.So I'll answer it as a question, but it's a bunch of let you know that you can decide if you want to answer tonight pleasure so that we had a previous guest that was on Justine the he's well known as Batgirl in the rotten.
Yes, and she mentioned actually one of the things that she Is or well, I suppose if someone asked her her suppose advice is that you should have your children like young so like having children and if you like if it comes to family planning don't necessarily delay your children for your career because obviously he gets harder as you get older to have children.
I don't know what your thoughts are on.Oh gosh.I mean I think I mean that it's just got to be decision that that individual and make for their own life.I mean, I don't think there's a one size fits all I mean gosh, it's there's so many effective select Dorado.
I mean, you know, I think if you can gosh, I mean I guess if you you know if you're in a position where You know, you're because look I mean I get yet the this there's so many aspects to that because you have to I guess in some ways being a a place in your life where you feel, you know, happy and ready to have children and if you if it's not the right timing for you or you know, a lot of women obviously struggle to fall pregnant so that can delay things.
So look how a you know, I don't know about the the general sort of advice of saying to women you should have children early, I think.It really depends and I could have certainly done things the other way around and you know, maybe if I just had a bit more faith in myself and applied for residencies or had been a bit more certain and my career path.
I could have specialized and then had the children then gone back to specialist practice.But you know as it turns out I've done it the other way around, you know, I think but I think you can do you can do either so I mean it's an interesting perspective.I don't know that I necessarily.
Or yeah.Oh wait what she was she was saying what she was alluding to is that that many people feel that it's career or children.Okay instant.She had career focused a lot on career and then had children, but she says in retrospect she should have just done career and children.
Now, you have to go by what you are doing to me.It looks like that's what you're doing you're going and then it's not one or the other I can have both I can have family while Focusing on my career, you know, I think I think there's something I think your actions answer the question.
I want to know how the hell do you do?It is a lot of people out there want to know that yeah.Yeah.Well, I think So, how do you do both look I think at the end of the day you've someone has got to be able to look after the children If you're sort of actively pursuing a career, especially the way that the I am at the moment, so, you know, it's a full-time job.
And in addition to that.There's study.I think it would be not impossible and and certainly women have actually done this, but I think it would be much more difficult.So if I didn't have support in doing that, so I I'm lucky in that.
I know my husband is an it and he's got a very flexible job.So he works long hours as well.But but he can work from home so, you know drop-offs and pickups and you know, we've managed to work it into the crazy hectic for sure.
But we've managed to work it into the routine.You're always faced I guess a little With the choice of Korea and time with your family and it was a discussion that we had and for the next few years it, you know, I'm just not able to spend as much time with my with my kids, but take a year off for almost a year for both of them from maternity leave.
So I was there for that sort of crucial I guess time and that were babies and and then I work part-time and this is the fabulous thing about the Veterinary Care.Is you can work part-time and I think to be honest, I think you could do a residency part-time as well.I guess it's another compilation but there's so many different ways and I think you know the great thing is that things are really changing and there are so many more opportunities for women in the way that things are done, you know, the that traditional, you know, this is the way it must be done that maybe was more suited to a man's career.
Here is is kind of you know, it's not completely out the window, but it's changing a little bit to allow some flexibility so that women can pursue a career and I think also the amazing thing is that my husband recognize that you know, by taking a lot of time off from my career, you know in the kids were were little he managed to develop his career.
So we've sort of we've taken turns I guess.So I guess you know probably it was four years that I was mainly at home with the children.So now I'm doing a three year residency.It was mainly doing the children stuff.So, you know, there's been a little bit of a flip in the rolls and I mean how fantastic is that that that that can happen because I really don't believe that that used to be an option.
I think that times are changing and I think that's really that's really great because I found and that an extreme almost by far the most challenging time in my life was staying at home with the with the children.I just found that it just it was it was just this.
I don't know.I just found it really difficult really like in and you know, you just love them to Pieces but I just found it really mind-numbing and my brain was used to being stimulated.I was used to being in communicating with people all the time and then I found it just so different and so I Like saying that it was it's great that I can now have a career and if I had to stay at home with the kids for my for my whole life as women used to have to do and I think I would find that really hard.
Like when you said there about how you know, the four years is when your partner focused his career and then you know kind of it's time to stop it over in a sense now like, you know, you don't your time now and if situation permits then you know, Have a conversation and the conversations around he asked me three years of of my time to build my career and stuff.
It's like kind of sounds like a reasonable kind of swap in a way.So yeah.Yeah, what a cool thing that can happen for not just for the for the for the female point of view just for men to be able to say, you know, it's okay sure.
I'm sure our parents generation where that wasn't really an option.We're hip to Dad's would have Yeah, I'd happily step back a little bit from from the 95 and spend a bit more time with my kids.I said Lee see that in my own life compared to how my dad had to be with us.
I see so much more of them.So no it is it is actually a great time and Veteran science is a fantastic career in that regard in that it allows so much more flexibility that you can kind of pick and choose when and where you want to work to some degree.Well, absolutely.Yeah.
I mean, I think it is a it's a it is a really really flexible career and that respect.So, I mean there's obviously challenges because there's the unpredictability of emergencies and which is what it makes it, you know exciting from an office job, but, you know can also make it challenging but you know, there's always there's always there's always ways that you can kind of problem solve these things and we've sort of muddled through and you know, we've We've had to use nannies occasionally for you know, if Luke has to travel for for for a bit or something when they might have to come pick them up after school.
But yeah, most of the time we've just sort of managed to fill the gaps so somehow so yeah, it's with made it work that I'm impressed.It's admirable we and you said that was there a particular kind of reason for why there was or because a lot of people, you know, consider a caddy long ago local in the UK and like was there something that about it that the you found was challenging or so forth, and it's For these particular people who were thinking of doing that you give me a heads up around it.
Yeah, that's an interesting question.I mean II don't know if it was just the two says that I that I happen to to land myself in I they were you know, they were small kind of practices.
I've you know, I've always right from graduating.I've always kind of gravitated towards practices with with a lot of that.You know, there's a lot going on there sort of people special interests.I don't know even my First practice in New Zealand was sort of one of the only referral centers in the in the south island of New Zealand.
So, you know, there was a lot of you know just a lot going on.So, I don't know if it was that or you know, just a couple of practices that I just felt weren't, you know, I guess there's that there's varying standards I guess and I you know, I don't know.
I just found that it it challenging.I also you know, I really like I think maybe just my a type perfectionist Personnel just didn't sort of suit that kind of randomness of not having a regular place to work.
And I mean what what eventually happened was I did a low commit at this practice and Wimbledon and they and I just really clicked and I basically just stayed there for three and a half years.So it was a no-brainer because we lived in wood in the practice was a wormwood in it.
As you know, we took with a pit referrals it just all it all just sort of worked out.But yeah, I mean I think low camming what's fantastic about locating and maybe what I wish that I had done a bit more of was go out into some of the more rural areas and sort of explored around there the UK maybe a bit more.
I mean maybe that would have been I was sort of trying to do it all in London being based in Wimbledon.Where is a lot of locums offer accommodation and so you can you can really travel around and see the UK whilst working.So I don't think it's anything necessarily negative about locomotive that makes sense.
It is stressful.I did a bit of that.I'm a bit like you actually had this conversation with a recent Gadget yesterday.He was asking me about about the idea of locating looking in the UK and it's definitely stressful every well if you change inherently is a stressful thing and it's change every couple of weeks and and not small changes all new team hold you System whole new culture and you have to show you your value and very often all that very often, but sometimes because you're the local you get all the thing to pass you all the crappy stuff that nobody else wants to do ya know.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.I don't regret having done it for the traveling reasons that you said and also made great people along the way but I do know the night or two before the actual Locum.I'd be in my little room in the rural UK.
Almost in tears at anxiety and loneliness about what it always works out fine, but it just said distressfully.It's not a it's not a I think you'll get you to do it.Yeah, I think so.I think yeah, I think it is a way of life that you need to get used to and I mean one of the I mean one of the interesting things so one of the only complaints that I've ever had from a client because you know enough I started I really try I guess to go to keep clients happy as much as I possibly And because I find that if you got happy clients, then the job is just much less stressful.
But one of the one of the complaints that I had was the actual complaint was irrelevant, but what happened in the consult the dog came in and it had a sore leg and I was really flustered because I'd arrived at know where anything was I was it was his the concert room no explanation of how to use the computer system.
So, you know, you're fumbling away in front of the client.You don't know what you know how to get into the system and then you half thinking about that whilst trying to ask the client questions and then you know, it was a simple, you know lameness and and and I you know said I will you know, we said but the dog on some meloxicam or whatever it was and then I went out and they didn't have it and I couldn't find it.
So I you know, I came back and from the clients perspective and I think absolutely I would have complained about myself, you know, I mean really must have just been thinking this fit has absolutely no idea what they're doing, but you know, I think It's you know, it's just it was just a just the fact that I just I didn't have any idea what I was doing on the veterinary side just on the on the logistics side.
So, you know, I mean, that's that that's not what you want.You want you want your clients to be happy and you want them to feel like you're doing a good job as well as doing a good job.So yeah, like I mean has it has its challenges but also has has huge advantages as well.
So yeah, I guess you take the good with the bad like like it.Nothing, but what about your experience just in general of working in a different country?Is that something you'd recommend in principle, but certainly worked out well for you are they are the things that you think are particularly advantageous about doing that and and with the things that you think you learned through working in a different country that you would have missed out on if you just stayed stayed put yeah look high.
I think that in terms of small animal practice.It's actually surprisingly similar across so I have worked in New Zealand the UK and Australia obviously and I have visited a couple of General practices in South Africa.
That's an interesting thing.So because practice in South Africa is very different.So but yeah, and then you can think it is similar, so I don't know if necessarily from a I Korea point of view gosh, it's hard because of course you're going to learn things from every practice that you work in.
I don't know if yeah, and I learnt a lot when I was there, but I don't know if it was necessarily being in a different country.But you know just being in different practices.I mean, that's why we go and you know, when you're doing a residency door a lot of you do externship, so part of my externship was at UC Davis and then I'll go The US and I'll do the other part of my externship and I'm doing some TRD in a couple of weeks with Sash and then urology department.
So I mean and you just learn so much from from going to different places, but I think the advantage of practicing in in the UK was really that you got to experience the different cultures from the travel and I guess also I mean, I guess also the, you know, your client base, you know everywhere your work.
Who is you know has a different client base and I think I think my my time and Wimbledon because my experience was working in different socioeconomic areas is that you, you know, your communication needs to be different I guess and so working in.
Yeah working a different practices and different areas can help you develop all of those sorts of skills as well.So certainly in terms of your life skills.Experience is valuable.Yeah as the clinical practice that's still cats and dogs has you know slightly different things that they see different breeds, but that's more rabbits hamsters and chinchillas.
Yeah.I was never good at that.I was never good at that the last bird that I saw died and I was flipping its nails and fact it just walk to the side and it was it was awful because there was a a child in the room and she started crying and and of course, you know, I felt like I had to you can't just suddenly announced it because when a bird dies it's dead, you know, there's just nothing to do which so I but I just I couldn't just say oh sorry.
Yeah, it's dead.So I started to kind of do CPR.It was just a nightmare.It was just yeah.Sorry after that.I just yeah, I didn't see another bird.So I think the other Goods which is this place as I wear about that, you know, you do see a lot of Exotics.
So yeah, I mean people bring in all sorts of things first and one of the important things about fish is that if you if you try to use it as a fish in the tank Ink and you and you miss the fish that you trying to euthanize and you inject the lethal Barb into the tank all the fish died when I got back to Australia this seem to be and in fact in the UK.
I don't know where they all were but in Australia they Exotic dancer sayings and most of the major city.So someone calls with a burden that they really make it past reception.So, yeah, so that was good for any reason about fish.
Yeah.I used to have heaps of fish when I was going through uni.And so I have a reasonable amount of knowledge around fish husbandry in and management of most common fish diseases.And a practice manager at work is really Keen to try to promote me as some kind of fish bet and so, you know, I tried it.
They're one of the species will be the try to solve the owners problems over the phone.Right most of the times it's like I bring you bring your best everyone.It's like a fish has got this thing and I'm like explain it to me and I'll Google, you know, white dots on fins and it's like does it look like this?
Okay.This is what you need to do.It's like I do.Like Godzilla because I really don't know if I want to see your feet.You know, I mean, that's what you do when you see something that's so out of your realm of expertise and I'll never forget when I saw an axolotl which have you guys ever seen one of those it's like a walkie fish and it's harmful to them.
And so they freak me out completely.Oh, it was terrible when it was gasping at the top of the water or you know, and so I said to her I'm just going to go do a bit of research and I win.Out the back and did what any good bit would do and I Googled it and they all I was Googling it and I suspect anyway Exotics are so fragile.
I just yeah, I am very very glad that that some bits interested in Exotics is but their way my kid has a goldfish that some it's got a big tumor on its side and I must admit I keep looking at it going.I think I can cut I think you're doing it's not as much sleep.
In the in the water as what Abbott would ya you've just you've just asked yourself as a fish bait.So guess who I'm going to know.I had a no Nicole and he had this like giant gourami and John Grammy.
Is there like a it's like this big, you know, but for people out there, it's probably better for what are you sending me to fish and they sell for around about I don't know one and a half two thousand bucks in Elia everyday take forever to get that big.There's giant Grammy came in.I like it.I like it was going to come down because he had like a mass that was bruising or bleeding or something the owners, like finally, I just want it done.
And yeah, he was like we were going to be down and then on the phone the to the nurse it's like okay.It's coming down now and I'll and I was like, holy hell come on and then there's giggling.I like it an acidic regime set out.
I rigged.Some water to go around and it will just kind of pump water through its gills and like I had all sorted and then like a couple nurses were like freaked out in a couple nurses really keen and they helped me out kind of figure out the back like pain relief plan so forth and then like we're all prepared and I was like all psyched up my phone ready to take photos, right?
And then it was one of my biggest achievements for the year right chopping the singer for joint gourami, and then you can come down and I we called him back and he goes, I know I just decided that I'd probably just wait till tomorrow.It was like it was like a really good pair now.
Well, if another giant Grammy wherever this is comes in, you know exactly what to do.I want to take you back to surgery as specifically as a field you had a you had quite a nice by the sounds of it quite a quite a good introduction.
Into it, but it's a scary thing for a lot of people.Let's get it scares.Lots of it's not just new grads.I know many experience base.You're still scared by surgery.I think part of the problem.These days makes me sound old when I say these days is the ever it is that because it is becoming so much more specialized that that many vets actually struggle to get exposed or a scared to try something new because there is the specialist down the road who can definitely do a good job.
How have you got any advice?How do you tackle surgery?How do you tame it that you get good at it without putting yourself or your patients at risk?Yeah.That is a very Christian.I think I think if you can so if you if you really want to do surgery as I did II knew that that's it, you know exactly what I wanted to do.
I think finding yourself as much as possible a practice where the other vets don't really want to do surgery.You know, I mean, that's the and and that's quite quite common.You know, you've got Victor really interested in medicine.I mean, I just worked fantastically with those vets because they would mainly tackle the medicine cases and I would do the steak chops and the space and I mean that's you know this so that there's so many surgical skills that you use for I mean Even your desexing it was so funny the other day.
I had I had two procedures.I had a over a hysterectomy on a dog with cystic ovaries and I had a liver lobectomy and I was really worried about the liver lobectomy.Well, I mean the I mean I hope her hysterectomy was just 10 times harder and it was just a nightmare when it was a deep tested dog, and it had these massive ovaries and they had I looked you know a huge friable blood supply and I mean, you know, so you don't necessarily have to you know, do your fracture appear to be able to develop and really get get good at surgery.
So there's heaps of opportunity within general practice to do lots of surgery and you know that that's that's where I started.I just you know, I'd be the one who would fight.For the toe amputation and you know a dog was came in with was with a wound and that was the one that was the concept that I wanted to see so it was always you know, if there was an emergency exploratory laparotomy.
I was there, you know, I was staying late I was an end, you know, and that's the thing is that it's an it wasn't just you know, I've always been I've always been a bit I had surgery and so, you know, even I'm Sydney I was on my day off.
Into specialist hospitals scrubbing in so watching them do a lot of procedures.So and eventually it's just amazing you are doing you know, the surgeries that you feel comfortable with and general practice and then you're watching, you know, Specialists do procedures and you're watching you watching you watch and then you eventually you just there's a transition between that and being able to do it and it's sort of you know, it just sort of happens, I guess so, you know, I think finding the right practice, you know, if you can find a practice with a someone, you know, who's a bit more experience and can teach you a few things.
So I really tried when I was working especially the practice that I was at in Brisbane, which I really really loved and there was a lot of new graduates coming through I tried to sort of, you know, give them tips and on the weekends.I'd have a little surgery set of workshops and you might cover, you know basic room.
Judgment, or you know exploratory laparotomy helicopter flying over and if you can find that and also the other thing is just your CPD, you know, there's the most amazing surgery workshops for you can go and practice on cadavers.
And so I did a load of that sort of stuff than conferences and it's yeah, it's just it's such a combination I think of things And if you're you know, if you're really interested, it will just it will just be something that naturally develops.There's always the experience like the other thing is just going and yeah, it's just going and doing some work, you know, like for example at the rspca or Animal Welfare League where referral just isn't an option and and your reps and and you still want to you know, feel like you're not doing the the patient and Injustice by set of having a go but You will get some more experience by doing that and you know, just really developing on your techniques.
There's also a lot of videos as well.So I mean the resources that are available to vets now is you know a great deal more than what we had.You know, that's making me sound old now isn't in the day when there was this time many.
Yeah when you're out, you know.Sitting out with the textbook trying to Fumble your way through but yeah, there's a lot more and you know, most of your sort of specialist hospitals.I mean, I guess you have to have a local Specialist Hospital but a lot of specialist hospitals are really glad to have General Practitioners come and visit.
We've got a lot to come and visit with us at VSS.And you know, I think that's another way that you can develop on your skills.So I mean, there's hundreds of ways really you don't necessarily need to Me too.I think you know don't be scared.
Just there's there's loads of the surgeries that you can that you can do, but we'll just come through the door every day if you're working in a in a busy general practice.So I think just finding the right practice and and surrounding yourself with lots of support and education and you'll get you'll you know, you'll get to where you want to be.
It sounds like a lot of it is it's just a decision as well to get good at surgery because you may not be in that.Today all these things.I know.Yeah.Yeah.Exactly.Exactly.You you had the desire you wanted to do it and you and the way you tell it doesn't sound like it but you've put in a lot of effort.
It doesn't just happen.It is a decision and a concerted effort to say I'm going to get good at this.Yeah.Yeah, I think so.I think you know, it's always going to be scary.It certainly was for me as a new graduate tackling, you know, even the most the most basic surgery.
So but you know, no overtime and was practiced just like anything you develop skills and and then they develop on those skills and those skills and you know, and it's amazing when you're doing a residency as well because you just when you start a residency, everything just goes out the window and you just you realize how many kind of bad habits you've got yourself into I guess and you know, then you just go right back to knowing you're feeling at least like, you know, absolutely nothing.
There's always more to learn I think.Good point you can always get better in it.I think that is one of the really cool things about the career as well is that you can there's so many different paths that you can take and yeah, so you can you can really pick something that you're interested in.
It could be management or research or surgery or medicine or you know, whatever it is and you can develop on that and I think we'll probably see more of that as time goes on as well.I think.You know things will become more specialized not even necessarily with Specialists, but just within General practices as well.
I really really like General practices where people can kind of put their heads together and say, okay.Well no, I'm really interested in Ophthalmology.And you know, I'm really interested in developing my skills around lameness has to that you can get a little bit better at one area because it's very very difficult, you know as everyone every general practitioner will be able to relate to when you're seeing just So many different cases and different species every day to really get good at one area relying on everyone special skills within a practice.
If you if you have a practice big enough, obviously, I think can be really useful as well.And I don't know if this is just a perception or was it just where I am you don't see a lot of female Surgical Specialists is that it is that it is that true is that it is true.
Yeah, it is a real.See so that there are less females that that become Specialists surgeons and know it's interesting because I think that there's lots of different reasons for that.But I wonder whether or not some of it at least is that that we're told I guess especially around things like Orthopedics that you know, it's a man's thing and even if it's not necessarily said, you know those exact words, I think it's there's this impression or this.
Don't know this this image that we get of a of a surgeon or especially an orthopedic surgeon being a man and I mean it is changing but it's you know, it hasn't necessarily, you know, for some reason there's a lot more male surgeons and you know, is it that is it that females aren't interested in surgery.
I don't I don't think that's probably true is it that is it that we're told that we're not as good as surgeons, which actually is Isn't true because there's Sabine some research out of the u.s.That is actually found that female surgeons have around a four percent lower risk of of death and their patients.
So, I mean that's female certain of that.Obviously.That's that's humans.So I don't know if that translates to to Veterinary surgeons, but it's interesting.So it's not that we're not it was it so they were actually saying what can the male surgeons do that similar to the female so that so that they can improve on their outcomes which That was that's a really interesting.
So one of my real have a people that we sort of find inspiring and I follow a human surgeon called Nikki stamp on Instagram basically and she has a hashtag which you know says I look like a surgeon and it's basically a hashtag that female surgeons can use and they you know might be in the operating theater or whatever and you know hashtag.
I look like a surgeon at the the idea behind it is just to change that image that maybe people have of a surgeon because I think you know, it's difficult to to be what you can't see and we know that it's important for females have role models than people who enter within the same gender that they can sort of, you know aspire to be like or whatever.
So if those female role models don't exist, then you know as that one of the Why this list female surgeon so I mean, I don't know the answer but I think it's an interesting thing to discuss and you know, if it's that if it's the females don't want to be surgeons.
I think that's fine.But if it's that females have been told that they're not good enough or that they just don't have that that role model or the inspiration that I think that that that you know, it can be really sad and you know, I definitely see I had a client actually just today and she's the loveliest client in the world, but And I was talking to her about the patella surgery that that I had actually done for their talk and and then she called her daughter and said now I'm just I'm just speaking to the nurse and you know, I think you know even just work just yeah or a lot of female professional probably have stories like that.
And yeah, I think I think I think every single one of them.Absolutely always have it.Yeah, exactly.There's always a story and I mean I don't take offense.I mean she was you know, really lovely but it's just kind of I think it's changing that perception and and having the conversation and also being really conscious and I think you know, one of the things that I think is really good about Veterinary Specialist Services is that they have a representation of both genders in In the in the surgery department and I think that's something that other specialist hospitals can aspire to because I think that you know just being just having that awareness of you know of having a balance between the genders.
We know that there's differences and that there needs to be representation from both genders at that's really important.So just being aware of that and having that conversation.I think it's really really important.In my in my first job in South Africa small smaller little practice.
I worked with with a classmate with a female classmate was an excellent rate.We had a client to us was not a lovely lady.She was quite a ball breaker really really and and sheep sheep sheep book to book their patients a bit in for I can't remember what for for some surgery either the admit and then she was she was very clear to me.
She said you doing this not to female bit and they are that way.The Terry went away the terrible irony is this client was a surgeon she was I said edge human said interesting but she still had tea.
She still had that buyers to say that it has to be a most kind of which is which is really and I really is said to dogs are they both had a renders umbilical hernias and just behind her back we both reach did one and mine broke.
Yeah, well, you know that's that's just because surgeon will be on females a bit of Surgeons, you know, so that's worth of evidence.They know what have you what have you got to ask I'm actually got my questions were asked but my my my my major questions have been sort of addressed and and she be what's your thoughts?
Okay.No, I'm going to then I'll ask you and out of better personal interest.When I am when I was Googling you you've done quite a bit of writing.He's done quite a bit of blogs and and educational writing and you quite quite busy on the internet.
When do you do in between residency and two children reared in the world you get time to write.I mean, it's interesting.I mean, that's something that I quite enjoy.I actually English was actually one of my best subjects before At high school and yeah, I do.
Yeah, so enjoy Andrew writing and I think I'm also I'm also one of those terrible people that if you ask me will you do this?I will virtually always say yes.In fact when I when I was offered the residency Philip Moses set me down and he said right now I need to talk to you about something you you are doing The Residency now and you've got a family and what else you going to do and I started to talk and he said nothing you couldn't do nothing else.
You definitely look after your family.And so yeah, but before I started visit and I've mainly I've mainly evade that rule I have done a couple of sort of educational workshops and things and obviously I still Facebook page but but I have tried to sort of have tried to cut down on my extracurriculars.
But yeah, I did used to really enjoy writing educational articles.And yeah, so I think yeah some websites.I don't know how they even found me.I think they can make him smell out the person who's going to who's going to say.
Yes, and and they probably called a hundred bits before and then said here with me right now.You're right about this.And I was like, yeah, I really love to do that.So yes, I ended up writing but you know bits and pieces about about things.So I yeah that are still floating around the internet and I hope once we finish the residency.
I hope I can get back involved was doing a few more things like that.But yeah at the moment I'm guessing Okay.Okay.Okay.That's what I was doing.
No, not at the moment.Not at the moment.Well, we have to write papers.So I still get my own still get to running.It's been some of your blog's have two papers or something.You know, did you come gosh, I wish I wish I've got I've got to I've got one more for ya.
Well a couple of what this what this what I just need your attitude here and we might make this a regular questions rather I ask I don't have to I don't know is this but when I when I prepare for the interviews, I asked the case if they have any cool story.Look at that.
I can work into this interview to to yours.I can't quite work into the interview.So maybe we should just have a question and say please tell us exactly a disaster.So I call it the frozen dogs.
So I was I was working. it was in Wellington in New Zealand actually, and and one of our clients came in and And his dog had been euthanized the de bourgh, but he wanted to he wanted to see her and the nurse came asked me if that would be okay because obviously it's not a request that you get every day.
So I sort of you know, I thought about it and I said, well, I can't really see why we can't allow him to see his own dog, but it wasn't, you know, she was in the freezer at the stage.So I thought well, I better just go out and have a chat to him and just explain that.
So I did that and he said I know that Okay.So anyway, I went to get her and you know, I apologize.I said look, you know, I'm really sorry, but it's been in the freezer and she's you know, she's a bit Frozen.So anyway, we get her out and you know her I mean you can just imagine she's absolutely imagine something completely for anyway, so he he sort of saw anyone leave.
Get him with the dog and then a few a few minutes later.He's gone and I said to the girls, where is he and we're getting really worried at this stage.That was all a bit unusual.So anyway, we looked at size and and there he was and he had propped the dog up.
It's sort of squashed it up so that it looked like it was sitting in a sitting position and he propped it up on the fence outside the practice.So this is like a fairly main, right?Here and it propped it up and he was he was taking photos of it and then you put it in the Rose Garden and he took more photos and well, actually I had said to him before, you know, can I ask both like to see her and he'd gone home and he realized that he just didn't have any photos just didn't have enough a doesn't have enough photos.
So and take a few so So anyway, he did it.Yeah, so that was a bit.That was a bit weird.It was it was it like somehow randomly.Like I don't know positioned in a way that it looked like as if you could was sitting as I think was wasn't present.
Yeah, so he, you know to make it look like it was it was a live in the photo so that, you know can be sort of looking back on the happy memories, but It just I mean when you see the results on 10 different angles things and say it but when we got it out of the bag it Stefan was kind of kind of drifted out and it was sort of stuck to the side of his face.
It looked very much dead to me.But I mean, I think maybe in the photos, you know, it looked okay, but but it's Photoshop Photoshop.Yeah, it's quite funny because I was telling that story and a couple of years later to a non veterinarian.
I was it was a new girlfriend of one of our friends in Sydney, and she suddenly went quite pale and of course, you know, it had a fling wind it was you start to accept, you know, you really sort of kind of lay on the details about how it was, you know deformed in the freezer and all this kind of carry on and she went sort of pale and and left the room and it was a couple of weeks later and I said to I said to my friend, oh I said what what happened, you know, you know the girlfriend Looked upset about the about the Frozen dog story and he said oh, yes, and I said what what is it?
And he said I why I forgot that that our dog had been euthanized just a couple of weeks before and I see I said that terrible, you know, how could you how could you tell because it said happy telephone book story and I said that's so insensitive and he's like and he said oh but wait.
It gets worse and I'm like what and he's like why you get any worse?
It counts.That I won't forget in a hurry, but all right, I'm gonna finish up with regular question of this time.
You are at a conference and You've Got The Whole World's new graduates listening to you and you have a couple of minutes to give them one bit of advice about the original careers or bad anything in life.Really?What is your one word of advice to do the veterinary Community out there?
You should have one makers.Gosh, I feel like I need to say something super inspiring.I think I think what I'd say is just you know, really try to stick with it and and believe in yourself and it just don't let any perceptions or you know opinions kind of make you think that you can't follow your dreams.
That's good.Good thinking on your feet every thank you so very much enjoyed.Thanks guys.It was fun.That was good to chat.Thanks for thinking that.Thank you so much.Have a good night.

Dr Abbie Tipler