Oct. 6, 2024

#130: The Joyful Emergency Vet: Essential Strategies For A Long And Happy Career In Emergency Veterinary Practice. With Dr Brooke Schampers and Dr Taleta Hompas

#130: The Joyful Emergency Vet: Essential Strategies For A Long And Happy Career In Emergency Veterinary Practice. With Dr Brooke Schampers and Dr Taleta Hompas

In this episode, we explore the highs and challenges of working in emergency and critical care (ECC) veterinary medicine. The discussion covers the adrenaline-fueled appeal of ECC, the personality types that thrive in the fast-paced, unpredictable environment, and strategies to sustain a long-term career in this demanding field. Insights include building efficient workflows, prioritizing self-care, managing shift work's health impacts, and cultivating joy and gratitude in daily practice. Brooke and Talita share their personal journeys, offering practical advice on creating sustainable routines and balancing professional satisfaction with well-being. Whether you're considering a career in ECC or seeking strategies to thrive in it, this episode provides valuable perspectives and actionable tips.

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Season 1

If you work in emergency practice, or you're considering it, then this episode is for you. ⁠Dr Brooke Schampers ⁠and ⁠Dr Taleta Hompas ⁠are ECC veterinarians with more than two decades experience between them who create resources and coach others on how to thrive as an ECC shift worker through there ⁠EMV4Life⁠ program. In this episode they will tell you:

  • How to better structure your shifts to optimise for sleep and health.
  • How to navigate the swing between night and day shift.
  • How Taleta manages shift work as a parent of young children.
  • How to increase productivity on shift to reduce cognitive load and stress and get you out the door sooner.
  • How to bring more joy into your emergency shifts.  

We discuss what there is to love about emergency vetting, what to consider if you are thinking of a career as an ECC vet, and what other challenges there are beyond sleep and shift work.

Contact us⁠ to find out about our Vet Vault/EMV4Life resource bundles to help you up skill and navigate life as an emergency vet.

Lift your clinical game with our RACE approved clinical podcasts. Get your first two weeks free at ⁠⁠vvn.supercast.com⁠⁠  for more clinical confidence and better patient outcomes, or check out our Advanced Surgery Podcast at ⁠cutabove.supercast.com⁠. 

Get case support from our team at specialists in our ⁠Specialist Support Space⁠.

 

Topics, Time Stamps and Chapters

00:00 Intro

03:22 Why ECC? What’s to love about it? 

06:38 Are Certain Personalities Better Suited for ECC

15:39 The Impact of Shift Work on Health

22:21 Brooke’s Routine for Sustainable Night Shifts

32:51 Balancing ECC Work with Family Life

46:18 Setting Yourself Up for Long-Term ECC Careers

50:32 Rostering

54:17 Increased Productivity On Shift

01:06:17 Finding Your Joy in Veterinary Work

 

We love to hear from you. If you have a question for us or you’d like to give us some feedback please get in touch via our contact from at ⁠thevetvault.com⁠, or catch up with us on ⁠Instagram⁠.

And if you like what you hear, please share the love by clicking on the share button wherever you’re listening and sending a link to someone who you think should hear this. 

“Strategies for Managing Shift Work in Veterinary Medicine”

Shift work is an integral part of veterinary emergency and critical care (ECC) medicine, but its physical and mental challenges require deliberate strategies to ensure sustainability. Below are practical tips for managing shift work effectively:

  1. Prioritize Sleep Hygiene
  • Maintain a Regular Sleep Schedule: Create consistency in sleep and wake times, even on days off, to support your circadian rhythm.
  • Optimize Your Sleep Environment: Use blackout curtains, white noise machines, or earplugs to minimize disruptions.
  • Avoid Stimulants Before Sleep: Refrain from caffeine and heavy meals several hours before bedtime to enhance sleep quality.
  • Post-Shift Recovery: Wear sunglasses on your way home after night shifts to reduce light exposure and prepare your body for rest.
  1. Nutrition and Hydration
  • Pre-Shift Meals: Consume a balanced, nutrient-dense meal before your shift to fuel your energy levels.
  • Timing Matters: Avoid heavy meals between midnight and early morning; instead, opt for light snacks like protein bars or rice crackers.
  • Meal Prep: Pack healthy, high-protein snacks to avoid reaching for high-sugar, high-fat options during shifts.
  • Stay Hydrated: Regular hydration prevents fatigue and supports mental clarity.
  1. Managing Workload and Cognitive Load
  • Plan Your Shift: Start by organizing patient care priorities and delegate tasks when appropriate.
  • Use Tools Like Templates: Pre-written templates for medical histories, discharge instructions, and common procedures can save time and reduce stress.
  • Adopt a Team-Based Approach: Communicate effectively with your team to share the workload and manage emergencies.
  1. Combatting Shift-Work Fatigue
  • Limit Consecutive Night Shifts: Two back-to-back night shifts are ideal, allowing adequate recovery time between.
  • Mid-Shift Power Naps: If possible, take short naps during longer shifts to recharge.
  • Avoid Split Shifts: Consecutive blocks of night or day shifts are better than switching between the two.
  1. Mental Health and Well-Being
  • Create Boundaries: Learn to say no to shifts or workloads that compromise your health.
  • Engage in Relaxation Techniques: Practices such as mindfulness, meditation, or light exercise can help reduce stress after shifts.
  • Celebrate Wins: Reflect on the positive outcomes and moments of joy from your shift to maintain motivation and gratitude.
  1. Leverage Technology and Resources
  • Utilize Sleep Apps: Track your sleep patterns and get actionable insights for improvement.
  • Learn From Others: Follow shift-work-focused content, such as "The Healthy Shift" or sleep-related podcasts, to stay informed.
  • Invest in Ergonomic Equipment: Comfortable shoes, standing mats, and supportive scrubs can make shifts physically easier.
  1. Advocate for Better Working Conditions
  • Communicate Needs: Advocate for sustainable rostering practices and fair scheduling during contract negotiations.
  • Educate Your Team: Share research about the health risks of poor shift management with your workplace.
  • Create a Support Network: Collaborate with colleagues to develop a positive work environment and share effective strategies.

By implementing these strategies, veterinary professionals can reduce the physical and mental toll of shift work, creating a sustainable and rewarding career in ECC or other veterinary fields.

“Finding Joy and Meaning in Veterinary Practice”

Veterinary practice is a deeply rewarding career, but its challenges can make sustaining joy and purpose difficult. By adopting intentional strategies, veterinarians can rediscover the meaning in their work and enhance their professional satisfaction. Here are key approaches to finding joy and meaning in veterinary practice:

  1. Reframe Your Perspective
  • Focus on Positive Outcomes: Celebrate your ability to make a difference, even in small ways—like easing a pet’s pain or providing comfort to a stressed owner.
  • Acknowledge Growth: Recognize how every case contributes to your skills and expertise, turning challenges into opportunities for learning.
  • Revisit Your 'Why': Reflect on the reasons you chose veterinary medicine to reconnect with your passion for the profession.
  1. Cultivate Gratitude
  • Daily Gratitude Practice: Keep a gratitude journal where you jot down three positive things about each day, such as successful cases or kind client interactions.
  • Celebrate Small Wins: Acknowledge even minor achievements, like calming a nervous pet or finishing a challenging surgery.
  • Appreciate Your Team: Recognize the contributions of your colleagues and support staff, which fosters camaraderie and shared purpose.
  1. Strengthen Client Relationships
  • Emphasize Empathy: Approach every client interaction as an opportunity to provide comfort and guidance, even in difficult situations.
  • Build Trust: Clear communication and honesty with pet owners can lead to more fulfilling relationships and mutual respect.
  • Reframe Challenges: View difficult clients as opportunities to practice patience, adaptability, and problem-solving.
  1. Create Joyful Moments on Shift
  • Connect With Patients: Spend a moment cuddling a cute puppy or soothing an anxious cat to boost your mood.
  • Celebrate Teamwork: Acknowledge the teamwork required to save a life or manage a busy shift, and express gratitude to your colleagues.
  • Find Humor: Share lighthearted moments with your team to relieve stress and build connections.
  1. Invest in Your Well-Being
  • Prioritize Work-Life Balance: Set boundaries to ensure time for hobbies, family, and self-care.
  • Engage in Activities That Energize You: Pursue hobbies, exercise, or creative outlets that refresh your mind and body.
  • Seek Support When Needed: Reach out to mentors, colleagues, or mental health professionals for guidance and encouragement.
  1. Build a Positive Work Environment
  • Encourage Team Morale: Participate in or initiate activities that foster team spirit, like celebrating milestones or organizing social events.
  • Advocate for Change: Work with your leadership team to address systemic issues like understaffing, inefficient processes, or burnout risks.
  • Share Success Stories: Reflect as a team on challenging cases that ended positively to build collective pride and satisfaction.
  1. Develop a Joy Journal
  • Track Meaningful Moments: At the end of each shift, write down three things that brought you joy or fulfillment, like a thank-you from a client or a patient’s recovery.
  • Reflect on Patterns: Over time, notice recurring sources of joy and find ways to maximize those moments.
  • Focus on Positives: Use the journal to counterbalance tough days with reminders of the meaningful work you do.
  1. Recognize the Impact of Your Work
  • Remember the Ripple Effect: Your efforts not only impact pets but also bring immense comfort to families.
  • Acknowledge Patient Progress: Celebrate every step in a patient’s recovery, from wagging tails to a discharge home.
  • Value Your Role: Understand that you play a critical part in the veterinary ecosystem, improving lives every day.

By cultivating gratitude, fostering connections, and prioritizing self-care, veterinarians can rediscover the joy and purpose that brought them to the profession.

Did you know that shift work can kill you?Not like right now.But it can.Literally shorten your life by something crazy like 10 years.And I think honestly, work life balance in emergency can be quite good, but it's the impact on your sleep and the health ramifications of night shift that I think I wish I would have realized before going in.
And that right there is one of the main stumbling blocks to a long term career as an emergency vet for many people, which is a shame.Because the work you get to do.As an emergency vet can be pretty bloody cool.But here's the thing.Those statistics on how bad shift workers for you are for your average shift worker maybe someone who's not that strategic about how they approach their work.
But our guests for this episode are not your average shift workers.I'm Ebert Hemstrom, and you are listening to The Vet Vault, where we picked the loose ends of the veteran profession to unravel the common threads that help you build a meaningful, fulfilling career and life with a vet degree in your hand.
And my guests for this episode are Doctor Brooke Shampus for around 2 and Doctor Toledo Humpus.They have between them more than 25 years of.Work.As emergency veterinarians and they love it.And they think that if you do it right, if you are thoughtful and planned and structured with the right tools and knowledge, that you 2 could love a career as an emergency vet and love it for a long time, not just as a short to medium term phase in your career.
In this episode, Brooke and Talida share their personal strategies, their lessons learned through many years of trial and error, as well as the data that is out there on everything shift work and everything ECC work.I wouldn't change my career pathway choice because I love it, but it took me a good three years to figure out how to do it better and I won't say well, but better.
And I wish that I had known that earlier.They'll tell you what they think there is to love about working in emergency, like if you're wondering if a career in emergency could be for you, they'll let you know what to keep in mind.You know, I think probably the biggest thing is you have to be OK with the unknown not having all the answers.
Always like me, you are already in a role as an ECC vet.They'll teach you how to better structure your shifts, to optimize for sleep and for health.How to navigate that swing between night and day shift.How to lead to manage a shift work as a parent of young kids.How to increase productivity, to reduce cognitive load and stress and get you out the door and into bed or the gym or wherever you want to go on your shifts, and how to bring more joy.
Yes, I said.Joy into your emergency shifts.When you sit down and you start to recognize why you actually love your job and what you look forward to on a day-to-day basis.And once you figure out what are your three key areas of joy on a shift, you start to lookout for it.
You start to look forward to it.So whether you are just curious about working in emergency.Or you are.Well and truly crossed over to the dark side and you're looking for ways to make it easier, better, and more sustainable.This one is for you, my little night crawlers.Please enjoy Brooke, Talita, and a joyful career in emergency and critical.
Care, Brooke, you know you were guest #2 right?Many, many, many years ago when you first started this, yes.Time has gone by.
Were you very new, very fresh in the vet game when we first interviewed?You already had a solid head on you.Back then I was like, how is this girl?So she got shit together really early on in her career and it shows.Thank you.
I think I've got a lot more wisdom and a lot more wrinkles, and I think that's the side effects of ACC.All right, so we want to talk about emergency critical care, working in emergency as a career, the good, the bad, the ugly and how to make it more good and less ugly.
And in my head, this main groups who this would be interesting to listen to.A is somebody you guys, maybe I want to do emergency and critical care, but I have questions.B is I am an emergency critical care and I have challenges.
So those are my buckets of ideal listeners.So let's talk to those guys if you guys are happy with that.Yeah, I think that sounds great.First question for either of you, or maybe both of you, actually.Yeah, let's get both opinions.Why emergency critical care?What's the good?What do you love about it?
I love the thrill of ACPR here, like I love the challenge, I love the intensity.I think like so many of us in Emergency, I'm a bit of a closet adrenaline junkie and like the thrill of a good CPR and the rush of getting the patient back and trying to, you know, stabilize the patient and then work through what needs to happen in quick succession.
There's nothing that beats that buzz.We can't always deliver positive patient outcomes.But you know, what we try and hope to do is find answers, gather information and give people that information to enable them to make decisions.And that's what I love.
I love not knowing what's going to work walk through the door next, not knowing what's going to happen on a shift and I really enjoy that challenge every time I walk into a shift, like I guess in if I'm looking at a patient that encapsulates that for me.
We had a little dog that came to the Ed probably about six weeks ago now and it arrived in part cardiocommon arrest.The owner had called and said it had collapsed.We live in North Queensland, there's heaps of snakes around.We said bring the dog straight down.We arrested just before it arrived, great CPR effort.
My team got the dog back.It was on a ventilator for a couple of days and then we discharged at home five days later and it just doesn't get any better than that for me, who I loved that.We know they don't always go like that, but you know, that's the ones that keep you coming back.I think very similar to to later it.
I know that in those moments, no owner wants to be in emergency For them, that is probably one of the worst days of their life, or at least a pretty horrible inconvenience depending on what they're in emergency for.And I think it's the ability.
I feel like I'm making the biggest difference in those moments.You know, it's the connection with the owners in those moments and yeah, really being able to make that big difference in the pets lives and the owners lives in such critical moments.
Do you think it's a personality type that's drawn to this?I don't know.I think I am such a type A person.My entire day is scheduled.But then I love ECC because you don't know what's going to come through the door.
So I really think that it's somehow balancing out that life.And everyone you meet in ECC is so similar.Everyone is, you know, a little bit Taipei, but very easygoing.
When you put them in an ECC environment, everyone's like, well, we'll just roll with whatever comes through the door.Especially the night crew.I don't know what it is about night team ECC's, but it's all right.Whatever chaos comes in, let's just do it, let's roll with it, whatever happens.
And it attracts a very special type of person.It's Alee.I'm going to flip that around for your answer.Do you think that there's a personality type or a temperament type who it's not for?Who would struggle with it?I think the answer is yes, Hugh.I think it would be, I think there's probably a thesis in there somewhere about what type of personalities are drawn to ECC and, and leading into our conversation today, like the ones that love to thrive in ECC and who will rush towards that collapsed dog as well.
And I think that we're all built differently.And I think that, you know, we had a Poly trauma that arrived and it came out the back into the treatment room and it was on the bench and, you know, ran over.I was like pain relief, stabilisation, oxygen, like working with the dog, really enjoying it and medicine specialist walked past and phenomenal individual and just went, oh, that's too much trauma and kept walking.
And so I think that there is.And I think I don't know what how you break that down as a personality type, because as Brooke said, like I'm incredibly structured in my daily life.It is so to organize everything is planned.
We have spreadsheets for everything huge and yet like I maybe that's why I love emergency like there's no spreadsheets.You just have to roll with what happens there's.Not, not, not as in what's going to come in, but in terms of what you do about it, there's definitely structure.
And I think maybe that's why you both are good at it because in the chaos, having a very organized mind, I think is a benefit.And I say that because I feel like I'm the, the flip side.And This is why I'm digging into this because I don't know that I'm actually a natural ECC vet.I when you say, I don't know what's going to come in tonight.
I don't know what the shift's going to hold.That causes me some anxiety.Like I'm anxious on my way to work every shift.I'm like, oh fuck, what's this?What's going to happen?And I like a good sick dog or cat, but more, more dogs or cats, Let's all be honest, but but not quite the dying ones.The this is on the knife's edge and now it's up to me for you not to die.
That definitely stresses me out.I I've while I'm doing it, I'm like, shit, this is not good, this is not good.And then I think, and this, this may be really interesting.Maybe this is part of your thesis.Both of you say that you're very structured.I'm more of a creative person.
I'm not that structured.I work towards it.In that chaos, my head's everywhere.My head's like, what's next?What's next, What's next?I don't panic, but it's definitely, I have to take a deep breath, look at my list, Andrea says.It's not, it's not easy for me to do that.And maybe somebody listening to this going, yeah, no, no, no.
When that dog comes in and it's blue or it's just about to die, I want to run out the room.Maybe it's it's not for you.I don't know.I think probably the biggest thing is in ACC has to be OK with the unknown not having all the answers and be OK with chaos and being able to multitask.
I think would be the biggest things that when we're talking about personality types, if you don't like chaos and loud noises and a heap of things happening all the time and being over stimulated and then the chaos of multiple crash patients and then the unknown of in emergency.
We don't know a lot of things.We don't know the dog's prior history.We can't access GP records overnight.Owners don't know what medications they're on.They're on a little blue pill that they get once every second day.They don't remember the dose.We get a collapsed dog that comes in.We don't know why.
We have to figure that out and sometimes they die and sometimes we don't know and sometimes we can't save them because of factors that happen before they get to the hospital.So I think it's one of these things in emergency, you definitely have to be able to let things go quite easily and not dwell on not dwell on things and have a really good coping mechanism of what do you do when things don't work out the way you want it to.
Because it happens almost every shift.Something will happen on shift where you don't get the outcome that you want and you have to be OK with it.So I think if you're one of those people who really like organization and calm and known outcome.
I don't know why I work in emergency because that.Emergency is, I think emergency would be tough for that personality.I, I, I actually have more like that.I, I do sometimes think maybe I should have done medicine or something, but I will say the things that I still like and that keep me in it.
It's, I suppose it's that ability to be there and provide comfort and reassurance when nobody else is.Maybe it's a, maybe it's a hero, a savior complex you suffer from, but it's a lovely feeling to be there.And, and the reality is, and I will say this, and maybe This is why my work situation works for me.
And maybe that's something to consider for somebody else's.I work in a clinic where I'm almost never alone, even though I've experienced and I can do the big surgeries and stuff, those cases, there's often somebody or mostly somebody in the room with me who loves that.So I'm like, that's fine.You, you go nuts with all the stuff.
I don't feel unsupported.Whereas if I think if I work sole charge all the time or whereas the major person, the only one responsible, it would be much harder for me.Because because the reality is the cases you guys are talking about, they're actually, I don't know in your work scenario, but they're actually minority of the cases.
I think people outside of ECC often think it's all blood and guts and gold and bells ringing and stuff.And it's mostly not.I mean, a lot of skin and mostly gastrointestinal disease, a lot of urgent but non-emergency non dying patients.And I'm very good at those.
And it's lovely for me to be able to fix that painful ear on a Sunday night when somebody can't sleep.So I get I get to kick out of those things.So there's definitely at least something to be said for that if it's in the right work scenario.And then the other thing, even those dying ones, when I speak to people who are interested in it and they say, I don't know if I can do those.
I'd be too worried if they're going to die and it's my fault.And I said no, actually, in a way, I find those really urgent cases almost lower pressure because maybe I could have saved them if I was a bit faster or a bit better or something.But they're dying because they're dying.
Yeah.The spay that dies on anaesthetic, that's much, much worse.The dog that's just been hit by a car, yes.I agree.And it's so interesting as well to hear because I think if you look at emergency veterinarians, even within those vets, there's the true Ed vets that love the thrill of the crash, the stabilisation, that acute faith.
And then you've got your critical care veterinarians who love sitting in the ICU working through the cases, working through the nuances and really fine tuning with those glorious sick patients.So I think that there are absolutely personality types in there as well too.
And it is fascinating to talk through.And I feel that it's those first couple of years in emergency where you are seeing all of these really sick cases much more frequently in those first couple of years is the steepest learning curve, isn't it?And then after that, it sort of settles out and you can be a little bit more relaxed with them.
You've seen them before, you've treated them before and you're familiar with them.And I think whilst, as you said, Brooke, you love the impact that you can have on every shift you're there, you can make a difference to those patients.You can make a difference to those owners on their worst day and be there for them.
It has gotten so much easier for me and to the point where I love my shifts.They're joyful for me now.And that's because I've got systems and structures in place that reduces that cognitive load that you were talking about in one of your previous podcasts, so that it's just easier for you to work through at that time.
So the structure that I've put around that now, around the chaos, has helped me enjoy it and make it more sustainable.Brooke, what's the toughest thing for you about working in emergency critical care?I think the impact on your sleep and night shift for me is probably the hardest thing.
The work I love, I get a little bit bored sometimes.I do genuinely.There's only so many fluteds that you can see in Melbourne we have a huge cat population.I think I must unblock 1 cat a shift.You know, you get so sick of that conversation and having to make it new and exciting and reminding yourself that this is really stressful for the owners and it is a life threatening condition.
Well.I will counter that by saying have that same conversation 10 times a day for your puppy vaccinations and see how boring that gets.Exactly.So I think the work is hard, but it's you'll get the same variation in every single job that you do.
It's the impact on your work life balance.And I think honestly work life balance in emergency can be quite good.You generally only have to work part time to make the same amount of money you would working a full time job if you're looking at a lot of ECC salaries.
So if you structure your life and how you manage your days off, your work life balance can be quite good.But it's the impact on your sleep and the health ramifications of night shift that I think I wish I would have realized before going in.
It wasn't until I was probably a good four or five years into ECC that I started to follow a couple of Instagram pages around shift work and one in particular on Instagram called a Healthy Shift.He's next police officer or a current police officer who's been doing shift work for 20 plus years and post a lot of research and papers on the impact of shift work and the disruption on circadian rhythm.
And you know, certainly no studies have been done on shift workers who are doing it well.It is based on just a general nurse population or doctor population, because that's the largest subset of shift workers.But the statistics are quite scary.
It shortens your life by a good five to 10 years.I saw one study that put it up there with smoking in terms of a health risk.It's cancer inducing.It is, particularly as someone who's thinking about having children in the next couple of years.
If you're working night shift during your first or your third trimester, it dramatically increases your birth complications and rates of miscarriage.So that in itself is just terrifying.Lower birth weights, premature birth, miscarriage, lower cognitive development of the child, all of these things that I wish I'd known going into it.
And after you've kind of worked about five years in ECC, I think one of the papers said the damage is kind of done.Whatever's going on with your cells and that disruption to your circadian rhythm, that damage is done.It's really hard to reverse.So I'm seven years in and I'm like, well.
So that's industry.If you say you wish you'd known it beforehand, would you have not done it based on what you know now?I don't.Think I wouldn't have done it, but I think I would have started earlier in trying to minimize the health impacts of it.
You know, one of the other studies I was reading said the worst thing that you can do is split between night shift and day shift.It's better to do just a shift, but it's also not as bad to just do night shift because you're not affecting your circadian rhythm as much.
You've still got some form of a rhythm.So just little things like that.And since I've just gone to night shift only, you know, I don't get up before 10:00 AM at all, ever, unless it's for a really important appointment.And just that difference in having a regular sleep wake cycle as best I can has been such a massive, massive difference.
You know, I take melatonin now.And taking melatonin is also linked to potentially reducing the risk of breast cancer.Working night shift increases your risk of breast cancer, but it's something to do with altered melatonin production.So all of these little things that I wish I'd known earlier in order to optimize my health is probably something that I would have changed.
My response would be the same to you and I wouldn't change my career path by choice because I love it.But it took me a good three years to figure out how to do it better.And I won't say well, but better.And I wish that I had known that earlier because you can then set yourself up better, minimize those health impacts.
And that's part of what we have hoped to provide that information through EMB for Life as well, too, so that people have got that information to try right from the outset.They're not trying to reinvent the wheel themselves.Which is huge.And, and you're right, because when you start, you're often, hey, you're young.
So you, you're kind of bulletproof, more bulletproof.I saw a post the other day, a social media post, it's a picture of this young person running with a big smile on their face and it says that studies have shown that the best way to maximize your fitness and recovery times, etcetera.
I can't remember the wording, but something along this line is to be 20.So so when you started your 20s, you kind of bulletproof and you can I said yes now and I could do it.I could do an overnight shift and then have a busy day and do kids stuff and then go out for a drink the next night and get to bed at 10:11 PM and and not be dead, not anymore.
And that changes really quickly.And as you say, I think it's cumulative.It sort of sneaks up on you.And actually jumping in on the front end is probably the much wiser way to do it.Yeah, I could have.You know, back when I first started, I was doing 3 or 4 night shifts in a row.
I'd have a day off, swap to a day shift, work the weekend day shift, have two days off back into a run of nights, and those nights would be 1416 hours sometimes because of the caseload.And we didn't have fatigue management back then and I was fine.
Now I do two night shifts in a row maximum, and if I'm doing a third, it has to be an afternoon shift that goes into a run of nights because I just can't do it.It takes me a good two or three days to recover after a run of three nights shifts now, and I just categorically won't.
It's in my contract.They can't roster me three nights in a row now because I feel so strongly.OK.So talk me through what how you're planning Brook, how is it different?So you said two maximum overnight and then?Yeah.So going into a run of night shifts, so going into two night shifts, I will wake up at 10:00 AM the morning of that night shift.
I will have my normal day around 4:00 PM 4/30 I'll go and have a little bit of a nap and if I don't sleep, at least I'm kind of closing my eyes.I'm listening to a TV show in the background.I'm just zoning out, lowering my heart rate, just relaxing, calming down.
Sometimes I'll fall asleep, sometimes I won't.And then I'll get up, get ready for my my shift, and then go to work at 7:00 PM and I'll work 7:00 PM through till 7:30 and then I'll go home.I'll be in bed probably by 8:30.And then I will do nothing but sleep between shifts and I'll sleep until 536 o'clock if I'm lucky.
Sometimes I'll only get to sleep until 2 because I'll wake up, go to the bathroom and not be able to fall asleep again.But most of the time I'm quite lucky in that I will because I haven't slept for almost 24 hours.The middle sleep during the day is usually quite solid for me, but I have blackout blinds, earplugs, an eye mask, and a very quiet partner who moves around the house very quietly.
And we have doors to the lounge room, the kitchen.We live in a very old brick apartment so it's pretty soundproof, but we have doors between all the rooms and he knows he's not allowed to vacuum, make noise.If he wakes me up, I am.I'm a different person if I get woken up in the middle of the day.
So then I'll have a coffee, double shot coffee, go into night shift again, get home at 8:30, and then coming off a night shift and not going into another one.I will sleep until about 334 o'clock.
Get up, go for a walk or go for a run, go grocery shopping or something like that.Do something that requires and I, this is what we talk about.You want me doing this coaching and mentoring sessions and a lot of people are like, oh, I just don't have time to meal prep.
I don't have time to go to the grocery store.So then I say use this time when you're not going to be productive.Your brain isn't really working, but go grocery shopping, pour yourself a glass of wine, make some spaghetti bolognese, watch TV in the background.
Do something useful with this time that you would otherwise spend just sitting on the couch and recovering post night.So that's what I generally do and then I'll take some melatonin and I will be in bed and asleep by about 10:00 PM that night.
Sleep until 10:00 AM, start my day and that doesn't really change.That is my normal routine and I think the biggest things that have assisted with that is I don't have any caffeine after midnight now.I'll pretty much only have a double shot coffee at about 6:00 PM prior to my night shift and then my meal timings on shift is really important.
I'll have a snack before work.I will always eat my dinner before midnight and I will do my best.You know, unfortunately you're supposed to fast between midnight and 5:00 AM.It's starting to reduce your risk of cancer.
It's very good for your health, very good for reducing bloating and gut disruption on night shift.But I just can't do it.So I will snack on like some rice crackers or something, or some protein balls between like midnight and five AM, 5:00 AM.I'll have a Muesli bar usually and then I'll come home and have some like cheese and crackers and then go in to sleep.
So won't really have a Big Breakfast and then I always wear sunglasses on the drive home as well to just try to reduce the amount of light that my eyes are taking in post night shift too.So all of these little things and changes really helped.
You know, I used to just drink coffee throughout my whole shift.I wouldn't get a good sleep between shifts.I would eat all night.I wouldn't care what time I ate dinner.I'd have dinner at 2-3 AM and then I'd feel a little bloated and slow and things like that.And yeah, really, having a bunch of, I mean, it helps now that I'm celiac and I can't eat anything that's lying around work.
The worst for me is if I didn't take the right snacks at food.I had this, the 4:00 AM craziness where I would just prowl the hospital, go through everybody's drawers.Like where?Where's the chocolate?Yeah.That and the and then the post 6:00 AM coming off off a night shift.
I really wanted coffee in the morning because I'm such a morning coffee drinker normally, but then not having that coffee.Otherwise I'll as you say then sleep would be an issue during the day.Yeah, certainly fighting those instincts to do what feels nice.And certainly I the food that I pack on night shift is really important as well.
So a really high protein carbi meal with a decent amount of fats is what I'll have before midnight.So big bowl of spaghetti with some cheese on top or a Mexican bowl with some good amount of guac and stuff like that.
Just something really filling to get me through because again, I won't have a full meal until 10:00 PM the next night on a night shift, I'll wake up, I'll have probably a protein smoothie before I go to work, but it's going to be a good 24 hours before I have another decent meal.
And that's what works for me.And I get my protein in elsewhere.I've got my protein balls usually I'll have a yogurt as well.So I've got protein in that, crackers and cheese when I get home, a protein smoothie before work.So again, really making sure I'm getting some form of protein in each meal and and then I also pack little bit of chocolate, little bit of marshmallows.
I need something sweet come 2:00 AM.Marshmallows is my thing at the moment.So I packed 4 little marshmallows with some roasted almonds.I think the the key lesson is pack the four marshmallows, don't take the whole bag and and plan to only eat 4.Because.Exactly.Talita, before we ask you is I'll, I'll underline something there.
It's so interesting to hear about your system.It's really well planned and it's really disciplined and I actually, I wrote a blog post about this a while ago.But if so, it's Olympic time now, right?The Olympics are on and you look at those athletes and I guarantee you, or definitely before race day, but even before training day, they are professional athletes, right?
And professional for their means.I do not get to go on the piss the night before training.I need to be in bed by a certain time.I eat this, I watch my body, I watch my diet.It's it's planned.And then definitely on performance days, there's no wiggle room.You sleep.This is the pillow I sleep on.
This is the room I sleep in.There's all these things and the realization for me over the years that we are, we say that we're professionals.Professional doesn't mean I have a degree and I get paid to be a vet.Act like professional and that means make sure that you are don't make a hard job harder.
I absolutely felt that moving to Melbourne and living with my partner for the first time, the first year I didn't, my routine was out of whack and I wasn't sleeping well before night shifts and everything was just a bit out of balance.And it got to this point where my partner sat me down one day and he was like, don't you realize that if you don't go to gym the day you start work and go into a run of shifts and you don't try to lie down and have a sleep, he was like, you're a mess.
And I was like, oh OK, thank you.And it's that structure and that consistency that I think has been the biggest game changer and probably something.And again, it's taken me 7 years to figure out this routine and I've implemented it consistently in the last 18 months and it's the best my sleep has been.
It's the best my productivity has been, and it's uncomfortable to try to sit there and figure it out, which is why we have this mentoring and coaching to help people design the routines that work for them to make Night Shift sustainable.
But once you crack the code of what works for you, it's a game changer.And then you figure out all the other little rules, like really trying to limit having one day off between shifts, ideally having two days off to fully reboot.If you have to do a day shift, making sure you have two full days to turn around your body clock.
No finishing at 7:00 AM.You have a day off and then you start at 7:00 AM the next day going to 7:00 PM.All these little things that you put in place to protect your health, protect your mental health and your sleep.And I think we talk a lot about to our mentoring and coaching students, what's your domino?
If one thing falls, what crashes after that?And every single person says sleep.If I don't get enough sleep, I my whole life falls apart.And I don't think people acknowledge that and they realize that, but I don't think that they necessarily sit down and put in the work and the steps to protect that at all costs and design the routine around that, that they protect at all costs to suit them and actually make ECC sustainable and do not pick up shifts that compromise that in any way.
You talk about your partner being supportive and understanding and part of your team.I'll tell you, and this is how we've got to pivot to you, Talita.I'll tell you who are not understanding and supportive in this business, children.They don't give a fuck.
So how do you do it, Talita?How do you how do you make this happen?It'll obviously be a very different routine for you with a lot more requirement to to flex.It is what you said before, Hugh, resonated really strongly in that in the early days, you did some really reckless things with your sleep and you'd do an overnight shift and then you'd stay up the next day and you'd be busy and get things done, spend time with the family.
And I remember doing exactly all of that.And we had, I started an emergency and we had our first child probably two years after I started.And so I'm naturally a very early morning person.Like a great day for me is starting my day at 5:00 in the morning with a double shot, wake up slowly, enjoy that morning coffee and then get into the day from there.
And that's my best day.And that is solidly out of alignment with trying to do shift work.So it's the first few years were really rough and I did everything wrong and learnt some really hard lessons from that.
You know, I'd ride the caffeine wave through the shifts, have too many coffees, used to reach for Red Bull, would raid the vending machine. 234 AMI, did all the things wrong, Shoot.And wondered why I couldn't sleep.And I'd sleep for maybe two to three hours in between shifts.
And then you'd have to back up and do another night shift.So you hit the caffeine harder, you hit the snacks harder.You wouldn't have time to meal prep like it was the definition of a train crash.And then throw into the middle of that young children who didn't sleep.
One had horrendous reflux, so she couldn't go to daycare.So I'd stay up with her through the day and then husband would come home, I'd try and get a couple of hours sleep and then roll into another night shift.And you look back at that and you just go wow.
Like that was just so and you know, then I ended up with a neuroendocrine tumor about five years later, which are really highly correlated to like bad sleep hygiene and are over represented in shift workers.
And we don't want to turn your listeners off ECC and off shift work because it is, you know, possible to do this well.And I think as we delve through the research as well to, as Brooks said, a lot of the research is done in those shift worker populations, but none of it is validated and balanced for correct sleep practices.
How many hours of sleep are you getting?What's your diet, those sorts of things.So although those are the statistics, you know, within that population, we can't then account for what is the impact of sleep hygiene, what is the impact of poor diet?Because we also know that shift workers are probably going to have much high intakes of refined sugars, which is linked to all of those other health ramifications.
So I think that there's so much more research to be done.But the interesting thing was post that experience for me, I then went, OK, I like this work, but I need to make it sustainable.These health impacts are too much and I need to find evidence to teach me how to do this.
I'm very type A and I need reproducible evidence based research.And so we had a sleep researcher come and speak to us.I found a fantastic sleep podcast called the Mac Walker Podcast, and he goes heavily into the science of sleep.
So then you know what practices you really need to safeguard to make sure that you can sleep as best possible.Your room has to be less than 20°.There needs to be blackout curtains, You need to minimize any noise, have earbuds in, things like that.
So I taught myself that.I went to a nutritionist pastor to help me and then learnt how to meal prep, meal plan, what I should be eating on shifts as well to support that energy through those shifts.And it has all come back down to a routine very similar to what Brooke has.
So exactly what you outlined, Brooke.My only difference with my shifts and sleep and I've not done overnights now for two years here, but there was 11 years of overnights before that.And in the last two years it's been day shifts and swings, but swings still finishing at 345 in the morning.
So it's pretty much an overnight.Sometimes it's even worse because you don't expect it to go that late, so you don't sleep beforehand.But it's always the routine is identical to Brooks.And I think that's different for everyone and you have to find what works for you.But I think sharing those practices that we have found success with helps you at least take those shortcuts.
And my difference is when I'm not working, I'm up very early because that's my natural circadian rhythm and I can't usually pre nap before and overnight.So like I will go into it a little bit tired and just have to push through, but then I'll sleep the next day.
And then the sleep routine is always exactly what Brooke said as well too.And for me, I'll get up before a shift and depending on what's happening with the family as well too.But again, the poor husband is very well trained and usually he knows that the best thing for me is to go and do a little bit of light exercise and wake myself up that way because that's I feel much better with that.
So even if it's going outside and going for a walk or a light jog before the shift, that will help me an awful lot and support that energy.You don't feel quite so tired on shift.But again, that's very different to everyone.And I found what has worked for me and it's just that little bit of light energy beforehand.
This famous book, I won't have coffee after midnight on shift.I'll have a herbal tea or something.I find it's sort of.I checked the placebo effect against myself and had decaf coffee on shift and then caffeinated tea and then herbal tea and it made no difference.
It was like the nice warm comforting beverage that I found stimulating.So it didn't really matter for me after that.So stop caffeine intake before midnight and the quality of sleep is much much better afterwards.And I think the biggest thing that people struggle with is falling back to sleep after a run of nights.
And the key in that is really forcing yourself to get out of bed, see sunlight.And one of the issues, one of the issues with being a shift worker, a night shift, is if you don't sleep during the night when you're supposed to and you're eating, your body has an increased level of circulating triglycerides because when you sleep, your body burns that off in your bloodstream.
And when you don't sleep, those triglycerides stay in your bloodstream.So when you have a little nap during the day, those triglycerides are still there when you wake up in the afternoon.And that leads to things like high cholesterol, heart disease, cardiovascular disease, all of that sort of thing.
So the walk and the run, that movement in the afternoon is not just I'm getting up, I'm getting moving, I'm waking myself up.I'm also trying to burn off some energy so I'm tired to go back to sleep.It's also I'm deliberately doing that because I know that there is fat sitting in my bloodstream that I need to get rid of, otherwise it's going to impact my health down the track.
So I just want to clarify what we're talking about is this, you said people who struggle to fall back asleep.Is this during your day sleep or is this when you're?If this is coming off a night shift finishing at 7:00 AM, waking up at if you sleep until 6:00 PM and then you go, oh wait, I can't fall back asleep that night.
I'm up until 2:00 AM.And it's an it's a non work night.Like you're not working, but now you're finding yourself you're still on on night mode.Yeah.And the biggest key to that is waking up early in the afternoon and forcing yourself to get out of bed and out of the house.That is so essential.
You talk about the Domino's sleep and then exercise and but I feel like the sleep and exercise are actually kind of linked as well, kind of completely.They're both very important and the one doesn't really work well without the other.When we talked to our mentoring and coaching students and we talked to them about, tell us, you know, if you had more hours in the day, what would you do?
And a lot of them do say exercise, and it's just kind of stops there.So we asked them to dig a little bit deeper, get a little bit more specific around what is it about that exercise that you want to do more of.And when we push them, they go, OK, I would like to do Pilates an extra 1 day a week.
I would like to lift weights one day a week.Or some say I just want to get moving.So we sit down with them and help them figure out what is actually achievable.Because if you just put exercise on your To Do List every day, chances are it's not going to happen.
But if you get specific about it and go, OK, I would be happy if I walked two days a week, just went for a 30 minute walk and I'd like to be in the gym two days a week lifting weights.And then you look at that and go, how can you optimize that routine?
Well, we should probably be doing full body workouts on both of those two days to really optimize why we're in the gym.And then, yeah, really making sure that you get your two walks a week because that's what you've said is achievable for you not going, oh, I want to do daily movement seven days a week.
It's probably not achievable for shift workers and people who work in emergency.So when you break it down to as specific as you get about sleep, how are you going to optimize your sleep Domino?How are you going to optimize this exercise Domino?
And if it's genuinely important to you, you have to preserve that and making sure that you were crafting out time to make it happen.And one of the other things that we talk about in this coaching and mentoring is making sure that you make it a priority.
If you leave it until the afternoon of you know you're going into shift, you're a bit sleepy, it's probably not going to happen.If you want it to happen, you have to do it at the start of your day because that is what is important and then everything else falls around that.
So really, and it seems so simple, but just because it's common sense doesn't mean it's necessarily commonplace and common practice.Very tricky, isn't it?It is, and you mentioned it before.You said your husband or your partner understands that it's necessary because it can feel a bit selfish sometimes.
Like you work a lot.And then especially with the family.I've there's lots of stuff I could do with the kids or with my wife or for my wife.And then I'm in the shed doing my weight and I can feel like a bit of a Dick sometimes going.But I understand and she understands that it's not a luxury.
It is an essential.That's right.And you acknowledge that her holding that whole burden by herself as well too.I shouldn't say a burden, sorry.That responsibility of the whole family for Indian slip is, is a lot and you want to be there and support, but also that you're going to feel a lot better on shift if you can just take 20 minutes to go outside for a walk or a run.
And I think that this is where there are so many positive changes happening within the profession.Brooke, you mentioned before and you certainly back in the bad old days when we started emergency, there was that hero complex.You were seen as weak if you needed to sleep, you know, it was worn as a badge of honour if you didn't have a lot of sleep in between shifts and you were back for another night shift.
Whereas now we know that that's incorrect.We know how important fatigue management is Sustainable rosters.It's almost like back in the day, I Sydney made my day in South Africa.It was kind of hardcore to drink and drive.Yeah, look at it.
He's so drunk and he could still drive.And now we go, you fucking idiot.What were you thinking?It's, I feel like it's a little bit like that, that.Was absolutely the conversation we had, wasn't it?And I think that that's it's the same thing now to now that we know what we know was sleep and now we know nutrition as well and you feel like it's almost an unnecessary level of detail.
But if you, whilst we're talking about all of these practices in terms of emergency, because that's often the pointy end of the stick, it's overnight shifts, the fatigue is, is higher, it's against your natural circadian rhythm.These practices are applicable to any type of work or life balance.
You know, for you to have that energy that you deserve personally, that your family, your partner or your friends deserve as well too.And so that you have that health and that quality of life that you deserve.And in the coaching, we also challenge the attendees and say not what practices do you have right now to support your nutrition, your sleep, your exercise, but what can you do to take it to the next level?
Because it's really easy to get comfortable, but to actually feel like you're making progress and you're taking steps towards that progress.That's the accountability that you need to have to yourself so that you consciously achieving those goals.And it, you know, it might seem excessive, this level of detail that we go into around sleep and exercise and meal planning and the importance of meal prep and bringing energy into your shift everyday.
And how can you deliberately bring that energy and deliberately find that joy?But there is a reason to leader and I, I've been doing this for seven years and plan to for the rest of my life.I have to, I don't want to do anything else, so I have to to make this sustainable.Toledo's been doing this for 20 years and when people say, oh, it seems a little bit excessive, a little bit over the top, they're the vets that are only in emergency for three years because it's too hard on their work life balance, it's too hard on their sleep.
There's a reason that people say emergency is unsustainable, but potentially they're also the people that are not putting sustainable practices.Just a quick interruption here to tell you about something that we're working on.After this conversation, I started going through the resources that these guys keep talking about it from the emergency Vet for Life programs and they are really super useful.
So you already know that the Vet Fault has emergency and critical care stream as one of our subscriber only podcasts where we talk to the best ECC specialists to lift your game and increase your clinical confidence when you're out there on the front lines.And I think that the EMV for lives content makes a beautiful companion for the Vet Fault clinical podcasts.
Our clinical podcasts cover the caring for animal skills and Brooke and delete cover the human skills because you can be as smart as you want.If you're under slipped and burnt out, it's not going to do you much good, is it?So here's what we're doing.We are bundling some of the Vet Vault stuff and some of the EMV for Life stuff together for you so you can cover all of your bases with some special pricing.
For our listeners, if you are not currently subscribed to the Vet Vault Clinical podcast, this might be the time we'll Add all of our clinical podcasts.Plus all of broken.Toledo's content in a discounted bundle that will get you up and running or back up and running in emergency practice.And if you are already a clinical podcast subscriber, we won't forget about you.
The team at EMV for Life have some special love for Team Vet Vault with the pricing of their products.Shoot me an e-mail at info@vivetvault.com and tell me what you're interested in and we will send you the relevant details and pricing.OK, back to our conversation with Brooke and Toledo.
Here's a question, Brooke, that what you described there with your boundaries around shifts and what you can and can't do and will and won't do, that can be challenging because often workplaces have requirements that don't really.It's not that they don't support it in theory, but the realities of all we need shifts filled.
Somebody's got to step up.How do you how do you deal with that?I think I'm quite lucky in that I want to work nights, so already that's a little bit of leverage that nights doing full overnights are not a hugely popular shift amongst vets.
So the fact that I say I only want to work nights do not put me on anything that starts before midday already.That's probably a bigger portion of shifts that are left unfilled.So I acknowledge that certainly helps.Being a more senior veterinarian, having memberships again carries a little bit of weight, a little bit of seniority there in the ability to state my preferences.
But also finding a workplace that just understands and acknowledges that if they want to keep vets long term, they have to be flexible.And as we're becoming more educated around the perils of night shift and how dangerous it can be, if I'd known back when I started, no way would have I would I have let them roster me 4 shifts in a row with a day off and then back on another run of shifts.
So I think as we're becoming more educated, workplaces need to acknowledge that they can't pull the same shit that they used to in terms of terrible rostering.So that helps.But I also think that you're always in your strongest place in negotiation when you, you know, are signing a contract.
Once that contract signed, it's pretty hard to change things sometimes.So going in with your best and final offer of what you're willing to accept in terms of your workplace conditions.And it has taken me a few years to figure out what works for me and only doing two night shifts in a row.
If I pick up a third shift, that is my personal choice to pick up an additional shift.And I will try to only pick up an afternoon shift.So I still get a decent normal sleep before going into nights.
Yeah, I think if you're going into ECC and you're signing contracts, putting forward your rostering requirements and making sure it's written in the contract so that whoever's in charge of rostering can't try to squeeze extra shifts out of you, and figuring out what is your optimum number of shifts.
You know, when I first started, I would do 16 shifts in a month, and I figured out that was way too many 12.Too little, I get bored. 13, 14 is my ideal number of shifts.So when I'm looking at my roster and I'm picking up shifts, making sure I don't go over that 14, that self-imposed boundary.
And there's also, you know, I don't work full time.I work, I'm rostered permanent, part time, 120 hours.Anything else I want to pick up over that is my own choice.And it gives me the flexibility.I'm a bit tired.I'm not necessarily burnt out, but I'm mentally fatigued this month.
I'm not going to pick up any extra shifts.So I do think that's probably quite important.And the good thing about ECC is that we get paid more so we don't have to work as much and really leveraging that to our advantage when we need to and trying not to sign contracts where you're locked into full time hours where you've got no flexibility and time to recuperate.
Have you had challenges with us, the leader with?You've run an emergency business, haven't you?You're on the other side of this equation, yeah.Yes, yes.And that's something as Brooke said, I think that education piece, workplaces now know that they need good rosters that preserve that work life balance, that optimize the time off that 2 shifts, 2 overnights is really ideal.
But it does come down to personal preference.Like I find myself if I'm in a swing of overnights, the first shift is difficult because I'm tired.The second one, I'm still a bit fatigued.The third one is my happy place.So like I'm going to me, I'm really happy to do three in a row and then I'm that's preferred and then I have more separation in between.
So I think it just comes down to personal preference to you and like going in with your eyes open and knowing that there's going to be ramifications for this.So just how to mitigate those if you do pick up an extra shift, you know, you haven't got huge commitments the next day.
Probably one of the light bulb moments for me because I love lists.I love spreadsheets.I have a huge To Do List is the day after shifts, not scheduling anything.Like my job is to sleep, as Brooke said, it's only four hours sleep, but the quality of that sleep is much better when your brain's not already focused forward on the things that you need to get do when do when you wake up.
So I sort of, I plan on my menial tasks and you know, just spending time with the family and being present afterwards.It's nothing.You know that retire requires a lot of concentration.So health and shift work, key concern, key challenge, definitely of emergency critical care work.
What else?What else are we talking about?I can certainly list a few from my side, but what do you guys find challenging?Let's say about the work itself to start with, like we're on the floor, we're on the shift, I'm well rested, the day's kicking on all the night.What do you find challenging?For me, when I looked back at what was contributing most and impacting my work life balance was the overtime.
And when I looked back at why I was doing so much overtime, it was the paperwork.I get through my patients OK, I get through the consults and the procedures, but I'd sit down and I'd spend 4 hours writing records and then that immediately has massive flow and effects.
So you know, we're seeing some new tools come out with AI and voice recordings, which is great.I don't tend to gravitate towards that side of things because I like writing my records and thinking through the cases I'm writing at.When I sit there and I'm looking at my PCBTV blog gas and analysing the results and then I go, oh, actually I think this patient might need more fluids than I originally anticipated.
So for me, I tend not to gravitate towards those AI alternatives.I still really like writing out my records, but I figured out how to optimize them.And that's why Toledo and I have launched templates as part of our EMV initiative.
And we have templates now that you have it on your Google document, copy and paste it into your history and just edit it or program it into RX Works or Easy Vet and have it as a preset template.So we've got templates on history writing, physical exams, differential lists.
And this is can be extrapolated to GPS and we've had lots of GPS use this and love it.You've got a lame dog.What's your differential list?Copy and paste and then delete the ones that aren't relevant.All your lab work for intials differentials for ALPALT.It's really hard at 2:00 AM to think of anything but a pedocellular injury for elevated ALT.
You know, that's as far as my differential list goes at 2:00 AM.So you copy and paste and suddenly you've got all these differentials in front of you that you don't have to think about.And we both timed ourselves writing histories now with these templates, and no joke, it's cut 50% off in our times.
I can do an outpatient in 2 minutes and an inpatient in about four to six minutes.So let me clarify how you use this.So you've got a, let's say Google Drive document with all my templates.So if you say you can do an outpatient in 2 minutes, there's obviously very various things that you'll see.
So you've got a template, a list of templates that'll be dog, ear infection, coughing, cat, or whatever.Those formats are coming by the end of the year.We will be launching something like that.At the moment it's physical exam.Here's a template of a physical exam.
You can edit it.You've got lameness in your physical exam.Here's the differential list or you're doing a splenectomy is a procedure template for a splenectomy.Copy and paste and edit as required.And then as part of it, we've got hospital handover lists, soap checklists.
So if you're a hospital vet to help you structure how you take handover, making sure you're covering everything and then your lab work differentials.So elevated ALPALT, blood gas changes, CBC changes, urinalysis imaging templates for ultrasound, a fast T fast and X-rays.
So all of those templates are available and you can either copy and paste from a Word document.It's a PDF, so you download it, copy and paste into your history and edit as needed.You just have it there on your computer ready to open and then later.
And I have written out 100 discharge summaries for almost every single condition that you can possibly think of.So we're hoping that will be a huge time saver as well.When we think about for me the most challenging things on shift, yes, it's some really challenging client interactions, particularly they don't have money.
It's, it's all, you know, sorts of chaos.Their pets just been hit by a car.That and just the sheer workload.And how can I reduce that workload?It's by having templates and structuring my shift in a way that optimizes it for me.
Productivity.And you can go into so many different areas with this as well too.Like how do you manage your shifts so that you are managing that workflow?You're in control of your workflow from the get go.So you're on, you're on the front foot with your shifts.
You're not playing catch up.You know, templates aside, I know when I'm on a hospital shift, when we come in, you take my hand over.Then in sort of rapid succession, I will go put my hands on every patient.I will then go and review their smart flow or their radar charts.
I will then speak to the owners.I will then, you know, round with the nurses and we make our plan for the day.And unless it's an L1 or L2 patient that's coming through the door, they triage and they wait here because like if something disrupts that routine, I am on the back foot and I'm catching up all morning.
I haven't called our news.They're calling at 9:00 or 10:00 AM and they're upset that they haven't been spoken to.Whereas if I can preserve that routine, I can get all of that done in about an hour.Then everyone's got a plan, everyone's on the same page, they know what they're doing.
I changed my mindset from I want to keep up during the day to I want to build myself in a buffer.I want to be ahead so that when there's another emergency that walks in, I'm already ahead.I've got everything done.Like my soaps are done, everyone's updated, my procedures are done.
You know, regulating and managing your workflow is really important to productivity as well too.As Brooke said, you're not spending.Three hours sitting down, typing up at the end of a shift when you're tired and you're not efficient.He's spending an hour and then you've done.
You've tried to keep up for the rest of the shift as well.If I'm on a consulting shift, like I will straight after all of my consults so I've seen the consult.For example, if they're an outpatient, I'll try and like do my type my entire history at the time and send it to the regular vet so they're done.
But if it's too busy and I can't keep up, then I'll at least do my history and my physical exam because that's cut.It's fresh in my mind, so I remember those details better.But also I've cut at least half of my writing time down already.
That's already done before I see the next patient.And I think the one gift that COVID gave us was triage and letting people wait.And you go into a human Ed, you're waiting for six to eight hours.And yet we feel because it's effectively private practice and the owners are paying for that service, that they have to be seen as soon as possible.
And triage is exactly the same.They don't, they can't see what's happening out the back in the treatment room.So that communication from the team is key to preserve your vets as well.So supporting the workflow with that practice has really helped.It's a big thing that might shift between appointment based GP practice and emergency and something because I I did very much and still struggle with it.
IAA person waiting in a waiting room is a stressor for me if I'm I'm sitting with my hospital patient or I'm trying to call the patient to try to write notes.I feel really bad to make somebody wait while I'm writing my notes.So I tend to still make that mistake and I'm trying to get better at it, but we have got 8 consults in a bundle that I then have to go sit and try and write histories for.
Trying to remember oh was it the left ear or the right ear or I can't remember.That one had diarrhea but not with blood and that one.So big, big lesson is to just get that shit done early on.And especially when you're 12 to 14 hours and you're not efficient and you're not recalling those details.
So yeah, it it takes intention and a conscious effort to start those habits at the beginning and then it is just automatic queue.So that was the biggest change for us.And I think also it's a practice that's taken us years to develop and now one that I protect fiercely and the nurses also understand and they'll help me do that as well too, because they then know that the owners aren't calling and annoyed and taking it out on the nurses either.
I've called the owners, I've spoken to them, they're updated so they can appreciate that workflow as well.I think that whole process of client education is so much better progressed now following COVID.But I think communicating that wait time frequently with owners and the importance of that triage process is so important.
But it's also from the vet's perspective.I won't apologize to an owner when I take them in here.You know, they might have been waiting for three hours or 4 hours when I take them into the consult room.I'll say thank you for your patience.I will not say sorry to keep you waiting because that shouldn't be our messaging.
That should not be the language that we're using.Thank you for your patience.Thank you for your understanding.We've got a busy day today.How can I help you?That's interesting because I still apologize.I still say I'm sorry for the long wait.I always thought it was.That's good.I'll consider that to say acknowledge that they were waiting but not apologizing is maybe a very good approach.
And, and demonstrate that value.Thank you for your patience.We've had some really critical patients in hospital that we've have been quite time consuming.Now how can I help you?And again, it reinforces that value not only to the client, but also to yourself.
You know, you can't do everything and then expect to leave on time at the end of the shift.And I think it's acknowledging your own value and how important that is for you because you go home on time, you can sleep well, you can spend time with your family, and you can come back and demonstrate value on your next shift.
The what you said there about the AI note taking, Brooke, I agree with you on that.Setting it to sort of exactly traditionally typing it out, you'd often think about stuff and go, oh shoot, yeah, I missed that or look at the blood.I will say that for the process that you guys are talking about capturing that history at least in between consults, I'm finding in the last six months or so, AI extremely useful.
You get the ones who record the consult and that's not always complete because I don't, I tried doing it, but it feels a bit robotic to go heart rate 132 beats per minute.So you don't always verbalize it.But what I'll do is I'll record and then as I walk out of the room before stopping recording, I'll just rattle it off.
I'll just say lift it really inflamed the heart rate and list my clinical files and I'm done.Stop recording and then I can come back to it at a later stage.And it has made my history an initial physical exam for me, which I will, I'll make a full episode on what I've learned about AI the last few years.
And then that's where the templates come in really handy for the complicated ones because you can put those templates in your AI.So when you ask it to make you a, to finalise your history, you'll click your template, you'll say, this is my GI disease template pop and it'll pre populate.So really, I think it's really cool to combine the two.
Really useful to have those templates.I agree with you.That's what I'm doing at the moment as well too in GP.So like I've adapted those templates, I use the AI and it inputs the value into that template.So it's great game change.Get with it to old lady Brooke.Come on, mate.
Boomer, I'm.Old at heart and it's one of those things I put it on my To Do List and it is something that I will get to, but I think at the moment some other things are taking priority.It's, it's definitely.I will say, you mentioned the episode I did recently on cognitive load learning to use the AII found there was an increased cognitive load initially for sure, because it's something new you have to get your head around and the temptation is to go, oh, stuff it, I'll just type please.
So yeah, do it when you have the headspace.For it for sure.All right.So you guys mentioned the word joy a couple of times.How do we bring joy into all of this?Because a crazy emergency shift, there's not necessarily a lot of built in joy in a shift like that.It could be satisfying at the end of it.
But yeah, joy's not the first word.I think I've explained joy in emergency and critical care.You have to be very intentional about it and it seems maybe a little bit awkward and forced at first.
But when you sit down and you start to recognize why you actually love your job and what you look forward to on a day-to-day basis and recognizing that.And to a degree it's gratitude.And we all know gratitude's a buzzword at the moment, but it's sitting down and recognizing that.
And once you figure out what are your three key areas of joy on a shift, you start to look out for it.You start to look forward to it.And for me, oodles are my favorite thing in the whole world.
If I could just open an Oodle hospital I would be a happy lady.It's a happy time for you there.Did vet life because there's a lot of fucking oodles out.There, I love it.So I know that if I when I walk in on shift, the first thing I will do is look around the hospital.
What is the cutest patient I'm going to have in hospital to hug tonight?And if there's an oodle, I will make a beeline for that cage.And that brings me joy and that makes me happy.And if I'm walking in on shift with not the best energy, not the best mindset, I know that is one of the things that will help put me in the right direction.
So for me, that is a joy trigger.I know that is going to elevate my mood and make me a better person to work with.And it is a conscious choice.I go, OK, I recognise that I am not in the best headspace walking into this shift.I can't walk into shift like this.
This is not OK.I'm not going to be the best team player tonight.So what do I need to do to be the best version of myself?And sometimes I won't be the best version of myself on shift, but what can I do at least make myself a little bit closer to that version?
And part of that is find the cutest patient in hospital and give it a hug.The other part of it is when you get those really cool cases, those CPRS or the IMHA that might be in Evans and you have to give it a blood transfusion, getting excited about it, taking that moment and going, this doesn't happen every day.
This is cool, this is exciting.And when owners give you compliments and just say, hey, thank you so much, thank you so much for being here instead of going, Oh yeah, sure, thanks.Have a good night.Taking that on board, really sitting with it and listening to that compliment and not letting it brush over.
And all of these are very conscious choices and decisions that you make on shift to bring that joy and bring that energy.And it's part of the reason why it's certainly Toledo's baby, this joy journal that we have.
And it's a journal that you keep in your car.And at the end of every shift, you fill in the three things that brought you joy, the three things that were the biggest wins for you.And taking that moment before you drive home and instead of driving home thinking about the things that didn't go well, you're driving home with the joy of the job in the forefront of your mind.
Again, all very, very conscious choices.But that has a flow on and a snowball effect that make this a more sustainable career.And it helps overcome the really tough parts of the job.You know, the other day we had a dream ECC shift.
It was we had six patients in hospital.Everyone got 2 checks.All the treatments were on time, I had like 3 Cavoodles in hospital.It was for me, dream shift.Everything was great.All the patients got a groom during their TPR.I got to give them all a little bit of a condition shampoo, just a little bit of a brush.
It was lovely and it did a really sad euthanasia at 6:00 that morning.But the owner was so lovely, and I'd looked after one of her previous dogs.She'd recognized me again, a joyful moment in a sad time.
And then we had this respiratory distress.Frenchie come in at 6:45.I was like, OK, got 15 minutes left in my shift.I probably need to go see this console.I don't think it can wait.And the woman was awful.
And I get that it's a really challenging time, but she was a very challenging person.And it got to the point where she was like, I just want a second opinion.And I was like, OK, that's fine, I'll get the next step for you.But that's how I ended my shift.And oh, after such an awesome shift, it was the biggest flat line.
It was such a flat line of an ending.And I could have walked out of that shift with that feeling, but instead I chose to sit in my car and purposely think about all of the good things that happened in that shift to deliberately ensure that the feeling I wasn't walking out of the hospital with was that feeling that you get.
And again, it's a really deliberate choice because your brain, when you're tired, wants to hang on to negative emotions.It's a very natural thing.So instead of letting my body do the natural thing and just hang on to that feeling, I chose to find the joy in the shift and remind myself of all the good things that happened in the 11 hours and 45 minutes instead of the 15 minutes at the end of my shift.
And it reframes entirely your mindset of how you drive home, how you sleep, how you arrive for your next shift.Like that's the difference in making our career sustainable.So if we put the shoe on the other foot hue, like if we said to you, what brings you joy in your work?
What are those joyful moments?Yeah, I it's a great question and it can be hard to sustain it because you describe the dream shift with a bad ending, Brook.But there are some shifts that are challenging where there's multiple of those things and the the barking dog and the other one is hemorrhagic diary and everything stinks.
And it can be very hard to maintain that joy on those hard shifts, especially when you get into grumpy old man.But no, it's a great question.And I do try that.And I think what Brooke said it several times, it is a conscious decision.
It's a self-awareness for me to go, all right, I don't need these things are happening.These are these stimuli.I could change my response.My first response is normally negative.I am not a naturally, you know, La La person.
I'll get pistol, I'll get grumpy, I'll get upset about that client, But then realizing, OK, now this is my mood and I don't need to sustain this mood.What happened happened.I could choose to change it and it gets the harder this the as you say, the more tired I get.For sure.It's harder to be self aware and it's harder to change it and it gets harder the more intense the emotion is.
But I can still so my joy.I'm with you, Brooke.I love, I love, I love animals.It's weird.The longer I do this job, the more I really fucking love dogs silly and I will go and I will go and find them for the victim.I always say to my team I'm very glad I'm a vet and not a doctor because the amount of cuddles that happened, I would have been in trouble legally long ago.
If I'm being a doctor, you can't just go and jump in bed with your patient and say give me a cuddle.Like a derailed decision, yeah.Yeah, totally.I'm in prison, but I love that.And the other one is the, the good case.I, I think as you get better at it, especially the tricky 1 where you go, I'm not too bad at this business.
I, I figure this out or I know what's wrong with you.You walk in the door and then moment of going, I think I know what's wrong with you.Straight off the cuff.It's nice.It's nice to feel confident, isn't it?And I think that's the biggest thing because especially in emergency, but it's applicable to any field of practice, isn't it?
But especially in emergency, the patients are sicker, the the owners are more stressed.It's the worst day of their life.It's 2:00 in the morning and they're tired.They already know that it's going to cost a lot of money because their animal is sick.So you've got all of those stresses in play immediately.
So those poor patient outcomes, those high stress moments and emotions are much more frequent.So we have to be much more deliberate about focusing on these joyful moments and just sitting with it for a second.I love sending patients home.I love really 19 owners with their animals.
And for me now, rather than just doing that as a process and then thinking about the other 10 patients in hospital I have to get back to and the three owners I have to call and the surgery that still needs to be done, I'll just sit there in that moment for five seconds, 10 seconds and just going, this is beautiful.
This is why I do my job.And I think that just raising that level of awareness is so important to be conscious of that joy.But the other really interesting thing, and I think that we often take for granted, looking back through my joy journal, is how often like I'm grateful for the team, you know, I'm grateful for the team around me.
I'm grateful that I worked with that person on the shift.I'm grateful that it was a busy shift.Everyone mucked in and it was just like you were in flow.And I think that that type of awareness is equally important too, because when you're so busy and let's face it, an emergency, it never stops.
There's no closing of the clinic.You hand the baton over to the next team and they pick up where you've left off and you rarely ever get to finish everything as you want to.And I think that it's just, it's so important to be able just to sit in that moment and be grateful for it, be grateful for the team that you work with and the opportunity to do the work that we do.
I think it's interesting, Hugh, and you asked what is the most challenging parts of a shift on ACC Toledo.And I've both said it's the workflow and the structure of shifts which are challenging and trying to navigate that.
But not once have we said it's the patients and the caseload.Or client the clients.And I think that is because a lot of people would probably say client interactions and emergency are the most difficult.And I certainly acknowledge that I work in a really quite a nice area and it does make things easier.
But I think the way that we conduct our consultations helps navigate that and the way we view client interactions.And certainly with this challenging owner, I really midway through this consultation, I was like, OK, let's let's try to flip it.
Let's make her like me.Let's figure out how this woman ticks so that I can get her back on side.And potentially it just wasn't a good day for her.It was one of those things where, you know, I say the woman was awful.I just think the interaction was awful was probably a better word.
And I just couldn't get her on side.And that's that's that.But I think when we think about, you know, how we can make this job more enjoyable and find that joy, it's when people say that the client interactions are the most challenging and we can fix that.
We can change that.We can make that you.Can make that part of the joy that's that was something else listening to you guys.But then I was sitting here thinking what is definitely more and more of a joy for me is actually that sometimes and that very much depends on my attitude beforehand, even the challenging ones.My very last shift I had two challenging cases and two emotionally charged situations.
And maybe 10 years ago, I would have gotten frustrated and maybe annoyed at the client or given them the opportunity to get annoyed at the actually at at me or or perceive them being annoyed at me.But in the situation they were upset, but they're upset at the situation.And I flipped it and went I, I am here to help you.
I'm there for the animal for sure.Well, this is what we've got in common, but I'm actually here to help you, even if your solution is not what I want for this.So 1 ended up in euthanasia that I didn't want to do, but I still was there to provide confidence, support and empathy.And there's joy in there, absolutely.
And it's so rewarding when you can get clients back on side and you figure out a solution as a team and you turn that into a joyful experience.
And it may be challenging, it may be stressful, but getting people on the same page for the common goal of their pet is such a cool thing to be able to do.And really turning that into your superpower as an emergency clinician is how can I navigate these really stressful conversations in the best way possible?
And how can I not necessarily manipulate clients?But I go into it going, how can I make this client my best friend?What kind of person do I need to be to make this person my best friend for the next 15 minutes so that we can work together?
It's how can I change the way I consult to really optimize this client relationship so I can get the best outcome for their pet?And when you start seeing that as a challenge and you start seeing it as an exciting thing and viewing owners as a team rather than as a barrier to delivering the care that you want to give to that pet, the game changes.
Life just becomes so much easier.As an emergency clinician or any vet, the minute you can start communicating with owners effectively, it no longer becomes the most stressful part.It's such a skill and it's a skill worth developing early on in consciously developing, learning how to do it and getting better at it.
I I think partially why vet science gets easier and more fun the longer you do it as you hopefully in time you learn this naturally, but it probably took me 10 years to learn it properly.If you can do it in six months, do a course, do a coaching program with Brooke the leader and learn how to do something.
I I did a shift the other night with an intern.It's brand new and it actually was so noticeable and she was lovely, like great.She'll be a great vet, but I noticed that she walked in and she was straight to the facts, straight to the questions and the consults.
And I sat there in the room going no, no, get up, touch the animal, speak to the comment on the old lady, make a joke because this is it's fine.You'll get the job done, but you're not having any fun.It's like it's almost robotic and it's like this barrier between.So learning that skill, I think is essential to the joy for sure, to the joy for sure.
All right, guys, we can talk forever.We have talked forever already and I think we're going to have to start wrapping up.Is there any, any last, are we going to do our quick fire questions or wrap up questions, but anything else that you have to get off your chest?I mean, I think the biggest thing is if you need help with emergency, just reach out to us or not even emergency.
Like how can you optimize your life as a veterinarian And how can we help?You know, just reach out to us on Instagram.So later.And I am more than happy to sit down and chat and help work through these challenges because at the end of the day, if one more vet stays in this profession, it's, you know, such such a win for us.
So yes, sure, we've got our website and our resources and there's a bunch of free resources on there as well.But that's the best thing about your Vet Vault podcasts, you that it's such a community and a space where we can all help each other.Yeah, so much.
I'm going to end with one my, my last rant, something I actually thought of this week because you talk about all the free resources.There's a lot of stuff out there like there's there's no shortage of information and yet you have people who struggle with it.And I, I had a thought this week.I, I'm for the podcast to try and develop the direction that it goes in.
I send out this survey for people to tell me what do they like and why don't they like and why do they listen.I kind of always thought that the biggest reason why people listen would be is that I struggle with something in my vet career and I want help.I want I'm sad about a vet stuff here.
I've got a pain point and I want to get it better.But it turns out most people who listen are people who love being vets and they want to love it more.And and this just made me think about it and and think why is it?It's a chicken or egg which comes first?And I think it is choose to engage with it.
It is always going to be a challenging job.All the stuff we talk about, all the practice, re management, everything else, all these things that we work on will never make it easy.It's not meant to be easy, but it's choosing to engage with it, choosing to say, well, what can I get better?
It's not saying well, this work and the moment I'm out of work, I'm done.I don't want to think about vet life because I, I had that attitude and I see that a lot.I it's just that's work and his life and I'm going to separate the two and that's my happy place.I don't think it works.I think you have to, to some extent.
So let me engage with this profession that I chose to be in and that will make me the happiest that I can be.That's right.And every job gets boring.Every job has its monotony.Every job has its own difficulty and its own challenges.And it's how do we navigate those?And as you said, you engage with it.
And as Brooke mentioned before, whether you reach out to us or you reach out to someone else, like if you have questions, find a mentor, find someone to talk to, create that relationship so that you've got that support.That's the most important part, and it's certainly something that I wish that I had when I started as a new grad or a recent grad, or even just when I was having difficulties and, you know, didn't have to burn out twice, didn't have to have severe mental health problems.
Instead, we know that there are better ways of doing these things, and I think that's the important part.Their resources are out there, you just need to find them.All right, wrap up.Podcasts Who wants to tell me what podcasts they're listening to at the moment that I need to put on my?
List besides the Jet Vault.I'm sick of listening to the vent vault.Give me something else.And the music of the BET Vault.I love the BET Vault business chapter in my life.I love the Barkside with Gerardo and Ivan.It's great.
It's fantastic anecdotal advice backed up by research, so I love that one.I also love it's the Future Women Leadership series with Helen McKay, and that one is a female leader I really enjoy.So there's a lot of storytelling behind it, but there's also enough evidence based that there's structure and a strategy as well too.
So those are the ones I'm enjoying Got.You all right, Brooke?My podcasts are a little bit more lowbrow.I love Life Uncut.It's a girl relationship podcast and two doting dads.You might enjoy this one here.Actually, it's two dads who just talk about what it's like to be parents and the shit that their kids get up to on a day-to-day basis and why they make it so hard.
Why do children make life so hard sometimes?And it's just funny.It's just something so like, do they?Do they take guests I want to be a guest on?That they do, they do.And it's just something so lighthearted and lovely to listen to.
And probably the best audio book that I listened to this year would be the Resilience Project.I listened to it as an audio book rather than read it, and I just found it amazing.Really changed the way that I approached life.
I'm not so much a meditation girl, but certainly that moment of gratitude and trying to do practice that gratitude daily is really life changing.I pass along question which I really suck at.I'm supposed to I ask a question of the guest for the next guest that I always ask the question that I forget to ask.
I get so excited about the answers.I I we have to confess I I did get Chachi PT to make answers for me.So your questions from my previous guest Chachi PT is for one of you.What is a hobby or an interest that you have that might surprise people?
Who wants to take that one?I have my hobby at the moment is propagating succulents.It's so much fun.I'm getting quite nerdy about soil types and growing conditions and the reason it started was even funnier.And that was because our catnap or kitten, now cat, eats all my indoor plants.
So the only ones I can have that she won't eat because she vomits.And she's not smart, but she's smart enough to realize that if she eats succulents, she'll vomit, so she doesn't eat my succulents.So now I've gotten right into succulents and I've got a million succulents.Start growing lilies.You'll fix your problem long term.Your cat will never eat your plants.
Eat another one.That's my daughter.Remind me to please get you to ask me a question for the next guest.But I'll get Brooke's question out of the way first.If you could live in any other country for a year, where would you go and what would you do there?I would probably, we just came back from Europe and travelling through the UK so I'd probably go live in London for a year if I had all the money in the world, not work and just Hoff all over Europe and enjoy life mate.
One of my best friends lives over in London so I think just enjoying that, slowing down and enjoying that moment.I wish I could do that.Have you ever considered living elsewhere, like doing the UK thing like so many of us did?I thought about it, but I think my big change was moving to Melbourne after five years in Brisbane, moving to Melbourne with my partner and I don't think we'd ever say no.
He works in the sound industry and recording sound for TV shows and he lived in London for 2-3 years filming that on the hill in the UK.So if we ever had the opportunity to go live overseas for his work, we probably would say yes, no matter where that job would be.
So I don't know.I haven't ruled it out, that's for sure.But if I could live in the UK and just float all over Europe, that would be dreamy.Brooke, your question for my next guest?I would say this is a tough one.If you knew what you know now about veterinary science and how challenging this career could be, would you still do it?
Or actually, would you recommend it to your kid?And that's, I think, a question that I ask myself and my future children, if I'm lucky.Yeah.I don't know.I don't know the answer.Talita, your question, I can't wait for the answer to that one because that's there's a lot of debate about that always, Talita.
I can't go past that one, Hugh.I think that's the best question because I have a daughter with The Who wants to be a vet and I ask myself that the whole time and I won't steal the next next guest Thunder, but like I would support her wholeheartedly.
And I know that my parents certainly worry worry about me.Every time that there's a new article about that mental illness or we lose another vet in this profession, my parents send me a message and just check in.So I know that they worry, but yeah, I don't know.
I don't know what it would be like if I had a child wanting to do this profession.And I think hopefully we can make some big changes.And I, again, I'd support them wholeheartedly, but it's a tough one.It's a hard job, but we love it.That's right.Yeah, one bit of advice, you're at AI used to say you're at a lecture or something talking to all the veteran new grands of the world.
But I'm going to be, I'll be cheeky and say, well, you're on the vet fault that a lot of the new grads of the world are listening hopefully.What's your one bit of advice for them?And this one I have thought about here because I know that you asked your guests that.And it's so interesting because there's so many different pieces of advice that you wish that you could say to them or to your younger self.
And they vary from don't think that you need to have all the answers to, you know, respect yourself enough to leave the table when respect is no longer served.But I think it boils down to get yourself a mentor.The best thing that you can do as a new grad, as a recent grad, as at any time in your life, is find a mentor and create that relationship intentionally with them so that they can help guide you and hopefully help you overcome some of those boundaries and those obstacles, but also help you progress your career path.
Because I think that's something there's a great ABA new grad mentor program that's out there.But beyond that, I think that's an area that's still underdeveloped in this profession, and I think it's something that we really need.So my bit of advice would be get yourself a mentor.
I think it's great.I think it would have made a massive difference in my first 55 to 10 years if I had a proper mentor.Yes, I'm right.Like even if you are thinking about going from emergency to GP, how do I do that?Better talk to a really accomplished GP vet.What do they do?You want to start a business, talk to someone who's done that process before.
How do you do that?I think it's such an important thing to do.Brooke, anything that you do, you want to add to that advice.I think something that I wish I realized early on is sometimes patients just die and sometimes we don't know why.
But sometimes, inevitably, actually they.Will die, but sometimes a patient will come in and die very quickly within kind of the 1st 5 to 10 minutes of arrival.And you can sit there as a new grad and think, if I was better, smarter, a different vet had handled the situation, maybe the outcome would have been different.
But sometimes patients are just really sick and way too sick even before they walked in the doors.And sometimes there's nothing that we can do that's going to change that outcome.So I wish I realized that sooner and was kinder to myself in those moments.
And in those moments when I was looking at all those experienced vets running around doing these amazing things and stabilizing these patients and doing CPR and stabbing a needle into its chest.And this pericardial effusion comes out and I'm just like, Oh my God.And I sit there and go feel this massive imposter syndrome where I'm like, I'm never going to be that good in that moment.
I really wish I realized earlier on and it probably would have helped me avoid my first round of burnout was the only difference between me and those other vets is time.It's the only only difference.And I think, I really wish if I'd realized that sooner again, I think I would have been a lot easier in myself.
Just time and experience and that time and experience will come.It is inevitable, so one day you will be that senior vet that you're looking at and admiring on the floor.Not necessarily smarter, not better.Just time.Brooke, the leader, thank you so much for your time here and for the work that you do in the field and for putting yourselves out there as mentors and as teachers because it's hard to do what you do.
So it's really much appreciated and and I think a lot of people will take a lot from this and from all the other stuff that you do.It's a pleasure Hugh, we love doing it, so if it helps and it's useful to another person, it's achieved, it's objective.Before you disappear, I wanted to tell you about my weekly newsletter.
I speak to so many interesting people and learn so many new things while making the clinical podcast.So I thought I'd create a little summary each week of the stuff that stood out for me.We call it the Vet Vault 321 and it consists of three clinical pills.These are three things that I've taken away from making the clinical podcast episodes, my light bulb moments.
Two other things.These could be quotes, links, movies, books, a podcast highlight, maybe even from my own podcast.Anything that I've come across outside of clinical vetting that I think that you might find interesting.And then one thing to think about, which is usually something that I'm pondering this week and that I'd like you to ponder with me.
If you'd like to get these in your inbox each week, then follow the newsletter link in the show description wherever you're listening.It's free and I'd like to think it's useful.OK, we'll see you next time.

Dr. Brooke Schampers

Dr. Taleta Hompas