March 4, 2024

#115: The Path To Zero Carbon Clinics: Transforming Veterinary Practices for the Planet. With Dr Jeremy Watson.

#115: The Path To Zero Carbon Clinics: Transforming Veterinary Practices for the Planet. With Dr Jeremy Watson.

Dr. Jeremy Watson shares his journey from veterinary practice to becoming a passionate advocate for sustainability in the veterinary field. The discussion delves into the critical intersection of climate change and animal health, emphasising the veterinary profession's responsibility to lead in mitigating environmental impact. Dr. Watson explains his experience with creating a carbon-neutral veterinary practice, highlighting practical steps such as improving energy efficiency, addressing anesthetic gas emissions, and adopting sustainable waste management practices. The conversation also explores the role of Vets for Climate Action and their Climate Care Program, designed to support practices in reducing their carbon footprint. Through relatable anecdotes and actionable advice, Dr. Watson inspires veterinarians to integrate sustainability into their clinics while demonstrating the tangible benefits for both business and the planet.

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Season 1

You know you want to do it, but you don't know where to start. It's a daunting task for sure - veterinary practice is not known for being soft on the environment, so the thought of acting to reduce the impact of your veterinary workplace can seem paralysingly complex. So where DO we begin? Well, you can begin with this podcast.

Dr Jeremy Watson is a veterinarian and practice owner. His desire to take action on climate change was put into motion in 2011 when a practice rebuild commenced, marking the beginning of his journey towards establishing a vet business with environmental sustainability as one of its core values.

In 2020, Jeremy joined Vets for Climate Action, driven by a passion to highlight the vital role of veterinary teams in inspiring urgent action on climate change. Following on from his sustainability-focussed clinic rebuild over ten years ago, Jeremy's clinic has recently snagged accreditation as Australia's very first certified carbon-neutral veterinary practice, and Jeremy now works tirelessly to get other vets on board with the same eco-friendly approach.

In this conversation, Jeremy talks us through what his experience looked like, what he learned from it, and what the 'levers' are that can be pulled to have the greatest impact in the right direction.

Jeremy also introduces us to Vets for Climate Action's Climate Care Program, a program that aims to overcome that paralysis of knowing it's a problem, but not knowing where to start. He discusses what that process looks like, what the most common stumbling blocks are, and what the short-term wins are, beyond it simply being the right thing to do.

Topic list:

04:02 - Bad Decisions and Good Stories


05:11 - The Human Nature of Climate Inaction


07:09 - Resistance to Change and Climate Paralysis


09:10 - The Climate Care Program for Vet Practices


11:40 - Surprising Environmental Impacts in Vet Practices


13:01 - Business Case for Environmental Sustainability


17:31 - The Process of Becoming Carbon Neutral


19:04 - The Importance of Reducing Anaesthetic Gas Usage


20:10 - Financial Benefits of Sustainable Practices


24:22 - The Climate Care Program's Support and Structure


28:03 - The Unexpected Impact of Bedding on the Environment

29:05 - Alternatives to Traditional Pet Cremation


32:10 - The Benefits of Going Paperless


33:01 - Joining the Climate Care Program


35:07 - UN Definition of Sustainability


36:09 - The Role of Vets for Climate Action


37:37 - The No-Brainer of Solar Panels for Vet Practices


38:41 - Importance of Collaboration in Climate Action


40:08 - Impacts of Some of Our Practices on the Environment


47:15 - The Climate Care Program's Role in Vets for Climate Action

48:03 - Global Collaboration for Veterinary Sustainability

 

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The Role of Veterinary Practices in Combating Climate Change

Veterinary practices play a crucial role in combating climate change, both through their own sustainability efforts and by influencing clients and the wider community.
Sustainability in Veterinary Practices:
  • Veterinary practices can significantly reduce their environmental impact by adopting sustainable practices. This includes implementing energy efficiency measures, such as using LED lighting and high-efficiency electric appliances, and transitioning to renewable energy sources like solar panels, which offer long-term cost savings and environmental benefits.
  • Another important area is waste management, which involves reducing waste generation, improving recycling practices, and exploring alternatives to traditional pet cremation, such as aquamation, which uses an alkaline solution to break down remains and offers a lower-carbon option.
  • Anaesthetic gases, particularly isoflurane, contribute significantly to a practice’s carbon footprint. Practices can reduce their reliance on these gases by adopting techniques like capnography, using more CRIs for pain relief, and exploring alternatives such as local anaesthesia and intravenous anaesthesia.
The Climate Care Program:
  • The Climate Care Program, developed by Vets for Climate Action, offers a structured pathway for veterinary practices to achieve net zero emissions. This program provides resources and guidance to help practices assess their current environmental impact, set targets for emissions reduction, and implement practical solutions.
  • It includes six modules that cover various aspects of sustainability, including energy efficiency, waste management, and anesthetic gas reduction. The program also emphasises the importance of engaging the entire practice team to create a culture of sustainability.
Benefits of Sustainability in Veterinary Practices:
  • Embracing sustainability offers numerous benefits for veterinary practices, including financial savings, improved patient care, enhanced marketing opportunities, and increased staff retention.
  • Sustainable practices often lead to cost reductions through lower energy and water bills and reduced waste disposal fees.
  • By adopting more environmentally friendly anaesthetic protocols, practices can improve patient outcomes, enhance pain management, and promote smoother recoveries.
  • Sustainability initiatives can attract new clients, particularly those concerned about environmental issues, and improve staff morale by creating a more positive and purpose-driven work environment.
Influencing Clients and the Wider Community:
  • Due to their trusted position within the community, veterinarians have a unique opportunity to advocate for climate action and influence clients to adopt more sustainable practices. By educating clients about the impact of climate change on animal health and recommending environmentally friendly products and services, such as low-carbon pet food and sustainable pet accessories, veterinary practices can help normalise sustainable behaviors.
  • Vets for Climate Action engages in advocacy work to influence policy changes and promote broader societal action on climate change.
Collaboration and Hope for the Future:
  • Collaboration is key to addressing climate change effectively. Vets for Climate Action actively collaborates with other veterinary organisations globally to share knowledge, resources, and best practices.
  • While the scale of the climate crisis can feel overwhelming, it is crucial to maintain hope and focus on taking action within one's sphere of influence. By embracing sustainable practices, advocating for change, and supporting organisations like Vets for Climate Action, veterinary professionals can make a significant contribution to creating a healthier planet for both animals and people.

 

Simple Changes for Big Impacts in Veterinary Practices

Many seemingly small changes within veterinary practices can contribute significantly to combating climate change and creating a more sustainable future. Here are a few examples:
  • Reduce Anaesthetic Gas Usage: Anaesthetic gases are a major contributor to veterinary practices' carbon footprint. By adopting techniques like capnography to monitor patients and safely reduce flow rates, using more CRIs for pain relief, and exploring alternative anaesthesia methods like local and intravenous anaesthesia, practices can significantly reduce their reliance on these harmful gases. This not only benefits the environment but also leads to improved patient care and smoother recoveries.
  • Switch to Sustainable Bedding: Traditional bedding materials, such as synthetic blankets and towels, release microplastic fibres when washed and dried, contributing to environmental pollution. Switching to single-size cotton towels and woollen blankets offers a more sustainable alternative. These materials are often readily available through donations from clients, creating a circular economy and reducing the need for new resources. This change also benefits the practice by streamlining bedding management and creating a neater kennel area.
  • Re-evaluate Incontinence Pads: While convenient, incontinence pads are often made of plastic and contribute to landfill waste. Consider the environmental impact of disposable pads versus washing reusable towels, and explore alternative solutions that minimise both waste and water usage.
  • Embrace Digital Solutions: Transitioning to a paperless system, like Jeremy Watson's practice did with Vetcheck, reduces paper consumption and its associated environmental impact. Digital systems also offer efficiency benefits, such as streamlined client admissions and improved record keeping. Remember, however, that even digital systems have a carbon footprint due to data storage. The key is to be mindful of both physical and digital resource consumption.
  • Engage the Entire Team: Creating a culture of sustainability requires the participation of everyone in the practice. Encourage open dialogue, empower team members to identify areas for improvement, and celebrate successes. Small changes, such as being more diligent with recycling, can lead to significant collective impact.
By implementing these and other simple changes, veterinary practices can make a meaningful contribution to combating climate change. It’s about taking a step-by-step approach, continuously learning, and collaborating to find innovative solutions that benefit both animal health and the environment.
We have these little thin plastic thermometer covers at work that are meant to keep your thermometers clean because, you know, rectal thermometers.But every time I see someone using one, it makes me think of a little thermometer condom.But that's not the mental picture that makes me hate them.
I cannot help but imagine one of these floating in the ocean.In my mind's eye.I can see it from below, backlit by a beautiful blue sky, and then I imagine a turtle coming up beside me and swallowing it, so I won't use them.But I don't take up the fight with management, even though I should.
But if I think about that fight, then I start thinking about all the plastic waste that we produce and the megaliters of water and detergent that we burn through every day to wash those pissy blankets and the reams of paper we print and sign and file and then Chuck and the air con that hums 24/7 to keep the server cool and the lights that are never off.
And and and so I do nothing because I feel paralyzed.And I suspect that's how many of us feel when it comes to global environmental issues.We don't know where to begin, so we don't begin.Which is why I love what the team and vets for Climate Action are doing by niching down the problem to my profession and to what I can do, what you can do.
We've had team members from VFCA on the podcast before, but in round three, Doctor Jeremy Watson, the chair of Vets for Climate Actions Climate Care program, talks to us about that very specific problem that I mentioned at the beginning, what we do as vet businesses that exacerbates climate damage and what we can do about it.
In addition to his role at Vets for Climate Action, Doctor Jeremy Watson is a veterinarian and a practice owner.His desire to do something about climate change was put into action in 2011 when a practice rebuild started his own journey to creating a vet business with environmental sustainability as one of its core values.
And that eventually LED them to becoming a certified net zero business.In this conversation, Jeremy talks us through what that experience looked like, what he learned from it, and the surprising things that he discovered that vet practices do that has an outsized effect on climate damage.
Basically the levers that we can pull that will have the biggest impact in the right direction.And of course we talk solutions.Jeremy introduces us to the Vets for Climate Actions Climate care program, a program that aims to overcome exactly that paralysis of.I know it's a problem, but I don't know where to start with a structured, systematic approach That hand holds clinics through the entire process.
He talks us through what that process looks like, what the most common stumbling blocks are, and what the wins are.Beyond that, it's simply the right thing to do, including wins in team culture and of course direct financial gains.Please enjoy Doctor Jeremy Watson.And please do something Doctor Jeremy Watson.
Welcome to the Red Vault podcast.Thanks you.Very pleased to be here.We've just been chatting off air about your career journey so far and your future career journey and all the plans.But I really wanna dig into to the part of your life that has become the sustainability and the environmental impact and what's happening to earth really.
And how?What are we going to do about it?Yeah.Look, obviously it's a a global issue and everyone is is concerned about it and doing something about it to some degree or other.And I guess from a veterinary point of view it's it's probably the biggest threat to animal health that we're going to face over the incoming generations.
And so I guess we've got a an opportunity and a responsibility to start looking into it and to do it and to see what we can do, you know, for the future of animal health really.So before we dig into the meat of that, can we start with bad decisions, good stories?
I I warned you about this one and I'll give you the background how this this question was born.I was driving along the freeway and back in Perth one day and it was graffiti on the side of the wall that said bad decisions lead to good stories, which immediately made me wonder about that statement.So what do you think about that?
True or false or?And do you have any examples for us?Yeah.Look, I don't know that I necessarily entirely agree with it.I guess you make decisions at the time because that's who you are with the information you have and and I guess you know you are who you are.And I think I'd perhaps like to rephrase that and saying that that perhaps taking a risk and failing is something that perhaps you can learn more from and and perhaps that's where it leads to a good story, I think is probably how I'd like to reset that.
A lesson learned rather than just a good story?Yeah, a good lesson learned Makes for a good story for sure.Yeah and I think sort of that they talk about being comfort comfortable outside your comfort zone so being able to take a risk and and it doesn't always come come off but you learn something from it.
I think when you when things don't go well so you can catch that risk as a that's a bad that risk to sit risk making decision as a as a bad decision.Yeah.Then that fits your your line that you've put out to us.Yeah.When you're talking there about, you make decisions at the time with the information available to you.
Obviously my head is in climate change for this conversation, which makes me think of what we did as a species.Bad decisions, some very, very bad decisions that at the time we didn't know it was a bad decision.I wouldn't say it's a good story.It's actually a terrible story, but it's it's certainly the story that we're talking about today.
Yeah.Look, I think, well, I mean that the whole sort of the global issue with climate change and the build up of carbon emissions and it goes back to the start of the industrial revolution really.And they were good decisions at the time because they they they obviously the the use of fossil fuels to make energy and improve lifestyles has has been a huge benefit to society over the years.
The trouble is, of course the emissions are quietly building up over time and then now we're having to deal with the consequences of that.And you know, the whole sort of wicked problem of I think is with climate change is that most people don't really make significant changes in their behaviour until they're directly impacted by the consequences of that behaviour.
But the trouble with climate change is by the time we're all significantly impacted on a day-to-day basis, we're so far down the track and it's irreversible.And we're trying to deal with a sort of a, for most of us a mental concept at the moment which is gradually becoming more and more real and have to make significant behavior changes.
And unfortunately the huge change required in in society to deal with this is is easily exploited by short term politicians, really.Unfortunately so.And it's such human nature.That's my biggest concern about this whole issue because I'm, I'm 100% in on the science.
I believe it.I believe that it's happening and then we need to act.And then personally I'll do something tomorrow because as you say the consequences aren't they're not in your face and we are such a short sighted species and and I'm guilty of it myself.
Like I was trying to think and preparing for this.I was trying to think of metaphors and comparisons and why are we resistant to doing things.It's because it's change is hard and we're comfortable with what we're doing and it's just you got to do it.It's one of those on my To Do List for one day stuff that I need to do I need to act on climate change.
It's a bit like I'm currently getting stuff together for my tax return.I've got to do it, but I don't want to do it.I've got 100 things I'd rather do.But the difference is I know that if I don't do my tax return, I'm going to be in trouble by this date.I'm going to get a fine, and if I don't pay that fine, I'm going to end up in prison.
Whereas with climate change, it still feels, yeah, it's coming.Sometime we.Don't know when.How do we deal with that mindset?Is that, is that a mindset with that you ever struggled with Jeremy?Yeah.Look, I think when you look at the sociology of of climate change and the and the spectrum of of responses in the community, you've roughly got maybe 1/4 of the population of one end of the spectrum who are actively engaged and doing something about it.
And then at the other end of the spectrum, you've got maybe 2010 or 20% of people who who are actively ignoring or actively denying it.And there's a whole lot of reasons for that, a lot of social and political reasons doesn't set their beliefs, whatever.And then I think you've got a large group like yourself in the middle, particularly people like us especially.
We've got scientific training.We get that the graphs and the science and the the big equilibrium reaction that's going on out there in the atmosphere.I guess this big group in the chunk in the middle, now it's a problem, know something needs to be done about it, but they're just not sure what to do or they're just too busy at the moment, get up, get around later, those sorts of things.
So there's a huge opportunity there, I think to make a pathway for those people to take the next step and start start dealing with these issues.So that's where I think the real big opportunity is in trying to shift the dial.I'm I'm dealing with climate change, really.And it's that pathway that we want to talk about today, specifically your your involvement in Vets for Climate Action and the climate care program for vet hospitals.
It's an audience of vets here.So we have engineers with nurses and potentially practice owners who I'm betting if you show them or if you and you tell me your experience because you're getting out there speaking to practice owners.But I'm almost certain that when you speak to people they go, damn it, that's a great idea.
Yes, we're signed up but this week I have to deal with staff issue.I've got 10 surgeries booked.This is due the a million things.You're a practice owner, you went through this process.There's always something that feels more urgent than doing this thing is one of those important but not urgent issues that they talk about that you that you need to plan for for for yourself.
Jim, because you you went through the process or question actually did you go through the process of getting your practice to net zero external to the climate care program was that off your own back?You did it and figured out that your your own pathway for yourself to get your clinic to to net 0.
Yeah.Look, it's kind of mix of a mix of my involvement which that's your common action, but it was done independently of of their resources, but just a little bit of context.So with our practice and I've always had an interest in, in particularly in sustainable architecture and you know we renovated our house in about 2006 and we did used an architect and specializes in that kind of sustainability features for for architecture and it gave us a whole lot of benefits at home.
And so in 2011, we had the opportunity to rebuild our clinic.And so I reconnected with the architect and having an interest in in design myself, we were able to collaborate and build a fabulous clinic that had a whole lot of sustainable design features.
And that was 2011 and we started to see the benefits for the team and the natural light, the the stable temperature, the the continuum.So we use special heat exchange units in the ventilation.So we have fresh air coming in all the time without losing any of the aging in winter or the cooling in summer for example.
And so it doesn't smell like a vet clinic.So we're seeing all the benefits of this.And then we started putting on some solar panels and some more solar panels and then we covered the entire roof in solar panels and all of a sudden we we discovered, well actually we're producing more power in a year than what we use.And solar panels are great for vet clinics because you use your power in the daytime.
So I thought, you know we must be carbon neutral.And I thought, oh, maybe I'll look into this a little bit more.And and also as a time I'd I'd connected on the vets for climate action on that and a group of I'm really enthusiastic and talent, I'm vets and vet professionals who were developing the climate care program.
And I thought what is it to become carbon neutral what's required And through some other connections I had connected up with an auditing company and we went through the process.And so it was, as much as anything it was to find out what's involved rather than specifically wanting to be carbon neutral.
Really it was a fact finding mission to start because there were no other practices in Australia that had done it than I knew.Although I've since discovered a couple who've gone through the process and quite some time ago, but haven't gone through a registration official registration like we have.Right.So your wife for doing this, there's almost like a a gradual thing.
It started more out of a a love for design and curiosity and and you obviously knew it was an issue or or was there a particular thing that moved you to do this to to go because again I I think for a lot of practice owners and veterinarians the this this yes I should do it but you need that you need that push to say OK just do it.
It's the it's the commitment of time and energy for you.What pushed you?Was it just the well I wanted to design a cool clinic or?A little bit of that, but look, the cold climate issue has been urging me for, well, since since the last 30 years really.And it's been really come on the radar and so we've started to make personal decisions to try and be more sustainable.
And so it's something that I've always wanted to progress in my life.And it's been particularly frustrating through the last 10 years of Conservative government we've had in Australia who've really just been not interested in in progressing the the, the dealing with climate change.
And so the solution to that really is to develop your own strategies within your own networks and keep working on that and let the political cycles roll around.And I guess part of the thing we're trying to do with Vets for Climate Action is use vets connection with the wider public and 60 or 70% of the public owned pets or have connection with animals is to normalize our actions on dealing with climate change and the net zero strategy.
And then encouraging our clients to this is an important animal health issue.You need to get on board and support us and what we're doing.And so that ultimately you're building a large base which will support the politicians to then deliver better policies and the politicians will if if there's enough widespread support, it's it's social, it's political, it's scientific, all of those.
I love the, I love the mix of all this and business as well in trying to find a way forward.That's what I'm really interested in.So it's a push for culture change really national for local and then national and then global culture change.
I I love learning and listening to stuff about culture just specifically business culture and stuff like that and I'm I'm a big fan I often talk about him but Seth Godin he has a his definition of culture is people like us do things like this and his theory is that culture has changed from the bottom up usually usually not the leadership in the clinic who they can set the tone for the culture but you but but as a as a team member or something like that by your actions you can influence the culture around you until it becomes the new norm.
People like us do things like this so it's what we're trying to do with vets for climate action.A case of as a group as veterinarians as let's say respected people in society we hope mostly saying we're doing it like this and then all the people we interact with to make it as you said to make it normal to say OK net 0 efficiencies.
This is what we should do as a society and then hopefully as we spread that, that it pushes up towards the politics rather than us waiting for the politicians to say all right, electric cars only or building restrictions to go, actually, no, we expect you to change the laws.Is that right?
Is that a a fair assessment of what we're trying to do?Yeah.And like there's a lot of moving parts to that, but certainly the base, what we're what we call base building is what we're trying to achieve.So normalizing the net zero or or or or sustainability profile if you practice and the vets are one of the most you know when they do surveys and professions vets very highly as a as a trusted professional within the community.
And so yeah if my vet's doing it, hey yeah maybe I should think about this carbon positive pet food that he's recommended or this this range of carbon neutral agent collars or those sorts of things.So when we, we did a a survey of our clients for hospital visits and it's just a survey major with five questions and we had, we did it just over a couple of months and we added a question on with which we, I think the question was something like we've become carbon neutral for the future of better future for animal health.
How much do you value this and a 16 out of 23 rated at four or five out of five.So I think that that there's quite approval of what we're doing.It's not so, so active as well.So, Yeah, and it's just back there on how you talk about government intervention.
There's a lot of a lot of moving parts to the whole dealing with climate change.It's such a global and intersects with everything we do in the communities.Government regulation is a really powerful tool if we can get it implemented.
And there's a there's a thing called the in policy in government policy development, they call the Overton window.Have you heard of the Overton window?Basically it's it's where an idea starts out as ridiculous to then becomes radical then becomes kind of a bit weird to to normal to becoming acceptable for becoming policy sort of thing And and so this window shifts on ideas and so they become more and more popular And so the politicians and and and my son worked in a in one of the federal government departments and policy developments and I asked him about and said Oh yeah we use that all the time.
We'll dust off an old idea that the change again, we'll pull it out and we'll see where that sits in the open window now.And So what we're trying to do is get net zero and sustainability shifted into the Overton window such that it just becomes normal.Yeah.OK, can I ask you about about your process?
It's been a while now, but your process for for your practice, because I think this will be of interest to a lot of beats listening.You talk about the sort of unexpected wins of the redesign of the practice.So you said clean air and things like that were were there things, were there repercussions of moving towards carbon neutral that you didn't even envisage as an advantage, but that became a win for the practice or for the team specifically?
Yeah, I think that's more so.I knew we had all the physical wins with it.It's the it's the the great natural light in winter, which is great for people's mental health to be operating theater in.In it's like a sunroom in winter and it's bathed in warm natural light so you can quietly just spend half an hour and stretch out of the spy while standing in the sun and and so that's good for for people's mental health.
But the process of becoming carbon neutral really looks at all of the activities of the business and anything that's likely to produce emissions.Probably the big learning moment out of all of that has been the impact of anaesthetic gases really.And so anaesthetic gases are about 7% of their carbon footprint.
So particularly isofluorine is a very potent greenhouse gas and nitrous is also extremely potent and we're just venting it out of the atmosphere.So it's pretty much like getting refrigeration gas and squirting it out in the atmosphere every day, you know, If people want to want to calculate the amount of emissions from their from an anaesthetic, there's an excellent app you can get from Yale University called Gassing Greener.
And download that on the phone and you put in your flow rate and your isofurane percentage and the weight of the patient and then it tells you how many, how many kilograms of CO2 that's released and what equivalent to driving how many miles in a car.And that's what I mean.So it makes the kind of neat comparison, but I guess it it's been a big awareness since.
Go.Wait, wait, I've got.I've got to interrupt you.So give us a put it in.Just as an example, let's say an average 30 kilogram one hour surgery.How far am I driving my my ram truck down the highway?Has it come back that?
Might be 20 or 30 K's.I'd have to.I'd have to look it up.It's quite.Significant.It's significant.Wow, yeah, I know, I interrupted you.I was just fascinated.That's that's interesting.Yeah.So and so just on the anaesthetic gas and so we've done a kind of systems review.
So maybe I'll backtrack a little bit.Part of part of the registration with Climate Active which is who we're registered with, which is currently the most as I understand it the most rigorous carbon registry in Australia.And part of that is you have to also submit an admissions reduction plan for the next 10 years.
So this kind of aligns with our national roles of of 45% reduction by 20-30 and and that also then aligns going down a rabbit borough here but there's the science based target initiative which is the internationally recognized target setting for emissions reduction.
So any a particular corporate organization that has to embark on a credible emissions reduction needs to be guided by their guidelines as to what they're actually doing.Is it actually a meaningful reduction?And so that means having a A2050 target, ideally net zero and then a 20-30 target or typically it's 5 to 10 years.
So it's 20-30 at the moment that you're now standing here in the media are at 2035 targets because you if 2030 is coming to us so it's no longer a 10 year target.So that kind of thing is, is happening but if you don't have a midterm target you can't get to 2049.So how we're going to get stuck into this and realize that you've got no chance.
So yeah so so you need to do with climate active, set an emissions reduction plan and you've got your scope one, scope two scope 3 emissions.So your emissions are broken up into scope 1-2 and three scope one is emissions that are produced on site, so direct emissions, so like burning gas in a heater practice vehicles used and owning the practice.
And the other big one for us is anaesthetic gases.So in our practice we got rid of all our gas appliances and swapped over to a new generation.High efficiency electric appliances saved money.We can run it off our solar panels.So that was an obvious one to do and in scope two is your grid purchases of electricity and so depending on where where you are that will be very according to how much fossil fuel is used in your power generation.
So somewhere like New Zealand which has a lot of hydro.The scope two are going to be quite low.In Victoria we still have a lot of coal-fired power stations.So consequence higher and in scope 3 is basically anything else your business does that that generates an emission side, employee commute, travel for conferences you're used in, delivery of supplies, that sort of thing.
So Skype three is where all the difficulty is, but scope one and two is where the opportunities are because you have direct control over them and so.So back to the anesthetic gases.You said anesthetic.Gas counts as scope one.That's in that category.How do you deal with that?Because again, as a I'm imagining, I'm not a practice owner at the moment, but if I was, I'd admitted to go, well, what can I do about that?
Because I need, I need density gas.Can you improve that?So the process of looking around acidic gas kind of highlights the process that's commonly used in any emissions reduction strategy in the corporate sector, which is to analyse the process and then ultimately engage all the stakeholders in the process to try and find a zero or reduce carbon alternative.
So starting our practice, we're just looking at what we're doing.And so there's an obvious thing of reducing flow rates.We were taught to just turn up your oxygen, put your ISO on too, way you go, forget, forget about that and do your procedure.That's fine.But times have changed.
And so you can immediately start being more careful with your flow rate.And the other thing that we've started to introduce is capnography.And I know we probably should have had this a long, a long time earlier, but and they need to just tell us that this is essential.I guess our little problem with capnography has been that the units have always been a bit fiddly and and so the nursing team get a bit annoyed with it and then they don't bother using it and consequently it falls off the radar.
But where we've introduced that, reintroduced that and that enables you to reduce the flow rates safely and know that the patient's circulation ventilation is adequate.So.So reducing flow rates is is an obvious one.And then the other things that we've started to discover is use more CR is for pain relief and and turn your anesthetic down.
So that becomes another profit center.The nice is love it because the patients are having a much smoother recovery and we're managing our analogies here a lot better now.I guess we've gone from from somewhat sloppy anesthesia to much more focused anesthesia.It's made us look at the process a lot more and deliver better patient outcomes, another profit center.
And then we've moved to things metatomic and pre meds for example.And so that's enabled us to use much, much less anesthetic gas and particularly for short healthy procedures, we just use little top ups of Halifax and to just run to an oxygen.So that's an easy win.
And then local anesthetic.So like for castrations, I thought it was, I used to think it was a bit of a gimmick, but now I can see there's huge benefits in doing that.And so there's also intravenous anesthesia and intramuscular anesthesia.And so there's lots of options there to solve this.It just there's a lot of retraining required and there needs to be a world to do it.
But I love that because the the app shot and you can decide which one do you put as the primary goal.But it's better medicine, better in aesthetics.It's it's safe, it's better patient outcomes, as you say.And it also happens to be more climate friendly.So you can choose as your goal climate or is it for the patient?
But either way, it's a win.And it's interesting, it's good to learn new stuff.Everybody loves learning new skills.It's it's there's resistance to it.But but you're right, the old 15 years ago or 10 years ago, it's literally just a patient's moving crank up by the crank up the gas and there's no thinking behind that well, what else can I do?
So it's really good.I have that and.This, you know what I was getting back to before you were talking about about government regulation.Eventually that's going to come into play.For example, I think in Scotland they banned this fluorine and sic because it's really significant greenhouse gas.And so potentially down the track, there's going to be more and more government regulation as community expectations ramp up.
I wanted to give you a quick update on our specialist support space.If you haven't come across it before, we can head into a space where you can interact with a group of specialists to give you case support on those tricky case conundrums that you face in everyday practice.The space is housed on the same app where our subscribers get their show notes, which is a super nifty tool where you can upload photos or videos or even chat live to the specialist if the case requires it.
The idea with this is that you have a direct guilt free line of communication with somebody who can help you out with those cases that you can't refer or you don't want to refer, but you just need a little bit of extra brain power to help you make decisions or take your thinking.We started off the space with the support in medicine and emergency and critical care and in the last month we added support in dermatology, veterinary oncology, as well as support specifically for those tricky diabetic cases.
Our subscribers will have listened to the episode with Doctor Linda Fleeman on using basal insulin in your patients.For a complete.Paradigm shift in how you manage your diabetic patients.But this has led to a lot of questions for Doctor Linda.So we decided to get her on the space so she can answer your questions directly.
It is a paid space but we've kept it as affordable as possible at about $15.00 a month.We can ask as many questions as you want and expect a same day turn around time.We've put the link for the space in the show description wherever you're listening to this.So if you feel like you can use a little bit of extra help, go and check it out today.
OK.Back to Jeremy.OK, so anesthetic gases?With the other surprises are the needle movers that you didn't see as a as a potential problem.Let let's say things that were harmful to the climate that you didn't really have on your radar for a start.
Yeah, certainly anesthetic gases was a big one and then you know things like pet cremation for example is another significant component of our footprint and you know gas using for pet cremation and so that was another eye opener and then so doing a bit of research you know there are lower carbon alternatives.
So Acclamation is now available widely used in America, and is now available in some states in Australia.What's acclamation?Sorry.Yeah, so the the bodies are put into a stainless steel tank full of sodium hydroxide.
So it's like caustic soda heated up to about, I don't know 90° and that over a period of that 24 hours dissolves all the soft tissue into a kind of a soup and you're left with the bones and mindful, obviously not.Nothing I didn't realize is that with with fire cremation you still got the bones left that then have to be ground up and that becomes the ashes.
It doesn't also form a a neat pile of cigarette ashes in the middle of the cremator.There's bones left that are ground up.That's what you get.So with Aqua motion, you get the bones left and then they just get air dried and ground up and that's what you get back.So you get a little bit more back because they're not kind of as as as destroyed as they do in fire cremation.
And then you've got this soup of sodium hydroxide, which is actually very high protein soup and you can actually use that as fertilizer.Yeah.So so there's an end product there as well and there's there's an excellent video on maybe it's on vein of a vet practitioner in Outback US who does it in a barn and then she gets a pickup truck and she pours all this kind of clear syrupy liquid into this big tank and has a pipe at the back with holes drawn into it and drives around the paddocks dribbling this fluffy.
Fluffy and Mittens become, well, it's it's natural.That's what happens to all of us.We end up in the back of the food chain again, so there we go.Yeah.And also I've heard of terramation as well, which I think is like a composting process.I don't know much about that one.But but yeah, there's there's, there's there's low carbon alternatives.
And in talking, we've started to talk to our cremation supplier.Well, hold on, what are you guys doing to reduce your emissions?And I say we actually, we are looking at things like hydrogen cremation and other alternatives once you start to look at it.And again, like I'm going to show you gas.And when you start looking at how actually there's this and this and we can do this, unless there's opportunities out there, it just means a will on a goal to drive it really.
Yeah, so let's let's get to that.Because I talked before, maybe we can pivot into the the specific climate care program with vets for climate action, because I listen to all this and I'm fascinated, but I'm fascinated and interested in 1000 things.And if I was a practice owner, am I the best person to drive it?
Who?How do you guys find how do people implement this in a sensible way so that there is somebody who is taking steps every day, taking action to make these things happen?Yeah.So you really need management buy in at the top to to to set it up really.So you know without the support of management that you can't really just have a a motivated individual within the practice who's frustrated because they don't have any resource and stuff.
So you really need to get the practice owners on board.So this is something that you need to to use in your OR or set up in your practice and really I guess it's about getting back to that culture world.It's about setting up a culture of sustainability within your practice.And so practice owners need to understand that that this new culture of sustainability needs to align with your other business strategies.
So your standards of care, your budgets, your marketing, your staff retention, all of that.It it it fits into all of those business strategies that you already have.But it needs to become a culture within the place because it's ongoing.
It's not to do someone year and then that's done and more forget about it.It's it's like the those other programs like a hospital of excellence or a fear free clinic or whatever it's ongoing and so you need that that that cultural shift in your practice and your team to help keep driving things like recycling or hassling the the suppliers for for more sustainable and delivery options and those sorts of things so.
So in terms of resources and by resources, time and money, how resource intensive is it to to be a much more sustainable clinic?Yeah, look, so, so why the process works is that you nominate a climate champion within your practice and then they, they're the one who accesses the online modules that we have 6 modules.
And then so and each of the modules follow through on that sort of change management principle of the why and then the how and then the repetition required to embed the change and then the measuring success and rewarding the time and then the the Vince and repeat type process that you need to embed change.
So all the modules gauge that process in terms of time.Ideally you'd have this person maybe during one or two hours a week, so that could be like 4 hours a month or something like that.It does vary a little bit depending on what style of practice you get.And then some of the things would be done by external organizations, for example, say solar panels and batteries, LED lighting, that sort of thing, where you can part of the program engages with an external nationwide company that specializes in energy audits and that sort of thing.
So when you get to the energy efficiency module, you can say, right, I will, we'll get these crowded and see what they say.And typically you may need to invest a certain amount of money, but you'll more than get that back in in savings over the time.So there's, there's those sorts of issues and then there's smaller expenses or I shouldn't use expenses investments, smaller investments that you can make like changing the water filter on your tap.
You can cut your water and use hand basin usage by 60%.Just by doing that, there's being more diligent with your recycling.For example, a nursing team came to us a few years ago and said, look, we need to get another landfill again, we're too full.And then we that was at the time we're engaging in developing the climate care program.
We said hold on, let's let's look into our recycling.And then all of a sudden we went down to three bins instead of four, and a saving of $50 a week at the time, and that almost pays for the for the program in one in one change.OK, well, let's let's start with numbers first to give people an idea.If somebody's listening to this and they're interested back step actually.
So with the climate care program.So if somebody's listening to this going, yeah, I love the idea.I've been wanting to do this for five years, but I don't have the the time and the capacity to go and research all of this stuff.So the climate care program that's sort of a done for thing or at least a hand holding through this process.
Is that correct?It really steps people through the process and and look, that was the the I did a presentation at the ABA conference last year and we surveyed the ordinance and said why what's what's holding you back?And most of them people said I don't know where to start.That was the most common response.So and you know when I got involved with this, I didn't even think of wall, I was thinking solar panels, electricity and that was it.
And didn't realize that when you look at sustainability, there's a whole lot of other opponents to water energy efficiency, wastes, microfiber, plastic pollution and acidic gases etcetera, etcetera.And the UN definition of sustainability is, is meeting the needs of present of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.
So basically not dumping waste for the next generation to deal with.So when you're doing something MI leggings for next generation to deal with is probably a really on the ground way of of thinking about it.So, so there's there's financial savings, absolutely, and they vary depending on how how much you want to engage with it.
But you'll definitely get your money back.Of the two and a half $1000, you'll easily get that back.Is that the climate care program cost is 2 1/2 thousand?Yeah.That's for the third year and then they'll be ongoing.We're building enhancements in it to include things like a carbon calculator.
And so you can start practicing and and report it, measuring and reporting the carbon footprint and that's particularly attractive to the corporates because they're subject to once you get out of a certain number of employers, I think 200 you're required to in the coming years to start measuring and reporting your footprint.
So it's going to become a necessity for some people initially and eventually probably for everybody.It's not a.It will filter down yet.So 2 1/2 thousand that sounds like an easy easily retrievable amount by relatively minus savings.When you start talking about big changes like the like solar or design changes and things like that, that's obviously a more significant investment.
And and the answer to this I'm guessing will vary very much country to country in, in Australia is that spend retrievable through savings through electricity and that because it's all depends on the feed in rates and all that sort of stuff.Have you personally found does the savings in electricity bills offset the investment you made to go solar?
That's what they call no brainer that one solar panels last about 25 years.It takes you about 5, four to five years to recoup your investment and then you get you get 20 years of free electricity.So and the big thing in like in general practice is we're doing most of our work in the daytime.
So we're not feeding it in, we're using it and so, so additionally in our practice now two of the partners have got electric vehicles and so we charge that up during the daytime and for nine months of the year we have this because we've got so many solar panels, we've got a surplus of power that would have been traded into the grid.
Well we'll fill up our cars with that and you can you can charge an EV for 400 KS for $5 on a six cents feed in tariff.So it's that's that's another benefit that that that we didn't factor in as well.So yeah, so and you can get finance to to put in solar panels.
So it's just an obvious business decision to do that.Yeah.So, so beyond the the ethical reasons and the well, it's not even ethical.It's the long term survival of the species reason reasons to do this there is actually short term, but it actually makes financial sense for the most part as well.
See, seeing as we are such short term thinkers.Look, it's absolutely about the business case really.And we recognize that the changes are going to have to be made in in what is run as a business.And so if we can build the business case for the sustainability within your clinic and the financial component of the business case is part of it, but it's also your marketing, your staff retention, attracting and particularly the Gen.
Z millennials, they're they're looking for practices that are demonstrating these credits and that's been our experience that the business case is quite compelling.Now as as more and more new green technology become available and there's a widespread expectation within the community that more needs to be done and you see the supermarkets advertising their net 0 credentials that's wide on television and billboards etcetera.
Now that the footballers and that is the football at our local football stadium was advertising at half time to help their net zero strategy by getting public transport to the football.So you know that they're bundling up with their business case, but also the social and climate imperative of of dealing with this it.
Sounds like another no brainer.The whole thing sounds like, yeah, you should definitely do it.You guys talk to practice owners on the ground.What's the You said time.Time is the first thing, but since what's the biggest resistance you meet in starting this process and what's your rebuttal to it?Your time is definitely the biggest thing because that practice under a lot of time pressure and introduce a new program to the team is just for poking them in an eye or poking them in the eye when they've got so much else to do.
So it's not such a good idea.But your cost is a little bit, you know, we can easily demonstrate that that you'll recruit the costs.And then I suppose it's about about change.Most of the people that come to us already interested in wanting to do something and don't know where to start, that's probably the biggest thing.So there's that motivation there.
They're interested.They say, yeah, I'll get back to you.They don't get back to us.We contact them.Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it.Yeah.But that's that's how our decisions are made in, in practice.In my experience, we went through that.We were one of our strategies was to to go paperless.And so we looked at a paperless, the hospital management system for anaesthetics and all that kind of and hospital admissions and all that sort of thing.
And so we saw our system.Yeah, that's great.They came out, they talked to us.Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll do it.We'll do it.More emails.Yeah, we're onto, we're onto it.And I know six months later we just rang up and said let's go kind of thing.So I thought, well, that's been my experience of that.Great new program which involved change and I suspect that that's practitioners are going to have that same sort of approach.
So we've just got to keep being persistent and eventually more and more will come on board and then we can get word of mouth and and then and I think there'll be wider pressure from the community as as the common issues continue to escalate and they will, it's inevitable and more and more people say hey you or hey those guys are doing it we we better start doing it as well.
I can't let you get away without telling me what paperless system you went to, because I bet you people are listening to this guy.Oh oh, which one?Which one works?Does it work?Do you like it?Yeah, it's fed check and which integrates with our system.Yeah, it's interesting process of change management.Everyone thought, yeah, that's a good idea then we get the system.
So we had to buy more iPads than the Wi-Fi wasn't up to it.So we'd upgrade the Wi-Fi and then people got sick of tapping on screens and why can't we just tick a box on the paper.And but you know we've also got had to put in a little shed in the backyard to store boxes and paper that no one ever reads however it is five or six years so that was so printing and that sort of thing so so then people drifted back to paper and then we keep having the team reading and and and that repetition to embed the new change and now we we wouldn't ever go back to to paper.
It's just so many extra benefits that you can add into that system.New drug, the calculators there, client admissions are all streamlined and interestingly how photocopier contractors come up for renewal and we were paying $600 a month and they've looked at our copying and So what you really haven't need a $300.00 a month contract now to to the amount of printing that you're doing.
So.So just having a focus on on less printing is is saved as significant amount of money as well.So cool.So you said your system does client admission forms and everything digitally as well.Yeah, that that should.That should be the way.It makes no sense not to do it for other reasons as well, just for efficiency reasons.
Yeah.Interesting though that you think great, we're populist, so that's zero emissions.But the when we do our carbon audit now we have to identify how much we spent on online software and there's a carbon footprint for that as well because there was an interesting documentary on on TV recently about the the carbon cost of the cloud.
And so for example in Ireland there are these huge data storage factories that are consuming I think 15% of island's electricity.In data management's all these photos and moving that we take and store in the cloud, it takes energy to store that.So that now feeds into your carbon.
It's small, but it feeds into your carbon calculation because these cloud systems do consume energy somewhere.So much smaller than paper.Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.And also paper's got the other thing, you don't have the physical don't paperless, you don't have that physical issue of of from a sustainability point of view on the chopping down trees and making them into carrying them into printing them, getting ink and all the other things, yeah, much better.
OK, Jeremy, is there anything else for the climate care?Well, other than the obvious question is how do people get in touch?If somebody listens to this and they go, yeah, sign me up, let's go.How?How do they?Who who do they contact?They just go to our website.That's climate action and just looking at the climate care program and then you can have a look at at the details there and and register they're really straightforward and and our team can and that's the common action can help you from there with onboarding is.
There anything about the climate care program that I haven't asked you yet that, that you think should be underlined?Look, there's lots of different components to it.One of the really cool things that that's worked well in our practice is a betting review.So when we were looking at water usage and the impact of what your water uses in the practice on the environment, the one of the issues that came up is micro fiber plastic.
So I don't know really much about that, but every time you wash a synthetic and you dry it, it's releasing micro fiber plastic into the water and into the air.And this stuff is accumulating in the Antarctic and krill and all this sort of thing and it's, it's everywhere.And there was a recent ATV show, the The Chaser used to be the chaser that they do a environmental from a consumer point of view.
And and the guy took his fecal sample into a lab and had analyzed and found that there's microfiber plastic in just a routine fecal sample down through his guts.This, this stuff is everywhere.So the resolution to that was to get rid of synthetic bedding.And actually it was really good because I know what your practice has been like in practice.
I've worked and you go into the kettle area and there's piles of different shapes of blankets and towels and all that sort of thing that had been donated and left by Pets of the euthanize, etcetera.And there's no sort of standard approach to making up a bedding.So what we decided to do was pull out anything that was synthetic.
We stuck that in a box and sent it off to a company that specializes in recycling of this stuff. 77 kilos we had of synthetic bedding to get rid of and we only have single sized cotton towels that are donated to your clients who are always willing to donate bath towels for you.
So single sized cotton towels and then we have two sizes of woolen blankets for throw overs to keep patients warm and they're all second hand.So it's the circular economy and that's it.So it's much leisure, it's, it's a good system and then it's when we wash and dry these things and there's less washing and drying because you're only using an appropriate size piece of material for the cage.
You know, it's not releasing microfiber plastic.So yeah, that's just like one of the really cool things in the program.So plastic containing bedding, would that be the standard standard vet beds that you get?The fluffy, fluffy bed beds that's supposed to be not as absorbable, so P seeps through it.
That's that's plastic.Yeah.Everybody listening to this is going, oh shit, oh shit.I'm not, you know, in the scheme of things, you know, it's not going to make a huge difference, but it highlights the principle and actually it's a much better of the team like it because the bedding is so much more organized now.
So apart from the environmental benefits, it's better for our systems in the hospital.And then once a year we'll go through and and what happens is that euthanasia patients will load their bedding and so it accumulates again.And so then once a year we'll go through and so we'll have an annual audit and see if we need to get some more towels and and do our annual bedding review then.
I'm assuming that those incontinent pads, absorbable pad type things are also plastic but not so good for the environment because then you get caught in loops because then I go OK, but if I just use a towel then does that kind of mean more washing?So versus an incontinence bad, I can just take it off the towel and Chuck it in the bin versus a towel will have to be washed which is detergent, which is water and then where you start weighing up, is it a clear cut call on this one?
You know that you said Chuck it in the bin.So where's that kind of guy?That's your.I know, I appreciate it.So that that which is I'm trying to figure out which is worse more water usage and and detergents and stuff or or how do you deal with that?Yeah.I mean that's a complex sort of calculation, but I guess we're trying to use less and better.
It's really what what the focus is.So let's talk to washing detergents and then minimize the amount of size of item that we're going to have to wash and reuse it.Yeah.So you know, I haven't actually done the calculation on the the alternative that we didn't even consider it.So you know it's disposable.
Yeah, bigger picture for vets and climate vets, for climate action.I did have was a benches that the one of the previous guys.It's about two.It was 2020.We had him on the podcast to talk about what's happening, has anything shifted or changed for this society, for vets and climate action in terms of strategy or what we're doing?
I don't mean nitty gritty daily daily details, but is there anything new or anything we should know about?About vets and climate action.Well, no, the main thing I focus mainly at the moment is on on getting the the climate care program established.So we're going to have a launch and coming up in May this year and then there's the ongoing advocacy work that we do.
So really, you know, what we're trying to do is use this program to support the activities of the organization, to do more advocacy, to influence ultimately to get better policy, really.Because if you can get policy change, you can.That's a huge driver of change in the community.
So as the government directs them, you've now got to do a carbon order.If you practice that, that gets a whole lot of people moving.But they don't do it if there's widespread support for that.And we've got 36 former Chief Fenry officers as part of our organization.They know about policy development, They know how government work and that we can use their resources to have input into policy.
So that's one of the other important things that we do is the advocacy work.So to structurally understand the strategy really rates for climate action is a big picture, stuff that you guys are doing with policy and advocacy.But to support that and to do good work with that, it's on the boots action is the climate care program, but that is also a way of of funding the other work that gets done.
Yeah.Look, it's a social enterprise really.So we can use that to fund our other activities.And the other, you know, if there's one sort of word that you want to take away for, for dealing with climate change, it's collaboration.I think is probably the biggest thing that we need to you need to appreciate.
So we our organization, the one of the founding members of the organization, Jeanette Kessels, is a real force within the organization and she has been doing a lot of networking with international groups.So there's a vet sustained in the UK, there's Icavito in the UK and the US is a bit slow to get on board, but they have actually formed a sustainability group with the Canadians.
I can't quite remember the name at the moment, but they're networking with international groups to try and share ideas and develop policy.For other resources, you you recently published an an article, actually a scientific article in Is it Frontiers of Science?
Tell us more about that and and where can people go and find that and read that?Yeah.OK.I was recently involved in the collaboration with three other excellent veterinary professionals, so Kareena Klupierk, Jane Bingloss and Marion Marine.And so it's sort of the the genesis of this came off the back of a course I did through Cambridge University about a year and a half ago on net zero for business.
In the last module of the programs that you need to then go out, you had to to put together a plan of what you're going to do next that will that will create some sort of improvement in climate action in your sphere of influence.And so my plan was to to write a paper on net 0.
But having never written a paper before I needed to connect with people who knew more about this and and connected up with three other great professionals and they were keen and so we worked on that and over a period of about it took about 6 / 6 months and first time I've done that.
So it was a whole new process for me.But yeah, the outcome is a paper in Frontiers and Veterinary Science called the Past to Net 0 carbon emissions for veterinary practice.And it really is is a business case for Yu would want to implement a net zero strategy in your practice and then how to go about it.
I'll put a link for that in the show description and the show notes as well if anybody wants to read the business case for earned interest or take it to your boss and say here we go boss, This is why we should do this.Exactly.That's what I want them to do.Great resource.All right, the little quick fire questions to wrap us up.
Jeremy the The first thing is, are you a podcast listener?Yes, I do listen to Achieve podcasts, yes.Favorites what what should be on my playlist?Well, I'm doing Australian politics and there's one on the ABC called Matt Bevin if you're listening and he did a whole series on global leaders and like Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un and those kind of guys.
So I think I'm really fascinated by the politics and how these guys tick.But the one I like on long road trips and done a couple of long road trips last year with my son because he needed to get a the hours up for his license.And there's one called the Wanderer.It's AUS based one American scandal and they, you know, over a period of four or five episodes will look at a significant American social financial issues such as the Rockefellers or the Volkswagen emissions scandal or the Enron and the Exxon Valdez and those sorts of things.
So I I find those sorts of things really fascinating and I present them really well.So there there are a couple of ones that I've enjoyed, yeah.I should try that.I'm apolitical since moving to Australia.No, no, no, out of principle.I just find Australian politics very boring.For the most coming from South Africa where politics is quite extreme.
Here I'm like so it just takes care of it.So I should give that as a try and see if I can get some enthusiasm going for for Australian politics.Sounds great.The pass along question Jeremy, where I get a previous guest to ask a question for my next guest, Sam Bowdens asked what do you consider the most important human trait to ensure success in business?
I think integrity is really the the key for me.Yeah, integrity is the most important thing I think now and that really encompasses trust, but also following through and delivering on what you support that you are about.And so you know obviously you need trust with your, your business partners, you need trust with your team and you need trust with your clients and your suppliers and you build that up over time and they get to know that you could be trusted that this is how you go about things.
And so I think really integrity would be the probably the biggest single thing I think you need to make business work.Can you cultivate integrity, or do you have it or you don't?Yeah.Look, I think you can learn it to some extent.And now we all, I think growing up fiddle with it at the edges in terms of telling fibs or whatever and realizing the consequences and you start to learn, oh, OK, I get caught out if I do that.
So maybe that's not a good road to to follow generally and and so I'm getting back to you first thing about bad decisions but I'm saying taking risks and I suppose you know you take a risk by telling a lie or or or cheating on someone or whatever and then it comes back to bide you and you think OK, well I have my time again I wouldn't do that.
So I went, I'll learn for that moment.And going forward you realize that you need that, that integrity to to be successful.Really.Any any books?That have changed how you think about things or made a big impact on you in the last couple of years?Yeah, look, one of the ones that I've found really useful in terms, particularly in dealing with the emotional response to climate change, because we're all frustrated people that are complete climate deniers.
People that know about it, that don't do anything.People that are so puritanical and active that it's becomes annoying because they're doing so much more than you and they make you feel bad.So there's all these different emotional responses out there in the communities.And how do we kind of make sense of that and then try and leverage those emotions to create change, really.
And so the book I'm referring to is is 1 by an Australian social researcher, Rebecca Huntley, how to talk about climate change in a way that makes a difference.And she's a social researcher and she looks at all the different emotional responses to climate change and how that can affect change.
For example, fear is is a really powerful emotion but it's not a very lasting emotion.So people have the the floodwaters or from an extreme weather event runs through the house and and and and they create a short term strong emotion, but then all drifts away and a couple of years roll on and then they forget about it.
So there's not so, so lasting motivation for change.And similarly things like anger and that sort of thing are also not very long lasting.But what she talks about as being more useful long term emotions are things like hope and love.
And when I say love, she means things like, say, love of the favorite holiday destination, love of your if your grandchildren love of your pet.And so that then feeds back into the the the strategy of the VFCI, which is people love their animals, climate's important for the animal's health.
They love wildlife.OK, let's join the dots for those people and say how can we leverage that emotion to get some long term change?So she she really writes, she's a journalist, so she writes in a really accessible fashion.It's not a heavy textbook, it's just a really interesting raid.
And she then sort of gives you an understanding of how to deal with those people that that are climate deniers or whatever, and how let that get under your skin.Because if you're not a clever denier, that causes a strong emotional response in itself, in in you.As a like I, anger is definitely up there when.
You deal with somebody who's.A flat out denier.I should definitely.Read that.I have a friend who it is a good friend and an old friend who is more on the denier side, and I get unreasonably angry when we talk about it, and then I don't know what to say, so I should definitely read that.
I feel like that book will be useful way beyond just talking about climate change, because there's many things, even in our profession, even with clinical stuff.Those would be useful skills as to say, how do you, how do you pose something when you have a client or somebody like that who has an inherently very different view to you?
Have you found that useful in in other scenarios?Yeah, look, it's I guess it's feels like the the anger for example that you know, that's something that we have to deal with in day-to-day in practice with clients that are getting angry for all sorts of reasons.But it's not a very rational response of trying to sort of rationalize with someone in that situation.
It's not usually very effective.And similarly with the with your climate deniers, you know, they've got a whole lot of reasons which are perfectly valid for them as to why they're not engaging with the process and they're using logic to try and change their mind.They're not going to work, so it's probably not worth bothering with them.
Find a topic that you enjoy talking about and connect with them in some other way and they're not necessarily bad people, and then try and focus on that 60 or 70% of people in the middle who want to do something.We've done a way to start that's kind of like where I have some energy and stuff.Yeah, I heard Simon Sinek say once.
I have to meet logic with logic and emotion with emotion, which I I think is really good with saying it like that.So your question, Jeremy, for my next guest.Yes, look, I'm gonna be a little bit specific here and and again off the back of the paper that I've recently been involved in.
So my question is that, you know, what can you do in your sphere of influence, particularly in your workplace, to encourage and support management to develop and enhance their sustainability and emissions reduction ambitions.That's a big one.But so I guess what I want, what I want people to do is look at their workplace and say what are we doing?
Is something happening?OK, management?Are they, do they know about it?Are they doing something OK?How can I influence them?And then if they are doing something can can they do it better?It's a it's a great question because of course I when I ask, when these questions get posed in the podcast, I immediately ask it of myself and I can immediately think of a bunch of things climate specifically climate and sustainability wise that bother me when I'm at work.
I'd never act on it.No, I don't never act on it.But I haven't made a considered effort to go speak to management and say, hey there's this thing, I think we can do this better.So thanks.That's a great question and hopefully, hopefully hopefully the ultimate answer to the question is get management to sign up to the Climate Keep right, but small steps.
I'd also like listeners of the podcast to then apply that in their circumstance.If that was the thing about the papers that you know, if we can get management buy in, that's the most important stakeholder in the whole veteran sector to actually affect change.If they're keen, they're to vote the resources, the time set, the targets, the the ambitions, the culture, everything.
If we can get management buy in.So I think that's what I would like people to have a go at.Great.Last question, Jeremy is you have an opportunity to address all of the new graduates, the veterinary new grads of should we do last year's cohort, the 2023 cohort, You've got a couple of minutes to give them just one little message.
What would you say to them?Well, first of all, I'd say that vet science is a fabulous career and a fabulous degree to have.It's got so many options that you can work city, you can work rural, you can work part time, full time, you can be special in practice, you can work international, you can work in governments, large corporations.
That saying so, so it's an extremely versatile degree.And so if you're not finding your initial steps, don't find what you want, you know, there's lots of other options out there.So first of all that and then the other thing I think is that obviously climate change is here to stay it.It will get worse as science is clear and there's a lot of climate anxiety out there amongst particularly the younger generation.
And if I understand that, but I think, you know, there are other existential threats out there and there have been and humanity's been dealing with the threat of nuclear war, the pandemics, impending threat of AI and what that might do.So there are always issues out there and I think probably climate change to some extent needs to be compartmentalized because if you think too hard about it like that, it could be destructive to your mindset.
But what I think is, is the way to approach it is to look at what you can do or sort of backtrack a bit.You need to worry about the things that you can change and things that you can't change.You don't want to worry too much about them because you can't do anything about it.Worry about things you can change, the things you can change.
It's your own sphere of influence.So collaborating with others to to do more on dealing with climate change, I think is really and that's a lifelong continuing education in our in, in vet practice.It's a lifelong commitment to setting yourself into small goals and building on that year on year and collaborating and influencing those around you to support your actions.
And so at least then you can feel that I'm doing, you know, I've done the best I can and the rest is beyond my control.Yeah.So the other thing I mentioned is there was a, I know, a quote from a journalist I can't remember now, but we still live life day-to-day, week to week, month to month.
And so life will go on and we'll still do most of the things we like, but more and more there's going to be farming impacts creeping in somehow reassuring to know that, you know, I'm continually working on my plan and I guess if you look at the climate science the next seven years, it's really crucial to to shifting the dialogue.
What we can do in the next seven years will be the most useful emissions reduction in history, really.That's really where the challenge is.It's a good message because it.Can and I've?Experienced that personally, as you say, once you start thinking about it, it can almost be paralyzing if you think about it long term.
Yes, that that message of I have a saying that I use for myself.I can't even remember where I got it from.But do what?Do what you can with what you have, where you are.That's and then all he can do and and the I think it's a relevant message for the the younger generation of vets, the new grads because they are we're going to be the ones that that are going to deal with this and hopefully can move the needle on it by by insisting on change.
And they seem to be quite happy to not be happy with the status quo of how we've treated the planet.So for them to to say look, no, we they're going into the practices not as the practice leaders, but they can say look now I we insist that we want to work in a sustainable practice and here's a couple of ways that we can help you do that.
Hope that's the the message that we get from this.Yeah, I think you, I mean, you've got to have, you've got to have hope and be positive.And so you've got to look at how you can shape that into your approach to life.And there's lots and lots of opportunities in the climate space opening up as you know new technologies.
It's not all about giving something up.It's about grabbing your opportunities and and and and and doing things that fit with a larger narrative, which is emissions reduction.Really.OK, so, so you can become a specialist in low carbon anesthesia, for example, and go around and teach practices how to do this and save money and and and help their emissions reductions.
Right.So there, you know, there's an opportunity that you wouldn't have thought of five years ago.That's very cool, Jeremy.Thank you so, so much for your time and sharing what you've learned and sharing a pathway forward.And thank you for doing the work, for putting your hand up and making it happen.And I hope the next chapter of your public career is I'm not a hope.
I'm excited that we'll be super.Backward.So thank you very much.Thanks for your pleasure.Before you disappear.I wanted to tell you about our new weekly newsletter.
I speak to so many interesting people and learn so many new things while making the podcast.So I thought I'd create a little summary each week of the stuff that stood out for me.We call it the Vet Vault 321 and it consists of firstly 3 clinical Pearls.These are three things that I've taken away from.
The clinical podcast episodes, my light bulb moments, the penny dropping, any new facts and the stuff that we need to know to make all the other pieces fit.Then two other things.This could be quotes, links, movies, books, a podcast, highlight, anything that I've come across outside of clinical vetting that I think you might find interesting.
And then one thing to think about.I'll share something that I'm pondering, usually based on something that I've read or heard, but sometimes it'll be just my own musings or rants.The goal of this format is that you can spend just two to three minutes on the clinical stuff and move right along if that's all that you're after.But if you're looking for content that is more nourishing than cat videos or doom scrolling, then our two other things should send you in the right direction.
And then something extra for when you feel like a slightly longer read.If you'd like to get these in your inbox each week, then subscribe by following the newsletter link in the show description wherever you're listening to this.It's free, I think it's useful, it's fun, and it's easy to unsubscribe.If it's not for you, OK, We'll see you next time.

Dr Jeremy Watson