Jan. 22, 2024

#111: Navigating the Pendulum: Adapting to Evolving Veterinary Landscapes. With Dr Sam Bowden.

#111: Navigating the Pendulum: Adapting to Evolving Veterinary Landscapes. With Dr Sam Bowden.

This episode explores the evolving landscape of the veterinary profession, highlighting the challenges and opportunities for veterinarians, business owners, and recent graduates. Key topics include adapting to cyclical changes in the profession, managing client expectations, and preparing students and early-career vets for real-world challenges. The conversation emphasises practical advice, such as embracing the inevitability of mistakes, fostering resilience, and balancing technical skills with business acumen. Insights into modern veterinary business strategies are shared, including leveraging technology, creating efficient systems, and adapting to shifts in client behaviour and economic conditions. The discussion provides actionable strategies for thriving in veterinary medicine, whether as a clinician, leader, or entrepreneur.

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Season 1

The last time we had Sam Bowden on the podcast, all everyone in the veterinary profession could think about was: 'too much work, not enough workers!' But 2023 saw some changes. The deluge of work turned into a more reasonable stream, veterinary companies are looking twice at their bloated wage bills, and clinics are finally filling those vacancies. It’s a different landscape to be sure, and Sam Bowden is just the man to help us unpack and strategise, whether you’re freshly graduated and about to enter the job market, or a clinic owner who has to start working on attracting and keeping good clients.

Grab your limited seat at Sam’s members only AMG Marketing Mastery Event.

Book a call with Sam about joining the Accelerate Mastermind Group.

Dr Sam Bowden, with 15 years of veterinary practice experience and a track record of owning and expanding two practices, has spent the last 12 years assisting practice owners in achieving better work-life balance, profitability, and overall well-being. He's the founder of ⁠United Vets Group⁠, The Ultimate Veterinary Practice, Complete Vet Systems, More Vet Clients Websites, Accelerate Practice Academy, Accelerate Mastermind Group, Vet Business Manager Program, The Dental Academy and also the author of The Abundant Practice.  Sam’s teaching focusses heavily on mindset combined with practical strategies to allow practice owners and teams to reach their full potential.

In this episode, we explore the changes in the veterinary profession in 2024 compared to a year ago, including what Sam calls the 'profitless boom.' Sam shares data with us on what our clients value, and some practical ways that we can deliver it in way that is financially and emotionally sustainable. We dig into how the veterinary job market is different now compared to a year ago, and how it might change over the next year or two as we discuss the question: have we become entitled?!

Topic list:

06:30 Changes in the vet profession.

07:54 Sam's advice for vet students.

23:50 Do we still have too many clients and not enough vets?

27:11 Clinic retail sales have gone down - what's the impact?

31:38 Do cheap retailers erode trust of veterinary clinics?

36:13 Are wages going to stay up?

37:43 The shift towards service orientation in veterinary practice.

39:09 Better service and changing the model of service increases price elasticity.

41:18 The role of pet insurance and wellness plans.

44:09 Why you should have a business mindset and a positive mindset in vet practice.

55:16 Sam's thoughts on social media as tool for business and as a vet.

 

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Preparing Veterinary Students for Real-World Challenges

The episode describes a variety of real-world challenges veterinary students face when transitioning from university to a practical setting. To prepare students for these challenges, it is crucial to provide them with practical advice and support that addresses the realities of veterinary practice.
The episode highlights the following key points for preparing students:
  • Managing Expectations: Students often enter the profession with high expectations of themselves, leading to anxiety and disappointment.
    • It is important to emphasise that mistakes are inevitable, particularly in the early years of their careers, and should be viewed as learning opportunities rather than failures.
    • Shifting the focus from perfection to progression helps create a healthier mindset and fosters resilience.
  • Building Confidence: Encourage students to step outside their comfort zones and take on challenges, even if they feel unprepared.
    • Practical experience in a supportive environment where they can make mistakes and learn from them is crucial for developing competence and confidence.
    • Mentorship and coaching play a vital role in guiding students through these early experiences and helping them navigate challenges.
  • Financial Realities: Openly discuss the financial aspects of veterinary practice, including salary expectations and the challenges of maintaining profitability in a changing economic environment.
    • Understanding the business side of veterinary practice is becoming increasingly important for young vets.
    • Encourage students to think like business owners, considering how they can contribute to the practice's success and negotiate their value accordingly.
Preparing students for the emotional and psychological challenges of the profession is equally important. Open discussions about the high levels of stress and anxiety experienced by veterinarians are essential.
By addressing these challenges head-on, veterinary schools and mentors can better equip students for the realities of veterinary practice and foster a more resilient and fulfilled workforce.

Leadership and Growth in Veterinary Practices

The episode offers insights into leadership and growth strategies for veterinary practices, particularly in the context of a changing economic climate and workforce dynamics.
Shifting from a Vet-Centric to a Team-Based Model
Traditionally, veterinary practices have revolved around the individual vet, leading to potential bottlenecks and limitations on growth. The episode proposes a shift towards a more team-based approach, where the vet functions as a "director of traffic" within a supportive team structure. This model leverages the skills of other team members, such as vet liaisons or co-consults, to handle tasks like client communication, financial discussions, and administrative duties. This frees up the vet to focus on their core clinical expertise, increasing efficiency and overall productivity.
Embracing Technology and Innovation
The episode highlights the importance of embracing technological advancements to streamline processes and enhance efficiency. For example, using AI-powered tools for generating clinical notes can significantly reduce administrative burden on vets, allowing them to see more patients. Exploring innovative service models, such as partnering with companies like Your Pet PA, can generate passive income streams from retail sales while meeting client demands for convenience and competitive pricing.
Investing in Staff Development and Wellbeing
Recognising the rising costs of wages and the need to retain skilled staff, the sources emphasise the importance of investing in staff development and wellbeing. This includes providing opportunities for professional growth, fostering a supportive work environment, and promoting a healthy work-life balance. By empowering staff and creating a positive workplace culture, practices can attract and retain top talent, contributing to long-term success.
Proactive Financial Strategies
The episode acknowledges the financial pressures faced by veterinary practices, particularly with increasing wage bills and potential economic downturns. They advocate for proactive financial strategies beyond simply raising prices.
These strategies include:
  • Implementing pet insurance and wellness plans to provide clients with financial options and create a more predictable revenue stream.
  • Focusing on client service excellence to enhance price elasticity and client loyalty.
  • Running a "leaner" and more efficient practice by streamlining processes and optimising resource allocation.
Cultivating a Growth Mindset
The sources emphasise the importance of cultivating a growth mindset within the practice, both at the individual and organisational levels. This involves:
  • Embracing change and adapting to evolving market dynamics.
  • Seeking opportunities in challenging times.
  • Continuously learning and improving processes and services.
By fostering a culture of innovation and continuous improvement, veterinary practices can navigate challenges and achieve sustainable growth, even in uncertain economic climates.

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I wanna start this episode with a bit of a phone conversation that I had with my vet friend Don the other day.Yeah, I don't know if I told.You.But I'm I'm gonna start doing TPL.OS That's great.When did you specialize?No, I'm not.A specialist though, I'm just a very enthusiastic GP, but I really feel that it would benefit my patients.
Sure, I get that.So which course did you do?I know there are a couple of good ones with excellent wet labs.Dude, those are so.Expensive.There's no ways I can afford that, but I'm naturally just quite a good surgeon, you know?Boom.Wow.Pretty brave doing tplos just from an online course.
You must have an amazing textbook.Or is there someone in the practice who's been mentoring you?Nah, but I've seen heaps of post op X-rays of tplos and I've watched the YouTube video and I I really think.That with my intelligence and my natural talent, and maybe a bit.Of trial and error that we can make it work.
I think we'll get there.Dark Eye.Anyway, I need to go.Good to chat.
Is this the vet board?Yes.I'd like to lodge a concern.That's a ridiculous conversation, right?For a start, I don't actually know anyone who's as eloquent as my friend Don.So if that conversation is so ridiculous, then why is it that this is kind of how many of us run our vet businesses?
Now let me be very clear, I've met amazing practice owners and team leaders who run excellent businesses, and some of them are naturally good leaders and good business people.But for the vast majority of people who run the best vet practices, they sucked at it when they started.
But the one thing that they have in common is that they get outside help.A business coach or a course.Or maybe they're just ferocious readers, but they do not just wing it.There are people's careers and Wellness at stake, and that's not something to take lightly.In fact, here's my advice for young beds and job seekers.
If you're considering working at a practice, ask the boss What's the most recent leadership course that you guys did?Do you have a business coach which books most influenced your leadership style?You'll learn a lot about your future employer based on the answers they give and for the business owners, and I can say this because I was a business owner without a coach.
Why would you want to do it alone when there are so many good resources out there?This point was brought home to me again after this conversation with veterinary business coach, author, and let's call him fellow seeker and teacher of ways to be happier in this career of ours, Doctor Sam Bowden.
Sam shares such practical advice that I have to kind of face by myself for not having someone like this in my life when I ran my own practice.In this episode, we talk about what's different in the vet profession in 2023 compared to when we last had Sam on the podcast just over a year ago, including what Sam calls the profitless boom.
Sam shares some data with us on what our clients, your clients value and some practical ways that we could deliver that in a way that's affordable but also sustainable both financially and emotionally for the entire team.We dig into how the veteran job market is different now compared to a year ago and how it might change again over the next year or two.
As we discussed, the big question have we become entitled, which I think is an important conversation to hear for our business owners but also for our young vets and future vets.In fact, I lined up this interview with practice owners in mind.But Sam and I kicked off the first half of this conversation with some really granular and practical insights for new and recent graduates and for those who will employ them.
So pass it along to anyone who you think needs to hear this, whether it's your classmate or maybe it's your boss.If you didn't meet Sam when we last had him on, that's in episode 75 back in August 2022.I'll do a quick intro.Doctor Sam Bowden spent 15 years as a practicing vet, owning and growing 2 practices.
During that time, he's devoted the last 12 years of his career helping practice owners increase their happiness, work life, balance, and profitability.He is the founder of United Vet Group, the ultimate veterinary practice, complete vet systems, more vet clients websites, the Accelerate Mastermind Group Vet Business Manager Program, The Dental Academy, and also the author of The Abundant Practice.
Sam's teaching focuses heavily on mindset combined with practical strategies to allow practice owners and teams reach their full.Potential, including around the things that we mentioned earlier like happiness, work life balance and profitability and it's exactly the kind of.
Support that I talked about earlier, The kind of support that so many of us think that we don't need Now.I'm using Sam's Accelerate Mastermind group as an example of good support here because, well, you're about to listen to Sam and I know him and I've heard some great feedback from his clients since having him on the podcast a year ago.
Plus he gives me some money if you do sign up with him and you tell him that you heard about his work from me, which is nice.And also that's the ad section done for this episode.We do have an affiliate arrangement with Sam, so if you want to have a conversation with him to find out how he can help you with.
All the stuff we talk about in this episode, then please use the link in the show description to book a chat with him so that he knows that I sent you.In fact, there's a great opportunity coming up soon, very soon in fact, for you to kind of try before you buy to see if the Accelerate mastermind would be a good fit for you and your team.
On the first weekend of February, they are hosting their annual Gala AMG Members event, which is historically strictly for members of the current mastermind.But this year Sam is opening up five seats to non members.The event is all about marketing and finding, serving and keeping great clients.
The kind of clients that make work a pleasure.If you want your bump on one of those five seats, we have a link to that in the show description right here where you're listening to this show.But really, I don't mind if it's Sam or Seth Godin or Tony Robbins or Simon Sinek or Brené Brown or any of the other great veteran specific management courses out there.
Just get some support.OK, I am done talking.Let's get into it with Doctor Sam Bowden.Welcome back to the Red Vault for round two.
Awesome.Great to be here.Thanks mate.You know, you've been going a while for a podcast when you're having the boomerang guests, the comebacks, but we had such a great response to your last episode and to the stuff that you shared.But I feel like things have changed when we spoke and we'll come back to that.But it was a different environment.
The whole veterinary environment, specifically in Australia was different to what it is now, which is why I wanted to get your updated views in this conversation for today.Yeah, it's interesting.I think the concept, I call it pendulum theory.I remember hearing someone say if you want to know what the future looks like, it's the opposite what it is now.
So you know everything's cyclical and so when things are going great, well you know the future get ready for it not to be so great and when things aren't so great, get ready to be really great.And so really developing that way of thinking that it's normal.
There's nothing wrong, you just need to go how are you going to manage it.So yeah, I think it's a very different environment from really since what start of the year.So really I think you know it started sort of changing around that sort of February, March ish time.It's when we really started noticing obvious changes and it's flying out now.
I like that this that you say, the pendulum.Theory.Because I have the same theory I often think about the I must have heard it somewhere.But in everything culturally, business wise, everything it does, maybe I've just been alive long enough to start noticing it that it goes this way.
And then you go, OK, well, everybody thinks, oh shit, this is happening, this is happening.And at the same time, I'm thinking, yeah, for now, that's what's happening now, but just wait.It'll change.It'll change.Before we dig into all of that and the business stuff and the veterinary landscape, I want your advice.
I want your advice on advice that I'm supposed to give.So I am doing a couple of talks to vet students over the next couple of months.And with one of them, the task for the talk that I'm supposed to give is give an inspirational talk to finally a vet students.And I'm a bit stuck because I want to know what is inspirational?
What do they need to hear?So my first question to you is, Sam, when you were finally a vet student, if you had to have a, maybe you had something like this.But if you had to have a talk by some middle-aged veterinarian, what would you have needed to hear or what would you have found inspiring at that time that would have made you pumped to jump into your career?
Yeah, it's a great question.And it's been a little while since I was at uni, so I'm sort of digging back into the Gray matter a little bit.I can remember always when we get like, basically just practitioners who come in and talk about what it's like in the real world, not in the academic world of theoretical world of university, what it's like in the real world.
I remember being fascinated by them, like, you know, what sort of money you're going to make and what can you expect lots of hours and what are the clients going to be like and things like that.So I think you geared up and you're sort of excited about, like, I'm learning this stuff.I can't wait to actually go and get my hands dirty and, you know, roll up my sleeves.
And back then, I know there wasn't that much that actually really prepared me for what's actually going to happen in the real world.Like, here's what it's going to be like for the first six months, you're not going to have a clue what you're doing.And that's OK How do you manage that?How do you talk to clients about that?
How do you have the book under the desk?Well, books back then, now it's probably just topped up online and know that that's OK.So I think that anything that'll give them support around what's it going to be like in the real world where, hey, a client might say yes to a recommendation of ACT SCAN, it might be the best thing to do, but they're not going to say yes sometimes or quite commonly if they don't have insurance, they just might be able to afford it.
I remember I spoke to the university students at Townsville and so they said can you come up and spend an hour?And I said no.I said it's a day or nothing because there's no point me talking for an hour.I can't get anywhere and I spent a day with these guys and now I years three to five and essentially what we covered was really a mindset that'll support you when you're in practice.
And I had people ring me up years later and went that was the most useful day because it actually prepared me for what I experienced.What amazed me about this, Hubert, this is the thing that blew me away afterwards.They'd put a keg on, right?So you're at uni, you have a keg, you know, And I'm like, OK, I am back at uni having a keg.
How cool.So I go down there.Free beer.Yeah, yeah, Woot, woot, woot.Put it up.And only a few people turned up.And I went, where is everyone?They went, oh, they've gone home to study.Now this is a Saturday night and midterm, not exams.And they've gone home to study.
And I said, well, why?Well, they're really worried about their, like the little anxiety that they had around, Are they going to know their stuff?And I sort of dug in deep and I said, what, what are you really worried about?And they said we're so anxious that we're going to stuff something up like an animal, get a case wrong.
And then I hear statistics later, and I can't confirm these, It's sort of hearsay, but a huge percentage of students, like at Melbourne University, that students coming out on antidepressants before they even picked up a scalpel.And when I dug into like, what are you worried about?
The same thing, I'm worried that I'm going to stuff something up.So what I did with them, they found really useful was give them reality that, hey, it's not if you stuff something up, it is guaranteed that you're going to stuff up way more, way more frequently, 10 times worse than you can possibly imagine.
And that's OK.And I think what they needed the bit is in the real world, things just as, you know, they don't work out someday, You know, stuff just happens.So we really, we spent a bit of time giving them what we call the feedback loop, which is how humans kind of evolve that if something goes wrong, number one, it's not.
And we've talked about this last time, it's not, it's not a failure if something goes wrong, it's just feedback.It's how you learn.It's like I did this and that didn't work.So when you see that I didn't fail because something went W, it was just some learning.And the second piece of it is I'm after progression, not perfection.
And what I observe with these students, they're all coming out going to be a perfect vet and get it all right and that's just not going to happen.And just giving them permission to know it's OK that that's normal and you are going to do it.So stop worrying about if you're going to do it, you are.Let's give you some ways of actually dealing with it when it does happen that you don't beat yourself up and you're so nervous about the vet surgeon's board and start getting so anxious that next thing they're just not enjoying their profession.
So feedback, not failure.Progression not perfection.And then the feedback loop, which is, if you sort of imagine, you know, a a cycle number one, you come up with a plan.And this is how humans learn doing anything.I've got a plan.So I'm going to do this surgery.So you do your plan, you map it out, read up with whatever you need to do to do it, talk to someone else.
Great, #2, we execute and we roll it out.How did it go?So number step #3 in the cycle is we need to analyze.Did it work?Did it not work?How can we improve it with the mindset of our after progression, not perfection.And then the last thing is learn from it.
So something can work, just learn.And we go back and and and tweak our plan or tweak how we're going to do the surgery.So when they understand this feedback loop and you know that upon execution, we're telling you you're going to stuff things up, that's OK.The last piece is do your best, but also play above the line of responsibility.
So assume accountability.Something goes wrong.Don't blame your nurse, don't blame other people around you.Just go, OK, I created it.It's not a bad thing.How do I tweak and evolve this?Because the best people have made the most amount of mistakes.That's why they're so good.
They've been in the game long enough to know what didn't, didn't work, and every vet, we sat down once and called vets.When vets go bad and everyone had to share their worst vet story, it was unbelievably funny, like just the things that went wrong, you just couldn't dream of it.
So I think giving them that permission, it kind of allows them to go, it's OK.The vet surgeons board, it's not if you go to the vet surgeons board, it's when you go to the vet surgeons board, it has nothing to do whether you're a bad vet 9 1/2 times out of 10.Sure there's a few kind of crazies out there that vet surgeons board keeps a certain standard, but most of it's because you've got a client who's aggrieved because of a communication or expectation may had and the next thing the person feels like they're being investigated and they're going to lose their license and all the rest which is just couldn't be further from the truth.
So if you just can't, every single good vet I know has had a vet surgeon's board complaint against them.And it has nothing to do with whether you're a good or bad vet.It's the public's kind of lever to be able to, you know, stop, that's performing bad medicine.So don't know, mate.They're the sort of things, not so much inspirational, but actually giving them something practical and they go, oh, I feel a bit safer.
It's interesting because the you're talking exactly along to the lines that I've been thinking.I think it's about expectations, one of our previous guests said a while ago he said happiness equals expectations minus reality.
And I think it's about just adjusting the balance between what are your expectations.As you say, very interesting.You mentioned they be making a mistake or I'm so worried I'm going to make a mistake.Literally the last episode we released was with with somebody who lecture students in in America medicine specialist and she was part of a research study into clinical errors and finally a vet students but I think it translates into the first five years of your career and what do you think the percentage was of an anonymous survey of who has made a mistake a clinical error in their final year as a vet student.
What do you think the percentage is Oh jeez.I'd have to put it 100% hundred percent 100 percent 100% of them had made the The sad thing is there was it's not 100% who admitted to it when they made the mistake they they anonymously said yes absolutely on a survey but in practice they're like fuck, I'm not going to tell anybody about it.
So hey absolutely you are going to make a mistake and the expectation I want to talk about is that expectation of that I'm going to be quote UN quote a good vet.What does a good vet look like?A good vet is not a perfect vet because there's no such thing Like what I'm learning chatting to vets on on here is the best vets exactly as you say, are the ones who have an attitude of yet try stuff, do stuff, make mistakes, learn from it.
There's no such thing as a perfect vet and if your expectation is that you're gonna.Walk out of.Vet school and be a really good vet.You gotta suck, realistically, you gotta the stuff you're gonna try, you're gonna suck at it, and everybody else expects it except for you.So yeah, I think I'm on the right track, all right?
And I think it's important for them to be in an environment where I believe in a lot of times there's too much hand holding.Like it's like we don't ever want anyone to get stressed.You know, when they're working in practice and like that's BS of course you're going to get stressed.If you want to be commercially minded, you need to learn how to Tic Tac along.
And the only way you learn it is by feeling that kind of stress and going, OK, I'm going to do it anyway.Then you get used to it and it becomes simpler and easier.So you know, you see people in their two years out and they're taking an hour and a half to do a dog spa.It's like you actually want to be in an environment where you go, OK, you know what you're doing now go and you left your own devices with support if needed, but you don't have someone scrubbed in with you the whole time, you know?
So I think I like people to not sink or swim, but I'm OK for them to kind of get down to just under the waters just below nozzle level.So they can still breathe, but they're having to paddle pretty hard to stay above water.And what I find is it creates more confidence.
And I think that's the one thing that we see lacking is people's confidence in having a swing at things.If you look at now, I was, you know, a regional practice, so I got to do lots of orthopaedic surgery within my first year.Whereas in here, in a city practice here, that would just never happen.
It's kind of sad because they missed that.Developing yourself where you go, I feel pretty good.I can, you know, I can fix a broken leg.Yeah, it's such a fine balance.I think about this a lot because I agree if you'd never, if you're never under stress, it's called a tension.Stress has got negative constant.
If there's never a tension between I'm here and this is where I want to be, and between point A&B, there is a tension and I will feel it.How do you reach that tension without taking it too far?Because certainly from my own experience, there were times when it was too much in over my head and probably negatively affected my feelings towards my career and my confidence.
Because again, you take it too far and that confidence takes a knock.You're like, oh, I'm terrible.I couldn't handle that.I'm just going to step back and not take on these things because that was such a stressful experience.It's tricky and I don't think there's a there's a perfect path.I think it is the sometimes you're probably going to overstep into the one zone and then correct and bring it back to the other side.
But finding that jump, it's called EU stress.So EU stress is a lack of stress and it's been shown that that's actually really bad.It gives people a lack of feeling like they're living.If there's just no stress, there's no meaning and then you've got hyper stress at the other end.So as you say, I think as practice owners, when you're, you know, helping new grads, it's like, OK, push them out and keep pushing that boat out, but just far enough that you can grab the boat if it's not looking too good.
But I think it's OK for them to probably have a go at things before they think they're ready because you never think you're ready, right, Because you don't have the confidence.You learn competence.You get confidence when you get competent and you the only way you do that is by pushing that boat out a little bit continuously.The other thing you know occasionally you'll see with new grads is they're very gun ho and they can come outgoing, look out, and they can't be told anything because they're a new grad and they're a vet and I've heard some pretty rock'n'roll stories of cases of those where they need like, one thing I'd say is be coachable.
Be coachable as a new grad, like open up, anyone can help you.Just be ask questions, Be inquisitive, but be coachable to get feedback because you'll.You will leave a a littered driveway if you're not coachable.I'm, I'm picturing a a metaphor of a trapeze artist.
You got to leap sometime, right?If you stay on the one thing and just swing up and down, eventually it's going to stop swinging and you're just going to hang there.It's going to happen, but it's scary to let go and grab the next one.So I think the secret is knowing that I can let go.
I've got to have a go at it.It's freaking scary.It feels like I'm going to die, but there's got to be the net underneath me to go.If I miss them, if I miss my grab, I'm not going to die.Maybe that's the thing that you could share with him, is that to feel like I'm outside of my I'm nervous.Let them know that that's normal, That's OK You're going to feel it.
If they think I want to get in and feel completely confident, which is I think what they're looking, they're trying to feel confident before they get there.You're not going to get confident until you become competent.The only way you get competent is by stretching your own boundaries continuously.And in order to do that, we say be comfortable with being uncomfortable because that's how your ability grows.
OK, that helps.Thank you, Sam.All right, let's get back to the veterinary profession in 2023, where we are.So when we spoke last time, it was all about we're all out of the pump.There's too much business, not enough vets, not enough support staff.
We're drowning.And it was almost like money's not actually an object.The money's coming in in droves and we just can't find the resources to spend it on to make things achievable.So we talked about strategies for dealing with that, and I feel like that's shifted from conversation I have on here and where I work and just just chatting to people.
It's not.I wouldn't say the pendulum is swung completely, but it's it's.I don't feel like we're on that extreme anymore.What's your thought with your clients and you and you're involved in the vet profession?Where are we?What's happening?Before I let Sam answer that, just two quick bits of housekeeping.
First thing, a listener suggested an episode idea that I think might be fun AQ and a episode where you interview me.So if you've listened to me interrogating my guests and you've ever thought, well, I have a few questions for you, you smart ass.Or maybe you're curious about the process of making the podcast, or you just want to disagree with me.
Then send me your questions and I'll answer them right here on the podcast, which will be the edited version.But we will record it as a live event as well, so you can ask me your questions on the spot and hear the unfiltered answers before I've had time.To think of.Smart answers that make me sound more intelligent.We'll let you know when that's happening, but in the meantime, please send me your questions at infothevetvault.com or on Instagram or on the Vetvault network if you remember that.
In fact, leave us a video message on the network that'll be much more fun.Which leads me to the second bit of admin, our specialist support space on the Vet Vault network.If you haven't checked it out yet, it's a space on an app or the web version where you can ask clinical questions about tricky cases of our team of smart specialists.
We have a bunch of people using it regularly already to help them deliver better patient care and save themselves hours of reading or Googling or asking questions on their chat groups.Where really it's kind of the.Blind leading the blind We recently added dermatology nerd doctor Alex Moore to the list of people who you can ping for same day answers, usually within less than an hour during Australian work hours.
She joins our medicine and emergency and critical care specialists.We've put a link to this space in the show description.Go and give it a try, OK?Back to Sam and his thoughts on whether the pendulum is swinging away from too many clients, not enough vets.Yeah, well, I agree, man.
I don't think the pendulum's gone the other way, but it's definitely moving in that direction.One of the things that we've there's been a dashboard developed that is unbelievable for running a vet practice.It just makes running a vet practice so easy because it takes the data from any software system and puts it into categories and figures.
That's very intuitive to understand what's going on in the business and then what should I do as a result of it.But obviously when we're coaching businesses, every business we do, we actually pay for them to get the dashboards.It's not ours, someone else's dashboard, a company called your pet PA does it.And so what's cool is I get to see it's not opinion, I get to see direct data and across.
You know, at the moment I think we're up to about, we've only really started putting them on in the last few months, but it's about 60 odd dashboards that we'll take a look at and I can see everything going on in every practice including all the financials.Here's some interesting things.
When you said, oh, there's plenty of money coming in, what's actually happened is they call it sometimes they call it the profitless boom.And what's happened is wages have gone up as a percentage generally across the board.And normally look at wages should sit at about 38% without paying payroll tax, but 38% as you wage plus super.
It's kind of the sweet spot where we go, Yep, if you do that you're probably going to be running up your 20 to 30% net profit practice.They're kind of a basic parameter and that's including paying your business owner.So it's anyone that's generating revenue, you know, running the business 38% should be your cost of your wages, of your total turnover.
So what's happening?We're seeing a lot of businesses running at high 40s, low 50s, and if you're a 4855, you just, you can't cut profit, it's just too high and it's kind of like everyone's going well.What's happening?Why are we making all this more money coming in but we're not more profitable?
Why?Because your expenses have gone up significantly and wages being the big one, which is obviously supply and demand.Now on top of that, what we're seeing is since about March, April, invoice numbers starting to drop back a little bit.
So we get to see how many invoices done per practice and how many invoices generated per vet.These are declining, not significantly.And let's be honest, when they go, oh we're heading for a recession.Well, that's a great, great profession to be in because it's pretty much it's considered recession proof, which is why your Woolworths and things like that want to get in there because people's discretionary spend, they'll stop going on the holiday but they'll still take care of their pets.
So it's a pretty safe industry.So I I hear people going it's doom and gloom in the vet space and I just think, I think that's hyper charging the situation.I don't think that's the case.I think what we're seeing is as invoice numbers come down, the number of people going, I want another vet decreases.
I was recently at, I was talking at the IVA business group doing round tables and chatting to people there and we're saying hey for vets and most of them are going, no, we're good for vets, we're good for vets.What was interesting is we haven't got nurses, good nurses.So we're just seeing the pendulum come back in.
I can't find a vet that's kind of tending to come back.Now you're hearing stories of people going, Oh my gosh, I had a vet just ring me up and see if I can get a job, which, you know, a year and a half ago was a Unicorn story.So we're sort of seeing this swing change, interesting statistic where retail is decreasing in practices.
So because I can get all this data and have a look very specifically on average food as a percentage of revenue as so you know how much food practice is selling, it's decreased from 2017 to now, it is decreased by 36%.
Preventatives as a percentage revenue has decreased by 31% and pharma, you know so drugs is down by 8 1/2% which means those three combined has decreased by 19%.So nearly one fifth of your turnover that you used to sell in retail has gone.
Now if we look at the trending graphs, it's a downward trend.So we just go, well, you can arm wrestle this but and have an opinion, but it's pointless because this is what the data if you then correlate that with companies that actually measure e-commerce sites and they measure consumer behavior online and you're asking things like what percentage of things do you buy online now as opposed to four years ago, It's extraordinary.
It's like almost doubled and tripled.It's tripled the amount of people that actually say I actually buy everything online now.So there's this shift happening.So this will mean that in vet practices you can expect to see a decrease in retail.So those practices that are propping up their fees by selling product and you know hoping on bags of dog food and things like that and it's a declining game.
So these are sort of what we're we're actually seeing the actual data saying, OK, this is what's happening.I have a saying that it's not mine.It came from one of my original mentors and he said when everything starts going a bit pear shaped, there's the economy and that's what people are doing, consumer spending.
And then there's your economy and that's what goes on inside your head.So my economy is and I've developed this in, you know, the last 15 years since first hearing is.He said what you want to learn is go, is how do I thrive regardless of the economic climate.
What that means is these changes, it's cyclical.It will happen, the pendulum comes back.But you, I got to sit there and throw your hands in the air and go, oh, this is terrible or you go cool, where's the opportunity that no one else is seeing?And that's where you can do incredibly well in these periods because when things start getting a bit darkish and a bit gloomy, everyone tends to get frozen.
They become paralyzed with fear.And this is where the opportunities actually occur from.So there's very specific strategies that using.So I'll give you one for an example, the whole looking at the retail side of things, if you look at the actual number of clients that buy their retail products from you, food is around about 3 to 4%.
Preventatives is about 7%, which means 97% of your clients are getting their food elsewhere.So as a vet practice, you're getting nothing of that, no clip of the ticket, 0 even.But what's the thing that every person wants the vet recommendation.So there's a company called Your Pet PA and what they do is you can send emails to your clients.
Say hey guys, I know that we can't get these flea treatments and food we just can't compete with online and everyone knows that they'll buy one packet from you and then go to either a pet store and probably online.So if you actually and and people are feeling the pinch financially.So if you communicate with them and say, hey, I've found a way to drive your dollar further looking after your pet.
And what it does is click.Here is a link and it's a unique link to your practice.And if they buy anything from their food or flea products or whatever it is, shampoos or whatever, they go and buy it.It's fulfilled by your pet PA, which really they're a logistics company, an education company.But then you get a 10% clip of the ticket.
So what it means is, and then when they're next due for the next one, the company will automatically send an e-mail from you.It's not from them, it's from you.So all correspondences coming as though it's from you, hey, you're now due for your next free one.Click here and it's free to be sent.And it's like super, super competitive prices.
So it's overcome this problem of convenience for the client.They don't have to leave home, they're being reminded of it.Yes, it turns up because it has algorithms.If you have a certain sized dog and you buy a certain bag of food or flea treatments or whatever, it kind of auto calculates when it would be due.
And what this means is you can actually develop a passive income from the retail side of your business without stocking the products.I I like that because the I've seen this even outside of my working day life.But that whole competition on price for products exactly Rhodes Trust I find in our profession because so you have it on the shelf because when some people want to buy it from you and so they might buy the fleet product or whatever they they take preventative from you at the minimum that you can charge because really you have to have some sort of a mark up, right.
And and we have like we can't buy in the bulk that some of these online pharmacies buy and then they go online and they see, oh it's like. 30% cheaper.Online and then they go, Oh yeah, my vet screamed me fuck, he must be raking it in that bastard.He's charging so much for all these products and they don't understand the so actually I had where I live.
Sam we've got a an Airbnb and the other day my wife was a vet as well.She said oh by the way people checking in today so we we dog friendly.She said don't talk to them about vet stuff.Don't say you're a vet, she said.Because in their correspondence before them not knowing that she's a vet, they said they're bringing their dog and the the whole background story of why they're coming is they're having a special holiday with their dog, which is really cool.
We get a lot of those people do that right they we kids for their for their dog because he's been diagnosed with a heart condition.But then it surfaced in the conversation that they really pissed off with their vet because they realized the difference in price that he charges for the heart maids versus what they can get online.So they so they just angry with the profession.
So she said don't tell them you're a vet because they burst off at vets.I'm like wow, that's that's huge.So does the same thing that model you're talking about, does it hold true for prescriptions as well or is it just food and you know over the counter sort of stuff like well how do we, how do we deal with the pharmaceutical stuff without, well there's a pharmacy there as well, Sorry.
Instead of you having the product you can go great, you just e-mail, send the script through to the PA and they can, they can fulfill that.You know, I think for, you know, pharmaceutical stuff, your high turnover stuff, I would have it in store, you know your antibiotics and this and that.But for your routine things that are ongoing, lifelong medication, you know for a fact that they're going to jump online, all the data tells they're going to jump online.
And as you say, they then go, my vet is, you know, they're charging me heaps.So what we've found in this dashboard, we can look at every single product that's sold that you stock and we can have a look at your margins.So not your markup, you know if you've got 100% markup that means you've got a 50% profit margin.
What's amazing is this practices that are selling like your preventatives and things like that.If they've got a a 20% margin which means they're marking up 40%.If you actually add in the hard cost of someone's got to order it, stock it, write some off etcetera, you allocate a round of that.
We figured out it's a round about $6 per item you need to add in as your cost of of selling that product to someone else.When you add that in, a lot of the times people are actually losing money by stocking these, by selling these products.
And it's an interesting thing from a business perspective because you've got a choice, right, You can go, all right, well I I'll either put a mark up that is then competitive that actually I'll make some money or if I want to be competitively online, I actually can't do it.I'm not a high volume business model.
So it gives you opportunity then to say hey guys, we can't compete, but we've found a better way and hey, we trust this source.We know where it's coming from.It's not some dodgy website, but then you're actually getting a clip of the ticket because otherwise when that and they go online, they're gone.Imagine if you could get 50 to 60% of your clients buying their retail products online and you're getting a 10% clip of the ticket every time they do it.
I mean, the amount of revenue and profit you can generate without doing anything because you don't need to do the marketing.It's all done for you through another company.And I reckon when I look at a changing environment, everyone's going, oh, it's getting quiet.I'm like, Oh my gosh, clients are going to be short of money.You've got a dialogue here that, hey, you can actually help you save some money and still get the quality products.
So they're winning.The client's winning.The vet practice is winning because you actually now you know who's going to miss out with all of the other online pet stores and pet stores because it's all coming channelling through and they're getting a vet recommendation.So the vet practice wins.The client's definitely winning because it's easier and more convenient and cheaper and of course you know that's how pet PA will win.
So it's one of those nice little, you know, I think you find these little models, you go what's wrong with it, what's wrong with it?And it's a it's one of those nice little win wins that we're kind of encouraging our clients to, to look at and use because it's all the data says that's where it's going anyway.That's a that's a very nifty strategy.
Does it still leave us in the shortfall Because what we I wanted to unpack the stuff you talked about before that first of all the big increase in wages which again as a no longer practice owner and an employed vet I go great.Yeah.When we talked about students before one of the things that discouraged me greatly as a student was knowing about how the wages were.
So I think it's a really good thing that that's come up and hopefully I don't know.You tell me, is it going to stay up or is it going to correct again?Because I have heard about these companies emailing out all their locums saying, guess what, our locum rates are dropping.If you still want local for us, tough shit, it's coming down, which I don't know how that's going to go for them.
Good luck finding locums unless everybody does it.But our wage is going to stay high and everything else we'll have to readjust to reestablish that profit margin.Or at some point, is that supply to mine going to say, well, I have vets calling me looking for jobs, so I'm going to drop my rates.Yeah, good question.
And it's a crystal ball.No one has it.No one knows.But if you think about, like, think about taking first principles, what are humans really good at?Doing, Adapting, right.That's what we do incredibly well.That's why we're an alpha species on the planet and we evolve.So all that happens.
If you go right now, wages are high.Well, you know, there's going to be a period of, like, perturbation that's uncomfortable.So the, you know, practice of making no money and then what's going to happen?Well, Evolution will happen to allow it get to back to you know your viable business that's you know worthwhile having.
So the things that I'm seeing that is going to actually change and offset that number one is practices becoming more service orientated.So for example, we've done about 3 1/2 thousand phone based interviews with clients of vet practices a week after they've been into the practice and said what do you actually want from a business?
What is it that you most like about this business and the data from it's fascinating.Do you know the 51% of people if they gave a 10 out of 10 score, so they went to vet practice and said what do you think of I said it was a 10 out of 10 and we said what is the thing that you most appreciate about this business as in we're trying to understand what's the driver, what's the appreciation driver that got you to give that score and ticking your mind.
This is a good experience.Number one, they were friendly and easy to deal with. #2 they're obliging and accommodating. #3 they're caring and attentive. #4, communication we haven't even got to.Oh, by the way, they seem to actually know what they're doing as vets.
And so what's fascinating is moving forward to me, businesses have to become more orientated on actually understanding what your clients really want.And most people guess that's why we did all this research and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars doing it.So the advice we can give to clients is this is what people are actually looking for, what's your system delivery.
So that's number one is becoming more client because it what found is it increases what we call price elasticity so that businesses that have a better service, people will go, I'm happy to pay for it.You know, I heard a business the other day, dogs going in, a friend of mine $1000 for a routine descale and Polish with some X-rays grade one.
And I was like wow.And so I started poking and he goes, oh, you know, he thought it was pretty good value.Whereas other practices would be going like, gosh, $1000 just for an X-ray and Grade 1 descale and Polish like I looked at the dog's teeth, no teeth being pulled out or anything like that.So you may see a price adjustment which I think will have to happen.
You know, it's devaluing the dollar is going to happen.But the third thing that I think is going to happen is one of the things that we're hearing from a lot of practice owners is there's an entitlement sort of thing that I don't want to work too hard now.So therefore, I'm not going to do this many hours or hey, it's 5:00, I'm out of here.
I know there's a client coming in bed.Like I'm not doing it.And I think what will happen is this will go on for a period of time because of supply and demand until business owners just go no, no longer.And what will happen is you'll get more leverage around vets that are delivering a better service and you know being more commercially minded.
So this is where we talked about vet liaisons.You know you'll have one vet and two to three vet liaisons or Co consults, whatever you want to call them working.So that the vet almost becomes more a director of traffic as opposed to being the be all and end all and that model.
This is how you can actually like a vet.Basically what you have to do is a vet has to generate more.You can't flog a vet harder because everyone's busted.It's looking at the model and saying how can we generate, how do we do $1,000,000 per vet.And when a business does $1,000,000 per vet, the profitability just spits out of it and it's a different model.
So they're the sort of things I think moving forward that we see, You know, you can keep putting price up and putting price up and that's every coach's number one trick, pull that lever.And I don't disagree with you in some cases, but I think in isolation it's a dangerous thing to do because sooner or later people, and this is what we're starting to see and they're saying no to that dental.
Now I don't really need it.No I won't because now I'm starting to watch my money a bit more.A couple of years ago, there's kind of places awash with money who cared.So I think you're going to start looking at these and going, how do I do that?The other model that I believe is going to become way more important moving forward is pet insurance and Wellness plans.
I haven't talked about pet insurance for the last probably 5-6 years.We used to be one of the biggest sellers of pet insurance per head capita bill per vet in our practice because we identified that we need to charge X and most of our clients were pensioners.So how are we going to make this work for them?
So I think that's the other piece of the puzzle is that pet insurance is going to become more normal and Wellness plans sort of is really a payment plan to help people do the basics.So the other things that I think are going to help businesses get that wage bill back down to your 38%, so they're running profitably again and that's being still paid, which I agree with.
I think that should be paid more, I really do.And I think that's the change in the tweak that we'll see happen.That's interesting.So instead of and I'm trying to think of the the repercussions for this, but instead of saying, well just put up the prices cuz I agree there's a sometimes I think perceived ceiling.
But there's a, there's a point where the clients go, oh, that's too much whether they're angry about it or not, they go, I I can't afford that.So instead of just doing that, you go, well, we've got to reduce our spend, our outgoings, and part of that is reduce our wages, cuz that's our biggest spend.But we can't or don't want to really drop fed wages or staff wages in general.
So we have to find ways to make the stuff that we have more productive, as you say, without flogging them.So it's systems, really better systems to go leverage what I've got without.So instead of saying, well let me get another vet and pay both of them X and then I've suddenly left with 2X wages, go well, let me increase my current vet to 1.3 X but 2X their output with being clever with systems.
The thing is, the mechanics, the financial mechanics don't work.I'll just put another if I'm if I'm running at 5% profit, I'm really busy now, I'll put another vet on.The mechanics just don't work financially, so you have to think about that's the most expensive part of the system, right?
So they're so valuable.They're also the kink in the hose pipe.How do we make them more effective, more efficient, more productive?And it's like things like they shouldn't be having to write their notes.So there's AI coming along that basically it's not even voice to text, it's voice and it picks up the things that are actually relevant and puts it into a formula so that your clinical notes are written.
So you can do it that way or you can have someone in there typing up the notes for you.That certainly shouldn't be talking to people about money.That's sort of someone who's like a vet liaison or a Co console can do that.So when you look at these things, the solutions are really, really obvious and they're actually not that difficult.
The challenge is people getting their head around, OK, I'm prepared to like a new grad, push the boat out, actually get comfortable with trying something new and being uncomfortable.And the businesses we see do it, we just look at their profitability and they're cranking along just fine.
But I do think there's going to be more leverage of bed events is the way to do it because let's face it, we'll have ABCD and everything.And you know, would you rather have an A grade or AD grade player in your team?Well, if you want to play A grade, you're going to need A grade players.
And what it'll allow you to do with a different system, it'll allow you to pay them accordingly without burning them out.So they actually go, hey, they're getting what they need, fulfilment and I'm getting better paid.And those vets that aren't prepared to say they want to play D grade, well, that's OK.But I think we'll see that market shift a bit, I really do, which takes us back to advice for for new grads of vets coming into the profession because I felt that as well.
I actually spoke to an old mentee of mine who was asking me about shifting jobs.And and exactly because of this, I, I said to be proactive and go out and have an offering, make sure you have a good offering for your new boss.
Because I think the days of vets saying I'm a vet, I have a vet degree, you're going to pay me this and I'm going to work this much and I won't do this and I will do this.Those days are going to be over.You could negotiate that your wages are going to be better, which is fantastic, but you're going to have to earn it.
You're going to have to be the vet that they need, not just show up with a vet degree.Let's look at from this angle.Imagine you own a business.Well, you've owned a business.You know, it's like I'm coming along, I'm a vet going to work and I'm going, hey listen, Hubert, what about if I can increase your turnover by XYZ or increase your profitability?
If I do that and I take that initiative, you can have a slice of the pie.Now as a business owner, you've got nothing to lose.You're like, of course this would be brilliant.That's literally what I did.That's how my business read that.I went to the the owner of the business where I was and said I have this plan, but I want a slice of the pie.
And that's suddenly my career changed because that's and I've been saying that for ages.Don't go there hat and hand saying I want more.Here I am, go there and say I want more.Here's how we're going to do it.What do you think?Let's work together on this.Like I had someone from New Zealand called me up a couple of days ago and they said I'm just noticing with the sort of the younger generation they sort of come out and it's it's as though Oh no, no, it's 5:00.
I'm out of here and I know we're all, you know I don't disagree with that.But I think that we've come from like it's like you know your crap salary and your work your guts out and you know which we're just Dumber.We we.So I think they're smart less, but I think I have to look from think as a business owner and think how do I get to get what I want as the employee, How can I give the business what it needs?
And I think if they're thinking in a two way straight, I think that's a really healthy thing.So I just believe that an entitlement sort of sense of view which gets used and thrown around a bit flippantly I think because it's just different, it's different perspectives of what they think the working life should be like, but it's a commercial reality that you have to produce XYZ to be paid X.
That's just the financial mechanics.So I think if they can be thinking about how could I imagine them coming, going, I'm going to be the one that's responsible for developing the whole vet liaison model in the practice as opposed to being the vet going.No one's writing my notes.You know, it's just it's chalk and cheese and you're looking to say, well it's not about what I want, it's about what is the business need and if I will then deliver that my value as an employee goes up significantly.
So I'd be encouraging you to start thinking from a business point of view rather than employee or a technical point of view.It's a big ask though because we we're certainly not trained for that most of us and I will put my hand up as being like that.We like the clinical stuff.I want to be a fantastic clinical vet.
I want to know what I'm doing.I want to do better surgeries.I want to have all the medical knowledge.I mean I sell medical knowledge for a for a living and to some degree I want to go all the business stuff is your problem.There's a reason I don't run a vet practice because it's hard work and it's complicated.I just want to, I want you to pay my wage and I want to do really good clinical work.
And beyond that, it's your problem.I get that, I feel that.But I know it's not practical.You have to.I don't know how do you get better at it?As I'd say I'm a young vet or even an older vet and I go, well yeah, I got to get better at this stuff.How do you do it?This is where I talked about be curious, be open minded, be coachable.
So I'll give you an example.When I open my practice, I went to the most successful practices that weren't in my direct competitive area and I said, can I buy you lunch?Can you tell me what I need to do to run a successful practice?And I just sat down and told me, so if you go and find some successful practices and you know they're doing well, and go and ask the business owner, hey, can you tell me how to give me some points on how you can do things more efficiently, more effectively, better service, all those things?
You'll generally find successful people love to tell someone else how, how, how they can do it.I know.So it's never had to get guests for the podcast, Sam.So I just think I I heard a friend of mine the other day and he said we've got this amazing vet, we're paying her a bucket load, but she came in and said I'm going to generate, I'll generate X amount, this is what I want to be paid.
And he went, well if you generate X amount I'll be happy to pay.And he said I'm paying a well and truly above well and truly top dollar.But he goes it's worth it.Every cent of the day she's loading stuff and booking stuff in and just sending it out the back.So all she's doing is she's being a really good technical vet.
So treat what's in front of you.Gus Braniff from Elfin.That practice once told me that I love that line.Just treat what's in front of you and you're an incredible vet.Most people are going, Oh no, we're too busy.We've got 3 procedures booked in.We couldn't possibly.You know, she's sending stuff out the back like as a vending machine, just loading the system.
So I don't think they need to know how to run a business.But I think if they think in a commercial viewpoint and it's that balance between technical and commercial and I think that's a really as a new grad I think if you develop that you're going to become way more valuable in the marketplace, completely random question and you might not know at all.
I I don't know are you involved purely in Australia and New Zealand do you have a finger of the finger on the pulse elsewhere as well And I'll tell you why I'm asking.I've just come back from spending a bit of time in the US went to to IVEX to the vet conference there and chatted to amazing people and business owners and and also travelled the country a little bit and looked around and of course I'm a vet so I look at I see people with animals.
You know, I, I you can't help but notice it.And I I do feel like it's like some of the stuff we're discussing here like the economic downturn and the decreased spending and things like that doesn't seem that relevant specifically in the USI don't know what's happening in the UKI chatted to business owners who say, Nope, as busy as ever, same problem, same challenges, too many clients, not enough staff, vets and tick do you know what's happening?
If If you don't, then that's fine, But I'm just curious to to know what the patterns are between the different continents for our international listeners, not in in current market as such.No, I couldn't, I couldn't comment on that.What the thing I always observe is, what I do observe like that seems to be a very small industry of the world over because pretty much when there's one problem in a country, it's the same problem in all the countries.
And what I look at, I sort of look at in terms of process and systems going well, if if it works here, does it work there?And so I've tested a few things in different countries and the result's the same.So it just made it be, as you say, a less economic sort of hit because those interest rates and they're not feeling that pinched as much yet, yet.
All right.Is there anything else we're missing out on stuff, Anything that you're excited about at the moment or sharing to your clients or anything else we wanna talk about?Yeah, I think that the main thing is like stop listening to everybody and watching the news because it is not going to help your business.
What the economy does, the economy does and you've got, sorry to say it, not a lot to say on it, your economy you do.So in our practice, I'll give people a little tip in 2008, you know the whole GFC global financial crisis, you're forbidden in our practice to talk around things being bad.
We just went our economy as we do great no matter what and so we weren't going hardcore.Things are bad because even you start talking about that it has that kind of compressive withdrawing sort of white on you and A it's not good with your mindset.B, it certainly will stop you how you recommend things and that.
So we actually figured talking about Toms being tough and as a result we just didn't really notice it.And if you think about it, I heard someone talking about the senior members of society who have, you know, they've kind of tapped out and and they've got, as interest rates go up, if they don't have a mortgage, how stoked do they?
They're making more money.And so there's there's just this balance.It's only effects those people who are paying rent and have a mortgage, which I know is a chunk of people, but I'd go, oh seniors, OK, how can I think differently to go well, they're actually doing better.I'm not saying instead of a seniors discount, you give a seniors 20%.
We can't call it a senior levy, call it the boomer levy boom attack.I just think if you just say how do I thrive in this environment and you know, they always say if you want a better result, ask a better question rather than going, oh, who are you down, are you down?
It'll change.It'll be cyclically.I'd go, how can you run your business leaner, more efficiently, more effectively and protect your team?And there's just ways of doing that.Some of the little things we've talked about, you know, do you have a vet liaison in there talking to every single client around pet insurance or Wellness plans?
You do that for two years and you suddenly got 30% of your clients insured.It's a very, very different ball game.Your whole psychology shifts in your business because then you just charge what you need to charge.You don't do what you need to do.And you're right.That mindset does inevitably flow through subconsciously.
So again me as a as a mortgage payer I wonder, I'm, I'm pretty sure it affects me at work.I I assume that the person I'm speaking to have maybe it increases my empathy towards people's finances and I go, well I'm I'm feeling the pinch I'm sure you are too.
So maybe I should preemptively start thinking about your money situation.So you, I like that to say was well, but you leave it at the door basically that's your economy is you do well no matter what.Whether they say yes or no, you've got no control over that.
But you know, they talk about in a discussion, the most certain person always is the influencer.So the one who's most like we should do this, we need to do this.They're going to influence the other person.You just watch two people talking.Whoever's more certain and confident, they become the influencer.
Be the influencer like it?All right, Tam, let's wrap up if you're ready to wrap up if not.Let me know.But otherwise we I have the new question that I've instituted about six months ago, which I really like, where I have a previous guest ask a question for my current guest and then you have to give me a question for my next guest.
So the question I had from the last interview I did was an interesting one and I don't know the answer for you.The person I interviewed was an Instagram or social media veterinary personality with massive audience and has a lot of impact through it.
Actually really, really positive stuff.And they wanted to know my current guest, do they have a social media account?Yes or no.And then do you think it is important for vets to have one?So I don't.I have AI, have an interesting view on this.
I put off using social media as a primary marketing tool for a long time because I just didn't understand and I had my head shoved in the sand and I wish I had it.So then one day we just went, We just need to be everywhere online.And that means the Facebook thing, the Instagram thing, the whatever thing.
But here's what I refuse to do.I simply refuse to become one of these screen 2 inches from your face 24/7 person checking this, making comments and doing that.It might be a good way to build a brand, but for me, I go, I'm losing all leverage because suddenly I'm thinking, what do I need to come?
I got to get back that person and comment.So my approach was, should you have it?Hell yes.In a business, find someone who can manage that thing well for you.And we have a team that does that.And we do a lot of social media marketing.
In terms of a personal presence, I have zero.I have a Facebook here.I really barely know how to use Facebook shock horror like, well, I use it for our Mastermind group because obviously we're in communication with them all the time.But that's it.I don't ever, ever check one's like you got 67 friend requests.
I'm like, I don't have 67 friends and half of them are people I've never even heard of.I'm like, why would I?Yeah, yes.So I've just, it's just a personal thing that I've watched people build brands and they just spend so much time immersed in their phone and I just, I just chose not to do it.
I think you could obviously you can build an incredible brand and do it that way.It's just not my choice to build.That's not how I'd want to build a brand.I want to build a brand that is a bit more leveraged so I can have a life outside of it and you know, go on holidays and I get it.So do you think that it is potentially valuable as a veterinarian for a vet to have?
Absolutely.Yeah, yeah.What's interesting is I've seen you see individual vets and if they develop a following online they become very valuable because what happens?Well, they go from one job to another and guess what, one comment and vump.So you know, as you know when we're coaching business owners, we're like you don't want to develop the identity that people are coming to see the vet, they're coming to see your business, which is why we like the whole vet liaison model.
They're coming to this whole support team.It's not based around an individual's personality because if that individuals knows what they're doing on social media.And I've watched, I have literally watched 30% of a database leave a practice.When one vet left and they put two comments online, that was it.
Over six months, I lost 30% of their database.So it's it's a real thing.And so I think it depends on what position you're sitting in.Like if I was employed, I would probably be developing a following because it also means I can come to the table and go, hey, I'm bringing, it's like lawyers, I'm bringing business to the table.
This is what it's worth.So it depends on where you're sitting in the, in the whole scheme of things, Facebook itself for your business.I think there's two things is there's one having a Facebook there.Yeah.I think it's important what you put on it is actually important.
So you want to actually have a strategy around that.And that's just where myself personally I'd go.I don't want to spend my life thinking about that because it's a strategy.But other better strategies.I think a lot of people get so stuck on social media and the rest of the businesses have been fired.
So I'm like, well, let's sort out all the other elements because internal marketing, it's 16 times easier to get an current client to come back to you as opposed to a new client.So I just think that the client experience and the social media should really fit in with that.
Developing a certain brand.I'm a big fan of using videos.So you know, if I was doing as a business owner, I'd get used to, you know, twice a month or maybe once a week or something.Shooting a little video, hey guys, just saying, you know, letting you know what's going on.So then they're feeling connected to you as a business owner.
Takes 2 seconds, takes you a little bit to get used to IT.People feel very confronted in putting a video up.Unbelievably powerful though and very simple strategy that how long does it take to shoot a video, 5 minutes or two minutes.It's not this new product.This is what it does.This is who it's for.Give us a shout out if you want one.
It's just creating that community.It's interesting your comments about your attitude towards social media.But going yeah, I don't want to get sucked into that.I forget where I read this.I feel like it's indistractible book indistractible.It's one of those books on productivity, a very popular book where the premise behind the book is eliminate everything, focus on the important thing, and eliminate everything else.
Quite ruthlessly.And they do talk about social media.And the counter argument is I need social media for work, whatever, you know, for me, you and me, I feel like I have to be on there as a marketing strategy or it could be for your personal brand or or other reasons.
There's very valid reasons to be on it, connecting with people that I haven't seen in a while, all those sort of things.But he says be very, very clear on what benefit are you getting versus the cost and the cost being your time and attention and emotional energy.And make sure that that benefit outweighs that cost because the cost is not insignificant, doesn't cost you any dollars.
At least you're paying for social media marketing.But I understand that like there's somebody else who I think it's Seth Godin, always talks about social media, says understand with social media, you are not the customer, you are the product.And considering that, and I often think about it, I often go, should I should I stop doing it because there is a cost to it.
It's a it's a drain on.I think the other the thing that I've always felt with the business is how do you make a business that it's not about you as the it's about the product which is the practice, not you, the business owner identity.So you're kind of drawing a bit of fine line there because when you go and sell a practice, if you're the identity and you're gone and you're very public, you know it's kind of like if Tony Robbins said right, I'm going to sell my business to someone else he can't who's going to buy it?
It's Tony Robbins everything.It's got Tony Robbins and I'm not doing it because it's such a strong brand.So this is I think having clarity around what are you trying to do like in For me my thing is always been how do I get the outcome without doing the work.So I want social media, but I don't know the social media work.
And #2 how do I have it that it's about a system of process.It's not about, hey, he's Sam.And you need to speak to Sam because I I I think it's a yes, I'm a face of the business, but I also think it become a weak.It's a more difficult business to sell.So it's more profitable to own, but it's more difficult to sell.
And of course, you make your big bucks when you sell something.Yeah.All right.Oh, so your question for my next guest, not knowing who my next guest is, have I written it down?What do you consider the most important human trait to ensure success in business?
Good.I can't help but hear these questions and try and think of an answer myself.But that's not the game, so I'll leave it at that.I'll be interested to hear what they say.Yeah, me too.I love these questions.I can't.I can't wait for the next interview.So I get to ask it.Sam.It's kind of like Sam.
That was epic again.That was really good.I love the insights.I love these distance views of the profession that we're so immersed in, people like you who are in the profession, but also has a nice, almost an outsider view that gives different perspectives.So thank you so much for coming on again and sharing it with us and hopefully it's helpful.
To somebody out there.Good on you for doing what you do here, but I think it's fantastic mate.It really is.You hear people, you know, getting inspired from listening to things that you do and I think it's an incredibly valuable tool and because I think sometimes it's pretty lonely out there, particularly in business owner world.So I guess I'm talking more about the sort of business stream of things.
And I think sometimes it's nice for other people to go, oh, it's not just me, it's half a business owner.So good on you, mate.I keep doing it doing an awesome job.Thank you so much.Then before you disappear, I wanted to tell you about our new weekly newsletter.
I speak to so many interesting people and learn so many new things while making the podcast.So I thought I'd create a little summary each week of the stuff that stood out for me.We call it the Event Vault 321 and it consists of firstly 3 Clinical Pearls.These are three things that I've taken away from.
The clinical podcast episodes, my light bulb moments, the penny dropping, any new facts and the stuff that we need to know to make all the other pieces fit.Then two other things.These could be quotes, links, movies, books, a podcast, highlight, anything that I've come across outside of clinical vetting that I think you might find interesting.
And then one thing to think about.I'll share something that I'm pondering, usually based on something that I've read or heard, but sometimes it'll be just my own musings or rants.The goal of this format is that you can spend just two to three minutes on the clinical stuff and move right along if that's all that you're after.But if you're looking for content that is more nourishing than cat videos or doom scrolling, then our two other things should send you in the right direction.
And then something extra for when you feel like a slightly longer read.If you'd like to get these in your inbox each week, then subscribe by following the newsletter link in the show description wherever you're listening to this.It's free, I think it's useful, it's fun, and it's easy to unsubscribe.If it's not for you, OK, We'll see you next time.

Dr Sam Bowden