July 21, 2019

#10: Change, balance, and the doing the things you love. Dr James Greenwood

#10: Change, balance, and the doing the things you love. Dr James Greenwood
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Season 1

James Greenwood is a practicing veterinary surgeon living and working in Bristol in the UK.  Originally from a farming family in Yorkshire, James inherited the family trait and devoted himself to a life spent in the company of animals. Since graduating from Bristol University in 2007, James has worked in mixed, equine and then for the last few years in companion animal practice. 

Throughout his life he has shared his passion for science with his passion for art.  Although taught originally to paint, James’ creativity has developed into a deep love for ceramics.  He was invited to compete on the first series of BBC2’s 'The Great Pottery Throwdown’, which led to further television work, including the hit CBBC children's television series 'The Pets Factor'.  He has also developed his own ceramics business, writes for various platforms and delivers talks on how his passion for science and art have influenced his life.

Gerardo spent the day with James and Oliver, the famous one-eyed Labrador, in their home. We had a great time picking his brain about his early work experiences, about finding himself out of his depth and dealing with imposter syndrome, and how he tries to achieve that ever-elusive balanced life. He tells us how he took stock of his career and how he made veterinary science work for him. We also talk about competence, confidence and courage, his life as a TV vet, and the absolute necessity of having things in your life that you love doing. 

We had a lot of fun recording this episode, and I think you’ll have the same experience listening to James’ with his infectious enthusiasm.

Please enjoy - Dr James Greenwood.

 

 

 

 

 

Good evening.Ladies and gentlemen, this is Gerardo Poli. and this sorry one of the best bits of advice I've ever received was to find good mentors and to learn from them trusted people who have already done what you're trying to do.
Now.I've been fortunate throughout my career to have some fantastic mentors to help guide me, but I realize that they'd be hard to find and also hard to commit the time to 1.This is why we've gathered some of the best Minds from the Brittany world and squeeze them for their wisdom so that you don't have to learn the hard way with the help of our guests.
We flipped.Whitney profession on its back and explore its soft underbelly to find the tips tools and inspiration that you'll need to build the career that you've always wanted.I'm Gerardo Poli.I'm Hubert him strapped and this is the VIP felt good morning everybody and welcome to another episode of the vet felt bad cast today.
We are talking to dr.James Greenwood.James is a practicing.Veterinary surgeon living and working in Bristol originally from a farming family in Yorkshire James inherited the family trait and devoted himself to a life spent in the company of animals since graduating from Bristol University in 2007.
James has worked in mixed equine and then for the last few years in Companion Animal Practice, three are James's life.He has shared his passion for science with his passion for art.Although told originally had paint James is creativity has developed into a deep love.
Ceramics he was invited to compete on the first series of BBC two's the great poetry throw down which led to further television work including the hit CBBC children's television series the pets Factor.He has developed his own ceramics business rights for various platforms and delivers talks on how his passion for science and art have influenced his life.
I spent the day with James and Oliver James is famous one-eyed Labrador in their home in the UK.We had a great time picking his brain about his early work experience about finding himself out of his depth and dealing with imposter syndrome and how he tries to achieve that ever elusive work-life balance.
He tells us how he took stock of his career and how he made veterinary science work for him.We talked about competence confidence and courage his life as a TV bit in the absolute necessity of having things in your life that you love doing.We had a lot of fun recording this episode, and I think you'll have the same experience listening to it.
James is ours was highly contagious, and there's a lot of value in the topics.We discuss please enjoy.Dr. James Greenwood James.Dr. James Greenwood.Welcome to the broadcast lovely wife.
I think pretty much yeah.
I'm just riding riding his coattails to it to succeed.It's like if they have any doubts about his ability as a Veterinary, it's like hey, you know that my dog is Oliver like, oh really?
It's like James II asked you for forest for a story for cool story to to get the audience hooked in and when we were chatting about this part, Just before I was trying to figure out a clever way to to lead it to this question, but I'm just going to come right out and ask you please just tell me about the baby elephant.
I've been dying to hear about your weekend.Just the baby elephant.Yeah, we have to go there doing so know I that was when I was he's qualified probably about four or five years qualified and I was doing I was on court actually equine practice and and I got a it was a weekend that all of the Vets all the senior vets everybody.
I was too.The there's no strangling of the team.But everybody else was away at a friend's wedding and I got the call that we were going to be on all four local Zoo where they just had a baby elephant and had to say it is why I was so excited about it at the same time absolutely petrified and we heard that the baby elephant being born so maybe two or three so I was on call from Friday and I think it probably was born on my black Wednesday.
So we've got you everything fine Dave the elephant's find out.And then we get this call in on Friday night so that the elephant has developed what you call Signs Now.I think we can all agree that the one thing you never want to get a call in for his neurology.
It kind of looks like a adjustment is not doing well that was circling head pressing.How is it was so scary.I know we've got there and I know and there's none of the vet their their Zoo vet was a way to kind of had this baby of his life on my hands and have to say it was one of those really has moments that will now as being like quite pivotable and I'll never forget it and it should maybe have been know something that I look back and think that was the best thing in my career.
But my God that was just it was something else.It was like, you know, he was mad.I kind of can't quite believe I was in that position.But yeah, so talk out Veterinary taking you to places you never thought you'd be that's that's one place.I never thought I'd be I want to know what it was so I let the baby.
There any charity work on that broad?So I got there in this this kind of I mean, obviously I was so nervous.Anyway, just trying to use all of my basic principles trying to go back to thinking you know, what do I do in this situation and The Roots The Zookeeper those is pretty scary German lady who pretty much I kind of was all excited trying to get in there and it's gone.
Look at this elephant.So kind of put my head through the bars and sort of looked at mom and she's a grab me back and said no don't don't do that.That don't do that because if one swing of that trunk in your head will be off and all this other stuff.So I was already sort of so scared get this risk a big decapitated by the elephants.
Yeah.Pretty full-on Don't Go Near don't do that.But the big underneath her legs think I remember when I was when I was at Uni, you know, I was doing prac work at a at a unique farm and we were tasked with finding the baby calves that were They were delivered the night overnight and so down the paddock and was long grass is searching through the long grass with a little baby calves and next thing, you know, you find one and they make this little this kind of like calling sound and I didn't really realize but I've heard it's like thumping them of the Beloved alone and turn around and I'll just expecting it to be just the mother of feels the whole entire her and and these columns on small right there.
Like, you know, 50 kilo or something like that was fun.As I remember, maybe I thought they were heavy and it's a thing didn't want to come with me.So I think pick it up and carry it.And then what I do is I found myself surrounded like by all these cows just staring and kind of like circling in and I was terrified dairy cattle.
This is like the cows like the nicest animals on Earth.It's just going to say hello.
But even that was actually like they're fine, but amazing the same time.So yeah, I'm trying to think if there's a if there's a lesson to be learned from these stories, but I don't know I think of you can think of anything but it is just it's just a cool stuff you to get to go through but sometimes it's just sometimes it's just scary doesn't it was kind of like I kind of remember feeling I don't know what I felt.
I think I sort of felt like I couldn't quite believe that it was happening.But the same time I kind of felt like, you know, I'm sorry my dad but I really don't I don't know what I'm doing here.It was proper imposter syndrome and I just thought I'd I'm you know, I'm I shouldn't be here.
But of course that's Veterinary doubt in your mind isn't it?And then the point is there's nobody else there that could stand up to place instead of step-ups place.So, of course, it's who had to be me but I don't know it was it was it was kind of amazing and scary and sort of just so full on and I think that's something that you know, you kind of you kind of just think what how how they ended up in this situation.
Hmm.But you know, but that was unique I have to say that was pretty unique.That's for sure suppose.I've never thought of that.It's an elephant.Yeah.I'm from from Africa in South Africa and I've never treated an elephant like this he You've got one up on me on the stories thing.
That's for sure is for sure.So I'm so James Evans.There was a coin with how long did you do the the a coin gig for before you before you change deck?So I did my first year.I was next.Well, actually to be honest.I've always sort of done mix.So I did I do that kind of Smalls the first year, but I wasn't quite getting enough at Qin work.
So I changed to a practice that had separate Quine unit and small animal unit.And I did I was doing three days a week at Quine I was doing That coin on call and then I did two days a week in the small.I'm a branch just to keep my sort of handing and actually work really well because I think it kind of gave me the opportunity to do it sounds awful but to do proper at choir practice, you know, and then still do Small Animal Hospital work.
So it's kind of a properly I did probably kind of, you know bit my toe in both fields which was which was quite unique and I'm even then I remember the practicing it's not something that they kind of really did but they kind of made it work.As I kind of went in and said, I'm not really ready to give up either and that was you know, so that was that was amazing.
I could that I could do that.And then I think I think equine medicine probably is still where I'm naturally most interested from a kind of a science point of view, but the practicalities and the kind of maybe the sort of the lifestyle of an equine diet.
I just applied straight.I just realized that I needed to do just fine.Better balance in terms of hours and you know one of its own so I went over to smallest.So for the last what's that Nelson was probably the last I'd say eight years.
No not as much that maybe seven years.I've done small on six and a half smoked 6.75 done small animal work only and not going back to the horses son.There are a lot of a lot of people a lot of students come out of University with their goal their dream.
This is where I want to do all of them start with the dream of becoming an equine vet and they go through uni and they're kind of like, ooh horses hearing levels for me.It's got killed twice by a horse.So in the end, I was like horses around for me.Yeah, but then it was I wanted to be a dairy dairy vet small practitioner.
So small is and area that was aired in the practicalities of just the It just the way that the practice worked and so forth end up working Smalley's but was that something how did you get to that point where you were just like, okay, you know equine about a lot of horses.
I love the science behind it in the medicine behind and so forth.But then so when you came to the realization that actually you were going to transition away from that was that was a difficult thing for you.I like how did you get to that point?Yeah.I think it was it was a difficult thing to decide.
I think I think it's a combination of a few things like I think there.Was my sort of just like my personal life maybe was taking a bit of a battering from the hours that I spent working and obviously an equine.There's no opportunity to sort of find a job with no one call or find out my part-time role.
It was It was kind of it seemed at the time as though it was all or nothing.You either had to sort of commit to Blood Sweat tears.Everything is echoing horse as everything.You know, whereas small is I kind of saw some of my sort of Paste from uni that had qualified and constraints the small animal world and there are now kind of rocking a four-day week and no one call and it sort of seemed they just seen this kind of disparity where I just felt like I was kind of tired of working Christmas has tired of working bank holidays time of just tired of the constant give give give and I think that that's probably it.
I think it was I don't know.I hate to say the word burnout because I think that maybe is a bit extreme, but I think I'd say Of lost a little bit of foresight of why I was doing it and where I was going with it, you know, and I kind of I was doing a lot of vaccinations.I was kind of I was kind of a suppose at the bottom of the ladder in terms of the other vets that there so the work that I was getting to do all the necessary that engaging ways.
Yeah and those know kind of I don't know.I just felt like I was sort of just holding forth with it and and I'd sort of lost a bit of drive to explore them further so Totally the same I'd like I'd from a emergencies perspective.
I plateaued probably around about some to three years ago in terms of clinical knowledge.I still learn quite a lot from when I train or involved in the training of a new interns or developing continuing professional development materials, but I had to I got to the point where were actually the challenge wasn't there so much anymore.
Mmm.And I was faced with a specialty in working in ICU or or trying to find a different pathway will business itself and and have now taken a more role of control building and creating continue to open some programs for our vets.
But then also building up the veterinary team there was there was Alex night the pinnacle pinnacle sorry at the top of the of the of the the organizational structure, but then neither of us had Created sort of succession planning below with the last couple years has been building people up to do better than what we can do how so yeah for me it was it was a I felt like I wasn't challenged the case of them coming through a challenging but not challenging enough and I had to find something else to eat engage in this profession.
Otherwise, I would have considered and I was considering at that stage kind of like a transition out her to go.Yeah.Yeah, I think it comes from its is that thing of you know, everybody needs to feel like they're progressing in something and I think that's something that Veterinary is still lacks its blacks that progression for people who don't know what your perspective is as understood.
There is many different Pathways.There are very many many many different Pathways for veterinarians to go.Maybe it's You're dumb weather but idea what James is saying I I said and if I felt that and made the same sort of decisions as you Girardeau to stage of.
Clinically, let's say within clinical practice which most of us when we think I'm going to study to be a red dead.That's what you have in mind is clinical practice.You want to you want to be a doctor for animals, but you do get to that point of blood Towing and you doing all doing the same shit every day.
We're getting a bit but bored of it except for those extreme stress situations, and and you get absolutely can get to a point of going now.What what next I actually remember at a stage further at five years ago.I could probably dig out my old diary and there's a line that I set scribbling.
This is scribbled line in between my to-do list saying if not this then what the fuck because that's how I was like I don't this is not what I want to do anymore, but I don't know what way to go to but you ride a there's so many parts to diverge from from from that point and even within clinical practice you can have since learned that you can maneuver and wiggle around and and change things to suit your like better, but it's very easy to feel stuck and I think that can happen to a lot of it a lot of AIDS.
We just go out.I just need to be escaped.I think that's the thing I think because for me I had that moment about what about three and a half years ago, maybe four years ago and I had that thing of realizing that I was not happy and that working for me, but I'd also reached a point where I was so fat.
Up feeling fed up.This point was like if you don't like this do something about it.Stop stop whingeing about it stopped hearing like that person.They let's try and acting this way and that's not to say that if you're not happy, that means you've injured obviously it's not but I'd spent with is sort of going to friends houses saying I don't want to think about I don't think that I just thought I was and I am myself spreading this sort of almost negativity about it, which is not it's not helpful for anybody least of all myself and I Ink it comes to that point where you sort of reach you sort of just reached this point where you just think okay.
If I don't want to do this, what else do I want to do?And I did take another break from it and realized how much I actually missed it.And then had this kind of light bulb moment to say.Okay, you know, maybe maybe this is right for you.Maybe just need to look at how your you how you're integrating Veterinary into your life and how make that with your lifestyle choice.
So for me being with that was always about like I just wanted to enjoy going to work.That was what I wanted that I didn't have huge aspirations to kind of I don't know like reach sort of huge clinical levels, or do you kind of do anything sort of heroic all crazy in terms of travel world and solve The World's problems that I just I just wanted to just be a DP that that's that was where I did all experience.
I saw that the guys that were sort of trait, you know that I too love it all of my work experience with their has they seem to have a pretty nice lifestyle.They you know, they were pretty happy and I just thought this is a great job like this is perfect and then you know, but that's 20.
I'm not 20 or years ago and so much has changed that I think we maybe and everybody sort of feels like maybe they generation had it hardest but I do feel like I generation especially UK, you know the sort of the the eight to ten you're qualified.That's now we were the transition that's where it went from the guys that we saw in practice when we were becoming vets at 18 19, you know, though everything.
Independent the money was flowing, you know, the drug monopolies there so that way about on my pharmacy now, it's totally different and that's not no opportunity then of course, there's plenty of opportunity, but it's just very different and I think that has been kind of a something that we've had to navigate but I don't think we necessarily expect them to have another go.
Yeah, totally.Yeah, I can see that the veterinary landscape is a lot different than it was.I say you know, the expectation was oh no go into general practice by into the practice.They in the practice Yeah.And then that was your that was your pathway.
So in terms of there's lots of there's lots of Pathways now and some of the people that we interview are in Academia there in an industry.They were in government and all of them have different Pathways, but do you feel that when you've transitioned Like now it's actually in then this is a good point because you do you feel like as if you achieved your your version of work-life balance because one of the three things that I were raised and that students want these one a positive team requirement to is supportive environment and three years is work-life balance.
That's been my my perspective on that.Is that it's how can you how can you have an expectation or employer of work-life balance?I mean you haven't yet sorted out.So what work-life balance is?Yeah, work-life balance is one of those terms that it kind of made that sentence it would mean what does that even mean very much.
I think if you have to separate work from your life to the point where one their sort of mutual exclusive I don't I just don't get that.I feel I want battery to be a part of my life as well as it being my work, but I think one thing that was quite tricky was to learn to kind of just take That sort of Veterinary badge off you and say, you know, I'm a vet.
Therefore that means I work full-time as a GP back in a practice doing clinical work a hundred percent.I'm like, we just need to learn to forget that and not are not see that as the veterinary career path.You know, I've got to let you say about friends in government.I've got friends that are working for drug companies, but friend that work with the medicines directorate.
You know that all these Avenues are definitely available and it's no shame.People remember when we qualified there was this kind of element of if people left General practices almost as though they're kind of failed all that weren't on the vet and obviously such rubbish absolute rubbish people just need to get over that and see the venue degree as one of the most kind of useful degrees.
You can possibly get you know, and let that take you into directions that you may never thought were directions you wanted to go but don't be afraid of that of clinical practice doesn't float your boat.Vote anymore, or if it never did in the first place then then explore it, you know, make the most of your degree.
Okay.There's a whole lot of like the topic of veterinarians leaving the profession and Rose and was like was brought up again and in Australia and recent times and it's something that's been in for a very long time now, maybe it's maybe maybe you could be an issue with regards to the the absolute focus of of The degree being on just medicine and surgery, you know, like Focus being that's picked you as a general practitioner, which is kind of a good thing to do and I would recommend anyone and everyone to do at least a year in general practice as that's a for whichever way you take your career, but it maybe it's actually it's similar to the discussion about work-life balance.
It's not a negative thing.It's not a positive thing.It's a thing that is different and unique for everyone.Ever that means for them, but maybe the whole transitioning out as you said James is not a bad thing.It's just a matter of career progression and you've explored that you've done that, you know.
So many places we can go with this conversation I've written about they did two notes.I'll go straight with what would you say Gerardo the sometimes changing the situation from from full-time clinical practice.
It doesn't necessarily need to be leaving completely either.Sometimes it's just a little bit less of II do think there's a if there is an exodus, Of its out of clinical practice it I think it is a bit of a shame because I think some of it give up on it too soon or give up on it completely instead of just reshuffling how they do it.
And what else did they do?And they miss out on something that's potentially ready for filling really and really fun can be really really fun.Well, certainly that's what I found personally James.Why did you say you found your your balance?Why did you do?How did your journey from that stalemate to do your happy place look like So I can you can we got all of this morning background.
So if you can so I kind of goes right back.So when I when I qualify well, no when I was getting into veterinary school.It's about school.
I always had an artistic side that I like.I mean for me one of the grades that I used to get into that school was not and it was kind of There's a massive part of my life this kind of creativity and this balance between science and art and and and then I got into vet school, which I always knew I wanted to be a vet as well.
Like it was never really I never really questioned it up for me was just always the calling but then I kind of did the five years of vet school and obviously, you know, we all know how intense the that degree is, you know, you barely have time to sort of think let alone go drinking and have all the fun that you got to have as well.
So we kind of we're kind of a sort of just had threw myself into the veterans group spent all the time, you know on the clinical and science aspect of it and telling you turn your back on the on the artistic side and then that that kind of carried into general practice as well.So then you kind of go into first few jobs with first few years of practice and and again left all of the creativity on the side and I kind of reached a point where it was at the end of my equine and you know, when I when I sort of mentioned that I kind of got to this this sort of Turning Point thinking is this really for Anymore or what am I doing?
And and that's when I took a part-time maternity cover local job with smaller more practice on three and a half days a week and then my other day and a half a week, I spent doing creative stuff.So I signed up to adult education courses.I started a Ceramics course and that's kind of as where it completely my life completely changed.
So I know it sounds ridiculous.But basically I just started doing a day a week on a pottery wheel with Obviously that's not really fair everybody.But that's that was for me.Was this kind of Turning Point and that grew and it grew and grew and grew so they said did an extra days was doing three days betting today's Ceramics and then as that then progressed.
It just so happened that there is kind of this wave of interest in in Ceramics generally in the UK and we have a really popular.Do you have a Bake-Off in Australia we do?Yeah.So there's a really popular showing here on Because of the Great British Bake Off which is basically baked eggs, and it's just it's the most watched show.
Anyway, they had a sister show called rate Pottery thread down, which is a grandma said we coming on on the BBC and I applied to go on it and I got on it and then literally that has just created this complete transition, but I won't bother going to all the rest of it.
But essentially that for me was the was the turning point because going from sort of being a vet to not being happy.It's opening my own doors to think what's missing was my creativity and just completely organically that has taken my life in a completely different direction, but I'm still vetting you know, and it's it's just being open to those changes and it's like you say just having that resourceful.
It was me stopping and saying what's working.What's not working?What wasn't working is I didn't have creativity in my life.So I brought that in and for me, that's what this whole work-life balance thing is it's about it's about this.Nobody can tell you what work-life balance is.You have to sort of look and say what what do you want more of and bring that in don't do don't necessarily in a sense to less or something.
But if you can bring more of something in then do it in a just bring all in things.I was just going to say like there is various levels of transitioning their from one career or one Pathway to the next and then opportunities opening and like you talked before about impostor syndrome in like a feeling essentially.
It's the feeling of feeling like a you're a fraud in a situation that you're in you would did you experience that and in when you got accepted on to the show and then you would you tackle and then and then and then and then when you when you go and then what you and Alicia So just because you see my Pops are you pretty good game showed me this.
This is mugging just fun yesterday, and the the handle is sort of coming out of the perpendicular nice 9 degrees.It's like a it's a little bit warm, but 60-degree angle.I don't know.It's erratic, and I have to be broken you we left him to bed mad.
Go for me, please, please, please please.Yes.That's what I was like, I kind of got the first challenge through until this just this is just no way that's make five holes that site inside each other and then Second Challenge was to make us think that it's something that I can't do that.
I don't know.All the things I'm happy to do, but I just don't want to be the mug flow.So who say yeah, but I went on it and then all the other Potter's that were there are sort of got so she convinced me that it was Andrews and that's a pot is nothing to worry about and you know, and I got there they were all Pottery teachers.
They were Heavens 30 years.
And it's perfect.I was ready to go before, you know, he's great.She loved you.Maybe there was some kind of uniqueness around your pottery that you know it consuming you look back through with the gouge marks or like - that's monkey.And if you put her the same if you spin it I'm just throw it doesn't spin ride probably tilt the the spinning wheel off, but you know what?
It's just James this time.That's my style.What's your name?And I bet it's like a Picasso.That's what incredible story.It's such a beautiful your story of finding something that you love and doing it and then it turned out like a like a fairy tale story almost said, I think it's think it's tempting for other people to listen to it and go.
Yeah, but that's that was James.He was lucky he got lucky but it's time and time again.It doesn't always need to end in in as a secondary career or Secondary income or something like that, but every well-balanced every well-balanced happy professional.
I know whether it's a fatal or something else has something else like that that keeps him saying if nothing else and very often will lead to to something else such as a new scenario secondary income that allows you to cut back in your clinical hours.
So now I think it's a fantastic story.I love it.Now your host of the children show of any children show.Yeah.Yes, sir.That's so since he say that you exact I do get that sometimes because now so that has that led on to to doing a children's show which is goes out on on our screens which is kind of fun the wall style kind of vetting.
It's great actually. constipated turns out of a snake and you and you Why do you get back you kind of get this whole kind of you know eyes it's you know, yeah, but he's you know, he's been lucky and like that us but and when I because I've spoken about it a few times at various conferences things, but the point I always try and hark back to is that yeah.
That's why I'm now but I absolutely swear to you it all started by me getting on that pottery wheel and doing something I loved and the rest of it has genuinely been totally organic and obviously you It's now slightly working towards it and I you know kind of actively looking for new work and stuff.
But essentially all started with me just giving my time giving myself some time to do something else that I loved rather than being completely absorbed into Veterinary.And I think that's the thing that the journey hasn't been planned to Journey has been really quite sort of free-flowing and that's that's what I kind of try and explain to people is that you know, it's going Back to that hope that moment where you just let other stuff into life even just my story very very similar thing with their lack of creativity and feeling it's all science science and not creativity and I've always had a thing for for literature and writing and stuff.
So I decided now, I want to stand riding writing something didn't know what a very long story short major out of Congress told him that told him about this idea about writing about Whitney soft skills.Now we doing a podcast.
I'm getting to chat to Fantastic people meet amazing people and outside of my clinical work gets it really keeps me pumped and actually has a positive feedback loop into my clinical work because I'm I'm learning about all these new things and makes me much more enthused when I go back to work.
So now I did always I would have said always pays off maybe not always but I'm sure I'm sure it does.Sorry Gerardo interrupted you might owe those going to agree that though.My career itself is transition so many Rooms and not by sometimes not by actually been a conscious decision that actually open to Opportunities and willing to try something different.
So as a smaller practitioner a transition to emergency and that was actually purely a financial reasons because I couldn't afford my house and then I was in an emergency and then I do the next step was to in order to feel less of the Imposter syndrome was to get better in terms of what I knew and how To apply it so I did further study in emergency.
Then from there.I found myself in a senior clinician kind of roll and then from there into a role which was developing training programs from there into a roll of of being a Veterinary director and they're in a role of of project managing the hospital a new multidisciplinary Specialist Hospital and then from there helping restructure our continued professional development.
So like every two years like I have a path like I have things I want to do.My wife and I had and I have goals and financial goals and things like that, but I'm completely open to where I'm going to be and how it's going to look and also that that I just feel that every couple years opportunities will come through that.
I don't feel those stuck anymore.I don't feel this is the only thing for me and so what if I do feel a bit sort of constrained or a bit sort of like a like a zit my path 'The way might stagnate I'm totally comfortable now that actually I'm resourceful enough in myself that I can if somebody comes over there if an opportunity opens, then I had I can jump on that.
Do you think there's something you have the found hard to develop that kind of Elf?I don't know what the word is it self-assurance all about and like, you know not I said waiting for somebody to give it to you you do you actively go out and get it, you know you feel compelled to stay.
In one job do you feel because I think that's what that's something that you know, I know a lot of my generation struggle with the whole concept of swapping practices and keep moving and darting around, you know, it's kind of feels counterintuitive to sort of have a CV that's full of lots of movement.
But actually it seems to me that a lot of the vets that are really happy or done really well in Veterinary have done exactly that they never really kind of got bogged down into one place.That kind of kept moving.That's a good thing or well I'm being in my Position now and in the same company which would down on Mirchi service and I started as a veterinarian and then I built up into senior roles and to director and now iPod own the company.
So but having said that my career has shifted and changed and what I what I think I feel confident stepping into the future because I feel comfortable that I can be resourceful when I need to be mmm.
So if a situation Rises with where problem needs to be solved.I feel comfortable that I've got what I need the I had the skill said the knowledge to know how or even just the fact that when I look at a challenge.It's more of a challenge as opposed to like a roadblock, you know the so how can I make this work?
What are the things that matter which actually are useful and how it can if I step out the other side of this adversity mi-mi-mi-mi-mi probably better faster stronger more resourceful more capable of something so though, I think There are some challenges that I don't really like not and and I'm just trying to think of what they may be as maybe it's taking on Exotics.
But but in terms of other challenges in my life in terms of career progression and into things like social media and TV and things like that, that's actually something that really daunting.I'm sure you come across as well, but it's also an incredible opportunity and also an exciting time.
Shirley mm-hmm.I think it won't fact that.I feel comfortable that it went situation arises - come to more than I can deal with it.Yeah, and I don't know what that's my bees are.How do I know I can deal with it.But the fact is I know you mean that there is I think there's a think some of that comes from like knows we're talking about this sort of drop out to five to six years into practice.
But for me that that has kind of got that does resonate with me as well.You know, I kind of feel like I've got to point now, you know clinical work.I still refer a lot of stuff.I'm still very much GP level work but my communication skills with clients, you know, and and just the general day-to-day enjoyment of the job has kind of just skyrocketed because I think we kind of get to the point where you do slightly just accenting the better bit and you kind of get to the point where he can stick with it, you know after that sort of thing being a practice which I kind of get to the point ones that like this, you know, there's not much that would come.
The door that I wouldn't at least know how to sort my not necessarily needing all of the clinical working on it, but I definitely don't have to get that that you know dog from a to where it needs to be.Yeah, you know, whereas six years ago being on call so nervous because I'm like what if I can't do that right now because now I think with this news, you know, there's nothing that somebody could call me up and I wouldn't know how to at least sort of sort.
It it is it is a factor of Knowing what you know and knowing what you don't know right and then also acknowledging that there are things that you don't know that you don't even know that it exists.So like the big blind spot, but been okay that if there's something that you don't know, you know where to go where to go who to ask what resources are available for for me.
Now.I know there's a credible now things I don't wear them when something comes through I refer to my own book.Sometimes I go read a textbook.I'll look on the internet.Resources so I feel completely comfortable not knowing stuff.Yeah.
Well now I've got my mini vac guys exactly.What do you think that process of relaxing into the job and II agree with you completely for me there was definitely that kind of several years of not loving the job and then suddenly going hey, actually, it's not so bad.
I enjoyed this met with several factors and That but it's definitely that that similar feeling of relaxing into the job.Is there a is there something that you think the younger vets can can do to speed that process up or is it just a question of of just sticking with it for a little bit longer till you till you hit your hit your stride with it or ask in a different way if if you look at what you know, and how you approach things.
Now if you had to go back and do it all again, would you do anything differently to get you there faster or is it just stick it?That's a good question.I think I think he you know, there's the confidence thing isn't there.
There's like, you know, there's the the age of or thing of being confident but not being overconfident keeping your ego and being confident to step into unfamiliar territory, which I don't know how you put that into words.There's just that you know, that kind of that you do need to go beyond yourself a little bit to get yourself to that point.
I think for me more importantly I was just you know, the main reason we all got into batteries because because we just obviously adore animals and for me I can just I just remember sort of not the animals were so secondary to everything that we were trying to do everything.
I was learning everything for University.It was all science science science, and I kind of lost that sort of enjoyment with just spending time with a dog or just enjoying being with a cat which sounds so gosh.She doesn't it.I know that sounds ridiculous, but Like I graduated it took me four years before I got Oliver before we got a dog in our life and I swear it changed my perception of being a vet having my own pet and being able to sort of kind of communicate with clients on a really personal level of saying oh, you know well with my dog we did this this this I'm not saying every girl get dog, but I'm saying don't forget how much you love animals and just spend a bit of time each day.
Just thinking how great is that?We get to spend our working day with pets and animals how many people are sitting in dead-end jobs would literally cut the right arm off just to go and have to die or get day, you know, and there's that's us it's you know, it's not to be sort of overlooked.
I don't think the we also downplayed the impact that we have every day and I can all come in with the corneal ulcer.I'm glad he treated so many of those that for that dog.You've you've sorted its problem alleviated to pain and suffering and instituted the management which Will help the actual I get better like incredibly painful conditions, but so small and easily like it's almost we consider our we don't really consider.
So I the impact of our actions and if we think back to the impact our actions even small ones, but those particular patients that could be just the thing that just, you know, Tony's makes a big difference difference for love it for sure.I like what you said James about extending yourself a little bit.
I think that that can Speed things up.I said he has at as a young evaded but still to this day, but it was quite as always quite weary of overstepping my skill levels or putting myself at risk of failing, you know, I'd rather call the senior guy in because maybe I can't do it and and and and then but learning yeah, you know, the faster you do that those things that you don't want to do because you scared you're going to stuff it up.
They probably think you should just jump in and do because That's the fastest way to gain that confidence and to get to the point of relaxing into the job.So I like that extend yourself and get your attitude.Right really one pencils.Maybe I think another thing is you know is I was just I was thinking then how to practically put on two terms if I was re if I was listening to this as a as a new qualified that you know is all good and well as saying I'll try these things go forward, but actually it is, you know, as we both just said that that's it is quite difficult to do that, especially with learns now, so there's this Kind of thing of you know, especially for insured pets that the clients sort of there's no reason not to go for gold standard.
So we end up sort of saying oh, well, I'm I don't have that certificate to do that surgery or what have you we can refer it.So shall refer it or yeah.Well, we better refer it then you know, where as you know, again sort of 15-20 years ago and that might not be the case that the GPU vets were turning the hands of what more stuff and I can imagine back then you probably did progress quickly because yes, do you know The total ear canal no anal going to move with you and just do it and it's a nice, you know, that's that's I think it's I think it's both great for medicine and for Science and for the animals that we've reached that point, but I think it's also little bit of a shame that the general practicing vets have almost kind of had that taken away from a little bit but I but I wouldn't want to go back that's the thing, you know, but there are ways of getting there so finding a mentor finding some reason the practice that does do those surgeries, you know.
Zpd that you could go on to learn that technique and Pitch it to your boss and say, you know, I'm really Keen to learn how to do XY and z and you know get those things on your belt and keep moving with it as what I would say.I'd say there's mentorship is incredibly important because having seen a lot of interns come through our intern program or we do provide a support and mentorship and they are willing to make that step and I'm for me the word which kind of as sums things up with you which people need to have or need to do but they need to feel the courageous need a filbert courageous to take that step.
Because you can't you can't decide to be confident.That's the first I've been confident, right, but then you're going to feel like a fraud if you don't back that up competence.And anyway, you're going to competent is to act and do something which then builds confidence but then you need to have something which helps you jump into taking our first action and I think that's a bit of Courage.
But then if you have if you're you know, there's a fine balance there, but if you have if you take if you take the leap and have a bit of faith and be crazy.Has it all it always helps to have the cushion of a mentor or a supporting structure box around you that when things don't go right then you always got somewhere or someone to go talk to call on.
Hmm.Yeah, and I think I think about was work as well is an interesting thing to look up, you know, nowadays students.Will you grab that seem to be really fun?Like, I don't do any uncle Have strength to a job.
That's here's me saying, you know the on-call really could have joined me to Despair and as a new grad but looking back legs on that.There is also that is an incredible opportunity to be in those situations where you do have to be courageous.You know, when you get the emergency call coming in, you know, if you're there on your own you've got to act on it and it's you know, there's those is hard, but that could be a learning curve that that sets you up for.
You know quite being able to handle stuff in the future.I struggle with that.Same conundrum is same as you I despise that I didn't go for close on 10 years and and literally nearly drove me to to leave the industry.But I did also learn a lot while doing that including some resilience and some grit to go.
You know it this is just stuff day's going pretty rare for this case getting pretty rough, but I I've been through worse so I could I can cope with this.Nothing stopping the spiral stopping the Mind from doing what it does, right which is to protect us to keep us safe to keep us out of stressful situations, right?
That's why it tells you that's what your mind tells you in its own ways that he look you you feel uncertain you feel stressed so you can feel anxiety and feel the actual physical - manifestations of that.It's it's mean conscious of the impact of of what your brain is telling you and actually That's probably the one of the key steps in into going from not confident.
Something into confidence is by actually stopping your brain from actually just starting and stopping you from being courageous.Yeah focused fuzzing.I can't do it.It's all going wrong.Will it hasn't even happened.Yes started.How can you how can you spend all that energy worrying?What might happen when you kind of just need to go for him there.
When when I first started an emergency women we had like watching.Program but we didn't necessarily have like a with the intern program and and some of that vets use the vomit on the way to work because of the the would be the busiest valya and like nothing new.
There was no booked appointments.It was literally whatever walked through the door and you didn't know how busy was going to be an idea while it was come to the door and a lot of that degree of uncertainty.Was was what caused quite a lot of stress and then it's and then that stress was then manifested manifested in physical actual illnesses and then some bets leaving and stuff.
But there's a thing that I like and what I like about the job now is actually uncertainty of it.The uncertainty of the emergency is is actually what is probably the most exciting thing about it because there's no set consult.
There's I don't know what's going to alter the Or it could be any GI or so itchy skin or it could be an I also could be GDB and that's kind of the challenge.Are they here?Hmm, there's if that's a personality thing that because I can identify with it the dramedy feeling I do emergency bit of it for about 17 years now and emergency for just over 5, and I said, I'm still nervous when I drive down every single shift I've got I've got butterflies because of that uncertainty and You said you sound like you thrive on it.
I get that impression I can cut I can trick myself to it to not getting freaked out.And as you say James catastrophizing it I have to what I do.I tell myself.All right, I'm feeling these physical manifestations, but it's I'm not going to call it stress or anxiety.
I'm going to I'm going to recognize it as my body getting ready for action.Yeah, so my heart's racing.So that's what I can be better at my job, and I've got to be awake and I've got to you know, I've got to be on it and when you Aim, it like that.I it becomes less of a less of a horrible sensation, but I still I still have a limit I can only take so much of it.
I can't do save a nights in a row like I used to I I've just learned that my limit is two three shifts and then I've got to have a decent break.I love it.So this David Lee I think it's important that people recognize what works for your friend is a vet.
Who's totally pumped in his a young Gerardo Polly and what works for you?It's not it's not.Always the same and again it's and it's not a shameful thing to go.Well, you know, I I just can't cope with it.I have my limit what your limit is is not is not as appropriate for me.
And I thought if I try to work the way you do I would last year and then I'd be out for good.So that means said that that's something I've had to learn about my sweet.My grease chips is my Max as well.We used to do portion over once we had a month.
This is several years back when we had a a couple bet sleeve and we did five ships a week.We did that for about a month and a half and that would that was right in the middle of like October nerve and which is really busy time of year and that almost destroyed before shifts in a week would I'd probably if I do that continuously would cause me a mental breakdown and now that I've transitioned and doing less shifts and more business stuff to shifts is enough after two shifts my brother what exactly mmm Yeah.
All righty.Where do we go from here?Let's take a bit of a lift in your uh, I'm curious this poop.Isn't it?Curious that the whole TV gig?I'd love to know more about that.Is it fun?What's it?Like is it when people always associate television work with Glamour and what's the reality of it?
Like is it ya tell us, you know, Basically, we film over kind of ten weeks and they come into the practice and they just they just sort of film the stories as they unfold re we kind of because it's saying that it's kind of aimed at some early teens.
So it's not it's not, you know run with Phil.Maybe we're not some dumbing it down necessarily but we also avoid some of the really sort of heart-wrenching stories.And then we do quite a lot of promo around it.So you some live TV, which is quite scary.
That's quite scary.Okay, so live TV is pretty full on but it was great fun, you know and it is brilliant.I love it.It's kind of its just come at the right time for me, you know in terms of career progression as was kind of it's great.
I don't really say about it is it's so is that do they come in on your regular work days and just film or do you have said days at you?That's a separate a deal regular roads are where you go in and you doing filming?So this this schedule we doing on my normal days which is a bit easier last time.
I was coming an extra couple days which was which was pretty full-on trying to do that more working, you know schedule but no so they come in they come in for two full days per week.Yeah, okay, and then just it's yeah, it's yeah, it was it was quite weird to start with like but you sort of learn because the thing is you have to sign away your editorial rights to it.
So in theory once you've kind of agreed to the cameras coming into the practice Derek, they can just capture whatever they want.And you know, they can it's amazing how editing affects how a story unfolds, you know, so you think there's only one way for a clinical stories.
All my God, can you add it back later, you know the occasional the occasional I glanced your nurse that sort of says.Oh my God.I don't know what I'm doing anymore that put in at just the right time can make you look like the most uncomfortable in the world.
So that's where you kind of we actually company behind it are fantastic.They again, it's nice because it's kids so there's they're not looking to trip Hazard here, you know.You any any sort of great acts of failures or anything.
They it's quite nice because they're almost in a weird way.They're almost kind of putting us on a bit of a pedestal and saying look how cool that science stuff.So yeah, so that's great.So I sort of feel really trustworthy in them as well and its really nice relationship.And and do you find it?
Because you know about public face are you getting clients coming in who wants to see who wants to see?Dr. James because you know being a famous feet.How does it affect your your date?You can be aware that may be but it's more that it's funny though because it's more because it's the kids.
So none we what happens is I kind of be Consulting and then in reception and I'll be a way to move in mom or dad and a couple of the kids are stuff and I kind of go out and I spot them but he's kind of spotted.I'm Consulting and you can see them getting kind of excited no Whispers men and then they kind of get the phone out and try and snap it a sniff. and it's dead bear sign like glassy I look and it's way you clap your hands and does a wizard because it's kind of like Today and then I could imagine like the the cameras in there and the owns like the parents would like I know we didn't have any of that stuff and some kind of like late teens Amy background look a bit silly, but it's like squeeze themselves.
And just look at you and the parents are ghosts here.
You guys I think I know it's wrong.It's like it was there was one situation where they the family had like a rental house like a second house in the property and the the mother called up the husband who was at home and the daughter was and the children the in the console room with us and the the mother runs the rings of the husband.
He goes that thinks the dogs don't I was like, well, I it's a ability and you don't you know clearly right?And then and then the husband's on speakerphone.It's like we don't have any of that stuff in our house.Can't imagine where I get all my God, it's those guys who are living in the house who just moved in.
I'm gonna go down at right now kick him out.That was just like what you do.
I had a we're filming our cities and I had a really lovely family and they brought the total sleep and they're kind of teachers program at eight or nine their daughter and her elder daughter as well.Anyway, we're trying way in this this kid was Bridge your so engaging camera and she's been really funny with all the little quips and and and Charlie who's filming with us.
She said, oh I tell you what, let's just ask James of questions.Just ask him to like, you know, why did talk to I just hope I've been a and I just I just had one of these moments where my mind went blank rows are I'm sure he's just like any Jews are too cold.And obviously it's kids.You've got to keep it real simple anyway, but I said I'll just just just give me five.
Let me just let me just let me just make sure that I get that the facts were on this so go straight into Google why there's a wider I could not find the answer is so bad about five minutes trying to find it find it.Anyway Bentley on this blogging site found like Nice little sentence.
So as I okay, right?Yeah, I'll ask me again ask me again.So they reset shooting.So I why James why don't why did towards was happening?And I gave this great yellow is because another their energy reserves.All right.Anyway, the little girl and just stops and stares at me right on camera and goes did you just Google that?
No, I think we covered a lot of awesome stuff.Is there anything actually that you would like like a topic that you would like to bring up?Gosh, I mean I think I think it's you know, there's the whole I mean the big thing at the moment especially over here is the whole kind of mental health issues in that regard.
I think we've kind of touched on that as much as you can in the in the remit of talk in general because I think my take on all of that.Is so individual and it's just so important to talk and if you and if you are struggling with it, and you know a know that that you're not alone people do start with it, but you do just stop and take stock and talk to somebody about it because you know 10 years and I've already lost friends to the you know to the Perfection which just is so heartbreaking but it doesn't have to you know, and I think you know for me to take home thing is just it's just making Veterinary work for you rather than you just working as a vet like mate.
They look at in try and find a way to incorporate it into your life rather than letting it be your life is what I would sort of say is my kind of ten years of wrinkles and stress and but I really don't think you missed it too much.
Did you miss what made you come come?Is it what is it that draws you back?I missed again.This sounds really it just does sound a bit romantic, but I'm reading this the animals.I realized that like I just realized how much I missed.
Well actually under people.So basically what happened was I took three months off to just really focus on my Ceramics and build up a ceramic brand and all this other stuff and it would be when we well I was selling dog balls a personalized and the orders which is flooding in and it was amazing but spending every day on my own in my Pottery Studio.
Just making you know these things to order and I just suddenly realized how if you know you get so used to spending time in a team and how much the team needs you like, you know just having company of people and the company of animals and it was just that I just I just needed company.
That's why I realized I needed P.I'm have learned that I'm sort of person that likes to have people around me which I never thought I was I thought I was quite as you know, quite like my own space.I quite like being on my own but apparently not got it.Well, you don't not all the think the keys you need both.Obviously, I think that is very it's very often the problem with red because I listening to you.
I think if you if you did five days a week of just clinical Vapor work and you don't have your day or two by yourself at the Pottery Studio that's going to lead to burnout but then on the flip side if you just set like a crazy person in his factory stereo you yeah, you things would go wrong.
So I think again that comes back to finding your balance and Finding finding the right mix of work versus well work and different work or work versus versus downtown downtime.Let's talk about books James if you got any and they don't need to be clinical books or vet related books.
We got any standout books if I'm going on to my audible account tomorrow, what should I buy?Oh my God, what did I listen to you?Recently your order but I an audiobook man or a or a or a I'm moving - yeah, but that's not disappoint.
My last one.I read I was a Dan Brown latest Dan Brown one was called but it was it was okay.There's a lot of there's a lot of repetition in it audiobooks.Look you can actually say oh, no, I don't like it.
Give me my money back and I'll give it back. fantastic thing about young is a one of the sort of rubber for the eggs fact seems like years and years and you've done a podcast called Homo sapiens, and it's And of their kind of look at the LGBT sort of community and it's a really really fascinating listen not you know for everybody it's not it's not aimed at any particular audience.
It's just that there's sort of LGBT kind of Representatives and it makes for some really interesting so that would that's what I would say people should understand him right?Awesome.Okay.
Are we ready for the last question?I can you really good at articulating this form and you go for it.Okay.Well then we'll wrap it up with that with that with the one question James you have an opportunity to get a message out to all of the world's new and recent Veterinary graduates as you can out.
You've got a couple of minutes to give them one one message.What would you say to them?What would I say to them?I would say try and stick with it because it gets better.It's like wine it's better.They relax into it try and see the joy in it.
And I think it's like we said just make Veterinary work for you rather than you spending the rest of your life.Just working as a vet.It's a brilliant profession.It can be contorted into so many different ones that once you find your and Once you find your place within the profession and within the industry, then I promise you there will be nothing else that you'd rather be doing.
They go awesome.That's a great danger a gentleman.Thanks for your time.Good good.It's been great stuff there.Yeah, welcome back and welcome.
Welcome to our Smash It section.I trust you enjoyed listening to James a story James has built a wonderfully varied career, but it didn't just happen by accident when James felt stuck and frustrated with his career path.He took the time to do some serious self-examination and found find out what was missing from his life and how it can improve on the situation in this conversation James mentioned some of the questions that it asked himself when he was going through that process of reflection, and I think it's worth looking at these again.
Posing them to yourself every now and again James asked himself what is missing from my life?What do I want more of?What did I used to love that?I no longer do what is stopping me from doing these things?
What are my excuses what would my life look like if I had the right work-life balance for me?Is there a pathway that I can take to get me close to that life?What steps can I take now for James the missing ingredient was at what is yours Gerardo?
Have you got any input on this?No Okay, so The missing ingredient I think regarding identifying the missing ingredient in your life.
One of the most powerful tools that we use is called The Wheel of Life and this is where you draw a circle and you divide it into as many sections as you need which each section representing the important areas in your life for some people that's four segments.
So for four sections in the wheel some it's 8:00.Generally it's around about eight and they can be Health work.Money relationships or by personal relationships friends family travel diet or something like that career.
If I didn't mention was at work and Correa studied knowledge.So you think of the important areas in your life and then allocate a section in that wheel to each of those areas then what you do is you score yourself from a scale of 1 to 10 on how happy you feel Of fulfilled you feel in that area of your life.
So essentially the center of the wheel is zero and the outer aspects of the wheel is 10 so you color in that section from a scale of 1 to 10.And essentially what you will find is in a quite nicely diagrammed way and very clear way what areas in your life.
You don't feel that fulfilled in and essentially what happens is when you going through your daily day life. few realize some reason you just feel unsettled uncertain uncomfortable uneasy or unhappy and when you break it down into segments you will soon see which of the ones you need to work on so you can we went through this in the Unleashed online conference and we had numerous people share their their Wheel of Life then quite often Health came up or relationships come up or or career comes up, so and what if its individual For the wheel is in is varied between different individuals.
And essentially what you'll find is when you roll that wheel.Okay, if you put that wheel on a bicycle and you rolled that wheel quite often the wheel would give us a pretty bumpy ride.So it's either fits nicely fulfilled and you have a large wheel and be nice smooth ride.
You can have a wheel of life which is very small and you've scored yourself low and all of them and look like as if it'd be nice.Nice smooth ride but a very slow ride, but generally what happens is you'll have areas.We'd squeeze up Niners 1910s and areas we scores are for and Vibes.
And then what you do is you work on that piece of that one piece of the pie.I want peace of the wheel and you ask yourself the questions.What would be a successful outcome in in that particular area because you get any Clarity around what you can work on and what you want to achieve and then you can break that down to what are you five major moves and then your actual plans.
So I'll be able to is Is he's in the show notes.We will put a wheel of Life worksheet that you can then you can do and download and you can have access to the unless online conference and you can see how we work through that and how we try to break that down.
Fantastic Dorado get people still get tickets to have access to the actual unleash conference.So the Unleashed conference you can't get tickets to but you can buy access to the videos.It's Almost 20 hours of streamed video covering all aspects of more so performance and productivity and health and things so we covered the first day he would you talked about the top 10 tips from the vet Vault then we went through rolled into Clarity and then up the clarity.
We rolled into social Styles and how to have effective working relationships with people through understanding their particular personality types.Then the afternoon we rolled through fear and imposter syndrome and resilience.
And then also how to create your message share your impact and have influence and then day two we talked on confidence and then we talked about self-awareness and and then abundance mindset in the impact that has on how you communicate money and how you value money and then we rolled into habits and also then communicating with clients and how to deliver when we in interactions and then we finish it off with essentially what I believe whether the important things.
Which result in actions in reality and that is ability to focus which is components of attention prioritization and energy and then motivation three ways to maintain motivation.And the last thing we talked about the journey and honoring the struggle so as action-packed couple days and you can have access to that and the first thing we start because we love life so good links in the show notes.
If I if I put the link to the Unleashed conference website on there.Can they get access through that?We'll put the link which is the appropriate link.Okay, that's good.I'll do that then and that's it for today.If you found value in today's episode, please go and tell at least three of your friends about it and give us that five star review on iTunes.
We love your feedback and suggestions.It is up on Instagram or send us an email just click the link on the website to find ways to connect with that now go smash it.

Dr James Greenwood